Toyota Prius MPG-Real World Numbers

micheals

You might want to get some experience and some information from a large portion of Prius Drivers before you start making absolute judgments about what the mileage is or isn't and the most effective method for the Prius.

The fact is, that some Prius drivers do attain the EPA estimates and even surpass these estimates. There are some city commutes in which it is difficult for people to hit the estimates and others commutes where it may be easy to hit the estimates. My average for city driving is between 55 and 60, with my work commute of 10 miles at speeds of 35-45 generally gets above 60 mpg. No special techniques, just driving the speed limit or slightly above and coasting up to red lights.

To speak to your questioning of getting up to speed and letting off the accelerator to turn off the IC engine: This can be an effective strategy to use, as the car will decide if it needs the IC or not. One can only use the battery for a short distance at a time (maybe 3-4 miles at a time), but if you are coasting up to stoplights and such, you will be regaining some of the energy to be put back in your battery. Now it generally isn't the best method to try and make the car go into electric mode and continually deplete the battery if you aren't able to use regen to recharge the energy you are using.

Still, the most effective technique for mileage (the one that netted the 120 mpg tank) is the pulse and glide method, in which one does try to get the IC engine to turn off (but also involves much more than that).

mithrandir

Although people say the pulse and glide method is "best" for boosting mileage, are you ever charging the batteries when you are in pulse and glide mode? You likely aren't touching the brakes...or does extra power from the IC go into charging the batteries?

It seems to me that the fairest way to calculate Prius mileage is to account for the charge state of the batteries. Of course, this is not something you can easily determine in an repeatable, accurate manner.

The batteries will drain to empty, hypothetically at least, under some of these fuel extending techniques. Eventually the batteries will have to be recharged but this fact goes unsaid when you calculate mileage simply by dividing gallons consumed into miles driven. Only long-term mileage results, then, will provide reasonable statements of actual mileage, not tank by tank results.

midnightcowboy

Good one, but you delivered it 7 days too soon! Happy April Fools

john1701a

> If you run a certain route in a way that makes the IC stay on this should not give you worse fuel efficiency than running the same route in the battery only mode because at the end of this stretch the IC engine has to do work to recharge the battery.

If recharging were continuous and at a steady rate, that logic would indeed be accurate. But in reality, the recharging varies so fast and so often that on-paper calculations are pretty much impossible. Witnessing the energy flow arrows change 20 times per minute is quite common... which isn't even remotely close to your assumption.

To further complicate the understanding, you also have to take into account that the engine is run at a RPM more efficient than usual. It's a gain that the PSD (Power Split Device) can exploit, but a traditional automatic transmission cannot.

JOHN

micheals

I am by no means a pulse and glide expert as I don't even try that technique. I would think there would be some draining of the battery, but this may also be made up partially while coasting up to lights, stops, etc.

However, the Prius batteries will never drain to empty, unless perhaps it is driven with no gas until the battery is completely drained (which can cause damage to the battery). Under any other driving circumstances, the software works to keep the battery within a very narrow range of battery charge(I believe it is between 40%-80%). The battery by itself is only good for a couple of miles, so it will be charged and recharged many many times on a 400+ mile tank. Plus, if you stop for the night with a relatively low battery, the next mornings warm-up cycle(within the first five minutes of driving) will often charge it back up to the "normal" charge . So the idea of the mileage going siginficantly down when recharging the battery has little merit.

The only thing that really does influence the individual tank mpg is the effect of the gas bladder in the Prius. This can (but doesn't always) widely skew the calculated miles driven/gallons.

jim314

I really didn't understand how the Prius works and so I was bound to write some wrong things. However, I was trying to use basic physical reasoning to discuss what I thought was possible versus what I thought was impossible.

The parallel would be evaluating the claim that a certain complicated device was a "perpetual motion machine" based on involved drawings, equations, and written description. Most people nowadays would say you don't have to go through all the details to conclude that a given device will not run indefinitely without outside energy. I really did think that some of the practices which were claimed to produce a very high mpg were the equivalent of the techniques invoked in the claimed perpetual motion machines of earlier times.

