Subaru's fortunes sinking - can they turn it around?

rsholland

Your frustration of "wanting it now" is shared by many here and elsewhere, including myself. Yes, FHI is a small company, and that does impact on what they can offer—but surely they can do a better job than what they've been doing.

The new WRX is a perfect example of misjudging customers. While I welcome what they did in terms of comfort, size, and styling (to a degree); the fact is is the car just doesn't generate the same excitement of previous generation WRXs—and that's a HUGE mistake on their part. I fully expect that to be corrected, but it may take a couple of years to do so—and that's flat out wrong. The car should have been properly dialed in from day one. This same complaint can be leveled against any number of new Subaru models. They've got to fix that!

If you or someone were to ask me (the owner of a '06 WRX Limited wagon) if I would prefer a new '08 WRX 5-door over my '06 wagon, I would have to think about it and would probably say, "I think so." That's not the correct answer. The correct answer should be, "Absolutely!"

Bob

nippononly

I was interested to note that in R&T's little retrospective this month on the '02-'06 WRX, they had a bunch of owner testimonials in there, which were very favorable to the old model. When asked if they would buy the '08, all of them said "no way. The new model is boring-looking and less fun to drive".

I think Subaru will lose many/most of the customers it had before for the WRX. It can only hope, then, to gain as many new customers among people looking for a more "mainstream" ride. It is some consolation that Mitsubishi did the same thing to the new Lancer and Evo, although from purely a styling standpoint, I have to say I would take the Lancer without a second thought of the Impreza.

And I will second dino's thoughts on the Impreza interior. Only I wouldn't be that accepting of it in a $17K car either, but I would accept it as an OK price to pay for the car's other positive attributes.

rsholland

I think the arrival of new Lancer, EVO and upcoming Ralliart is the best thing that could have happened to Subaru fans. Not because there's now a good-looking alternative to Subarus, but because it will wake Subaru product planners up from their apparent coma. These new Mitsubishi models will FORCE Subaru to act fast.

Bob

ateixeira

Well, owners that bought (and therefore liked) the 02-06 aren't exactly 100% unbiased. Plus Subaru is aiming to get new customers.

Despite all the miscues we discuss - look at the bottom line. Impreza sales are up every month since the new model came out. Some of those months hit all-time sales records for the model.

And this is with no all-weather package, no moonroof, no STI Limited, no WRX Limited.

From the glass-half-full point of view, they cut costs and increased sales.

When they inevitably add those options back, sales may increase even more.

Any how, I still say the Forester is gonna be the model that pays the bills, and early signs are very good:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20910788&postcount=718

That's in Japan but keep in mind Subaru sells more cars there than the do in the USA.

Credit Bob for the link.

kyfdx

I like the new model... I think where they've made a mistake is not increasing power..

It used to be that 227 hp in a small car was awe-inspiring.... Back in '02, the entry level BMW 3-series had a rating of 184 hp.. Today, it's 230 hp, and 227 just doesn't raise eyebrows the way it used to..

dino001

Excactly right - so instead of "small company" excuses they should get off their asses and keep up with the market that THEY created six years ago.

dino001

Are you saying it should be expected that new model brings lower sales? Of course sales increased. You have something brand new - there will always be enough those who had to be first on the block to sustain sales growth over last year of previous model. Better question is how long is that going to last. I give it another three months. Next year or one after that will be much more important: if increased value content will indeed keep sales on the same level, or would they drop.

And "biased" argument is simply ludicrous. How many previous generation owners of other brands/models would rather stay with their old car?

nippononly

"Well, owners that bought (and therefore liked) the 02-06 aren't exactly 100% unbiased. Plus Subaru is aiming to get new customers."

Yes, but not at the expense of all its old customers. There wouldn't be any point to that unless you significantly increase the customer base with the new customers alone, and I don't think there's anyone here or at SOA who thinks they will do that.

ateixeira

This new Impreza is doing better than the last new Impreza at its intro. Like I said, some months broke all-time records.

I give it anothere three months

At first the people who didn't like it said "I'll give it a month".

Sales have been good despite the doom-and-gloom predictions.

Despite all the controversy over the styling, they made key improvements to the basic chassis and structure. Windows are framed, it got a much more sophisticated rear suspension, a longer wheelbase, etc. All the basic DNA is improved. Side curtain air bags and VDC address the deficit in safety features, too.

