Fuel Systems -- Maintenance & Repair

e85fan

Yes, biodiesel is far superior and I would love to see us all using it, but you do have to have a diesel car and the selection of diesel cars is pretty limited right now. My concern is today and the cars we have right now. E85 is here today and I am convinced that we can use at least 1/2 E85 1/2 gasoline mix in any car with a multipoint fuel injection system (I think that includes most, if not all cars manufactured in the past 10-15 years). Imagine what we could do if we all used 1/2 tank of E85 each time we filled up?!

My only question about E85 is whether there are any adjustments or converted parts needed (such as larger injectors) to be able to run on 100% E85 in a non FFV.

Yes, subsidies help keep the price of E85 down, but I would rather see our tax dollars going to those subsidies than the current subsidies which pay farmers NOT to grow corn. Keep in mind that the oil companies don't get subsidies too (despite recent 35%-65% increase in profits). The most recent being billions of dollars to drill in our Alaskan Wildlife Refuges. As the demand for Ethanol increases and as it is more mass produced the price will drop (along with the price of a gallon of gasoline)

As for the decrease in mileage I question whether the figures are correct. On 1/2 and 1/2 I am experiencing a minor decrease (1.5 mpg), but I did advance the timing a bit and we are having fun with the extra HP kick so our driving may be different. We experience no difference in our FFV Ford Taurus when it runs on straight E85 vs. gasoline; however, I have heard many people say they experience a signficant drop in their FFVs. Personally, I have no problem with a drop in fuel economy knowing that the money is going to American farmers rather than the Middle East.

As for the transportation issue, for the long haul the corn is mulched and transported as plant matter to the local distillery, which takes much of the danger off of our roads, pipelines, railways, etc. I will look for the reports that discussed volitility, but I have read several reports which discuss a lower ignition point, quicker evaporation, etc. Biodiesel would be far better to transport (and less of a need for long trips to the pump), but again that is not here now.

As for the political fuel comment, you are also correct to a point. ADM is the largest producer of Ethanol and is one powerful entity, but there are hundreds of small CoOps getting into the game and starting to make money, check www.e85fuel.com and see the looong list of small CoOps which are benefiting. Even if the little guy wasn't involved, I would much rather support the mega agri business over the oil industry. We don't spill blood to acquire corn or sugar beets.

By the way the U.S. Department of Agriculture concluded that ethanol produces 167% of the fossil energy that is used to grow, harvest and refine the grain and transport the ethanol to gasoline terminals for distribution. You might find this discussion and report interesting: http://www.ethanolrfa.org/resource/papers/view.php?id=4

Whew, you do raise some interesting points, but I still conclude that every gallon of E85 we use right now is a gallon of fuel not aquired by force or from tentative friendships with Middle Eastern nations, and it is one gallon of fuel not lining the pockets of the all powerful oil industry. The best point is that it is a gallon of fuel which emits far less greenhouse gasses and carbon monoxide into our air.

Perhaps my next car will be a diesel, but today, I am using E85.

swschrad

one thing about alcohol, it spalls aluminum nicely. high-test stuff can attack some rubbers, notably our universally-used chloroprene in belts, seals, and hoses.

the ENGINE won't have any trouble with E85 at all, absolutely.

what WILL is the fuel line, seals, fuel pump, and woe betide you if you have an aluminum fuel rail or pressure regulator.

if you don't have a flex-fuel car, this will bite you sooner or later. I know a bunch of farmers that use up to 40% E85 because it's there and they can. their cars are running fine. now. they may have fuel line issues down the road.

auto manufacturers have certified 10% ethanol gasoline blends are safe for their cars. when some states like Minnesota mandate 20% ethanol blends in two years, things could get interesting in some corners. we'll certainly know before too long how much alcohol is too much in a non-flex automobile. some manufacturers are going to have more trouble than others. we just don't know who.

on the biodiesel front... ANY fuel legally allowed for sale as "diesel" has to pass FTC tests, and the mix will be runnable with no damage in any diesel engine. all diesel sold in Minnesota now is B2 by law, has been for a month, and B20 is common in rural Minnesota. check your Cenex or double-circle co-op, they will have a B20 pump if they're selling bulk fuel for farms.

e85fan

Wow, do you work for Exxon? You seem somewhat angry about this discussion.

It is a myth that alcohol is corrosive to aluminum. Race cars have been using straight Ethyl alcohol for decades with no adverse effects on rubber, seals, gaskets or any of the many aluminum parts. Most cars have aluminum pistons and our Ford Taurus FFV has an aluminum fuel rail so Ford doesn't seem to think E85 will damage aluminum. Anyway, we have all been using E10 for many years with no corrosive issues. The "soft parts" which come in contact with fuel have not had any problems since the widespread use of E10.

By the way, my car is great after several months of running on 1/2 regular unleaded and 1/2 E85. We recently took it to our SAAB tech who was amazed at how clean everything was. He didn't take the engine apart, but he looked at everything he could easily access. He was very interested and saw no reason why I couldn't use start using straight E85 (he did advance the timing a few degrees for me). He did have to point out that SAAB does not endorse the use of E85.

