Regardless of aerodynamics, the most mpg is obtained at the slowest speed in top gear, preferably not lugging the engine. It's not 75mph for the Civic........See above...again.
I hate to see people frustrated and not able to get their issues resolved.
Kennethr: I responded back on March 23rd when you stated your wife's car gets 26-28 mpg while you are stuck in the high teens. I'll state it again. Try driving your wife's car for a week or a couple tanks of gas and have her drive the Civic. This will help eliminate the "driver's error" part. Also begin tracking your gas mileage in writing. Get a small notebook and keep in the glove compartment. Track the miles at fill up, gallons of gas and miles since last fill-up. this way you have something in writing to show the dealership the next time you go in.
who said the salesman wasn't honest? If they had been selling civics and hearing about how good the mileage is, why would it be wrong to assume that you would get good mileage too?
Again, there are plenty of cars that get decent mileage that you could have considered, that sacrifice utility the way the civic does, why didn't you get one of those? If mileage is all you cared about, a corolla seems more to your liking.
There are a lot of real car enthusiastes who drive civics. This car spawned the tuner culture for goodnessakes.
I feel for you milage. Your just wrong about it being hondas fault. Everyone on this site who thinks this is wrong too, and they have belived so strongly about this apparent 'fact' that the moderators have had to step in as well
Hi dtownfb, thanks for the advice. I did drive my wifes Toyota Camry for two weeks and got great mileage around town, 26+. Also I did as you suggested and kept receipts on several tanks of gas and a mileage log. I sent copies of each and every one to the Honda dealership and to the Honda Customer Relations in California. Both places dismissed the mathematical evidence as "driver peculiarities!" And again, the California rep told me it was up to me to prove that I had a problem (and I asked; "Isn't 16 m.p.g. problem enough?" Answer; "No it's not a problem with the car unless you can prove it's a problem with the car."), until then simply "Stop bothering us." The Honda dealership didn't even bother to reply. So where do I go from here? KennethR
Hello everyone and my 1.8 liter in my Celica get 36 mpg on the highway and 25 around town after 70,000 miles. So I would not think it is the engine size regarding the previous posts.
Hi eldaino, has it ever occurred to you that the "moderators" are somhow affiliated with Honda? And to say that the salesman probably had "...heard about how good the mileage is..." is totally bizarre. Isn't it the obligation of the salesperson to have more than a hunch as to the day to day performance of the vehicle they are selling? But you are right about one thing: I should have bought a Corolla. KennethR
I'm a host, not a moderator, but it sounds like you must be talking about me. Let me be clear: I have no affiliation with Honda whatsoever. No one involved in the CarSpace Forums or any other Edmunds website is affiliated with any car dealer or manufacturer in any way. Why on earth would you think that? If we were somehow trying to present biased postings, don't you think we'd delete those that don't conform?
All anyone here - including me - is trying to do is help you. If all you want to do is fight with us, there really isn't any way that we can succeed. That would be a real shame. Reminds me of what my mother used to tell me when I was little - don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
Seriously - we really are trying to help. Why not lighten up and let us?
Hi Pat, I do want to thank those of your readers that have offered me advice. And I have taken and acted upon every piece of advice given. I have kept a driving log, kept gas reciepts, changed vehicles for test drives, submitted everything to the dealership and Honda headquarters etc. But I am still in the same place: "the car isn't broken", the car still gets 17 m.p.g. in cold weather and 20 in warm weather. I dare not use the airconditioning at $3 a gallon. KennethR
Several other suggestions have been made. I think you should schedule appointments at other dealerships and/or independent mechanics (which may be the best option if you are getting nowhere at the dealerships) for other opinions. Others have suggested, and I agree, that you take this up the chain with Honda corporate.
Your experiment with your wife's car is invaluable evidence that all is not nearly right with your car. You just need to be as tenacious within the proper channels as you are with your posts!
What Pat said is true. If you can get 26 MPG in a Camry driven the same way, same conditions, same route, your Civic should be getting better mileage than the Camry. My dad drives a Civic and gets very similar mileage to me in his daily routine (we both get about 30 MPG). I have a 2006 Accord (2.4L I-4 Auto) though! The difference? When he had an Accord, he got 22 MPG. (for the record, his Accord was basically identical to mine, (2005 2.4 I-4 Auto). If I drove the Civic on my daily commute, I'd expect the mileage to be a good deal higher than his, just as you should expect the Civic's to be higher than the Camry's.