Most of the remaining complaints are now an easy fix. Add an all-weather package. Add a moonroof. Add horsepower.

Pretty easy to add.

BMW was brought up, so think about this - they have changed their product cycle so that new engines are introduced not when a new product arrives, but rather staggered, to spark up interest on aging designs.

If the new WRX, blah as some people say it is, it lighting old sales records on fire, and they still have all those easy fixes up their sleeve, then Subaru is in good shape indeed.

Think about it.

ateixeira

You guys want it all now. That's the bottom line.

BMW didn't have the M3 ready at the 3 series launch. It came later.

Heck, the M3 sedan is still not out (is it?).

If you listen long enough to Edmunds enthusiasts, you would think that every person in the world wanted a de-contented Sport wagon that only came with a manual transmisison and had 700 horsepower.

Yet in the real world about 3 people would buy that.

I'd be one of them.

dino001

M3 is for 3-series like STI to Impreza. Everybody would agree we could wait for it. However, when introduced the Three, BMW did not forget about most important standard and optional convenience features. Adjusting for market segment, Impreza's lack of sunroof/leather would be comparable to no HID or Nav on the Three, option or standard.

BTW - I don't need 700 hp and I do want stuff. So STI is not for me - too much hp and too little stuff. And I do understand concept of small volume. But I would be willing to pay reasonable premium for it, e.g. would not mind same price like auto (usually about 1000 less).

ateixeira

NAV only comes with iDrive (no thanks), so I'd be going Garmin all the way. I heard plenty of packaging complaints about BMW as well (gotta get run flats with some models, for instance).

And even giants like Toyota limit your options or how you can combine them.

If Subaru held back a 2nd wave of WRX buyers will come when those features become avaible, and sales rise again, marketing classes will study how that was a stroke of genius.

nippononly

Speaking of NAV, what's the deal with the NAV package in the Impreza and WRX line? Looks like for about $1500, you can order the 2.5i with a premium package tha includes a much better stereo, but if you then go all out and splurge for the NAV, you go back to the very uninspiring base radio with 4 speakers? That's how it reads to me on the website, is that incorrect?

I may want it all NOW, but I wanted a moonroof (and a diesel/hybrid/high-FE powertrain option) ten years ago. Still haven't been able to wheedle one out of Subaru...and really, what is so darn hard about installing a factory moonroof????

rsholland

I don't buy it juice. Few people complain about the new STI, yet a whole bunch are complaining about the WRX.

Clearly Subaru product planners did a better job with the STI than they did with the WRX. Yes, Impreza sales are up, but my guess is most of the increase is due to increased 2.5i and OBS sales, not WRX sales. I'm not saying WRX sales are down—although they may be, as Subaru doesn't break out individual models.

It was a mistake for them not to offer a Limited in both the WRX and STI from day one. It was also a mistake for them not to increase the power on the WRX, even just a little.

You know me and Subaru. I, like a lot of others, are just fed up with their lousy product planning, and poor excuses. The 2008 WRX should be a car that I aspire to—but it isn't. Maybe the 2009 or 2010 model will be that car. I just find the '08 WRX to be extremely frustrating, as it could have been so much better with just a few tweaks. It might be fine for someone who has never owned a WRX, but it's not for existing owners. The new WRX has been universally criticized by the automotive media and WRX fans alike for losing its mojo. Do you honestly think they are all wrong?

Bob

paisan

Back when the 2002 WRX came out, it was ground breaking in that they brought over what was considered a cult car by tons and tons of Subaru owners, they broke ground in terms of Power + AWD + Turbo. If anyone really thinks that they will ever bring over a car that is as ground breaking as the original USDM WRX, that's just not going to happen, ever.

It will always be a letdown for people after that initial car. I'm sure there are folks in the DSM world who cry the same song about what the Eclipse now is, compared to the hey-day of the Eclipse GSX.

Having been in, around and a spent a 1,000 mile trip with a 2008 WRX Sedan 5mt w/updated grille during the 48hrs, I have to say it's a good solid car for the $. Ground breaking? Nope. But the passenger seat is significantly more comfy and roomy than the passenger seats of my legacy wagon, especially the front passenger one.

I'm sure we'll see tweaks filter through and the car will sell well. We'll get more power across the board. I also would not be suprised to see the wagon return with the next gen of legacy.

