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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • pocono35pocono35 Member Posts: 89
    Comparing a loaded Accord, Camry or Passat to a loaded Sonata is not actually fair considering price. The Azera is a more suitable comparison, and even in that vein, you can have a loaded Azera Limited, which is larger, suitably equipped and quite distinctive for way under $30k. The only disadvantage in buying a Hyundai today is their lack of a nav system, which means nothing to me, and the pretisge, perception and resale. Dollar for dollar, a Hyundai Sonata or Azera is a solid purchse. My inspection of an Azera yesterday at a BJ's was quite revealing. I had no idea what a 'step up' this was for Hyundai.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I dont think the Lexus derived Optitron instrumentation looks at all like an alarm clock, and thats the first comparison I've ever heard stating that. The digits and pointers are very sharp and crisp. The Accord benefits from similarly legible displays from the same type of technology.

    OTOH, the stereo display in the 02-06 Camry, that I could see being reminiscent of an alarm clock, but that could go for most stereo displays (definitely inclusive of the Sonata's 80s Apple computer looking display).

    Backy-
    A) I doubt the Sonata's depreciation rate is going to improve significantly based on the fact that, as you state, there are significant incentives available on this redesigned, less than year on the market product, and the fact that Hyundai is doing a great job of selling to fleets. The Hertz at the Milwaukee airport alone has about 6 that I counted (just in the garage).

    B)True. But its no fun to keep a car for 10 years!

    C)Thats fair. Use Edmunds.com TCO and see which comes out as less expensive- A 2006 Sonata LX V6 with Premium Pkg or the 2006 Camry XLE + VSC and Side Airbags.

    ~alpha
  • chrisfordchrisford Member Posts: 55
    I felt the same way about the non-styling of the Sonata. Looks like an Altima from the mid 90s. Very plain.

    You have got to be kidding. Please tell me where is the flair located on the 06 Accord? It's as bland as vanilla pudding Face it people, the Accord is is just as badly styled as the Camry. Saw two parked on my block, they seem to blend in well with all the other daily beaters out there. Nothing special about them. You want style? then look at Fusion or Madza6.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I cant figure out how to do options with the TCO tool, but the $23.5K Sonata LX V6 has a TCO of 57 cents/mile over 5 years at 15,000 miles per, while the $26,400 Camry XLE V6 has TCO of 54 cents/mile over 5 years at 15,000 miles per.

    ~alpha
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Member Posts: 172
    The Accord does suffer from a dated look. So does the Sonata. Talk about a dated look - compare the Fusion to a 96/97 Accord and discover the pilferage.

    Hyundai seems intent on buying market share in this segment. If the Sonata was priced the same as a CamCord why would you buy one? Not exactly a sterling reputation out there in the public's eye for Hyundai compared to Camry's reliability and Accord's aircraft cockpit-like precision.

    Change the Hyundai name.... to like....uh....
  • pocono35pocono35 Member Posts: 89
    The mid-size segment is the most important (sedan) segment for manufacturers. Listen, as much as we are subjective about the exterior and interiors of these manufacturers, the manufacturers who truly want to and have the potential to dominate, and there are only a few...Chev, Ford, Honda, Nissan and now Hyundai....all of them use the Camry as the benchmark. Sure, Mazda is a great car but they know they aren't going to sell 300,000 6's so they design and market for their goals. Hyundai, the new upstart, has the Camry in its bulleye for a number of reasons: stylng, even tho bland to many of us, the Camry is a huge winner and makes Toyota money. In fact, the Camry is what started Toyota off as a powerhouse. If you will remember back in 1990, the Camry was launched as a bigger and more substantial machine. I'll never forget the first time I saw that Camry and drove it, I recall commenting to my brother that this car was going to change everything for Toyota. All automakers are now shooting for a Camry-revolution when it comes to the mid-size segment. Keep in mind that even tho you build a great car you have to have a number of factors in your favor to make it happen. Dealership presence, brand image, perceived reliability, press(which requires $$) and tons of marketing. Ford did it with the Taurus years back, Honda has done it with the Accord, Nissan has done it with the previous generation Altima(this gen. Altima is a hit too but not a mid-size threat to the Camry) and now Hyundai. Altho they will pump out only about 120,000 Sonatas this year, Hyundai is anticipating selling nearly 200,000 in the next few years. And just like Toyota threw their money into the Camry over a decade ago, Hyundai is banking their entire future of all of its other offerings..New Azera, Accent, Santa Fe, 07 Elantra, 08 rear while drive Luxury sedan, Portico concept and larger Tahoe-like SUV on this Sonata and their marketing theme: "A Hyundai Like You've Never Seen Before' We can all dispute the interior, exterior but they do have a sales success on their hands so far and a ton of more people are cross-shopping because of this vehicle. How did it happen? They shot for the Camry!!!! They didn't choose Honda because the Accord, altho a press favorite isn't the benchmark for sales and profit like the Camry.