It seems you have been sold that myth, hook, line and sinker if you are worried about adverse affects on aluminum or rubber - that myth has been debunked years ago.

This is not to say that E85 is the dream fuel. That is one reason why I posted this thing, to open a constructive discussion to see if we can determine myth from fact.

gagrice

if you are worried about adverse affects on aluminum or rubber

The best test would be to put a piece of hose and aluminum in a jar of E85. Let it sit a few months. What occured to me with race cars is they tear them down and clean everything often. That may be why GM uses the 5.3 L cast iron block for their E85 engine. I really don't have a clue about those issues. What I don't like about the 11% they put in CA gas is it drops in mileage and increases in price.

cutehumor

This maybe related to the recent work I had done with my car. I thought I run it by you guys to see what ya'll think. I just had the flexplate replaced on my 92 mitsubishi mirage 130k miles 4 cy 4-speed automatic on monday. Today, I was driving on I-40 leaving Memphis, TN to go to Nashville, TN to find a job actually and within 20 miles, I could not maintain the 70 mph speed limit. my car was slowing down slowly over several minutes from 70mph to 45mp even though I was hitting the gas pedal. At first I thought I threw a timing belt, I pulled over immediately and popped the hood. I could not find anything loose or wrong. Trans fluid is full and red. I started the car back up and drove up to 70 mph and then the same thing happened (no engine noises at all). I didn't want to take a chance of being stranded in the middle of nowhere so I turned back around and came home. I'm thinking this is either a clogged fuel filter or when the auto shop dropped the transmission they didn't reconnect something 100% right. any opinions? I hope to get the car back on the road soon. thanks

e85fan

Our Ford Taurus FFV has an aluminum block, aluminum heads and nothing different as far as we can tell other than the oxygen sensor which is in the gas tank so we can't tell what the difference between that oxygen sensor and the oxygen sensors in the exhaust of nonFFVs, but we are guessing that they do the same thing.

The difference between E10 (which is used across the country) and E11 (which I have not heard about) is so nominal as to not make any difference in price or mileage. E10 which is used all across the country actually varies by a percentage or two so it is possible that at any pump with regular unleaded with E10 you could be putting in E9 or E11 already.

swschrad

well, I can tell you that years ago, cleaning aluminum carbs with raw alcohol definitely left them pitted. of course, I don't do that much today. I have had rubber embrittled by many chemicals in my various repair projects over the years.

what I'm cranked about is that we can't all go to farmer fuel and let all our bad buddies in certain nations known for oil deposits try to sell sand instead. I'd rather burn E85, but I'm not in a flex fuel vehicle. and the automakers are all FUD over the issue; nobody is willing to step up and say their Hupmobile may not be stamped with a green leaf, but they will all run on (ethanol, pickle juice, whatever) for the full normal service life.

telling is that there is NOT ONE hybrid that is a flex-fuel vehicle.

you don't suppose their hearts are not in it, do you?

bolivar

'Advanced the timing a few degrees'?

Just how do you advance the timing on a modern, fuel injected, computer controlled engine?

You're being BS'ed.

My main problem with alcohol fuel is the large federal government support (money) to the producers. If this was not in place, the cost would not be competitive. And this is a heavily political issue, with big farming corporations lobbying the government strongly (translation - paying polititians money) for these incentives. And the 'greenies' have jumped into the issue with no thought to the actual economic value of the end product.

You don't get something for nothing. I think this is the second law of thermodynamics. If you start burning alcohol to make the fertilizer and run the tractors to grow the crops, overall it's a losing operation. You are getting cheap gasoline at the end of millions of years of geological activity. And, it's not actually cheap. We are all going to be seeing this in the coming years.

Cheap energy is coming to a close. Your children and especially grandchildren are going to have to deal with a massive change in energy consumption. I forsee an end to the single family home with 2, 3, or 4 people in a 2,000 to 3,000 square foot house climate controlled to within a few degrees.

Start telling those kids/grandkids they need to be picking nice friends, friends they should expect to be sharing space in what now is single family houses.

It's coming. I probably won't see a lot of it, but it's coming.

wlbrown9

Hum, could this be a catalytic converter almost plugged? I'm not an expert but it seems to me this could be a possibility. Also, check that fuel filter...I replaced mine last year...$15 for the filter and 15 minute to change it.

e85fan

Bolivar,

My husband and the SAAB tech advanced the timing by physically moving the timing belt 4 degrees off of dead center (I think I said that right). He said, that you are right, that you can't make an easy timing adjustment these days without freaking out the computer, but that by physically moving the belt it doesn't affect the computer.

I agree with you that cheap energy is coming to a close. We are having to fight wars, keep military bases all over the world and friendships with governements of people who hate us to the core just to get the fuel we need. With a demand like that and the high profits the oil companies require we are likely to be looking back at $3.50 per gallon as "cheap."

I don't think the earth won't run out of fossil fuels any time soon, but we may end up in irreversible trouble with our place in the world community and we are very close to killing our air quality to the point where it may not be able to be fixed.