When people actually did present actual machines that appeared to be able to run indefinitely, they were always found a have a hidden power source. So I thought it possible that not accounting for battery drain over a limited time period could give a falsely high mpg figure which some people could attribute to a special driving technique.

The fact that I myself have never experimented with a Prius means that my thoughts on the matter are casual musings. But a neighbor has one and he tells me he gets in the mid 40s mpg, not 60. Also I understand that the EPA is considering adopting a new mpg test in which the Prius and other hybrids don't get as high a city mileage estimate. I was just trying to reconcile all these facts.

I have this question about the behavior of the Prius: If you a traveling for a prolonged period at a constant speed of say 40 mph with the a/c off will the IC engine cycle on and off?

usbseawolf2000

"If you a traveling for a prolonged period at a constant speed of say 40 mph with the a/c off will the IC engine cycle on and off?"

Yes, depending on the horsepower requirements. For downhill, ICE would shut off. For incline hills, requesting more than 16 hp will turn the ICE on. The reason is that Atkinson cycle ICE efficiency drops below 36% (still better than Otto cycle optimal efficiency) thermal efficiency for making less than 16 hp. The HV battery is there to fulfill that power.

Dennis

jim314

The way I understand it in the Atkinson cycle the intake valves remain open at the start of the compression stroke resulting in backflow of part of the charge into the intake manifold. The result is that even though the nominal compression ratio of the Prius is over 13:1, the absolute pressure at TDC is below the knocking threshold. In effect the compression ratio is less than 13. But during the subsequent power stroke the expansion ratio is the full 13:1 so the cycle is more efficient.

What I don't get is what happens to the fuel in that part of the intake charge that is pushed back into the manifold. Does it just go into the next cylinder in the firing order? Does this mean that there is always some fuel in the intake manifold upstream of the injectors? Would direct injection significantly improve the fuel handling in an Atkinson cycle engine, or would this not be worth the expense of the direct injection system?

What exactly is the effective compression ratio in the current Prius?

usbseawolf2000

Most of your answers could be here.

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/tech/environment/ths2/engine.html

I got 51.6 mpg in my last tank. Mostly highway miles at 60-75 mph on LIE. I also make short trips for lunch with 3-4 adults. This is with less than 1k on my ODO and breakin initial oil. Very impressive.

Dennis

jim314

I read a lot of this and intend to read more. Toyota has done a terrific job on this vehicle. The American manufacturers have just been content to make their money on gas guzzlers.

micheals

It is understandable that someone is still learning about the Prius, it is complicated vehicle and can be hard to find to experiment with. I responded again your post as I did because it was not clear that your thoughts were casual musings as saying a car never or a person must take into account something.

Your neighbor's city experience is by no means invalid, just as my experience in the city is not invalid. However, both are just one set of driving conditions that may or may not be representative of many other people's driving conditions. The best way to get an idea is to look at the user mpg on www.fueleconomy.gov or the database at www.greenhybrid.com

To tack onto usbseawolf's answer, the battery wouldn't last more than a few miles at a steady 40mph and the IC engine would cycle on and off to help recharge it. In addition, the IC might cycle on and off to keep the cat converter warm to lower emissions, so sometimes the engine will kick on just for that (see it a lot more frequent in cold temps). Good luck on your searching for information!

looking4prius

Now that I have finished my third tank of gas, I have some 'real world mileage' under my belt. First tank, 45 mpg. Second tank, 51 mpg. The miles travelled are about 2/3 highway and 1/3 surface street, although the highway mileage has been occasionally slower than surface streets! It seems that I get better mileage on the highway, though...

Had the opportunity to test out how long the battery wouuld last. I was stuck in traffic at no faster than 7 mph (no A/C, stop&go, stealth mode only). After about two miles the ICE started to charge things up when the battery was below 50%.

jim314

What I want to know is if the ICE would cycle on and off when the vehicle was being driven at a constant but efficient highway speed say 65 mph. Or would the ICE just stay on in that case?

looking4prius

What I want to know is if the ICE would cycle on and off when the vehicle was being driven at a constant but efficient highway speed say 65 mph. Or would the ICE just stay on in that case?