    By the way, did you know that Hyundai's chief designer and the Toyota Chief Designer meet regularly? Read about the J-Factor and K-Factor in automotive design..kinda interesting.

    http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/feb2006/gb20060222_855408.htm
  • oldjoeoldjoe Member Posts: 132
    Let's see, Honda has made Car and Driver Best 10 cars list 18 out of the last 22 years. Hyundai is just trying to break into a market where their reputation has been CENSORED over the same 22 year period.... Let's see, maybe we will see the same statistics in 22 years for the Hyundai...maybe! After 20 years of producing very substandard products with customers that have long memories and lots of relatives, Hyundai has a lot of ground to make up.

    SAFETY ISSUES: I am concerned about the 40% less welds with the Hyundai as that is probably where the cost-cutting safety cage intrusion is compromised...but who knows? Let's see, unproven design, unproven engines, unproven quality and the biggy...unproven resale value.

    However, if cheap is your thing instead of quality and you are looking for a throw-away auto, I do see that Hyundai is advertising leases for $189 a month ($2,000 down)...get a leased one and if it is a lousy auto, then dump it at the end of the lease.

    V-6 Sonata models are STILL getting factory discounts of $3,000 ($2,000 for the 4 cylinder) as Hyundai seems to be dumping their excess Sonata inventory and their overbuilt V6.

    No discounts announced on 2006 Toyota Camrys or Honda Accords yet, they can't build enough of them as it is...demand for the CamAcc is still tremendous where Hyundai seems to be having a clearance sale already!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    jrock, I'm afraid there is no PERIOD in these discussions, no matter how important you think you are.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    There are definitely discounts on the 06 Camry and Accord. The Camry ranges from $500 to $1000 depending on region, in the form of a factory to customer rebate. The Accords are more well hidden, but there are minor factory to dealer incentives right now, from what I understand.

    ~alpha
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Now available at pressroom.toyota.com.

    Pretty much no big changes. Price of the volume selling LE 4 5A rises $125, but includes Side Curtains and Brake Assist as standard now.

    What I am surprised at is that Toyota did not disclaim the increases on the SE and XLE 4s as stating the additional standard equipment on both. For example, the price of the XLE 4 went up $1630, but the 2007 has everything the 2006 did, but adds power moonroof and alloys as standard (and a few minor items), which would account for $1230 of the increase, at current options prices.

    ~alpha
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    thegraduate,

    If you read the post, it was a tongue-in-cheek response to ontop's post, which ended with a "Period." It's silly when people end their posts with a "Period", as if that's the end to the discussion or something.

    Next time, read the context of the post before you start going off on people's perceived importance of themselves.

    Thanks.
  • dmclonedmclone Member Posts: 5
    I'm going to throw out looks because they are all pretty boring in the style department.

    Here is what I know. I've owned 15 cars in my life with 11 of those being imports. Everything from a 350Z to a Honda Element. My wife owns a 2004 Honda Accord EX-L 4cyl and I find it hard to believe that any of these cars are better overall. Keep in mind that I can't speak on the Hyundai because I've never driven one.

    Interior-Typical Honda. Very quite, excellent control placement. Very good materials for this class.