Something is wrong with your Civic or your story. Keep trying different dealers, that's all I can say. Have them investigate the engine computer, check for dragging brakes, check the emissions system, anything (just spitting ideas out here). Either do that, or have the lemon law invoked if you can. If you can't, sell that sucker since it is such a sour spot in your life.
i would check the exhaust emissions and see if any raw gas is escaping. perharps the car is taking too much raw gas for compression explaining the low mpg. to bad you do not have a dyno available you could set the car on it and run it for a while at a constant speed and see what mileage it gets. if it is low doing that there is definitley something wrong.
See if the dealership has a lightly used Civic of the same year that they will let you use for a tank of gas. Have them fill the tank and then seal it (a signed piece of tape etc). You drive for a week and then calculate the mpg. Do the same thing with your vehicle and compare the results.
Alternatively you should purchase a scangauge 2 ( www.scangauge.com ) If this is really a problem for you the $170 will be well worth it. Drive your Civic with the scangauge over a set course, then drive another one from the dealer (or rented) over the same course. The scangauge will give you an accurate mileage number.
If either of these (or both) tests show a discrepancy between the cars you then have some facts to base your argument on.
Either way I think you should buy the scangauge it really helps you to manage your gas mileage. My brother averages 37-38 mpg (in warm weather) in his Accord for his commute. He said the scangauge helped him get the mileage up.
YES,we know, "the slowest speed in top gear" blah blah... but 20 or 25 mph is supremely useless for any daily use. Yes, we know, 75 mph probably isn't the most efficient speed for a Civic...probably..it was a number pulled strictly from my active imagination. Could be 68 mph, could be 59 mph. Once again and for the last time (my apologies to everyone else who may get this simple theory of mine)I refuse to accept that some stupid slow speed is useful even though in theory YES it WILL provide the absolute BEST fuel economy..my whole premise uses a safe cruising speed that is not too fast and not too slow a "sweet spot" if you will. Stop being an obstructionist by continually pointing to your correct but useless observation while refusing to concede in mine.
Thanks for following up. Unfortunately, the dealer can't do anything unless a "check engine" light comes on. It's not like the old days when the mechanic would run tests for you or swap out a part.
Here's another suggestion that will cost you money. Are there any independent mechanics in your area that specialize in Hondas? take a look in your phone book and see if any are advertised. It may be worth contacting this mechanic to see if they have any suggestions or possibly know of an area of concern.
With gas mileage as low as you are talking, my first guess is oxygen sensor but that should trigger a check engine light.
I took a (actual mileage 388 mile, for this fill) R/T to see my daughter at her university and was thinking of taking the Honda Civic to see what it would do on the highway. Last minute, her aunt and cousin wanted to go, so I nixed the plan to take the Civic, as I projected high 30's with 2 folks, and who knows what with 4 people and a FULL TRUNK) Took the TDI Jetta, used the A/C the whole R/T and got 48.7 mpg. It really pulls the mileage down when you have an extra 300 or so #'s (-2 to -3 mpg).
Sure there can be--not everyone's daily commute has the same conditions, speed, number of traffic stops, etc. For example I live in a metropolitan area and my old commute took me down one local highway all the way to work. Typically it was a 20-minute drive, mostly at 50mph with 2-3 stoplights. In the 99 Concorde I was driving I was getting 25mpg with this commute.
Then, I moved to another part of town, where I drive through 3 stopsigns and 2 lights before hitting the interstate, and then going 40-70mph in various stretches. Total time about 30 minutes, and the Concorde's mileage dropped to 20mpg.
My 07 Civic is pretty new, only filled up twice so far, but it seems like I'll get about 28-29mpg. Based on my experience with the concorde, I suspect with my old commute the Civic would get 35.
Dudley do you have much experience with this ScanGauge? It looks like a really great product. But are there any issues with how it operates in the Civic? Specifically, I wonder if it has any effect on the maintenance minder system or has compatibility issues? I'd hate to screw that up, as this is my first car with built-in maintenance reminders. I'm looking forward to not having to guess what should be done next.