Corn is not the only crop that makes Ethynol, but right now, it is perfect. It grows like a weed in much of the US, is more easy to cultivate and harvest than many crops and creates a great deal of biomass to produce the alcohol. We are also paying a big bill in subsidies to prevent farmers from growing corn to keep the price stable.

Right now, it Ethynol results in a 167% positive energy balance (i.e. it creates 167% of the energy that it takes to grow, harvest, distill and transport to the pump) which is a good number, but that number is quickly growing. As ethynol takes hold there is some great success in hybridizing corn to yield even more energy per square acre.

Also, keep in mind that the byproduct of distilling grain and most other biomass into ethynol is a high grade of feed, so the process is not just producing energy, but providing feed for livestock and even for housepets as well. AND it is clean burning!

bolivar

Mis-align the timing belt - Yep, that is quite an effort to trick the fuel management system. What was the cost of this 'adjustment'? Most cars, getting to the timing belt is a rather significant amount of dis-assembly of the front of the motor. (Another thought - Are you going to reverse this adjustment when you sell the vehicle, or just let the new owner, who probably would not be using ethynol, contend with it?)

'High profits the oil companies require'. I've had 33 years in a major oil company. Their main problem is they have very little control over the cost of the raw material, oil, that is the main ingredient in their manufactoring process. Worldwide oil prices have been dictitated by the middle east oil cartel. Only lately is this dictitated price being changed by something else, with the 'traders' market setting the price. This something else is supply and demand. With an under supply condition appearing, this means an increase in price.

And if anyone brings up the argument about old oil should be priced at some 'old', lower price - Oh, come now. This is capitalism - If a product if priced at $60/barrel in the middle east, what owner in his right mind would price his oil coming out of the ground in West Texas at a penny less than that?

Big oil is intergrated. Which means one company tries to own much of the process; from finding, producing, transporting, refining, transporting again, and marketing the gasoline. Where they find some segment of this process can be done cheaper by another company, and they can buy this process from the other company, they get out (sell out) of this part of the process. Only by doing this can the company weather the massive swings in oil prices that have been occuring over the last 35 years. When oil is up, they make money from oil - either because some of it is 'old' and it's cost basis is low, or from sales of oil to other oil refining companies that do not have an adequate supply of oil and must buy oil for their refineries. When the price of oil is down, their raw material cost into the refining process is low, which give them greater margin (profit) on the sales of the final product such as gasoline.

With the swings of oil prices, this has been the financial world of oil companies since the first middle east war, when the cartels became established. (Remember, the first thing the oil cartel did was cause a USA oil shortage and huge price increases by refusing to sell us their oil. And, move the price of oil from about $6/barrel to over $45/barrel. This was in 1972.)

As I said, I was in this industry for 33 years. During the last 15 of them I survived 3 major manpower cutbacks. Layoffs. Firings. With almost constant smaller, continuing reductions in manpower in one part or another of the company. Basically, month to month you never knew if you were going to be able to retain your job. Doing the work that 2 people, 3 people, 4 people were doing in the past. Not doing it with the same level of accuracy, testing, and documentation that was done by more people, but getting it done.

In 1999, when oil dropped to about $13 a barrel, and gasoline was as low as $0.79/gallon, my time came. No one stepped forward and said 'Sorry about losing your job Bolivar.' No one was complaining about big oil. Everyone just seemed to enjoy that $.79/gallon gasoline.

And based on the cheap gasoline, the auto companies embarked on a building spree of monster sized SUVs. Giving that little blond soccer mother a vehicle even larger than her previous van, something that she could use to look over and threaten smaller cars, if she thought it necessary.

'Corn grows like a weed'. The first 18 years of my life was on a hard-scrabble farm in Arkansas at the base of the Ozark mountains. We raised about 30 acres of corn each year. To feed the calves from the 50 head of cows we had. And to feed 4 or 6 pigs raised to sell or butcher for our own food. (Another aside - I never ate hambuger {steak - ha}. The calves were much too valuable as the one major cash crop to kill and eat one.) We also cut, baled, and stored about 30 acres of hay for the cattle. The corn was cultivated with a tractor (from about 1950 when the first tractor was bought and the mules sold off to an even poorer farmer) to rip out or cover weeds. (Chemicals to kill weeds was a future dream at this time.) When the corn became too tall to pass under the tractor axle, I remember many boiling hot summer days with a hoe in my hand walking row by row, hacking at weeds among the rocky soil, removing them from competing with the corn for the available moisture and fertilizer. When the corn was finally gathered, by hand, the grass and weeds were still head high in most of the fields.

Believe me. Corn does not grow 'like weeds'. Weeds easily outgrow corn.

I'm not going to argue with you about the economic basis of bio-ethynol verse gasoline. Except to say that everything I have ever read indicates that, without the substancial government incentives, even at the current increased gasoline prices, ethynol is not close to being competitive. Maybe I'm wrong about this. But I doubt it.