    Motor-It's hard to believe this thing only has 160hp. It runs smooth from start to finish and has very good pick-up. You can just set the cruise at 90 and let it go all day long. My wife had a Camry before the Accord and the Camry was nice and quiet but didn't feel half as strong even though it had similar hp.

    Trans-No comlaints

    Resale-This is where the Honda will really shine. After 50K miles, you will get in the Honda and everything will still feel and sound like new.

    The Honda wins most of these comparisons because it doesn't do anything wrong and most things pretty good.

    I've owned one other Accord in the past and I thought it was ok but these newer ones are pretty amazing for the $$$. Everytime I drive her car I tihnk to myself that it's a hell of a deal for the $$$.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731

    If you read the post, it was a tongue-in-cheek response to ontop's post, which ended with a "Period." It's silly when people end their posts with a "Period", as if that's the end to the discussion or something.


    My apologies...I didn't see the usual bold insert of the quote to which you were replying, hence my misunderstanding.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    No big deal. Period. :D
  • pocono35pocono35 Member Posts: 89
    The Hyundai Sonata earned the highest ranking - 5 STAR in the recent NHSTA test.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I wasn't talking about the Camry's gauges looking like an alarm clock or a cheapo stereo sold at Wal-Mart, but the center stack.

    Do the Edmunds TCO calculations take into account all rebates? I don't think they do. What is the effect on TCO of the full $3000 in rebates on the Sonata LX V6?

    As for owning a car for 10 years being no fun... it is if it's a good car! It's a lot of fun driving down the road in a car with no payments! :D I plan on keeping my two current Hyundais plus my next new car in my family for at least 10 years each--the better to take full advantage of the 10-year powertrain warranty! :)
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    The Hyundai Sonata earned the highest ranking - 5 STAR in the recent NHSTA test.

    That's so last month. :P

    No wait, it came out earlier than that.

    The NHSTA rating system has flaws. I'm not in the mood to elaborate again.

    Wait, I found it.

    "For one thing, even though forces on the dummies' heads are measured, they aren't considered for the "star" ratings. Secondly, NHTSA counts only forces on the thorax and pelvis toward the ratings, even though head injuries cause the most deaths in real-world side impact crashes. Finally, their barrier simulates the front end of a car, so it's not high enough to strike the dummies' heads directly, as would be true for a large truck or SUV. Side airbags are most beneficial in protecting the head, by interposing a cushion between the intruding object and the head.
    So, wait until the IIHS releases their side tests -- much more informative." - 210delray

    We're in luck! I believe the Sonata's IIHS crash score is coming out next month.
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    As for owning a car for 10 years being no fun... it is if it's a good car! It's a lot of fun driving down the road in a car with no payments!

    I'd hate to keep a car 10 years. How un-fun. Do you keep the same furniture, dishes, bedding, clothes etc that long cause they're paid for? If you're gonna keep a car 10+ years why visit boards like these and discuss new cars when you know you're not a buyer, just a looker?

    Cars are like consumer goods. Good for 5 years then dump em for something new and shiny. Its fun.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I am not saying NHTSA is good or bad but it is pretty respectable when there are only a few vehicles actually earned five stars across the board. I recall in the family sedan class, the Sonata was the only one (up to 06 model year).
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Their star rating is also flawed.

    If you notice, an Accord without side airbags received a 5 star rating in the rear side. While an Accord with side airbags received a 4 star. In the IIHS rating, the Accord without side airbags received a POOR. While the Accord with side airbags ended up with a GOOD rating.

    Also, 2/3 of the Accord's individual scores were better than the Sonata's. One of which was the head injury.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Do you keep the same furniture, dishes, bedding, clothes etc that long cause they're paid for?

    Yes and No. Much of our furniture is over 30 years old (dining room and dressers) because we bought quality. China and silverware are about the same age. Pool table is 34 years old.

    "Every day" dishes that get chipped or clothes that show signs of wear (or don't fit, lol) don't last near 10 years.

    If it looks good and works well, why get rid of it just to get something new. If you don't want a car for more than 5 years, it sounds like you are in the market for a "throw away" car, because that is what you are doing, regardless of whatever a trade-in value may be.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I'd hate to keep a car 10 years. How un-fun. Do you keep the same furniture, dishes, bedding, clothes etc that long cause they're paid for? If you're gonna keep a car 10+ years why visit boards like these and discuss new cars when you know you're not a buyer, just a looker?

