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Comments
I think you hit the nail on the head. A HUGE vacuum leak!
But, if I were to drive the thing to work, it's a sure bet it would leave me stranded in the evening when it's time to come home. Even if it's been sitting all day. One day, I drove it to work around 7:30 in the morning. I had to pull some OT that night, and didn't get out to the car until around 8-8:30 at night, and it was after sunset. Heck, even sitting in my yard for a few days, if I were to try starting it in the afternoon, it'll refuse. It'll crank and turn over, but just won't fire up.
Any idea of what this could be? The car is a 360-2bbl, and only has about 64,000 miles on it. However, it sat around alot. I've put maybe 500 miles on it since I bought it in May. Prior to that, I think the previous owner said he drove it about 10 miles the year before! It was his father's car, and when the father passed away, the car mainly just sat around in the garage. I think the only reason it even had that 10 miles put on it was to take it in for its annual inspection!
So, I know the car really could use a tuneup. All I've done to it is have the electric choke replaced, and replaced the fuel filter. Also, if I were to start up the car every few hours, even on a hot day, it'll fire up fine every time. But once it starts sitting for more like 4 or 5, it'll refuse. So, does anybody have any ideas on what in the car could be heating up, to make it get cranky in the afternoon/evening?
Not sure what could cause that though.
edit - when it does this, is there gas at the carb? If you get out, take off the aircleaner, and push the throttle do you get gas from the accel. jets?
It's a LOT easier to start in the mornings now, or even those times where I only let it sit a couple hours. And for about a month it seemed okay in the afternoon. However, on the days I drove it, I'd park under the shade of a big oak tree at work, to keep the interior cool. Even though it's cloth, midnight blue still gets hotter than blazes! On those afternoons, I'd come out, just give the pedal maybe 1/2 pump, and it would fire right up.
Then one day I left it out in the sun, and although it sat for 12-13 hours and it was dark when I left the office, it refused to start. And then the next time I drove it, I parked under that oak tree again, to see if the shade had much correlation, but it refused to start then, too. And that was actually a fairly mild day.
I haven't actually checked the jets to see it it's indeed shooting gas into the carb during those times when it refuses to start. However, I can smell gasoline, so I'm presuming it's getting it? And I have tried spraying some nicely flammable carb/choke cleaner down in the throat when the thing would refuse to start, but that wouldn't help either.
And oddly, the day I changed the fuel filter, it was refusing to start at that time, but once I had the new filter on, it fired right up. But I just knew that was too easy of a fix. And sure enough, it was just coincidence.
Y'know, I've thought about the cap and rotor. When those things start to go, they can make a car act up in all sorts of weird ways. That'll probably be the next thing I try. I had a '79 Newport with a 318-2bbl, and the cap got a hairline crack in it...caused all sorts of driveability and stalling/refusing to start issues that made me think it was fuel or carb related.
Have you tried trying to start it hot by depressing the gas pedal and just keeping it there (NO pumping allowed!). If there is excess fuel in the cylinders, this should clear it out.
If you have very old spark plugs, they can become gas fouled quite easily.
Yeah, I've tried that trick too. Believe it or not, there's a label on the driver's side visor (where the airbag warning often is nowadays) that tells you what to do when the car won't start. And it mentions that, holding the pedal to the floor (no pumping) and cranking it until it (hopefully) starts. Just no longer than 15 seconds at a time, to keep from frying the starter.
As long as this car has been sitting, I'd imagine the spark plugs are pretty ancient too, so I guess I'll just add that to the list when I swap the cap and rotor. It's possible that the car just needs a good tuneup. Once it starts up it runs nice and smooth, and is pretty responsive, but I guess a tuneup would still do a world of good.
You could have the classic "combination of factors" that all come together and conspire against you under certain conditions.
You still have the gear-reduction starter I think? These get lazy over time, slowing down and sucking amperage; add that to old tune-up parts and you have just enough diminishment of ignition spark and cranking power to give you grief.
The fact that you kick right off on a cold morning also fits into this pattern. A rested battery, dry cylinders and no chance of flooding.