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

dino001

Mike - I agree that groundbreaking wasn't really possible. However, making a step back in product line and selection is simply ineexcusable - and the reason for it is so it doesn't cross some magic 30K and 40K lines. There is probably no other sub-30K (and sub-40) car that has no sunroof and leather options. I could understand the logic in STI (although I disagree with it), as it is sold on performance, not convenience content, but WRX WAS GOING FREAKING MAINSTREAM!!!! That was their whole theme and reasons for numbing steering, softening suspension, Sebring grille, etc. Please, please - show me MAINSTREAM car at this price point without those options. Just one.

Same with their interior - it would take a real effort to find equally uninspiring interior for $25K+. Even GM and Ford product at that price point is better looking inside (I can't believe I just said it).

There is simply no excuse. :lemon: :lemon:

paisan

I agree moonroof and leather should be options. No arguements there.

As for the grille, it's fixed in the optional one.

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

rsholland

I disagree. The new STI is not a disappointment, but the new WRX is.

I'm not looking for a groundbreaking car, just one that moves forward to some degree on all fronts from its predecessor. The new WRX, while clearly several steps forward in many areas, is also a step or two backwards in some key areas.

• No power increase over '07 model. Yes, I know the powerband has been improved.

• Skinnier tires than found on '07 model.

• No moonroof option

• Not as crisp in terms of handling as '07 model.

• No 5EAT option

• Front seats aren't as supportive as those on my '06 model.

• Rock hard sunvisors (mine are nicely padded)

• Some styling details are iffy at best (not impressed by the sport grille either).

For a model that is specifically defined by its performance, many of those items I listed should have been addressed in 2008, not 2009 or 2010.

Bob

ateixeira

I do think they could have tweaked the engine for more power, especially if the 2.5T is dropped from the Legacy and they go with the 3.6l H6 exclusively.

The timing was wrong on that one. I'm not sure if they just don't have the supply of 3.6l engines, or what. If they put that in the Legacy, then the WRX could get the Legacy GT's turbo.

I don't think the lack of the Limited models is a big deal because I know they'll have it next model year. There is enough demand for the base models that they haven't needed it yet.

When the Limited comes out, that will offer something new and fresh, probably next model year.

Maybe it's the fact that I am perfectly fine with having the aftermarket address things like leather seats and moonroof options. Seems like many aren't.

Frank swears the Katskins leather on his Forester XT is better than Subaru's leather. The moonroof on our Legacy has a one-touch feature to open or close all the way, and is programmable to close when you remove the key.

I guess some people just aren't into aftermarket upgrades. I am, so I look at the basic goodness of the car itself, not the toppings.

xhe518

Their new "corporate" grille is really bad...especially on the Tribeca...It looks just like a Chrysler at first glance..... I never really liked the original Tribeca B9 grille, but it least it had some character and didn't look like every other car on the road.

kyfdx

I have to disagree... almost anything is better than the old grill.. Especially on the Tribeca..

Yes, the new one is generic and boring... still better!!

ateixeira

Tribeca sales are up, so the public likes it better, FWIW.

dino001

I know - Impreza sales are up as a model overall. We established that. However Joe Spitz's site shows a whopping 1500-2500 lease cash incentive on WRX trims. This is huge, considering that outgoing Forester has just $500 ($1500 for X trim) plus financing and aging Legacy/Outback have 750-1500 plus financing. And by the way, other than 24-month Forester, the financing incentive isn't really that big ( the rates are reduced just couple of points vs commercial bank rates for top tier customers).

This tells me loud and clear WRX sales must be well below the target.They are not ready to admit that yet, hence the lease incentive, usually less widely published, definitely in terms of actual cash reduction (you usually get some low payment figure without big details). This is an obvious effort to pump out the stock without official admittance of a shortfall.

It seems the bleak projections are being fullfilled as we speak. People generally agreed here that 2.5i was a very good deal for the money, but most unhappiness came from WRX. It turned off the current base in hope of gaining wider audience, but 25-30 grand sticker can go only so far if you don't even offer conveniences that are considered basic at mainstream level of that price segment. Ralliart is only going to accelerate that deterioration.

ateixeira

Forester X models have had $2000 cash recently.

When it's cash plus low rates, it's hard to calculate the combined value of that incentive, but it's more than $2000.

Keep in mind that WRX went up compared to the outgoing models, too. And like you mention, there is a HUGE price gap between the 2.5i and the WRX, making the former a bargain.

rsholland

The incentives on the Forester make sense, as they're trying to clear out inventory to make room for the new model.