    I keep stuff as long as it hasn't worn out and still meets my needs. Why throw out perfectly good stuff? Been to a landfill lately? My first sofa lasted 20 years (it was a really good one), the 2nd over 15 (kids--more wear and tear).

    As for why I visit boards like this--why do you care and why is it any of your business? Are you the Town Hall moderator now?

    FWIW, I have purchased or leased six cars in the past nine years, and I'll be buying my next one as early as this fall--maybe I'll wait until next year though. Is that enough buying activity to satisfy you?
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    New cars are lots of fun. And part of the fun is going online and poking around, researching, and sizing up your desires against all the offerings out there.

    But once you've bought the shopping around fun here doesn't have to end. Most people on these boards probably aren't buyers anytime soon. But when they do buy you can be sure they'll be back online with a different outlook on vehicles, even tho another purchase isn't anytime soon.

    I bought a new car and a minivan in the last few months ($$$$$$$) and still come back for the banter. Cars are fun. So is the banter.
  • lightfootfllightfootfl Member Posts: 442
    What is it about buying/keeping that should be "fun"? Shouldn't our financial decisions be based mostly on use, quality, appearance, desire, and research? Fun buying should be for throwaway type items. Should we move from our homes because we have been there for a period of time? I think there is a lot more to buying large expense type items than fun. Of course if you have enough money to throw it around just to have fun, then that is something different. Most of us though have to watch our money more closely than that. BTW my china is now 50yrs old, and I use and enjoy it regularly, but not everyday.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    New cars are lots of fun. And part of the fun is going online and poking around, researching, and sizing up your desires against all the offerings out there.

    But once you've bought the shopping around fun here doesn't have to end. Most people on these boards probably aren't buyers anytime soon. But when they do buy you can be sure they'll be back online with a different outlook on vehicles, even tho another purchase isn't anytime soon.

    I bought a new car and a minivan in the last few months ($$$$$$$) and still come back for the banter. Cars are fun. So is the banter.


    I completely agree, leadfoot. Many people (my father is one of them) like the thrill of driving something different every year or two. An example, in the last 12 years, HIS cars (not mom's) have consisted of:

    1994 Lebaron Convertible GTC (sold b/c of tranny probs)
    1995 Civic DX (wanted an Auto, this car was a manual)
    1996 Sebring Convertible JX (Suspension probs, but loved it)
    1998 Civic EX (His favorite, but I outgrew it riding in the back)
    2000 Accord LX
    2001 Accord LX (the 2000 was T-Boned, he got rid of it)
    2002 CR-V LX
    2003 Accord EX
    2005 Accord EX (Current Car)

    9 cars in 12 years, where as mom has had two cars in the same time-frame, a 1993 Accord EX and a 2000 Odyssey EX.

    I don't know where I'll stand compared to them, but I do like change. For now, I've got a new 2006 and a 1996 that I go between. That seems to keep things interesting enough for me.

    I love the banter, too. This stuff that we are doing right here.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    The current rating from IIHS is still reflective of the old (outgoing) model (pre-2006). I'd think the 06 model will perform much better...
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    James Healy surprises again:
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2006-02-24-camry_x.htm

    A very mixed review of the new Camry, and does not corroborate at all the Car and Driver take on Toyota's stability control system. I'd tend to favor Car and Drivers criticism of the system, as compared to Healy's plaudits.

    Additionally, the experience Healy had with the 6A in the test car differs from what was presented in the Motor Trend and Edmunds.com previews....

    The following comments also seem disjointed:

    "Exceptions to good taste: The wood still is fake, but there isn't a ton and, in the test car, it was light, like maple, instead of the dreadful orange or dark, dark brown Toyota has used.

    And the green tone of the control panel — the plastic itself, not the illumination — seemed ridiculous rather than distinctive.

    Leather seats looked great and felt good. Toyota's leather doesn't always sit as good as it looks, so that was a nice surprise."

