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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Lots of past Hotoy buyers have Hyundai and Kia in their garage.

    The sales figures don't back that statement up. Toyota and Honda are reporting record sales. Sounds like more people are buying them, not less. Let's see what Hyundai can do with the next generation of the Sonata. Will they make it better than the current generation (like Accords and Camrys) or will they just stay in line, with the other pretenders. When the new Accord comes out for 08 next year, the Sonata will be left in the dust by Honda and Toyota and Nissan again. The chances of them catching up with the Japanese "Big Three" (as far as sales) are slim and none.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Higher sales numbers do not automatically mean that it is a better car. A lot of it has to do with brand loyalty.

    Take the F-150 for example. I'm willing to bet that when the 2007 Tundra comes out, it'll be better than the F-150 in most ways.

    However, the F-150 will continue to outsell the Tundra by more than 5 to 1.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    In the same sense, Hyundai is reporting record sales as well.

    "Lots of past Hotoy buyers have Hyundai and Kia in their garage."

    The above quote was said probably because Sonata sales increase percentage-wise (% vs. last year) are much higher than Camrys, Accords, etc...it is speculation but I would say very likely Camry/Accord owners have switched to Sonata and others...
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    Perhaps where you live, but what are the sales figures for Western Ohio?

    >The sales figures don't back that statement up.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Looking for opinions you may have after taking a test drive of a Camry, Accord, Sonata, Azera,Mazda6, Fusion, Impala or Lucerne. Anyone done a recent comparison of several cars in one day to see how they compared?
    -Loren
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    Be sure to check this (2007 Camry woes) from the list on the upper left of Edmunds site...or on a Toyota site.

    Tranny seems to have a lot of reported problems for a car that has been on the market for only 6 weeks or so.

    I'm sure Toyota will take care of it eventually. Fixes don't happen like switching a light switch.
  • enkaenka Member Posts: 35
    people are jelous because Hyundai Sonata sales are increasing in May 2006 they sold more than 17,000 sonatas. Hyundai has better reputation than Kia. If Hyundai corporation did not help Kia couple years ago there would not be any Kia's today. After Hyundai bought Kia, Kia started to get some attention and they are from the same conutry Korea so stop being jelous. Seriously.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    It's a lot easier to have a large percentage increase in sales, when you sell a smaller number of cars. Percentage of increase means little. The total number of cars sold, is what counts. Claims that Hyundai will challenge Honyota in sales numbers (in the next few years) sounds like wishful thinking. The numbers aren't there. Do you think the 07 or 08 Sonata will sell better than the 06 is now? I really doubt it. The other companies ( Toyota Honda Nissan) have or will have newer models. I think sales numbers for the 06 Sonata will be as good as they will get. Hyundai better start working on the next generation. The 06 Sonata is already starting to get old.
  • enkaenka Member Posts: 35
    When the new 2007 Elantra and Santafe comes out Hyundai will problly sell more cars because its like everone has the curretn elantra and santa fe model and in 2008 Hyundai is coming with new suv Mesa and some luxury car Equss
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Hyundai, of course, has earned the reputation of being the most troublesome auto mark since the Yugo, by their owners and their own admission.

    OK, I'll bite. Could you please substantiate that statement? I don't think you can, but I am interested to see what you come up with. I am especially interested to see the quotes from Hyundai executive(s) stating that Hyundai is the most troublesome marque since the Yugo. Not even 3rd party data such as from J.D. Power or CR backs that up, so I would be utterly shocked if Hyundai's executives made that kind of statement.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Is that possibly a programming error? A software fix needed for the shift points?
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yeah, I do believe they are moving up in the ranks the fastest of any car company. Will be interesting to see how the two new cars, with two new engines are for reliability not only in the 1-3 year range, but long term. Sonata and Azera are just as likely to be good as any other car based on the success of years 2002 on. That said, no one really knows about any new car. The Camry is new. I would probably bet on a new Camry over say a new Cobalt as a fairly good gamble. But in reality, they both start out as new cars. Now the Lucerne and LaCrosse may share some parts which are well known to work. GM may have some advantage in that lots of stuff is old. You know, old engines a drivetrains. If they worked, they should work theory. Maybe buying a Hyundai is more of a gamble -- oh wait, the warranty is 5 years bumper to bumper and 10 years on drivetrain -- what say the competition???
    -Loren
  • joblowjoblow Member Posts: 11
    Had our Sonata since last Sept.No problems up to now.Car drives great,sounds great,feels great,very comfortable and peppy(sporty).For the last 10 months we have yet to get a dirty look or nasty comment because we were driving a Hyundia Sonata,nor did we get questioned on why we didn't buy what so many followers buy.What we have got was non ending compliments about how classy our Sonata looks.So far 3 of our friends have gone out and bought the Sonata after seeing and trying our car.As far as the new Camry,all I can say is wow,what an ugly looking stump.There is no doubting their past popularity or how well made they have been in the past,but folks ,the new Camry is just plain ugly and I don't care how good or popular it is,I wouldn't be seen in one! Oh and those are the FACTS!
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    You are missing the point. The 06 Sonata sales have far exceeded original target, and it will continue to show amazing improvment in all aspects. And to your other point, just as Toyota/Honda/Nissan will have new models, Hyundai will also introduce new and redesign models (keep in mind the Sonata isn't the company only model :) )