Bob

ateixeira

I know, it was just being compared to the WRX' incentives.

The 2003 Forester had incentives, as did the 2005 Legacy and Outback. As did the 2006 Tribeca, as did the 2008 Tribeca...

This falls under standard procedure, basically.

I do wish they would just set prices lower to begin with, perhaps even Scion style or the way Saturn does.

dino001

I think you're missing the point. There was no time for WRX to have $2500 cash incentive (like one on the premium pkg.) - other than perhaps last model year - and certainly not in the first model year. I had $500 dealer cash and 4% financing on my '03 and that was most I could hope for long time (essentially until last year) - not $2500.

2005 incentive on Legacy/Outback was not 2 grand from the get go. Plus it was after "upmarket move" fiasco, where the prices went up just too much.

When you say "they corrected the price" - that means they messed up their marketing research (if they even made one) big time. First year and over two grand "correction" ????

ateixeira

Yes, because setting the WRX price at $8 grand higher than the 2.5i was a mistake.

So yes.

nippononly

WRX price so high?

Didn't they have a basic model before that stickered under $25K? Seems like with the equipment it has (and considering that the drivetrain is unchanged from the '07) the base WRX NOW should be under $25K. Then with deals it would sell at around $22K. If it really has a $2K cash incentive right now than I guess that amounts to the same thing, but really, why not just skip the price increase for the '08 until they had some substantial updates to offer?

The 2.5i base and premium package are the deals of the Impreza line, no question about that. Even the OBS is getting into overpriced territory: more than $21K now for what is basically an Impreza Premium with 17" alloys (replacing 16" alloys on the Premium) and two-tone paint?

dino001

Base WRX (25K sticker) is like previous TR, Premium (27K+), is previous "base". They added standard VDC, reporteadly improved the sound system in premium, but removed rear LSD (there was a storming discussion about that), slimmed standard tires, put some cheaper parts into engine compartment (e.g. plastic manifold, steel hood, etc.). I see it a wash or close.

So they originally thought that minor engine tweak, new styling, new sponge suspension and granny steering, better (but still far from great and subpar for the price segment) interior design and a few things that Juice or Mike would be happy to point to you, were worth 2 grand. Apparently not so. So far the 1.5-2.5 grand is on the lease only, so there is no official admission of defeat, but I see regular customer cash coming soon. Perhaps not 2 grand for starters.

nippononly

If they are officially saying adios to the old WRX buyers and starting to chase more mainstream buyers, then they need to do a rush redo on the interior and make the "premium" stereo standard in the WRX. Those are the things that mainstream buyers will notice.

Do that, split the difference and start the car at $26K, and eliminate Premium Package, and they will have made a start on the road to increased sales I think. You have to think: the MS3 and GTI/Jetta GLI, not to mention the C30 2.0, are all at or below this price. All of them have a much much nicer interior, similar or increased power (and the VW has that instant-on torque from the 2.0T), and more features for the money. All WRX has is the AWD. Sure, AWD costs money, but it is not the mainstream in this segment, and if Subaru is chasing the mainstream with the new WRX, they will have to ante up or lower the price a ways.

dino001

Add Raliart (styling, features), MazdaSpeed3 (blows WRX away inside the cabin), base A3 (no leather at this price, but at 30K it has both leather and monroof - just no AWD and less power), or even SRT4 (more power, rivals WRX in cheapness inside, no AWD but lower price).

The segment is small, but very competitive - I just don't think Subaru noticed it's not '02. There is a lot they could do, but if they wait until 2010, it will be too late. They need summer intro of both "Special Edition" and "Limited" packages that would significantly increase content of both base and premium trims at something like few hundred bucks.

ateixeira

VDC offsets the lack of an LSD. The LSD was a viscous coupling, hardly worth crying about. It's not like it was a Torsen, like the Legacy spec.B gets.

In reality VDC is better because now both axles are managed. Before only the rear axle was managed, with the VC. On the track the viscous coupling was not useful. It was useful in snow, but VDC doubles that usefulness.

The "few things" that I'm happy to point out include the framed windows, the more sophisticated rear suspension, and the improvements to the interior.

People are making a big deal about 10mm narrower tires. Okey-dokey. That's about 1/3rd of an inch.

4EAT is lame, the only major fumble here. But nobody buys automatic WRXs, even in the USA they want manuals. Plus a CVT is on the way.