    So, did he like or dislike the fake wood? What green tint to plastics is he referring to? I can only think that he's pointing to the climate control knobs? And how is leather that looks great and feels good an "exception to good taste"?

    He also makes the following comment:

    "The rear seat provides generous leg and knee space, as good as some supposedly bigger cars. And the seat itself is comfortable."

    But follows it up with:

    "Complaints? But of course.

    •Size. The '07 is actually smaller inside than the '06, despite a longer wheelbase and wider body. The differences are marginal but measurable, according to Toyota specifications. There's a half-inch less of headroom. The trunk's 10% smaller. Shoulder and hip room are only fractionally improved, even though the car is an inch wider. Total passenger space is down 0.3%."

    Certainly, any opinion is a valid one, but I find his often contradictory and perplexing, not only in this review, but in others as well.

    ~alpha
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    The majority of my cars are over 10 years old: 2006, 1994, 1985, and 1970. And, my Ethan Allen, Tell City, and Pennsylvania House furniture is between 15 and 30 years old. If you're happy with what you have and it still meets your needs because you've taken care of it, why waste your money on something newer - and, especially with furniture, not necessarily superior.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I have a feeling Healy writes in a controversial way to help sell papers. But he makes some interesting comments:

    If you have to swipe from Germans, guys, purloin Audi's lines.

    For example, like Hyundai did with the Sonata. :)

    The best definition of elegance is simplicity.

    For example, like the radio controls of the Sonata, praised by CR in its review for their simplicity. :D

    And the green tone of the control panel — the plastic itself, not the illumination — seemed ridiculous rather than distinctive.

    I think he means the greenish tint of the translucent plastic on the center stack--which makes it look like a clock radio. ;)

    Overall, it seems to me like a positive review. He pointed out a few things that he didn't like and some problems he found on the pre-production tester. But his overall opinion is that the Camry won't relinquish its #1 standing in the market. Stating both the positive and negative of a car isn't contradictory to me, or perplexing. I actually agree with him on some of his points, e.g. I don't think the new styling is all that great, although it's an improvement over the current Camry.

    P.S. His comment about "exceptions to good taste" was clearly aimed at the fake wood (I guess he expects real wood in a sub-$30k family car) and the greenish tone on the control panel, not the leather. But the formatting of the article could have made that clearer.
  • kwonc71kwonc71 Member Posts: 245
    Been reading articles about new Camry. Its clear that Camry will remain as the king of family sedan. As Accord goes, they have to modify the shape of Accord soon. New Accord's exterior is butt ugly period. Otherwise, Sonata will catch up their sales soon. Even good looking new Camry vs Sonata, actual purchase price diff of almost $6,000-$8,000 will make many buyers lean to Sonata too(Some of dealership sell top LX Sonata for $19,000). Hyundai might even lower the price more if new Camry starts sell well. Bought my LX Sonata in Nov for $19,500, and put close to 4000 miles. Blew the doors off of many cars includes: Audi A4 2.0 Turbo and Mitsu Eclipse Spyder. Had only one rattle problem which took care by dealership while I had free loaner car. When I consider my friend's brand new RX330 had rattle from dash board too-$40,000 rig-twice the price of my LX Sonata. I can say my LX is perfect, and I'm very happy with it. Let's see how accurate my prediction will be. By this summer, Sonata will sold about same numbers or more than Accord. Close to 2/3 of Camry sales. Some of you guys might laugh at my prediction, like my Vietnamese classmates 10 years ago were call Hyundai as Yugo and laugh at it. Time will tell. GO! GO! GO! My pride "HYUNDAI"- My motherland company, Built in the USA.
  • kwonc71kwonc71 Member Posts: 245
    "$19,800 is the invoice price for a Sonata GLS V6 with no extra options. Good luck getting that car for $16K. Only way you're doing that is if they give you $3K less for your trade-in than it is worth."

    Dealers at Portland, OR, sell GLS V6 for $15,500 after rebates. You can't even buy DX Civic for that price.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    New Accord's exterior is butt ugly period.