Overall, it's my opinion that you do not know what the heck you are talking about.

e85fan

Wow, I was absolutely intrigued by everything you wrote. I found it interesting and informative, and credible until that last sentence. That was a surprising personal attack. I posted my opinion and shared the info that I had gathered and asked for comments (not insults). I thought these forums were here to share information so that we can all learn from shared experience and knowledge.

Okay, on to the points you made:

Re: the Timing. At 60,000 miles my car requires a new timing belt as a maintenance item. To change the timing belt is a real undertaking because it is an interference engine and apparently takes expensive special purpose tools to do it right. We investigated this and went ahead and had the dealer do it. When we changed the timing belt the tech, advanced the timing about 3 degrees.

After that my husband had continued conversations with the tech about using E85 and both decided to advance the timing a tad more. The SAAB tech did it very quickly by somehow getting to it under the car (I wasn't there). I don't know what he did, but considering he replaced the timing belt, tensioner, idler pulley, put on and balanced 4 tires and did a few other things in less than 4 hours I think he is pretty good.

Do I know what I am talking about here? Maybe not, but I do try to learn, ask questions and understand. When it comes to auto mechanics, I am conveying what my husband told me and he does know what he is talking about. If I don't explain something correctly, it is possible that something has been lost in the translation between my husband and me.

As far as a purchaser of my vehicle goes, I will absolutely tell him/her that I have run E85 in the car, because it is still not recommended by the manufacturer. As for the timing, we will certainly tell a potential purchaser (although, I hadn't thought about it until you mentioned it). SAAB pays for another timing belt at 90,000 mi. which we will be approaching in the next year or so. We intend to drive this car for several more years (even though it is a gas guzzler). My next vehicle will probably be a diesel, but we would like to investigate bio-diesel first.

Re: gas prices. You are right that no one complained about OPEC or the big oil companies when the prices where crazy low and yes, it spawned monster vehicles from hell. But even back then I was concerned about being dependent on foreign oil and the oil industry which I believe have too much power over a commodity which drives our economy. I was/am also concerned about what fossil fuels are doing to our environment.

Recently, as you know, gas prices flew over $3.00/gallon. The "reason" given was "refining problems." I later read at on the DOE site that 55 refineries had been closed in the past few years. It sounded like an intentional shortage to me. Then the quarterlies came out and during that time the top oil companies showed an increase in profits of 35%-65%. I understand that gas prices are extremely complex and to look at it so simplistically is not a full picture, but the fact is that the oil companies made big bucks off of the "shortage." No small group(s) like OPEC and our oil industry should have so much power over such a pivotal fundamental commodity.

Corn may not grow like weeds everywhere, and I do not have personal experience growing corn, but here in the midwest even the smallest family farmer grows corn more easily than many crops.

You are right that to get the infrastructure for renewable fuels going and to compete against oil there will have to be some help from the government. We currently pay subsidies to farmers NOT to grow corn and billions in recently passed subsidies to the oil companies to drill in the otherwise pristine parts of Alaska. We are now subsidizing the oil companies to find new sources for oil, why not instead subsidize the cost of developing renewable, clean-burning, American fuels?

As with just about any process, the more mass produced it becomes and the longer it is in place, the more efficiently we are able to produce it.

bolivar

Last sentence - I made no personal attack. I gave my opinion that your opinions were incorrect.

I've seen the midwest corn fields. Awesome! Farming on a scale I could never have imagined growing up on our little farm.

But. About 3 years ago, one of the major networks (or was it PBS) ran a series of about 8 hours following a farm family in mid-America. This was an independently made documentary that the producer was lucky enough to sell to a major network. It followed for over a year a family of husband, wife and I think 3 little kids.

They farmed about 1,100 acres, an operation staggering to what I grew up on. The land was leased or part of his family land. They grew wheat, sorghum (sp), corn, and ran cattle. The husband also worked in a manufactoring plant and the wife worked 'in town'.

This was the most heart rendering story I've ever seen. These people were true slaves to the land. They were in a grinding cycle of each year borrowing money from the bank (guarenteed by government programs which required extensive budgeting and documentation before the loan would be approved) for land lease, seed, fertilizer, fuel, and repairs on equipment. And never clearing enough profit to actually 'get ahead'.

Their life was so brutal, one of the film crew suggested a book for the wife to read (she did most the budgeting, loans, and money managing) to help with the budgeting. The producer thought it was necessary to fire this person for his suggestion because he did not want their presence to affect what was being filmed.

The parents of the husband still farmed on adjoining land. But they were wanting to retire. The husband wanted the land, he felt he needed more land if he was to ever be successful. There were other brothers and sisters that had 'left the land', that basically felt the parents should receive money for the land, for either their retirement and/or money to be passed as inheirance to them at the parents death. And, of course, the son farming, the one being 'followed', had absolutely no money to pay the parents for the land, but he felt he had to have the land. There was a meeting of everyone in an attempt to come to some resolution of this. This meeting was the one thing the family did not allow the producer to film. And, there was never any information given about what was decided, but I don't think the he was going to be allowed to have the land for nothing.