It's not so much the WRX letting us down, as much as it is the competition stepping up. Especially the MazdaSpeed3, which really only lacks AWD. The C30 doesn't come as a 4 door. The 4 door GTI is overpriced when you load it up. The R32 can't hang with the STI.

I'll comment on pricing in my next post, to maintain the threads...

nippononly

When I said MS3, I was referring to the Mazdaspeed 3, and yes I know it has a much nicer interior for less money. Forgot about the Lancer Ralliart, and of course there is ANOTHER one that dusts the WRX on value.

The real problem is that they updated the looks, the steering, and the suspension, and left everything else just about alone. And everything else wasn't really up to snuff any more even in '07. I agree with you: Subaru didn't notice that it's not 2002 any more. And of course, back in 2002 Subaru had only just got done noticing it wasn't 1995 any more.

BTW, I think the SRT4 doesn't just RIVAL WRX for cheapness inside, it far and away exceeds WRX on this count. OMG, I don't know why anyone buys that car with so many others in the same price range.

ateixeira

I tend to focus on street pricing.

I just looked and the 2.5i runs about $16-17k, with the Premium at $18k even with the automatic. That's the bargain, no doubt about it.

The OBS adds a roof rack, too, plus the wheels and the paint. About $19-20k. Given the mostly cosmetic upgrades, the 2.5i Premium is arguably the better value.

A WRX premium runs $26k right now. My guesstimate was right on - that is $8 grand more than the 2.5i Premium.

I love power as much as the next guy, but c'mon, that's insane. I could buy the 2.5i Prem and pay cash for my Miata ($7800 when I bought it), and have a spare sports car in my driveway.

So incentives for the WRX do not surprise me. They have PLENTY of wiggle room when they are an $8000 step up in price from the 2.5i Prem models.

Heck, they could toss in a $4000 incentives on the WRX Premium and still have the same profit margin as the value-priced 2.5i P.

nippononly

"It's not so much the WRX letting us down, as much as it is the competition stepping up."

But juice, all of these competitors we mentioned, except perhaps the new Lancer Ralliart, were available for Subaru to take notice of long before the new WRX came out. Everyone else got lots better in the last few years, but Subaru just updated its WRX and DIDN'T get a lot better, even though the price went up. Isn't that the same thing - the WRX letting us down?

ateixeira

Well, your expectations were that Subaru could do what it did in 2002 again, and in this environment it's much harder to do the same thing again.

Funny thing is, I flash back to 2002, and people were screaming "the bug eyes make it look like a Neon" and ranting and raving about how cheap the interior bits and pieces were. Thin paint. Cheap carpets. Cheap frameless windows that made wind noise galore.

Is it nostalgia fogging our memories?

Back in 2002 I remember just as much criticism as there is today, if not more. The only difference is a now-established base of WRX owners that complain more vocally.

nippononly

"...ranting and raving about how cheap the interior bits and pieces were. Thin paint. Cheap carpets. Cheap frameless windows that made wind noise galore."

Well, my memory isn't fogged, I don't think. Sure, I remember those complaints, and the real problem is Subaru is always below-average in this regard. These days, so is Toyota. But big Toyota dealers can afford to discount the HELL out of new Toyotas to compensate, and most Subaru dealers can't do the same with Subarus.

And does Subaru really want to become the "big discounts and incentives" brand? That is reminiscent of the domestics the last 15 years, and it hasn't led to good things for them...

ateixeira

Well, the framed windows (which I liked, BTW, the doors were light and visibility was great) are a response to all the shouting about how cheap the car felt.

I say "felt" because crash tests show the structure was rigid. It just felt cheap to a lot of people.

The ride could also improve, no doubt the very bare-bones strut suspension limited them in that regard.

Toss in complaints about how other cars in that price range had stability control.

Result? Subaru adds stability control, swaps out a more sophisticated suspension that handles just as well but rides a lot better, and window frames to quiet the wind noise.

They basically addressed all the major things that people complained about in 2002.

dino001

Wow - six years to address complaints. I think that rivals GMs response to Cavalier obsolescence. :P

dino001

And of course, back in 2002 Subaru had only just got done noticing it wasn't 1995 any more

Perhaps, but back then they were alone in segment they just invented. When I bought mine, I had nowhere else to go. So all was quickly forgiven.