Try the depressed gas pedal trick anyway, and even if you have to stop cranking, don't lift up on the gas.
Car fired right up. I turned the key, and after it started cranking, slowly depressed the pedal, and it fired right up and went into fast idle mode. It did seem to take just an instant longer to fire up than it does earlier in the morning, though.
I don't think I'm going to chance driving it to work though, until I've done a tuneup on it. And even then, I'll do it on a day that I know one of my roommates will be home, and able to come get me if it doesn't start :P I guess if nothing else, once the weather gets cooler, it'll get less cranky in general, anyway.
Well yeah, in all honesty I could probably do everything this car needs for a tuneup. It has electronic ignition, so there's no points to worry about. Basically just change the cap and rotor, plugs, wires, and for good measure the air filter and pcv valve. I know I've got a timing gun and a distributor wrench around here somewhere, too.
Problem is, I hurt my shoulder and then my back, so I'm not too hep on contorting into too many positions these days to wrestle around with the car. Changing that fuel filter last week was enough...it's not exactly in the most convenient place on the R-body 360, tucked nicely away sort of under the a/c compressor, and with three lines running to it, instead of the usual two.
But, a couple years ago, I saw a one-legged old man who looked about 3 days older than Moses take down a 60-70 foot tall dead maple in the neighbor's yard and haul it away. So if he could do that, I guess I can do a simple tuneup!
It's funny though, that as I get older, I just find myself less willing to do this stuff myself, even the simple stuff.
Oh, About 15 mins ago, I went out to give the NYer another crank. Fired up with just a turn of the key, not even touching the accelerator. Heck, it fired up quicker than I've seen fuel-injected cars do!
It's also HOT out there now. I don't care what the weather station says, it feels like it's about 90, with 110% humidity! So it's behaving today, so far...
I probably could drive it to work, although I'd have to go outside and maybe start it up around 10:00, 12:00, and 2:00, to be sure that it would start around 4 when I get off.
Now...if it would just do that consistently...
We had our first frost last night. I went out this morning, before the sun hit the car, and she fired up. A little cranky...typical 1979 car reacting to cold weather, but it ran! So hopefully, this whole hot weather-no-start thing is just the car crying out for a good tuneup!
If the cap and rotor were that bad, I'm sure the plugs aren't going to be too pretty!
I have dumped about 1,000 into this car and just want it running well enough to sell it.
The car will start up and idle fine but when I rev it up and come back off the accelerator it chokes out and dies. I can choke it and it will start after turning it over for a few times.
However, about 3 weeks ago , while going about 20 mph I finally decided to "open her up". Took my foot off the gas then floored it - -well the car dropped into passing gear but before it really took off I hastily let off the accelerator (saw a cop on the other side of the street!) which caused the car to "jerk" as you might expect. Anyway, I drove it about a mile to home where it began to sputter on my street then conked out in the driveway. It would start right up then conk out. Let it sit for about 5 hours then it fired right up that evening.
I drove it about 10 miles with no problem 2 weeks ago then it sat in my garage till last night. It's been cold here in MD (20's to 40's) - -I started it up last night and it idled way low for about a minute then it conked out. Tried it again and it started but conked out in seconds. I let it sit till tonite and - - same thing. I checked the butterfly and it's closed but too dark to fool with it - - any suggestions I can use when I take a look this weekend??
Thanks for any help - - Mark
Question - -I haven't fooled with an engine this old for maybe 30 years ( had a '65 Mustang as a teen) but I seem to remember spark plugs SLOWLY degrading around 10-12K miles. The car might start missing once in awhile and so forth. Would carbon buildup (I'm certainly no expert - -just asking) suddenly "attack' my Chrysler -- I would think there'd be some loss of performance 1st.
Anyway, thanks for the advice!
thanks
First think I'd do is a compression test; if okay, then I'd static time the engine to #1 cylinder just to get in the ballpark. Then I'd re-check the firing order of your spark plug wires, inspect cap and rotor and points.
If the car has been sitting for a long time, I'd also take a gas sample and see what you got in there.
I'm thinkin' you are way ahead of yourself at the moment and need to back up some.