Well, I happen to have driven @ 65mph on the freeway in cruise control, so I can tell you what I have seen. At 65 mph, the ICE is running and the realtime MPG is below 50 when I am going up a hill. When going downhill (even a slight grade), the real-time MPG is sometimes 99.9, sometimes around 75, and occasionally lower. I cannot hear the ICE running in either case, but it is a quiet little engine and it most likely is running. But I am not the best source of information as I have only had my Prius for a month or so.
I have read elsewhere on this board that the maximum speed that the electric motor alone can move the car is around 40 mph.

jrct9454

At freeway speeds, the gasoline engine is always "on"; fuel flow may be shut off completely on a long downhill stretch, but that's true for most fuel-injected engines [thus the 99.9 mpg reading - our friend's Passat reads the same way under the same conditions - it just means the EFI has determined no fuel is needed]...but the engine is not shut off the way it can be at lower speeds and at stops. I don't know the speed threshold where the ICE becomes continuously enabled - I too have read the 40 mph figure, but ours has never been shut off above about 20 mph.

midnightcowboy

Except the hypermilers who push in the clutch (or put the auto in neutral)and turn off the engine! so that it can really , really Coast!

micheals

I'm not sure that any of the Prius hypermilers are doing that. From what I understand, at speeds above 42mph, the ICE is always "on" in that it is at least spinning. I can't remember exactly why, seems like it may have been to maintain oil pressure or to keep the CVT from messing up by switching to the engine at high speeds. So at highway speeds, the engine is always on, even if not necessarily consuming a measurable amount of fuel.

cheryl06prius

I've had my '06 Prius for just over a month and love it but have a qustion i'm hoping someone can answer.

My real time MPG indicator generally reads between 51-53 mpg and i've attempted to verify its accuracy by capping the tank to the same precise level.

I've found this to be difficult as the gas sometimes splashes out before it is visible in the filler pipe, other times it doesn't.

Does anyone have an opinion of the accuracy of the computer based upon their own experience?

midnightcowboy

You are right the ICE is always on above 43 mph. On the highway when the traction battery is fully charged, the ICE spins the MG2 to produce eletricity which then bypasses the traction battery to power MG1 acting as a moptor to provide power to the wheels through the planetary gearing ( or Power Transport as John1701A likes to call it).

This is a double conversion of energy and energy conversion is never ever 100% efficient.

ICE >MG2>MG1> wheel Power

much more effcient to go

ICE > wheel power

While not considered a full hybrid, the Honda IMA system is more efficient on the highway. The newer HCH with CVT can run in electric only mode under limited conditions and acts closer to a full hybrid.

Many hypermilers like to push in the clutch or shift to neutral and truly turn off the engine on highway glides. This is hard to do with the Prius or any Toyota HSD system.

Cheers,

MidCow A Shifting Man

P.S. - The ICE doesn't run to maintain oil pressure or keep the CVT from messing up

john1701a

You've got the MG1 & MG2 backwards.

The Honda IMA might be more "efficient" on the highway, but that does not necessarily translate to higher MPG. The difference in pumping cycle and engine size influence MPG too, not just energy transfer.

As for keeping the "CVT from messing up", your reply was rather misleading. The engine spins at the higher speeds to allow the components within the PSD to run at slower RPMs. A higher RPM won't mess up anything, but is not the best operational choice either since things like excess heat would be unwanted.

JOHN

john1701a

Let's not forget voltage either.

Honda uses the battery feed directly. Toyota converts it to AC then boosts it up. That increases reduces losses in transfer. The higher operating voltage is an efficiency advantage over the competition.

JOHN

jrct9454

I've been trying to avoid overfilling, for all the usual reasons [the most serious of which is screwing up the charcoal emissions evap cannister]; after the pump clicks off, I round up to the nearest dollar or $1.50, but no more.