Mileage is affected by several factors: 1. Acceleration and deceleration - decreases mileage 2. Speeds over 55-65 mpg - increases drag force and decreases mileage 3. Car shape( coefficient of drag, and frontal area)- the lesser the better 4. Temperature - air is denser at lower temperatures and requires more energy to be pushed aside 5. Other factors are A/C, tire pressure, driving habits, car maintainence etc.
As you can see, it is impossible for two ppl living in two different locations (or even the same location) to get the same gas mileage. 25-30% variability is not very uncommon.
The scangauge should not interfere with anything on the Civic or any other car. It will not affect the maintenance minder. I just plugs into the cars computer port (the one the dealer uses to diagnose the car) and gives you the data that is in the cars computer (massaged to be more usefull). I do not have one yet - I just ordered mine yesterday actually. My brother does have one on his Accord and love it. It has helped him (and his wife) improve their gas mileage. It really lets you know what is bringing the mileage down - cold temp, hills, acceleration etc.
As far as city mileage goes it cannot be compared from one person to the next - far too many variables. The easiest way to see if an engine is running efficiently is to check steady state highway mileage. Drive at one speed in top gear for an extended period and check the mileage. This can be directly compared to the mileage of others. Noting the temp, wind speed, weather and any other conditions will also help.
The reason I reccomend the scangauge is that you can tell the steady state mpg in a couple of minutes, at various speeds, and between various vehicles. It is very easy to do a 1 mile run in each direction and average the mpg.
Yes it does cost something, but if the mpg thing is a problem, and a long trip at highway speeds is out of the question, then this will give answers.
Besides - we are all curious to see what the problem is.
As has been discussed, the type of driving everyone does is a huge factor in MPG. I'm one of the many disappointed Civic owners (2006 EX AT 4D) who is averaging low to mid 20's (23-27). For me, I have a feeling it's all the starting and stopping I do on my daily morning commute, which goes something like this:
* Start car, go 1 mile to drop son off at daycare where car is parked.
* Start car, go 2 miles to drop daughter off for school, parking car again.
* Start car, go 3 miles through suburban neighborhood and congested local highway to get onto interstate, then drive 5 miles at 70 MPH to work.
At lunch time, I'll generally go out within a couple miles of the office, meaning another couple of engine starts. The drive home is all suburban roads (which I'd think is somewhat equivalent to city driving) for about 9-10 miles, no stops.
If this was all of my driving, it would work out to 75/25 city/highway. Based on revised EPA (26/36 or something like that), you'd think around 28-29 MPG would make sense. But all of the starting and stopping is probably what's killing it. I recently got 28 for one tank (my best in quite awhile) thanks to a 40 mile round trip drive of all highway. For that little bit to make a 3-4 MPG difference is telling.
For the record, my previous car was a 6 CYL Pontiac Grand AM SE AT 4D and I was getting low 20's with it. Perhaps it is more efficient with all of the starting/stopping which balances out the mileage advantage the Civic is supposed to have. I don't know.
Anyway, seeing the change with that one highway run, I'd bet I'd get 30+ MPG if I drove longer highway stretches each tank and/or didn't have as many stops. The car is probably performing as it should, I just have to understand the impact of the type of driving I do. An economy car isn't a big money saver for me, unfortunately.
Engines are very inneficient when cold. The EPA highway test is done with a fully warmed up engine. Driving a cold engine on the highway for a couple of miles will get you nowhere near EPA highway miles.
Given that your engine barely has a chance to warm up (it takes about 15 minutes in the winter - oil temp is what matters not water temp), I think your mileage is just about right. Thanks for the detailed explanation of the trip it puts things in perspective.
Remember that while an automatic Civic got 43 mpg on the CR highway test it only got 18 on their city test. Also remember that it is not so much the miles you drive of each, but the time. You may go 50 miles highway and 10 miles city and think you drive 5x more highway. If you spend and hour doing each though you are really 50/50. The stop and go really, really drags the mileage down.
The previous generation Civic with the smaller engine was about the same on the highway, but much better in the city because of the smaller engine and lower weight, so fewer people were getting the real low mileage.
Also the EPA city test is started with a cold engine, but is long enough that the engine does eventually warm up. If you drive 2 miles the engine is never warm - regardless of what the water temp gauge says.