The family didn't seem to be doing anything especially 'wrong' in farming the land. Their was some talk about the husband not being structured enough in his approach to the work, but with a second job taking time and working far into most nights, there was no room to say he was slacking in his attempt.

There was no 'ending'. Nothing was settled. But I feel the family had no chance of making it - the land and equipment they owned would be sold and they would be forced to move to a city and find 'regular' jobs.

This series was awarded no TV awards that I am aware of. I think it was just too bleak for the east or west coast 'TV people' to relate to.

This family was a reality of the old joke about a farmer that wins the $30,000,000 lottery. He is asked what he intends to do. His answer is 'Well, I guess I'll just keep farming until it's all gone.'

When farming 1,100 acres, with machinery and labor shared with his father, cannot support a family of 5......

Our great country has peaked. It will never be as good as it was at the turn of the century. And I agree that energy will be the problem that greases the slide downward.

We will see a large movement to coal, to fire the electrical generators. Which will make an even more negative impact on the envirornmental air quality. We will see a massive move back to nuclear power, which will also take huge mining investment to pull the uranium from the western desert regions where it can be found. Wind power and to a smaller degree sun power will have nitches in energy production.

We have only one hope. The little grey people will land their flying saucers, they will be friendly and benevalent. They will give us the technology they use to power their space craft across the vastness of space.

There. You knew I was crazy, right?

Mr_Shiftright

The remark was perhaps a tad discourteous in the Host's opinion. Something like "I believe your facts are incorrect" is a bit kinder.

john109

how do i locate & change fuel filter on my 1997 vw passat tdi please?

mdebiasi

Hi,

the fuel pump in my 92 accord starts making a loud noise as the gas gets down to 1/4 of the tank. That is accompanied by frequent stalls.
Also, I hear a sort of "sucking in" noise from under the car (more to the rear) at all times (full tank too).

Any insights/suggestions truly appreciated.

ahondanut

Today my 1988 S10 2.8 did the exact same thing. I was 130 miles from home and just started trying to figure out whether is was missing spark or fuel since it was spinning over so well. I had a container of gasoline so I poured some on the butterflies and cranked it. I sputtered so I thought aha no fuel but it did not die it sputtered a few more times and then seemed to idle okay but a little poorly but it continued to run. So I left for home it continued to run and I had to stop for fuel but I did not turn the engine off. When I got home I parked it and turned the ignition off and turned it back on. It did the same thing hit about 3 revolutions then nothing. I presume it would start if I primed the throttle body again. On the way home I had a lot of time to try to figure out what may be wrong. The only thing I can figure is that on start something is telling the system that no air is moving in the intake tract so it does not spray fuel. I have not studied the throttle body systems as much as I have the port design...looks like throttle body 101 class is now starting. If anyone has solved this and would like to share...I am listening. Thank you.
Ben:confuse:

mack11

I recently ran out of fuel and fuel filter has now :confuse: been fouled with tank sludge. Car is running poorly, have purchased filter but I have no idea where it is. Please help.

monkey7312

My car ('99 neon) sometimes smells like gas right after I start it. It's not really strong but I don't think it's normal. What could be causing this, and what needs to be done to fix it? Everything else is fine. The car starts and runs like it normally does.

mcorum

My 96 jgc is a 4.0 6 cyl with 194K miles. It starts surging after you drive for about 30 minutes. Won't do it before it gets good and hot. 2 dealers and 1 local mech can't find the problem. The exhaust manifold was cracked upstream of the CO2 sensor. I replaced the exhaust manifold, but no luck fixing the problem. Sitting still, trying to maintain say 2500 RPM it will surge from 2000-2500 RPM like you were patting on the gas pedal.

alcan

First thing I'd guess is the fuel filter. If that's not it, you might be feeling the torque converter clutch unlocking and locking. Next time it does it, try shifting from overdrive to drive and see if the symptom persists.

bolivar

On 4L Rangers, there is an Idle Control Valve. It's a silver and black cylinder about diameter of a 35mm film can but longer. It bolts into the lower intake, on the left side, with wires into it.

This controls the idle. The valve is a solnoid on one end, a metal valve on the other. The valve can crud up with varnish or carbon. There are holes into the intake visible when removed.

The valve can be cleaned with carb cleaner. Do NOT GET IT INTO THE solnoid wire end, it will eat up the wiring and ruin it!!!!!

If you have an idle problem, surging and or too fast or slow, cleaning or replacing the ICV is the first thing I would try.

I would also clean the MAF sensor on a vehicle with this many miles.

xtine0303

I bought a second hand 1996 mazda protege (manual transmission) last november from a private seller. Since then the car was driving smoothly and i already did 2 oil changes.
Then last week, i noticed that the car began to "stutter" whenever i accelerate from 1st gear to 2nd gear to 3rd gear. I tried reading some articles/posts regarding such problem and most of them indicates that there is a problem with the fuel system (like filter/injector clogged, regulator problem, oxygen sensor problem or the worst case is fuel pump is already worn out).