    Hyundai current sits as the 7th largest automaker in the world, 4th among import nameplates in the US, etc...it strives to reach #5 in 2010 - a lofty goal but if anyone can do, it'd be Hyundai :)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    One word: ;) fleet sales
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    There is the V6 tranny issue reported and being taken care of to nearly everyone's satisfaction according to the thread. I just read the thread in its entirety.

    There also seem to be maybe 3 or 4 performance issues on the 4c as well. None are recalls, they are break-in issues if you read the thread.

    Annoying perhaps but to my friend choe13, less than 200 V6 Camry's have been 'serviced'/replaced out of nearly 100,000 vehicles shipped. You might like to think this is a huge issue but it it not until shown otherwise. But you can keep pointing it out as you are free to do.

    If you think 200 units is bad... you should get a load of this... 2006 SONATA recalls
    From Automotive.com

    2006 Hyundai Sonata Recalls

    NHTSA Campaign ID Number: 05V377000 - Get Details

    Recall Date: AUG 29, 2005

    Component: SEATS:FRONT ASSEMBLY:RECLINER

    Potential Units Affected: 36000


    NHTSA Campaign ID Number: 05V316000 - Get Details

    Recall Date: JUL 07, 2005

    Component: SUSPENSION:AUTOMATIC STABILITY CONTROL (ASC)

    Potential Units Affected: 1970

    OUCH!!!

    37,000+ units recalled???? How many have they made?

    BTW, you were the one who first brought up the subject of individual reviews in your post #3866. Just stay with the fact, they are your friend and you can't go wrong.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Give it a few months. There will be more recalls, TSBs on both Camry and Sonatas. That is the nature of the beast, and in buying new models things can go wrong more often. It will be interesting to see in the 1-3 year period and the longer 4-8 year time frame, which of the two cars actually will have the most problems. No one can say. As long as Hyundai is in business, the warranty remains as 5y/10yr. Not too bad, I would say. I am always looking at car data and kicking tires. The Hyundai Sonata and Azera do look impressive. The Camry and Accord as look first class. It may be time to give Hyundai a go! Many cars seem to be improving with time as far as fit and finish. Some like the Lucerne have brought the spotlight back to an almost dead Buick line up of cars. No, have not driven one yet, but it looks more promising. And Ford is trying with the Fusion/Milan, though a lack of side air bags, and a four star crash test is a somewhat shaky start. Looks good though.

    I suppose the Sonata and Azera may not out handle the Mazda6 or have the resale of the Accord, but they do have some good selling points. Hope they do NOT sell too many fleet cars. Oh no, Hyundai should not become the fleet kings, like GM, of the import market. Please no!
    -Loren
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    37,000 units is about 2 months' of production for the '06 Sonata.

    In contrast, for the first model year of the 2002-2006 Camry, about 148,000 units were recalled. There were 3 recalls on the 2002 Camry--all for airbag issues.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    >Be sure to check this (2007 Camry woes) from the list on the upper left of Edmunds site...

    Can you post the link? There is nothing like that in the upper left corner of my forums page.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    ... on what might be a bad situation. From STRAIGHTLINE blog today:

    Toyota
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Will be interesting to see how the two new cars, with two new engines are for reliability not only in the 1-3 year range, but long term.