Put the scan gauge in my Accord yesterday. Only took two short drives, but they illustrate the point. Trip 1 was about 3.5 miles and the temp was about 40. The car was sitting for about an hour so it was not stone cold. There were 4 stop signs and 1 light (that I stopped at) I generally went uphill (about 150ft total). My mpg was 25.2
Second trip was this morning. Cold start in the morning, the temp was about 29, the trip was about 1.5 miles (engine not close to warming up), drove .7 miles to school to drop off kids (car idles for about a minute, then .8 more miles to work. There were 5 stop signs. This time I wound up going mostly downhill (120 ft lower). My mpg was only 17.2 this time because the engine never warmed up.
Have had our 07 EX Coupe since 1/29/07. Mileage has been what I expected on the road and a little less to work and back on my 5.8 (each way) mile commute in city traffic.
This has been stated before I'm sure but, does everyone top off their tank to the "Rim" when checking mileage? Not all Gas Stations / pumps allow you to control the flow enough. When I fill up at Chevron stations, filling to the rim usually adds about another 2+ gallons. Have not experienced any safety issues doing this, otherwise how can mileage be calculated accurately?
The mileage listed reflects fill and refill to the rim at the same station, regular gas, smooth acceleration, the Tach really helps out, try to keep the Tach in the 2000-2500 range as much as possible when accelerating.
5.3 mile each way to work and back: 28-29 mpg. (1 person)
360 mile round trip @ 75mph with AC on - 38.5 mpg. (1 person)
280 mile round trip @ 70mph. or less, mostly hwy with approx 60 miles local roads and around town. A/c off: 39.5 mpg ( 2 persons)
Around town, to work and back with a good deal of open road @ 40-50mph, good amount of stop and go: 32.5 mpg.
Anyone see any difference between gas companies?
Have yet to hit an all highway trip from full to empty, have one or two coming up.
it doesn't matter how full you get the tank when filling, as long as it is consistent. If you divide the miles driven by the number of gallons= mpg. Consistency is the key.
It is NOT recommended that you or anyone fills their tank to the "rim". There is a evaporative return valve somewhere in the upper filler tube that returns fuel vapors from the charcoal canister (under the hood) to the tank to keep fuel vapors from entering the atmosphere. Pollution issues aside if this valve is flooded with raw gas you will see a check engine light soon enough. If the charcoal canister becomes flooded it will also need replaced. I believe the first "auto shut-off" is sufficient to fill the tank....not necessary to fill the filler tube also.
What you are saying is true. I am not sure that it is as persnickety in the Civic as it can be in some cars. When you do go past the "auto stop" you do put it on semi manual/manual control, the worse case being over flow which would defeat the purpose on a number of fronts. Of course on the Civic you are spilling raw fuel on painted surfaces. This can't be a "good thing". The flamability issue is not small also. Do it near a "SMOKER," well......
Filled up last night (cold) using the normal auto stop feature. The mpg was 39.4.
Points well taken, did not plan on always topping off the tank, just wanted to be as accurate as possible....no overspills, ruined paint or environment.
I have satisfied myself with mileage tests, without blowing up myself or the car.
Also, if I were to recommend one thing, a hybrid vehicle for anyone commuting on a daily basis in a typical city / suburban setting, over 20 miles daily. That stop and go really taps into the MPG's on any car.
Filled up this morning, (it rained overnight if that has any bearing) 39.8 mpg. I was running 80 mph on the way to the station. The weeks' commute since my last fill has been the normal (heavy) commute. On the way back, it occurred to me to mention on this board that I think that in line with your quote "over 20 miles daily" is the role of the engine and drive train lubrication's getting up to operating temperature's (interrelated with the machinery/s getting up to temperature/s). As a matter of comparison, what are you getting with your Civic Hybrid?? In a past post, I swagged it at 1 hours time. The real reason for this swag is the fact the oil and oil additives are actually heat sensitive/activated so they can do their job. When you do not get the vehicle up to operating temperature/s, the oil and additives can/do/will NOT do their work as well. So indeed there is a temperature certain and once you reach that it is best to let the systems run at that temperature for a minimum optimum time.