Using this method, the manual calculations and the computer have been within 3% of each other, which is about as close as you're going to get. Conclusion: don't obsess about it - the computer is very close, about as accurate as any of these things I've ever owned. With our MB, the computer was always at least 7-10% too optimistic; my results with the Prius are much closer to matching.

midnightcowboy

Only because it can use smaller wires because of less current (Amperage). Power= Voltage*Current

midnightcowboy

Okay MG1 and mG2 backwards. Still invoolves the energy converison loss I mentioned.

IMA higher effiecinecy on highway, equal power Insight= better mileage. Other Hondas more power, more performance. See the Lexus hybrids for an HSD exmaple.

Not really misleading, the previous person thought the purpose of the MG1 and MG2 needlessly spinning on the highway was to keep the CVT from messing up. Actually it is a planetary gear system and the gears always spin. "PSD" TLA(Three Letter Acronym) Power Split Device is Toyotas fancy name for a planetary gear sytems that spins Gears, the MG1 has a gear, the MG2 has a Gear and the wheel drive gear inside a sun plantary gear).

You specifically said "The engine spins at the higher speeds to allow the components within the PSD to run at slower RPMs." You really appear to be confused :confuse: This just doesn't make sense, spinning the negine at higher speeds burns more gas. The actually goal of most CVTs is to run the engine at the most efficient RPM which is usually the torque curve peak and to vary the ratio as needed. This does not mean that the purpose is to run at higher speeds to allow the other components to run at lower speeds; just doesn't compute! The HSD(Hybrid Sunery Drive) another Toyota coined term LOL is a pretty remable systme. It is a simple transmission and it utilizes a planetary gear in a unique way. The only downfall is that since the gears are always connected and must spin all the time, there is highway inefficiency because of double enegry conversions and the subsequent energy conversion losses.

Motor On,

MidCow

looking4prius

I came here to get information, and thanks to John1701a and even MidCow, I got what I needed. What I don't need is the bickering. You guys have a good one, and drive safe. :shades:

'06 Prius Seaside Pearl
Package #3
So California

kdhspyder

Actually dont try to topoff the fuel tank. As you may know you have a bladder inside the tank to reduce evaporative emissions. The quantity inside the bladder and the fuel indicator are not exactly precise. Essentially if you fill up and the pump shuts off then just leave it that way.

On some tanks my trip meter reads 51 mpg and I put only 9.2 gal in when the fuel light is on and other times I've had it read 51 mpg and put nearly 10.5 gal in. Over a lot of data entries your 'true' FE will come to the mean.

jim314

People do have differences of opinion. If the question was important enough for you to ask it, and for other people to spend their time formulating answers, then it's not unexpected that there could be disagreements.

The disagreements in this case were civil, at most expressed in a genially sharp exchange. They were not bickering. And even if you thought they were, it's not good form to publicly castigate people who were helping you gratis.

wmc3

Hi. I am currently a Honda Accord driver and am looking at the Prius. I read an interesting article the other day where the author was amused that we have to strictly cost justify a hybrid car's price by gas savings dollars. He rhetorically asked if people cost justify their sun roofs, or extra fancy stereos, or ... etc. IMHO, we buy sun roofs because they appeal to us. I am also looking at the Prius because it appeals to me -- I like the idea of decreasing the world's reliance on petroleum -- one person at a time. I like the idea of decreasing the world's pollutant emissions -- one person at a time. I am willing to spend a few dollars to do this and certainly do not feel that I am a hero in doing so, just doing what we will all have to do some day to save the planet.

seeko

hi there.you put your message out there in very good way.. see ya pete=seeko

fastbutslow

DRIVE IT LIKE AN ORDINARY CAR? THE PRUIS AND ANY OTHER VEHICLE ON THE ROAD ARE ALL CARS. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. I DRIVE MY ORDINARY CAR PRETTY LIGHTLY AND ACHEIVE 40 MPG IN THE CITY. I THINK ANY TOPIC THAT INCLUDES HOW TO INCREASE YOUR FE SHOULD BE WORDED SO THAT IT APPLIES TO ANY VEHICLE.