    Indeed it will. The engines have quite a story behind them. They were developed by a huge team comprised of Hyundai, Daimler-Chrysler, and several other Detroit and California design firms. I read somehwere the 3.3 V6 was designed to last for 300K miles. If these engine fail, it's not because they didn't have a good pedigree.

    Although I like everything about my 06 Sonata, the V6 is my favorite feature. When idling, it's so smooth that it's almost impossible to tell whether it's running. When you nudge it a little, it responds with jet smoothness and impressive power from idle up to redline.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    It's no longer listed in "today's top topics."

    Go to the Toyota forum, click on Camry and you'll see the '07 Camry woes amoung the listed topics.
  • ar39ar39 Member Posts: 61
    If these engine fail, it's not because they didn't have a good pedigree.

    Good engines do not fail! They are definitely linked to a fine pedigree. That's the reason German engines are considered to be the cream of engine. The 300K miles depends upon the driver. An idot behind wheels can screw-up even a German engine. I'm not quite sure whether the US designers can match up with the durability & performance of German engines.

    When idling, it's so smooth that it's almost impossible to tell whether it's running.

    I hope you are comparing the V6 engine with an I4 engine. I've test driven the V6 of the far east asian brands & have observed Toyota has the smoothest of them all.

    Try driving the V8s & you'll be amazed how smooth they are.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    I totally agree with you on toyota engines, they are very smooth and quiet. in fact when starting my lexus GS300 i have to keep the door open just to make sure its on. But i have also driven the new 06 V6 Sonata and have to say this is a very nice V6, its very quiet at idle and makes all the right sounds when being revved. While not as quiet as a toyota V6, it makes some very sophisticated sounds and its very quick off the line.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Joblow said:
    Had our Sonata since last Sept.No problems up to now.Car drives great,sounds great,feels great,very comfortable and peppy(sporty).For the last 10 months we have yet to get a dirty look or nasty comment because we were driving a Hyundia Sonata,nor did we get questioned on why we didn't buy what so many followers buy.What we have got was non ending compliments about how classy our Sonata looks.So far 3 of our friends have gone out and bought the Sonata after seeing and trying our car.As far as the new Camry,all I can say is wow,what an ugly looking stump.There is no doubting their past popularity or how well made they have been in the past,but folks ,the new Camry is just plain ugly and I don't care how good or popular it is,I wouldn't be seen in one! Oh and those are the FACTS!

    First of all, you said the Sonata is peppy then you said the new Camry is an ugly looking stump and you closed it out by saying those are the FACTS.

    Let me tell ya something, the only "FACT" that's in your statements is that they are your OWN OPINIONS. :mad:

    Next time don't forget to put "IMO" after your statement if you are going to bash a product that has good reputation like the Camry.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    In a report issued today, Porsche came in first with 91 problems per 100 cars, followed by Lexus with 93 problems per 100, 3rd place Hyundai had 102 per 100 and 4th place Toyota had 106 per 100. Honda came in 6th with 110 problems per 100 and seniorjose's pick of Kia came in 24th with 136 problems per 100.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    the V6 of the far east asian brands & have observed Toyota has the smoothest of them all.

    Perhaps they are. I won't argue with your assertion.

    But, if the Sonata idles so smoothly that you can't hear or feel it running, then it doesn't help the Toyota engine much to be even smoother.

    I don't even want my engine to last 300K miles it was designed for. That's just too long to keep the same car. 150K and 10 years is plenty long enough for me to get tired of the same old car! :sick:
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    3rd place Hyundai had 102 per 100 and 4th place Toyota had 106 per 100. Honda came in 6th with 110 problems per 100

    Congratulations to Toyota and Honda for being so close behind Hyundai. That's quite an accomplishment! ;)
  • kingsalmonkingsalmon Member Posts: 97
    bhmr59,

    Don't you know that Hyundai's are pieces of junk? They made the Excel(Mitsu Precis with Mitsubishi powertrain)? They are crap! Don't bring in these facts or surveys because I don't believe any of it. Hyundai probably just paid off J.D. Powers to list them higher than Toyota and Honda. Ohhh yeah, I almost forgot, the warrenty is no good and they only need it because they know their quality sucks and people won't even go in their pathetic showrooms if they don't offer it!