OK, I’ll join the fray: 07 civic EX 2d Auto. 18” HFP wheels with 215/ZR40 tires. (I mention that since they are considered a mileage reduction factor usually)
Running Ave 29.04, min 26.83, max 30.93. Yes, I keep a spreadsheet on this
Driving: mostly city freeways with bumper to bumper stop and go traffic and bursts to 85+mph (this IS Houston, after all .). Rural driving at 75+mph with cruise where possible and AC is about the same, (the 30.93 trip above). The only time it sees 55 is on the way up or down from cruising speed! No long highway excursions with cruise control yet.
We only have 2000 miles (7 fillups) so numbers are still tentative, but the #s are extremely consistent across several less-than-optimum driving environments. It ain’t 40mpg but it ain’t bad considering the tires and my driving style.
The same driver, style and conditions gave an average 22mpg in a 97 v6 camry (with 200k miles).
fwiw, if you are in an area that requires ethanol-laced gasoline, expect a notiecable drop in your mileage. You will also get less power, so you may tend to 'push' on it a bit more, further reducing mileage. My previous car noticed about 1-2mpg loss when using ethanol (10%). The power loss was very noticeable. Haven't run enough non-ethanol gasoline to judge in the civic.
And it adds about 5 cents per gallon to your costs. such a deal.
I take it those are aftermarket wheels and tires and you are ok with paying both the premium,the lesser fuel mileage, and higher repair and replacement costs associated with modifications such as these.
I'm not so sure. Minnesota requires 10% ethanol and yet I many times get better mpg with it than when I fill up in Wisconsin (non ethanol gas). I have noticed brand of gas makes a difference. Shell seems to give me 1 or 2mpg better than most others. My office moved about 7 months ago and is now next to a Shell station that I use weekly. I've seen the best mpg from those fill-ups. For my Subaru, temperature affects mileage the most. About a 5mpg swing from winter to summer. Summer being the best.
Yes I know that ethanol has less available engergy, but it doesn't seem to make a difference for me.
Note: I'm not driving a Civic, but thinking about it and doing the research.
ethanol can't help mileage, it simply has a lower energy content as you said. It's physics. It may not hurt you MUCH, but it does hurt and is well documented. Realize that in many areas, ethanol is only used in SUMMER fuels (i think, or just winter perhaps, i forget). That was the case here for a few years, alas, now we are year-round.
And brand will rarely make much difference as it all comes from the same pipeline, only the additives are different and those can't make mileage differences. Cleanliness, yes, mileage, no. Your differences could be that since you have a new route to work, your style is affected. example: I now work much closer than my previous job, but due to the traffic levels my MPG is a bit lower. pooh.
Except for driving conditions and idling for warm-ups, winter air is denser so it will (in theory) give BETTER mileage. But only if all other conditions are the same, and I would imagine that in Minnesota winters they rarely are! And I would think (as I cannot know) that driving on/in snow hurts mileage since the rolling resistance increases with surface area contact.
But bottomline is that only you can tell accurately what you mileage and conditions really are. In my case, it's not the most important factor or I would be riding a bike....
The real reason for pointing it out, is to highlight the range of variables and applications. A Civic can cost anywhere from sub 12k to pretty close to 25k. So the lines can blur quite a bit on the mpg front and also ones' defintion of "economy", and indeed they do.
In my own case, it was bought (sub 12.6k) specifically for a 5/7 day ( daily commute and to go 4 timing belt changes. (105k per belt) So 71% of scheduled mileage is point a to point b. What happens on the other days, mileage wise are probably less but can be more like, I went 600 miles one day. So one major issue: the lowest operating cost per mile. Some side issues: highest mpg under the circumstances, reliability (little to no drama), 20k OCI's,tires that go 100k, etc.
For me the temp is the biggest by far. 50 degrees plus doesn't affect. 30 to 50 I'll loose about 2mpg. 10 to 20 I'll loose about 3 or 4mpg and under zero I'll loose 5mpg.
I attribute the temperature to turning the fluids to nearly a solid. The warm up time goes way up and some of the fluids may never really warm up. The AT takes over 3x longer to lock up the torque converter when its cold.
AC which hasn't been used yet this year will nock off about 1mpg.
Tire inflation is also a 1mpg hit if they get too soft.