fastbutslow

PEOPLES LIVES??? PEOPLE ENDANGER THEMSELVES WHEN THEY GET INTO A VEHICLE!!! IF YOU DON'T LIKE US DRIVING SLOW THEN GO ELSEWHERE. DID YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT YOUR POST BEFORE YOU WROTE IT? SPEED LIMITS ARE FOR THE MAXIMUM SPEED YOU ARE ALLOWED, NOT THE SPEED YOU SHOULD DRIVE. THAT MEANS ANYONE CAN DRIVE SLOWER IF THEY WANT TO. 100 YEARS AGO YOU WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT 40 MPH WAS LIKE. AT TIMES LIKE THIS I ALWAYS THINK OF ALABAMA AND THEIR SONG "I'M IN A HURRY."

stevedebi

"SPEED LIMITS ARE FOR THE MAXIMUM SPEED YOU ARE ALLOWED, NOT THE SPEED YOU SHOULD DRIVE. THAT MEANS ANYONE CAN DRIVE SLOWER IF THEY WANT TO."

Not true. Like many states, my home state of California has laws that forbid driving so slow as to impede traffic.

BTW when you use all CAPS people THINK YOU ARE SHOUTING. You are lucky; I generally do not read all caps postings, since I consider them rude. But I thought perhaps you were just unaware.

priusguy

hi all (no caps )... just traded in my 05 on the barcelona red 06. I put 24.4k miles in 9 months, did 51 fillups and mfd avg was 49.0 and calculated was 47.2. i generally round to next dollar when filling up and never had a fuel spill in the 51 fillups. on the new car, i'm on my 2nd fillup and getting 53+ avg (it's warmer now and in break in mode trying not to exceed 60mph and driving very gently). my "old" prius had a cedk (close encounter of the deer kind) and along with the tax credit and improvements for the '06 felt it made good sense to trade in.

mariab1

i know this is an old post, but it is relevent. I live in alaska where EVERYONE drives a huge truck, and many get pissed at me for driving my '02 Prius at the most fuel efficient speed, which also happens to be the speed limit. I get lots of middle finger waves and I just wave back, with all of my fingers and a smile. If people want to be stupid, fast drivers, waste gas and risk one of the many hazzards of alaska driving, including moose on the freeway- in town- it's not my problem. Don't let angry, auto aggressive gas hogs push you around. The car is a place where people tend to express their pent up anger, and that's no one's problem but their own. Yes, it is dangerous, but just keep it slow, and it's not as dangerous to you. Those of us who care about fuel economy and the enviornment can choose to encourage a driving culture which is slower, more aware and infinatly more relaxed. Lets do it.

gagrice

slowing down should be encouraged, not derided as dangerous.

A couple comments. You mention the fact that most accidents during icy & snowy conditions are caused by poor driving. After 36 years in Alaska I agree. I do disagree with your opinion that going slower than the flow on the highway in good road conditions is your right. You would probably win the case in a court of law. Not in the court of public opinion. Whether you like it or not when you are on the highway you are part of a traffic pattern. If you choose to block traffic you become a hazard to yourself & those around you. You also present a poor image for the hybrid vehicle you seem to like. You will win more support for Prius and other hybrids by showing other drivers that the car is equal to the other vehicles on the road. Otherwise as they zoom around you and give you that evil gesture, they are saying those #%$#%$@ Hybrids. Also not pulling over to the side and letting 5 or more vehicles pass you is a violation of the law. Don't expect everyone to accept your way of doing things. You could move to Victoria BC. The speed limit is 90 KMH (56 MPH) and I found people to be very courteous drivers. The way I see it is you are part of a small contigency of drivers that believe you can slow people down by blocking their path. I think you are contributing to the already growing negative opinion of hybrid owners.