    All sarcasm aside, I still can't believe that people that people doubt Hyundai's arrival in terms of quality and reliability. I own a Hyundai and it is the least problematic vehicle I've ever owned. Even the fairly new Sonata(made in America) in a brand new manufacturing plant is listed among the best in its segment! Yet people say they can't be mentioned along with Camry or Accord. Where is the Mazda6 on that list? Where is Nissan Altima?

    Call the Sonata ugly, boring, or bland, but please attack Hyundai's great quality with some sense of reasoning. Hyundai has arrived and people will continue to attack it, but let the fools pay more for what they and perhaps the world percieve to be better quality.

    Here's the link...
    http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006082
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Consider Toyota sells around 15 models, I think its a fairly impressive showing. Hyundai certainly has earned the plaudits it receives for this accomplishment.

    Is there any info source that can provide more detail around this release?

    ~alpha
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Wow, JD Powers found good results for Hyundai. Too bad that they lose a bunch of credibility by giving glowing reccomendations for such cars as the Malibu and the Alero, both of which have been ranked ahead of Sonata in the last few years by JD (which is a joke), I'd take a Sonata (even the small old model) over a Malibu or Alero ANYDAY!
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    I don't even want my engine to last 300K miles it was designed for. That's just too long to keep the same car. 150K and 10 years is plenty long enough for me to get tired of the same old car!

    Thats a great point, but good to know it was designed to go that long with proper maintenence. Myself, i wouldnt like to venture to far over the 200k mark.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I don't even want my engine to last 300K miles it was designed for.

    The longer a car is designed to run safely and reliably, the better resale should be, right?

    I've got 162,000 miles on my 1996 Accord now (clicked over yesterday. Same engine parts, only a new fan motor and brake master cylinder after 10.5 years. Not bad. I wonder how long I can keep this up (driving this old car so cheaply, that is).

    BTW, I'm still returning 28MPG in my old Accord as well, and this tank included one stint at extra-legal speeds (near 3 digits for extended time) on the interstate, and sitting at a train for a looooong time (I finally braved the heat and turned off the car and put the windows down).
  • mtnman1mtnman1 Member Posts: 431
    I've got 162,000 miles on my 1996 Accord now (clicked over yesterday. Same engine parts, only a new fan motor and brake master cylinder after 10.5 years. Not bad. I wonder how long I can keep this up (driving this old car so cheaply, that is).

    I hear this quite often, but a friend and neighbor of mine bought their son a 1991 Accord back in 2001, so he would have a car while he was away at College. It had about 150,000 miles on it and the transmission was junk in 6 months. I think it's more about proper maintenance no matter what the vehicle brand is. Honda's will go bad just like the rest IMHO.
    2012 Highlander Limited AWD V6 and 2015 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The JD Power IQS is just very irksome to me because it has historically included ABSURD items in the assessment.... FWIW, I dont consider things like "clock in poor location" to be issues of QUALITY.....

    ~alpha
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The survey was redesigned for 2006 to focus on two areas: quality of assembly, and quality of design. So if the owner thinks the clock is in a poor location, that could be considered a design issue.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Well now you only have to convince the 100 million Americans who will just shrug off the notion of buying a Hyundai, not just the 30-50 posters here on this forum.

    I for one don't put Hyundai up there in Honda's quality realm.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Yea, but the name of the survey carries over, and for me, therein lies the problem. It's still the JD Power IQS not the JD Power Design and Initial Quality Survey.

    ~alpha
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well then, the option is to buy the four cylinder Accord for as much, if not more money than the V6 Sonata GLS. Not saying you are right or wrong, but that is what it boils down to. Oh yeah, and you get the same quality rating. Will the Accord last longer -- no one knows. Is the warranty at Hyundai longer? Everyone knows.

    Guess one test drives both cars, does a look over a few hundred times to see if one looks better on the outside. The Accord may win on interior. Then there is the drive test between the four cylinder and the six to see which is preferable. Then there is the class testing done by some to be sure the yuppies approve of the car. May have to call the country club to ask if a Sonata or Azera is approved to be parked in the golfing club lot.