    New Camry front end is ugly, period. See, I can do it too! My point though, is that it is your opinion. Apparently, 360,000+ people per year think it is nice-enough looking to spend $18,000-$31,000 on. Actually, I believe someone posted where, without fleet sales, more private buyers actually purchased Accords than Camry's last year, b/c 14% (I think if I'm remembering well) of Camry sales were actually found to be sold to fleets.

    There is no PERIOD in talking about style, it's purely in the eye of the beholder. I think Camry's from 1992-2006 look MUCH better outside than the new 2007 model. The interior is quite nice, though.
  • carrmancarrman Member Posts: 20
    I'd hate to keep a car 10 years. How un-fun. Do you keep the same furniture, dishes, bedding, clothes etc that long cause they're paid for? If you're gonna keep a car 10+ years why visit boards like these and discuss new cars when you know you're not a buyer, just a looker?


    I agree a car is just another consumer item much like a pair of shoes BUT instead of dumping it after 5 years my goal is to keep it as a back up when the next new shiny wunder vehicle is in the shop for some rediculous problem.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The only disagreement I have with this "it's a consumer item like a pair of shoes" kind of statement, is that I don't spend $25,000 on a pair of shoes, and my shoes don't depreciate and lose $3,000-$5,000 in value. They are easily bought anew without it being a major financial decision. Without car payments, I suddenly have $300-$500 extra income at my disposal per month, that can be invested, or spent elsewhere (travel, gadgets, etc...).

    I do agree that keeping the "old" car is a good way to do things, especially if it does not hold much resale value. My family did the same thing. I drove a 1996 Accord daily, and it now has 157,000 miles. I drive it in bad-weather, or where I know parking will be bad (Wal-Mart for example), and use the new car on other occasions. The '96 is only worth about $2,500 to trade in now (last offer I had on it was $2500), so its value is worth more by keeping it than taking the cash.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Victory: Camry, in the new issue of Motor Trend. Interesting to note that for its use of the V6, the Accord posted a 0-60 time of 6.9 seconds, and the Camry, using the 4 cylinder, posted a time of 7.9 seconds, and consistently better fuel economy.

    I knew Toyota was watering down the number for the Hybrid- geez, the Hybrid makes as much combined power as the last V6 and weighs not too too much more! Who internally clocked it at their 8.9 second time? Did (s)he weigh 450lbs?

    ~alpha
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    The only comment I have on the OP that stated that "a car is a consumer item like of pair of shoes," is that he either has more disposable income than smart money sense, and/or really doesn't care if he pours money down the drain or not. If that's the case so be it, consider yourself lucky. However, most of us with mortgages, college tuition, etc. have to spend our bucks much wiser.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I'm thinking about a Sonata LXV6, Camry LEV6, Accord LX V6 or Fusion SES V6 and will likely drive about 20,000 miles per year for 3 years.
    The Camry and Accord will have the best residual values, which is supposed to mean the lease should, therefore be cheaper. However, the Hyundai and Ford could have added incentives to make it a wash.
    Since I would be driving over 15K miles per year, which offer the lowest prepaid excess miles and are they refundable if not used? I have read ranges from 8 cents a mile up to almost the same cost as paying the excess mileage penalty.
    I have also heard that sometimes prepaid miles are refundable and sometimes not. Which offer refundable prepaid miles?
    If I drove 60,000 miles in 3 years, the Hyundai would be the only one fully covered by the bumper to bumper warranty during the lease term. All the others would require the additional cost of an extended warranty unless I wanted to take my chances on paying for repairs on a leased car.
    What would it cost for an extended warranty on the other cars that would give $0 deductible bumper to bumper coverage for at least 60,000 miles?

    Costs other than gas and insurance would be the 36 month 15K per year lease costs plus cost of additional mileage charges, plus cost of any needed extended warranty, plus cost of maintenance (I assume that besides the regular scheduled maintenance, they would all need at least need "wear items" not covered by warranty such tires and brakes replaced at least once before 60K miles).

    Not seeing much case for the Fusion since it would not have high residual like Toyota and Honda and also would not have included warranty coverage like the Hyundai Sonata.