At the moment, I'm assuming its just a clogging filter/injector. If so, there are two possible solutions:
a. use a fuel system cleaner (like Techron or STP)
b. have the fuel system flushed and replace fuel filter

My questions are:
1. is it effective to use a fuel system cleaner like Techron/STP? will it not damage the car's engine or fuel system?
2. which cleaner brand is the most effective?
3. if i decide to have it flushed instead, can you recommend car shops (around the san bernardino, CA county) who can provide a good/honest service without overpricing?
4. how much is the fuel filter? where is it located and can i replace it by myself or do i need a mechanic for such work?

bolivar

-I've never heard of 'flushing' a fuel system unless some kind of foreign substance go into it - such as a lot of water from a gas station with a leaking tank. And this usually involves removing the fuel tank and dumping it.

-If you car has high milage, I think I would replace the fuel filter. If it has an external fuel filter, which I don't know anything about your specific car. Some vehicles only have a fuel filter in the fuel tank.

-Using a cleaner like Techron is USUSALLY ok. Techron probably has the best 'name' as any of them. Add it to the recommended amount of gas in the tank, don't overload it. The cleaner COULD, in high concentrations, and in some vehicles eat up the electrical winding in the fuel pump, which in most vehicles is in the gas tank and is covered by gasoline.

-In general, all gasoline is 'required' by government regulations to contain an appropriate amount of 'cleaner'. Years and years ago, when fuel injections first came along, there were injector problems. After the gov reg went into effect, there are very few true 'dirty injector' problems. Now injectors can wear out and leak or not open, etc, but deposits are pretty much a thing of the past.

If you don't know what a fuel filter looks like, where in general they are located, and some idea about how they are replaced, or someone with this knowledge can help you, I don't recommend you attempt this. The fuel to start with is probably still under presssure, when a filter is removed it it usually 'downhill' from the tank - both of these mean there could be with a bit of gas escape. And gas leaks are dangerous.

By any chance is your 'check engine light' on? If so, there are many other things that could be wrong rather than bad injector or clogged fuel filters.

adam20

Try STP Complete Fuel System cleaner...works miracles on most stuttering issues and actually turned off a check engine light on my MX6. Light had been on for almost 3 years.

twitme

Hi there.

I've got a 2001 4cyl mazda 626 with 88k miles. For the past year the vehicle has intermittently failed to start in warm weather, generally when the vehicle has been running for a while, shut off, and [attempted to be] started again, anywhere from just a couple mins to 45 mins after it was shut off. It performed flawlessly in less than 50 degree farenheit weather, but once it got warm again, the problem returned.

What happens when I try to start the car is that it will fire a few times, sounding like it's going to start. Sputter a bit then die. I can try a couple more times, get a few sputters, then nothing. And after a few attemps all I get is starter rotation with no ignition (possibly flooding the engine?).

It almost* always starts when it's been off for an hour or two.

So far I have taken the vehicle to 4 different shops including two mazda dealerships but to no avail. None were able to reproduce or troubleshoot the problem since it is intermittent and never occurred while the car was in the shop.

Here is what I have replaced so far:
Plugs
Wires
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pressure Regulator (x2)
Fuel tank sensors of some sort. I wasn't involved in this repair so I don't know exactly what was replaced, but it had no affect on the problem.

One potentially valuable piece of information is that the fuel pressure regulator has gone bad twice in two years. So I can only suspect that something else in the vehicle is causing the pressure regulator to fail. Could anyone tell me what components could possibly cause damage to this part? Any ideas what else could be wrong?

thank you.

shelley2

Is there any way I can adjust the fuel mixture myself on my Ford Escort? I believe it to be running too rich, its ok for the first 3 miles of the journey or until its warm, then it starts jerking and missing, have replaced air filter, cleaned plugs, checked HT leads and am not sure which way to turn the screw to make mixture weaker, but I think it is clockwise. All garages near me are busy for 3 weeks and have no free slots.

fuelsaver1

I bought a '93 Corolla and later noticed an intermitent buzzing sound coming from under car....seems like a fuel line/pump source..and now the car smells like gas all the time. I am afraid to drive it....please give advice as to how to locate possible leak or problem with fuel line or pump.

connie5

My 2006 XJ8 has had two fuel pump failures, gasoline pours from top of pump onto ground. Very serious situation. has anyone had similar problems

Mr_Shiftright

Since this is a new car, you might want to cut and paste your question into our Jaguar XJ Series topic.

Host

dtownfb

I'm planning to change my fuel filter on my 2000 3.5L Olds Intrigue. I know where the filter is located (driver side near rear tire) and know the process on how to change it. My only concern is getting sprayed with gas. I have heard conflictign ways of de-pressurizing the fuel line. Can anyone tell me the correct way to de-pressurize the fuel line?

Thanks

bolivar

Do it outside.

Don't smoke.

Wear safety goggles.

Just get sprayed.

Take a bath.