    I will drive quite a few cars before deciding, the Hyundai included. Even considering trying a GM again, though there are some early warning signs of another meltdown in progress. Was thinking of a test drive of the Fusion too, but they need side air bags standard and to raise the crash test scores on frontal impact to compete with the big boys. You know, like Hyundai :P
    -Loren
  • tinatinatinatina Member Posts: 388
    According to CR, the Accord was a top sedan with a red dot - so we kind of do know how it ranks. We don't know yet how the Sonata will rank (or the brand-new Camry for that matter) because I asked this same question awhile back on the dedicated Sonata thread. For my money, I would take a 2006 Accord 4 auto since its been out for awhile and its the best buy out their given the incentives on it. You also have to consider its resale.

    For the JD Power baloney covering 90 days -those surveys are pretty useless since they cover a very limited time frame and placement of knobs, switches, clocks, etc. are personal preferences, not indicative of quality concerns.

    They just opened up a new Hyundai dealership in my area - about 20 miles from my home. Glad though that there are competitors knipping at the Camry and Accord though because it will keep overall prices down.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    As I understand it, J D Power does not make recommendations; it reports results of a survey, in this case over 63,000 respondents.

    The sample is probably more accurate than a typical election poll.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    kingsalmon,

    How prophetic you were in your post!
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    I think an initial quality survey is lame. Who's gonna say 'yea, I bought a problem?' when they know its their baby and they're practically stuck with it?
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Look down to the bottom of the list - that's awful a lot of problems I see from the study :)

    Like it or not, JD Power/CR studies are influential in the industry and highly praised - you'd be surprised how many consumers rely on them because of their reputation. I don't know if there are anything better in terms of, well, in all aspects (sample size, reliablity, etc) - it's as good as you can get!!

    Congrats to Porsche, Lexus and Hyundai, for finishing in the top three. Both Porsche and Hyundai defn. surprised me; I knew they would do well - I just didn't know they would both do that well - Kudos :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Do you read many of the "Problems" discussions in Town Hall? If so, you know there are lots of people who get pretty upset when their new "baby" has a quality problem. Mad at the manufacturer too. I would think these folks would have no problem stating their minds in a survey.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    when you are driving, do you think about side airbags? they might help,but it is not too likely. 2 reasons, rare collision, and the other vehicle isn't much larger than yours.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    "I hear this quite often, but a friend and neighbor of mine bought their son a 1991 Accord back in 2001, so he would have a car while he was away at College. It had about 150,000 miles on it and the transmission was junk in 6 months. I think it's more about proper maintenance no matter what the vehicle brand is. Honda's will go bad just like the rest IMHO."

    not quite true. Some cars definitely have ability to take more torture and still bounce back than some others. Like nissan car usually are weak from my experiences. Hondas, mercedez, bmw believe it or not even saabs can take torture pretty good even if u drive it like a ignorant fool. Toyota can take torture as well but thats because they make their cars drivable to a "limit" from ever getting to be driven too hard etc. Toyota cars definitely controls u and not the other way around. Mazdas as well can take torture pretty well with all the handling torture u give it

    American cars, forget about it. All those cars i see on the highways stopping cuz their engines blew, usually american cars. And i know cuz i've helped a couple of them already
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    The "JD Power initial quality survey" was made for cars with long term reliability problems. Cars don't usually have major problems right off the lot (90 days). How will it hold up after 10 years of hard driving. I know from experience that an Accord will last 12 years (180,000 miles) with less than $1,000 worth of repairs. Will a Sonata do that? Get back to me in 10 years.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Let's review:

    Sonata has scored well in numerous highly influenced reliablity reports.

    And to your other point about repair costs - recently, as a matter of fact, few days ago, the Sonata takes home the award for the least amount of repair costs in the large car segement (Optima takes home the award in the midsize segment). Check Intellichoice 2006 Awards for more details.

    Personally I've examined and worked on many older-gen Sonatas and they hold up quite well, defn. more than many people give them credit for. Ex: My neighbor has a 98 Sonata (one owner - over 130K miles) - the car has clean bill of health to my knowledge, like it was purchased from day one. By my calculation, it's coming up to its 9th year in ownership (purchased in '97). On the other hand, I've only examined/worked on a few Accords so I won't say anything I can't back up (but I have heard/read numerous engine problems/issues...)
This discussion has been closed.