    After all these considerations, which should end up being the cheapest for a 3 year 60K mile lease?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It's hard to say since you want 20k miles a year, but you might find the best deal right now is on the Camry LE V6, since Toyota dealers should be trying to clear their lots of the '06s to make way for the '07s, so there may be some rebates and big discounts to go along with the high residual value.

    Why not just talk to you local dealers and ask them to run the numbers, so you can compare? Maybe the lower up-front cost of the Sonata will outweigh the lower residual value.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Frontend of the car took styling que from Mazda 6. Does anyone else see this? :confuse:
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    There is some resemblance, but the Mazda6 doesn't have the fat, ugly blister on its upper lip like the Camry does.
  • car15car15 Member Posts: 2
    The Honda Accord and Mercury Milan are the new best midsize sedans. The Toyota Camry would be one if not for the 3 star safety rating in the rear seat.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If you are judging the "best" midsized sedan based on their NHTSA crash test scores, wouldn't that make the Galant and the Sonata the "best", since they have five stars across the board for all models, and the Fusion/Milan has only four stars across the board (five stars on front side impact with the optional side bags/curtains)?
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Both are good cars but how in the world did you come up with that conclusion? Best in _____? If it is safety, then Accord and Milan are would not be it.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    I'm thinking about a Sonata LXV6, Camry LEV6, Accord LX V6 or Fusion SES V6 and will likely drive about 20,000 miles per year for 3 years.

    From current market situations, I'd say the Hyundai will have the lowest residuals. Think about it like this, whe nit was introduced people payed full sticker at 20K, now you can get the same car at 16.5K and it has only been 6 months. Also look at your nearest Avis and you'll see that the Sonata has had serious fleet sales. The Fusion will be 3rd. It has had less fleet sales and far less rebates. It should be right along the Accord/Camry lines.

    I thought that the bumper to bumper warranty on any would cover you for 3 years/ 60K miles but I could be wrong. With reliability where it is these days, I wouldn't even bother with the extended warranty if I was only keeping the car for 36 months.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The bumper-to-bumper warranty on all but the Sonata is only for 3 years, 36,000 miles. The Fusion has the worst warranty of all, only a paltry 3 years/36,000 miles for powertrain.

    I've seen lots of Fusions and Camrys in rental car fleets also.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The Camry sells at 12% to fleets. Not sure if this will change for the '07 redux.

    ~alpha
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I expect the Hyundai and Fusion to have lower residuals than the Accord and Camry, but like I said, it's possible for aggressive lease subsidies to make this not an issue.
    I am also considering other costs, such as the cost of purchasing additional miles beyond 15K per year, and the cost of, maintenance, purchasing an extended $0 deductible warranty covering the extra mileage and so on.
    Not needing to purchase an extended warranty at added cost for the Sonata should also offset a lower residual.
    Does anyone know what the manufacturers are charging for purchasing additional miles beyond 15K per year?
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    I've seen lots of Fusions and Camrys in rental car fleets also.

    Define alot because Ford has defined the numbers of the Fusion fleet sales and they are low. Remember also that a rental car company can get a Fusion at full pricea as well. That is not a fleet sale. The Tuarus is Ford's fleet car. The 500 and Fusion are not going to be in the fleets heavily.

    The Camry is 12% fleet. That is a whole lot of Camrys but I would say to you that the Sonata may be at a higher fleet percentage than the Camry and Fusion.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I have seen a lot of past Hyundais (especially Elantras and Accents) at certain rental companies, but I haven't seen the new 2006 Sonata yet.
    I wonder what what percentage of fleet sales Hyundai plans for the redesigned Sonata?
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Just would like to know what is that number Ford has for the Fusions sold the fleet? Last month (January reporting), over 30% of Ford's reported sales were to fleet programs (which bumped them into a gain for the month). While the majority of fleet sales were in fact the Taurus and Crown Vic, 500, Fusion and others made up a good amount as well. I don't have exact figures but I will by the end of the quarter.

    Camry @ 12% sounds a bit high to me but not certain. As for Sonata fleets, numbers are not readily available yet but it is much less than the previous Sonata. My best estimate would be a litle higher than Accords (again not certain until I get exact figures).
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