A greater problem might be fuel continuing to leak out while you are replacing the filter. The filter is usually 'downhill' from the fuel tank. Have a short stubby pencil available and jam this into the 'upstream' fuel line to stop the flow.

smokey75

Most cars have a fuse dedicated to the fuel pump. Pull that & then let the car run until it dies. Then turn it a couple more times.

dtownfb

I was hoping for a better option then that but thanks bolivar.

dtownfb

Like your suggestion better smokey75. Thanks

tomd17

My 2001 Subaru Forester shuts down when I let up on the gas to turn off the highway after a 5 mile drive; following a no problem start up in 35F below weather. It will start up in about 5 to 10 minutes., with no problems. It starts and runs great;other than this. Help!

lle672

My 1993 Geo Prizm almost ran out of gas the other day and ever since it hasnt run right. It almost seems like it is only running on 3 cylinders and then my check engine light came on. Inside my car now has a strong smell of gas.I checked the light and it gave me a code 25. What could this be? Im at a loss here. Please help!

terry06julie

I just bought a fixer-up truck and am having problems figuring out why it won't run. When I first bought it, I was able to drive it to my house. Then it started to sputter and would die. Now I am only able to turn it over for a few seconds and then it dies. I thought that maybe it was because the engine wasn't getting any fuel, but I checked the injectors and they seemed to be fine. Do you have any other suggestions to what I should check for and do?

smokey75

One possibility is that by running the fuel tank level all the way to bottom it drew up the sediment at the bottom of the tank and clogged your fuel filter.

cfreeland

I have a 1986 chevy s10 blazer 4wd 2.8lt
and when i start it and get going about 2 miles down the road it wont go the engine will still run but no matter how hard i press the gas pedal it will just roll and the engine wont even rev when it does like this and if i leave it setting for about an hour it will crank right back up and will go and eventually do the same thing i just put in a fuel filter and a fuel pump in it i dont now whats wrong with it can someone please help me

whodafknos

Can any one email me with links on the correct fuel injection system for this van,there was a change in 2001 and i need info on weather it is a spider injection with 1 injector or 6 injectors I do have the vin handy :confuse:

deac41

I own a 91 Ford Escort GT. I've had the car for about 9 years and it has over 200,000 miles on it. A while back I noticed the smell of gasoline inside the car everytime I would fill up the tank. Recently, I noticed a recall on the car that may explain the problem:

1991 FORD ESCORT FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE
Recall Date: 08/19/1992

Summary:
FATIGUE CRACKS CAN DEVELOP IN THE SOLDER JOINT BETWEEN THE FUEL RETURN TUBE AND THE FUEL PUMP SENDING UNIT LOCATED AT THE TOP OF THE FUEL TANK.

Consequence:
SHOULD A CRACK DEVELOP, FUEL VAPOR CAN ESCAPE FROM THETANK WHEN THE TANK IS FULL, AND A SMALL AMOUNT OF FUEL CAN LEAK FROM THE CRACK.FUEL LEAKS CAN RESULT IN FIRE WHEN EXPOSED TO A SOURCE OF IGNITION.

Remedy:
INSTALL A NEW FUEL PUMP SENDING ASSEMBLY.

Potential Units Affected: 22000

I called a local dealer and he said that the recall was no longer showing up for my car and had probably expired. He quoted me $325 for labor and $232 for parts to fix the problem.

The ford website, however, says that recalls for safety purposes never expire in most cases. So my questions are:

1. Should the dealership still be required to fix this recall and its just not showing up due to an oversight?

2. If they aren't required to perform the work and since I would rather not put close to $600 dollars into the car right now, would not filling the tank up all the way eliminate any danger or is the car unsafe to drive with the problem?

0patience

Yes, recalls expire.
And beings that your vehicle is 16 years old, it is pretty likely that the recall has been done.

1. Should the dealership still be required to fix this recall and its just not showing up due to an oversight?

No. It is a 16 year old vehicle. It was the responsibility of the owner to get the recall taken care of. The manufacturer makes every attempt to inform the owners of all safety recalls, even after the vehicle has changed hands.

2. If they aren't required to perform the work and since I would rather not put close to $600 dollars into the car right now, would not filling the tank up all the way eliminate any danger or is the car unsafe to drive with the problem?

No!! Absolutely not!!
If you can smell fuel in the interior of the vehicle, it is unsafe to drive. PERIOD!

Now, that being said.............
Park the vehicle on a flat surface. Put a few large pieces of cardboard on the ground under the vehicle, with all the windows open, start the vehicle and let it idle a while, with you OUT of the vehicle. 10 minutes should do it.
CAUTION!!: Extreme fire danger. Keep fire extinguisher on hand
Look for any spots that show up on the cardboard.
If a spot shows up, look for your leak above that spot.

One thing to quickly check, under the hood, on the engine there is the fuel pressure regulator.
See this image
There is a vacuum hose attached to the regulator (it isn't shown attached in the image)
Pull the vacuum hose off and see IF it is wet with fuel inside the hose and smells like fuel. IF it is wet or smells bad with fuel, then the regulator diaphragm has ruptured.