For me same trips to work with a fill-up from Shell gives typically gives 28mpg. Fill-ups from Station X in Wisonsin typically gives 27mpg. About 90% highway miles. So I just don't see a mpg difference with ethanol.
wow the hfp 18's run on 215's? i could have sworn i saw them on an lx at the dealer and they were 225's. But then again i saw an ex with the 17 inch version and they were on 225's as well...
my HFP 18" came with 215. now as to what is POSSIBLE to run, I haven't gotten there yet, I need to get a few more miles under my belt to make any reasonable choices on what to replace them with.
Gotta admit they're just for looks on the EX with auto....;)
Ethanol has less energy, but it does have higher octane, so some engines can take advantage of that. In SD regular gas is 87 octane, ethanol is 89 octane (and about 3 cents cheaper than regular), and then premium is about 10 cents more than regular.
Comments
Kennethr: I responded back on March 23rd when you stated your wife's car gets 26-28 mpg while you are stuck in the high teens. I'll state it again. Try driving your wife's car for a week or a couple tanks of gas and have her drive the Civic. This will help eliminate the "driver's error" part. Also begin tracking your gas mileage in writing. Get a small notebook and keep in the glove compartment. Track the miles at fill up, gallons of gas and miles since last fill-up. this way you have something in writing to show the dealership the next time you go in.
How many miles do you have on your Civic?
Again, there are plenty of cars that get decent mileage that you could have considered, that sacrifice utility the way the civic does, why didn't you get one of those? If mileage is all you cared about, a corolla seems more to your liking.
There are a lot of real car enthusiastes who drive civics. This car spawned the tuner culture for goodnessakes.
I feel for you milage. Your just wrong about it being hondas fault. Everyone on this site who thinks this is wrong too, and they have belived so strongly about this apparent 'fact' that the moderators have had to step in as well
thanks for the advice.
I did drive my wifes Toyota Camry for two weeks and got great mileage around town, 26+.
Also I did as you suggested and kept receipts on several tanks of gas and a mileage log. I sent copies of each and every one to the Honda dealership and to the Honda Customer Relations in California. Both places dismissed the mathematical evidence as "driver peculiarities!" And again, the California rep told me it was up to me to prove that I had a problem (and I asked; "Isn't 16 m.p.g. problem enough?" Answer; "No it's not a problem with the car unless you can prove it's a problem with the car."), until then simply "Stop bothering us." The Honda dealership didn't even bother to reply.
So where do I go from here? KennethR
has it ever occurred to you that the "moderators" are somhow affiliated with Honda?
And to say that the salesman probably had "...heard about how good the mileage is..." is totally bizarre. Isn't it the obligation of the salesperson to have more than a hunch as to the day to day performance of the vehicle they are selling?
But you are right about one thing: I should have bought a Corolla. KennethR
All anyone here - including me - is trying to do is help you. If all you want to do is fight with us, there really isn't any way that we can succeed. That would be a real shame. Reminds me of what my mother used to tell me when I was little - don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
Seriously - we really are trying to help. Why not lighten up and let us?
I do want to thank those of your readers that have offered me advice. And I have taken and acted upon every piece of advice given. I have kept a driving log, kept gas reciepts, changed vehicles for test drives, submitted everything to the dealership and Honda headquarters etc. But I am still in the same place: "the car isn't broken", the car still gets 17 m.p.g. in cold weather and 20 in warm weather. I dare not use the airconditioning at $3 a gallon.
KennethR
Your experiment with your wife's car is invaluable evidence that all is not nearly right with your car. You just need to be as tenacious within the proper channels as you are with your posts!
Something is wrong with your Civic or your story. Keep trying different dealers, that's all I can say. Have them investigate the engine computer, check for dragging brakes, check the emissions system, anything (just spitting ideas out here). Either do that, or have the lemon law invoked if you can. If you can't, sell that sucker since it is such a sour spot in your life.
Alternatively you should purchase a scangauge 2 ( www.scangauge.com ) If this is really a problem for you the $170 will be well worth it. Drive your Civic with the scangauge over a set course, then drive another one from the dealer (or rented) over the same course. The scangauge will give you an accurate mileage number.
If either of these (or both) tests show a discrepancy between the cars you then have some facts to base your argument on.