mariab1

here we have the age old argument : is a law mala en se (illegal because it is bad in and of itself) or is it mala prohibitum (illegal because it is prohibited by law or local custom)? traffic laws regarding speed are mala in se, because going too fast is bad in and of itself, for safety, enviornmental and reasons of international commerce. speed laws should not reflect what the majority is doing, because the majority is moving at an unsafe pace in their refusal to adhere to the rules of the road. the real problem here is that enforcement is lax and fines are too low. if law enforcement had the staff to enforce speed and other traffic laws, if fines reflected even a minimum of the pain and suffering that the loved ones of a deceased must endure, and if insurance rates went up even more for such unsafe driving, than not only would cities and states have an awesome source of finance, they would also have slower, safer, drivers. sedentary american drivers are too slow reflexed, have depth perception which is shallow because of staring at screens (tv, computer) all day, have short attention spans and are overly committed, angry and aggressive behind the wheel. the law should penalize them for this irresponsiblity, to slow poeple down, save lives AND gas.

mariab1

to be perfectly honest, i am not remotely concerned about people's percetions of hybrid drivers, i am concerned with the reality of aggressive driving on the roadways. i really don't care about people's perceptions of me or my vechicles type, as perceptions are based in historical context, and someone else's inability to discern between historical context and present reality (driving conditions) is not my problem. i go the speed limit most of the time, unless conditions dictate otherwise, and this is independant of people's selfish need to label hybrid owners as a this or a that in order to justify their self serving actions which pollute the enviornment, waste gas and endanger lives in order to arrive at their destinantions a few minutes earlier. if they need to get somewhere on time, they should depart at the proper time so that they can obey the rules of the road in transit. (i suspect that there is an element of lower cerebral function here as well, the lizard brain wants to dominate, and passing other cars is dominating...but that is only a guess. the obvious reverse argument here is that going slow is also dominating, it is, but it is dominating tempered by the frontal lobe...in that i am making choices based on complex surrounding conditions, not on a primal need to dominate [or on a need to adhere to unreasonable "court of public opinion"] ). i do know about the laws of allowing cars to pass in certain situations, such as on the seward highway, where too slow cars are a hazzard, and i agree with this. but this is not what i'm on about. i am talking about making driving a conscious act of technique and care, not an unconcious expression of a need for domination and irrational, unsafe control. if people think worse of me and other hybrid drivers for this reasonable unwilliness to be bullied into unsafety, fine. as for me, i will continue to see this prejudice for what it is: ignorance and self serving stupidity.

mariab1

oh yes, one more thing, hybrids will not be spoken poorly of for a whole lot longer, as they are the wave of the future. gas is going bye bye. prices will continue to rise, and in time, economics, not driving styles, will be the primary force in public opinion.

monogram7

Hey,

I don't even have my Prius yet... it comes in a couple of weeks. The reason I am buying it is not to give or to get any attitude. It is so my grand children inheret a cleaner world. Who gives a hoot what anybody thinks or does. That is there problem. I am just glad that I am one of the people who can afford to make a difference with this great car. Bill Z

fastbutslow

Not true. Like many states, my home state of California has laws that forbid driving so slow as to impede traffic.

BTW when you use all CAPS people THINK YOU ARE SHOUTING. You are lucky; I generally do not read all caps postings, since I consider them rude. But I thought perhaps you were just unaware.

sorry, i have to use capslock at work. My friend got a ticket for impeding traffic flow here in kansas so we must have that law also.

Slickwill, are you still getting FE in the 70's? Your driving style sounds like mine. My record in my 87 integra is 41 in the city and so I believe I can acheive above epa estimates in a prius also.

Jim 314, 13to1 compression is the static compression ratio. It is the number calculated when building the engine. Dynamic compression ratio is what the engine sees when running. It is a combination of the camshaft duration and static CR combined. I trust that toyota has investigated fuel puddling on the back of the intake valve and determined that it will not effect engine reliability.