If it has ruptured, replace the regulator, change the oil and filter and road test to confirm the fuel smell is gone.
If it is not, then you have another problem too.

If that isn't the problem, then let us know and we'll try to help more.

deac41

Thanks for the reply...I took ownership of the car 9 years ago and never received any recall information. So perhaps my vehicle was not one of the ones affected by the recall in the first place and it makes sense to examine other potential problems. The car is in the shop now for a new power steering pump, when I get it back Thursday I'll check it out like you suggested and get back to you.

The gasoline smell occurs only right after I completely fill the tank. If I were to only fill up 3/4ths of the way, there is no smell. Also, if I were to drive 15 or 20 minutes to a destination, park it and get back in 30 minutes to an hour later, the smell would be gone. Does that help pinpoint the problem any?

0patience

It sounds like you may have one of two problems.
Either the filler hose is cracked or worn through or the tank may have a hole in it.

deac41

I put down cardboard underneath the car and let it idle for 10 minutes and then saw no evidence of a leak. I tried it again and still got nothing. So I took it to my mechanic.

He popped the back seat up and looked at the fuel pump, which is located directly under the seat in my car. There was a noticeable vapor smell but little evidence of a leak. After closely inspecting it, we found a couple of drops on one of the sending assemblies that connects to the pump. He recommended simply cleaning it and applying some 2 part epoxy to try to reseal it.

He said the only other option was to replace the fuel pump, but that he didn't think it was dangerous at all to drive as is, much less after applying the epoxy. He said the seat would need to be off and some one would have to light a lighter for it to be a problem.

That said, I think I'll just stop by the store and grab some epoxy and fix it up this weekend. Thanks for your help!

0patience

Not to disagree with your mechanic, but......
Any time you smell fuel in the passenger compartment, fire is not always the concern. Be aware that fuel vapors can over come you with out you realizing it and it doesn't take much.

And I'll be honest, I always have a concern when epoxy is part of the cure.
NAPA has replacement pump assemblies for about $100.
Since you don't know why the pump is leaking, how are you gonna know where exactly to epoxy?
If you don't get the leak, then what?
Are you gonna pull the pump to epoxy it? If so, then why not replace the pump and be done with it.

Cause I gotta tell you, my money is betting that after you make the epoxy repair, failure of the pump isn't too far off, especially if it is the original pump.
Just my opinion.

sidlevar

I have a 2003 mazda protege5 2.0 DOHC NO TURBO. The check engine light came on one day and it read that it was running lean and had a miss fire in cyl 1. changed the wires and plugs and the light went off for a day or two. Light now just reads with running lean. I am preparing to change the fuel pump/filter (my understanding is that in this car they are the same... if not then i am changing the fuel filter which requires to pull the pump) in hope that the filter is clogged and restricting gas. I have run a lucas injector cleaner through my system and have been using a higher octane gas to help as well but im just not sure what else it could be.

only other things i can think of are 02 sensor and maybe my injectors. Car has 113k miles on it for information sake.

Thanks for any help with this it will be appreciated.

sb533023

I had to replace the original fuel tank on my 85 Tercel last year due to a small crack on the topside of the tank. I also replaced my fuel gauge sender unit located in the tank. (I gauged fillups by my travelling odometer.) No problems until the new tank cracked where one of the straps lays across it to hold it in place. I also noticed that my car missed quite a bit when the tank fuel level was getting low, so I replaced my fuel pump (original) when I replaced the tank. (The pump is mounted to the side of the engine and works off the cam shaft rotation.)

Everything was great until I got to about 1/4 of a tank showing in the tank and the car "ran out of gas." It just hesitated and died while going down the interstate and wouldn't re-start. And it wouldn't re-start until I put about 5 gallons of gas in and the gauge reached about 1/2 full. I even primed the carburetor after putting a couple of gallons in and it started, but once the fuel in the carburetor was burned up, it died.

I filled it back up and ran it again until it once again ran out of gas at a little less than 1/4 tank. And again, it took about 5 gallons for the car to start and run.

I'm puzzled by why the car runs out of gas with 1/4 tank still showing (and the mileage on the travelling odometer verifying that I can still go another 75 or so miles) and why it takes 1/2 of a tank for the car to start again. Does it have something to do with the new fuel pump that I put on with the second new tank? (The fuel pump was one from a discount auto parts store and not an OEM part from Toyota.) Could I have installed it incorrectly?

Mr_Shiftright

I think first thing you'd have to do is to verify if there really is 1/4 of gas in the tank when you "run out" of gas or if it is indeed empty. Without knowing that, the rest of your diagnoses could be faulty and/or costly.

If the tank is really empty, problem solved...your fuel gauge in the tank is either defective or the wrong type, etc. If the tank really has 1/4 tank of fuel left, then you'd have to explore the fuel pump's pickup tube...maybe it has one of those ribbon filters that's plugged up? You can also test fuel pressure in the fuel line.

The fact that you can start by priming the carburator but not continue to start the car suggests a complete lack of fuel flow--so it's a question of why---clogging, defective pump, defective fuel pressure regulator, or....no gas in the tank.