I suppose this could be it if it has jumped a tooth.
So compression test (without compression we have to go no further) comes before a bad camshaft (least likely); then fuel is the next system and we go from most likely (bad fuel pump) to least likely (the carburetor or clogged fuel filter); then the next system is ignition, and we go from from bad points, cap and rotor, wires and plugs, firing order, etc. (most likely) before we even think about bad ignition coil or ignition switch(unlikely).
I even will discount new parts out of the box as being faultless, as this screws up the diagnosis as well.
Thanks for the advice - -I think by mentioning the carbon buildup the mechanic was quickly able to diagnose the problem - - he checked it out real good - - she needed a major tune-up, adjust carb, plus some safety things repaired. At least it wasn't a blown engine or head gasket as I feared. I should have the car back next week - -it should be ready to go for the summer.
Thansk again, Mark
P.S. Yipes, gas prices have jumped about a buck since I last filled the car up!!!
I have a 68 mustang with a holley 4bbl 600. It sat up for several years and I got it running the other day. I decided to rebuild the carb. After the rebuild the car is back fireing repeatedly at idle. I have not touched the timing and it didnt do this before the rebuild. This was my first carb rebuild and I didnt count the turns to get the mixture right. Could air/fuel mixture be the problem. If so is there a starting point I can try with the number of turns on the 2 adjustment screws for mixture.
The carb is a 650 rebuilt 6 months ago on my 69 Torino with a 302 engine.
The problem seems to be temp sensitive as it runs good when cold and gets continually worse as it warms up.
I live in SW Florida so the choke is not hooked up or used.
Thanks fo any ideas
Rod
I finally did get it to start this past Sunday. I took an old sock, sprayed it with starting fluid, and stuck it in the throat of the carb. Car fired right up.
Well, I tried to start it again today, but it pulled the same stunt. Until I did the sock trick again. Then it fired up. Well, it also tried to swallow the sock! There was a vacuum hose attached to the side of the air cleaner, that didn't look quite right to me. I think it had come loose at some point, and I just stuck it there without thinking. Well, I pulled it out of there, and stuck it in this other spot that's actually underneath the air cleaner intake. And now it's starting just fine. I can turn it off and turn it back on and it fires right up. Where before it wasn't doing that without the sock in its throat.
I just went out after letting it sit about an hour, and again, it fired right up. So could it just have been that misplaced vacuum hose? Or is the car just behaving for the time being, waiting for me to drive it someplace far away so it can strand me? :surprise:
I pulled the whole air cleaner top off, but can't remember if that hose was already loose, or if I disconnected it. When I finally got it started just this past Sunday, with the sock in the carb, I put the air cleaner top back on and that's when I hooked that hose in what I think was the wrong place. That's while the car was actually running though. I drove it around a little bit, swapped cars in the garage so that it was in the back and the 5th Ave was up front, and then turned it off. But didn't bother to see if it would fire back up.
Then yesterday, it wouldn't start, until I did the sock trick again. For some reason, I started thinking about that vacuum hose, because it didn't seem to fit quite right there anyway, and I moved it to the other spot, while the car was running. It didn't seem to make any difference in the way the engine idled. I put the car back in the garage, and turned it off, and started it back up a few times. Fired up just fine. Tried it a bit later, and then about an hour after that, and every time it started up.
I guess the real test would be if I went out there this morning to see if it starts. Which I might try to do, once this coffee finally kicks in. I think I'm driving the convertible today, though. Supposed to be a nice day out. 91, sunny, no rain.
Oh, one other thing I did notice about the LeMans yesterday, as it was sitting there idling in the yard. I could see a little smoke coming from its tailpipe. Not blue oil smoke or white head gasket smoke, but just a little gray smoke, like maybe it's just not burning the gas completely. Guess it could just be running rich, and needing some adjustment.
On a '70s car with Rube Goldberg-esque emissions contraptions? Plenty.
So, hopefully it'll behave itself for awhile, now.
1. After the car is shut off gas leaks around the base of the carburetor. I have replaced the gasket. It may be also be leaking through the linkages. help.
Thank you.