Today they are in a small but crowded market - nobody should expect such forgiveness. If a tree fell on my car today, new WRX needs to get in a long line for my money - and they are very unlikely to earn it. Heck - 3 grand overallowance on the GTP program combined with VIP pricing was not enough to "get some numbers" from the dealer after a brief test drive... He asked "is there anything we could do...", I said "No - without product the best deal is not a deal".

:lemon:

paisan

Ok, so the nay sayers can all hit the pavement. Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out!

Seriously though, all this negativity is just depressing.

Do you people have ANYTHING good to say about Subaru?

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

nippononly

Yup, Subarus are some of the best engineered and most durable cars available on the market today. But there's no sizzle in that for the ad department to sell....

If feature content and interior quality are low for the price, it's hard to sell cars.

dino001

Ditto - exactly. I WANT a Subaru - the problem Subaru doesn't want me as their customer - at least that's the way I see it. They started cutting me out 2005 and continue ever since.

A lot of their products have a great potential - but their product planning and marketing teams may be arguably worst in the country. Last three years is a barage of one poor decision after another. Wrong packaging, misplaced competition targets, ditching their core audience for some elusive "mainstream" gains, in some design miscues (although that's probably least important to me) and worst of all - never following up on the ideas. They abandon whatever is left of their strategies at first sign of trouble.

Yes - IT IS DEPRESSING - but for different reasons. Subaru is on path of Saabization - turning into a market-irrelevant, financially ailing and uncompetitive company without real justification for its existence. They're not there yet - but the trends are visible by a naked eye.

nippononly

The one thing that made them stand out almost 15 years ago now - the transition to all AWD all the time - is less distinctive today as more and more AWD models come on the market. And of course, Subaru has never been able to effectively convince the general buying public that their AWD is better.

I think AWD will become more and more popular, but only if the car companies, including Subaru, figure out how to make their AWD models deliver high fuel economy, which they currently don't. Otherwise, rapidly rising gas prices may do them in (not Subaru, but many of the AWD offerings available). Hybrid and diesel powertrains will, of course, help in this regard.

Subaru's new diesel will be available soon this year in Europe, so why two more years before we might see it in the States? I guess it probably has everything to do with emissions. :-(

As for AWD, if it does gain in popularity marketwide, what will make Subarus stand apart after that? The whole concept of the boxer engine is even MORE difficult than the AWD for people to understand the benefits of.

zman3

I think you hit on two key points. As I stated previously I don't think the average consumer cares about the technology differences between various AWD systems. If it goes in the snow that is all many, including me, care about. As far as the boxer engine is concerned I also say "so what?". If the CG is slightly lower I don't really care. It is a car and I don't think most consumers worry about their car tipping over. I also don't think the average driver would notice any handling difference. I personally don't think the NVH of the boxer is on par with many/most in-line or V engines.

I am on my second Subaru but those sales pitches will not resonate at all with me when it comes time to buy a new vehicle. I will still buy another Subaru if I find it to be the best for my needs, but it won't be based on those two selling points.

My $0.02.

xhe518

AWD - it's becoming more and more common, especially with many people moving toward the crossover type vehicles which usually at least offer AWD. Like the guy above said, the average person doesn't know and doesn't care about the differences among various AWD systems - as long as they go in the snow....

Boxer engines - the average person doesn't even understand the difference between an inline engine and a V engine - most people call any 6 cylinder engine a "V6" - let alone understand what a boxer is.

jeffmc

Safest model lineup of any manufacturer, but hardly anyone knows, even current Subaru owners. That alone can sell a lot of cars, and they need to emphasize it, but it's not exciting or sexy. (Not to say there's no marketing angle to change that.)

dino001

Exactly - one of the things I always tell my friends about Subaru lineup as being safest in its price/size class - at least those who know about Subaru at all. They all look at me like I was born on Mars. Zero brand awareness outside of those who know already.

nippononly

LOL! When I had a Subaru everyone I knew would refer to it as the Suzuki or the Isuzu. I would say "no, it's a Subaru", they would say "it's a Suba-WHAT?" and would go right on calling it their brand of choice.

Kinda sad that Isuzu, now defunct in the U.S. has better brand recognition than Subaru, established here lo these almost-40 years...and Suzuki too, selling what? 10K cars a year for most of their existence in the States?

Safety can sell, and I have seen Subaru ads on TV that point it out. That is probably their strongest angle. They haven't had any big WRC wins since the 90s, have they? I forget. So they can't tie advertising to that. And the AWD and boxer angles are DOA for advertising, I think.