Anyone else getting above epa estimates?

gagrice

sedentary american drivers are too slow reflexed, have depth perception which is shallow because of staring at screens (tv, computer) all day

I don't disagree with you on what you are saying here. I am trying to get across that when you are not going with the flow you are further taxing these poor drivers ability to respond. When they come around the curve at 70 MPH and someone is in their lane driving 55 MPH there is a problem. I don't know how long you have lived in Anchorage. But don't be surprised when some guy from the Valley crowds you off the Glenn Highway with his 3/4 ton beat up old crew cab PU truck. Alaska is still the Last Frontier.

PS
Be careful in that sub compact. I read where some fellow got killed on the Parks when he hit a moose. Took the top right off his small car.

stevedebi

"oh yes, one more thing, hybrids will not be spoken poorly of for a whole lot longer, as they are the wave of the future. gas is going bye bye."

Hmm, you better hope not. That hybrid you like so much won't run without gas.

cheryl06prius

I've expressed my thoughts on aggressive driving in previous posts-basically I drive at 60MPH in the right lane on interstates to conserve fuel and don't seethe with rage if someone blows past me at 80mph in the left lane although its clearly a waste of gasoline as well as potentially unsafe.

What concerns me is the tailgater and the lack of police enforcement. Whether I drive at 60mph in the right lane or 75mph in the left lane some driver will be behind me at 1 or 2 car lengths usually hoping to induce me to drive faster so they can pass as well as being the "rabbit" for police radar. If not they are preoccupied on the cell phone and too lazy to pass.

The police are too content to park in the median and use their radar to selectively pick off speeders. By "selectively" I mean they write the number of tickets needed to satisfy their superiors or to phrase it another way "meet their quotas". Once they meet this number their interest in speed enforcement diminishes. Ever wonder why use see officers on patrol using their cell phones? Ninety five per cents of these calls are personal and most officers aren't about to interrupt a personal call to pursue a traffic violator.

If they spent more of their time in motion instead of parked in the median they would be able to cite more tailgaters. When is the last time you heard of someone receiving a ticket for tailgating? Quotas should be required for tailgaters instead of speeders.Most chain reaction collisions involve tailgating by one or more drivers.

Until we have vigorous enforcement of tailgating laws we will never make a dent in changing the ingrained habits of the aggressive driver.

yardstick

Amen, sister! How often do you ever hear of someone being cited for tailgating, not stopping at a crosswalk, or not using a turn signal? These are all more potentially dangerous/fatal than speeding. I supposed it's easier for the police to sit back, aim their speed guns and pound donuts than it is to actually improve traffic safety!

gagrice

When is the last time you heard of someone receiving a ticket for tailgating?

Too hard to win in court. I think the obvious thing would be for the officer to cite the person impeding the normal flow of traffic. Much easier to determine than tailgating. It would be easy for an officer to determine that someone is a hazard if they are leading a string of traffic at a rate slower than the rest of the cars on the freeway.

As Lee Iacoco so aptly coined the phrase "Lead, follow or get out of the way".

cheryl06prius

I disagree with your assertion that a tailgating or Following Too Closely charge is "too hard to win in court" from the police standpoint. The wording of most state laws generally conform to Sec.1129(a) of the NY State Vehicle&Traffic Law which states "the driver of a motor vehicle shall not follow another vehicle more closely than is reasonable and prudent, having due regard for the speed of such vehicles and the traffic upon and the condition of the highway".

If a police officer can testify that a vehicle maintained a distance of one car length behind another vehicle traveling at 60mph in the right lane for a distance of two miles when the driver behind had an opportunity to pass even the most liberal judge would be hard pressed not to convict.

That is just one example, the wording of the statute is designed to allow for flexibility and applies to numerous types of scenarios.

As far as police ticketing drivers for driving so slow as to be "impeding the normal flow of traffic" I agree that if someone is hogging the passing lane by driving under the posted speed limit they should be ticketed.

But no way can you argue that driving at 5-10 mph under the speed limit in the right lane is a ticketable offense.

Also keep in mind that the state has the right to enact a linear minimum speed limit which is much easier to enforce than the "impeding the flow of traffic" type statute. Very few such speed zones exist.

But perhaps the most important point is that once the news media starts reporting that police are ticketing tailgaters it will have a strong deterrent effect.

gagrice

than is reasonable and prudent

First I agree that someone following closely when they have opportunity to pass in a left lane is wrong. The problem again in enforcement is "Reasonable & Prudent". What may be R&P to you or me may not be to someone else. I was always told it was one car length for every 10 MPH. The laws vary from state to state. Without out camcorder evidence it would be a waste of court time. A good attorney would get it tossed. Not like having a breath test or radar printout as evidence.

My concern with your thinking and a few others is the right to hold up even the right lane to further your cause. If traffic is heavy in all lanes and someone is in the right lane driving much slower than the rest of the lanes they are a hazard. There can be circumstances such as a heavy load or a malfunctioning car etc. To hold up traffic for personal gain or philosophy is not right. I have gotten behind a slow vehicle going up the Interstate when the traffic in the left lane was so heavy I could not pass. If it is a truck loaded down you take that into consideration. If it is a yokel trying to squeeze the last ounce of energy out of a gallon of gas they should be cited for impeding traffic. That is as much a hazard as tailgating.

Your method of traffic control is not winning converts to the cause. First if you remember the 1970s when 55 MPH was introduced to cut fuel consumption, it was a total waste of time and effort. Many states ignored the law and did not cite speeders. Time is money and until gas costs more than time, people will be in a hurry. My time is worth way more than $3, $4 or $5 per gallon. I will drive at the speed I feel comfortable, within the limits of the law.

jrct9454

...from an owner of an '06 Prius:

-Get the h--- out of the way. Don't want to "drive fast"? Fine. Stay to the right. And if you're going 75 in the left lane, and someone needs to pass, your obligation is to get to the right ASAP, not worry about what the police are or are not doing.

-I surely hope that the majority of our law enforcement types have more to worry about than enforcing artifically low speed limits. I'm just fine with the level of enforcement I see in most states most of the time.

I bought our Prius because it is a "Camry hatchback" wrapped up in a Corolla-sized package. The 40+ mpg [which is what I get driving it like every other car I've ever owned, which is a lot of cars, including performance imports] is a great bonus...but it's not a religion with me.

I believe in European driving rules - keep to the right except to pass, pass with efficiency and dispatch, and ALWAYS ASSUME that there will be someone behind you who wants to go faster, no matter what you drive. No eating, yapping on the phone, and no hogging of the passing lane to make points. The Prius is a great car that doesn't require a change in behavior to provide ownership rewards - all this flim-flam about a "Prius culture" just makes things worse, not better, for those of us who just want to enjoy the car's virtues without a long-winded political discussion.

In most states, you have an obligation [never mind the common-sense argument to do the right thing] to get out of people's way who want to pass you on a mult-lane road. Do us all a favor, especially your fellow Prius owners, and lose the temptation to be some kind of behaviorial vigilante.

gagrice

Do us all a favor, especially your fellow Prius owners, and lose the temptation to be some kind of behaviorial vigilante.

Amen, I could not have posted anything that says it better. Be green without making a scene.

devsienna

First I agree that someone following closely when they have opportunity to pass in a left lane is wrong. The problem again in enforcement is "Reasonable & Prudent". What may be R&P to you or me may not be to someone else. I was always told it was one car length for every 10 MPH. The laws vary from state to state. Without out camcorder evidence it would be a waste of court time. A good attorney would get it tossed. Not like having a breath test or radar printout as evidence.

While this may have been true back in the 60's/70's/80's, I think this no longer the norm. At least in California, the minimum safe following distance is now defined to be at least 3 seconds, with 4 or more seconds favored for adverse weather (fog, rain, snow, etc) or traffic/road conditions (tailgaters, road construction, accident, bad road, etc). 3 or 4 seconds being how long it takes for you to reach the spot where the leading car's bumper just passed.