Either way I think you should buy the scangauge it really helps you to manage your gas mileage. My brother averages 37-38 mpg (in warm weather) in his Accord for his commute. He said the scangauge helped him get the mileage up.
Here's another suggestion that will cost you money. Are there any independent mechanics in your area that specialize in Hondas? take a look in your phone book and see if any are advertised. It may be worth contacting this mechanic to see if they have any suggestions or possibly know of an area of concern.
With gas mileage as low as you are talking, my first guess is oxygen sensor but that should trigger a check engine light.
Then, I moved to another part of town, where I drive through 3 stopsigns and 2 lights before hitting the interstate, and then going 40-70mph in various stretches. Total time about 30 minutes, and the Concorde's mileage dropped to 20mpg.
My 07 Civic is pretty new, only filled up twice so far, but it seems like I'll get about 28-29mpg. Based on my experience with the concorde, I suspect with my old commute the Civic would get 35.
1. Acceleration and deceleration - decreases mileage
2. Speeds over 55-65 mpg - increases drag force and decreases mileage
3. Car shape( coefficient of drag, and frontal area)- the lesser the better
4. Temperature - air is denser at lower temperatures and requires more energy to be pushed aside
5. Other factors are A/C, tire pressure, driving habits, car maintainence etc.
As you can see, it is impossible for two ppl living in two different locations (or even the same location) to get the same gas mileage. 25-30% variability is not very uncommon.
As far as city mileage goes it cannot be compared from one person to the next - far too many variables. The easiest way to see if an engine is running efficiently is to check steady state highway mileage. Drive at one speed in top gear for an extended period and check the mileage. This can be directly compared to the mileage of others. Noting the temp, wind speed, weather and any other conditions will also help.
The reason I reccomend the scangauge is that you can tell the steady state mpg in a couple of minutes, at various speeds, and between various vehicles. It is very easy to do a 1 mile run in each direction and average the mpg.
Yes it does cost something, but if the mpg thing is a problem, and a long trip at highway speeds is out of the question, then this will give answers.
Besides - we are all curious to see what the problem is.
* Start car, go 1 mile to drop son off at daycare where car is parked.
* Start car, go 2 miles to drop daughter off for school, parking car again.
* Start car, go 3 miles through suburban neighborhood and congested local highway to get onto interstate, then drive 5 miles at 70 MPH to work.
At lunch time, I'll generally go out within a couple miles of the office, meaning another couple of engine starts. The drive home is all suburban roads (which I'd think is somewhat equivalent to city driving) for about 9-10 miles, no stops.
If this was all of my driving, it would work out to 75/25 city/highway. Based on revised EPA (26/36 or something like that), you'd think around 28-29 MPG would make sense. But all of the starting and stopping is probably what's killing it. I recently got 28 for one tank (my best in quite awhile) thanks to a 40 mile round trip drive of all highway. For that little bit to make a 3-4 MPG difference is telling.
For the record, my previous car was a 6 CYL Pontiac Grand AM SE AT 4D and I was getting low 20's with it. Perhaps it is more efficient with all of the starting/stopping which balances out the mileage advantage the Civic is supposed to have. I don't know.
Anyway, seeing the change with that one highway run, I'd bet I'd get 30+ MPG if I drove longer highway stretches each tank and/or didn't have as many stops. The car is probably performing as it should, I just have to understand the impact of the type of driving I do. An economy car isn't a big money saver for me, unfortunately.
Given that your engine barely has a chance to warm up (it takes about 15 minutes in the winter - oil temp is what matters not water temp), I think your mileage is just about right. Thanks for the detailed explanation of the trip it puts things in perspective.
Remember that while an automatic Civic got 43 mpg on the CR highway test it only got 18 on their city test. Also remember that it is not so much the miles you drive of each, but the time. You may go 50 miles highway and 10 miles city and think you drive 5x more highway. If you spend and hour doing each though you are really 50/50. The stop and go really, really drags the mileage down.
The previous generation Civic with the smaller engine was about the same on the highway, but much better in the city because of the smaller engine and lower weight, so fewer people were getting the real low mileage.
Also the EPA city test is started with a cold engine, but is long enough that the engine does eventually warm up. If you drive 2 miles the engine is never warm - regardless of what the water temp gauge says.
Put the scan gauge in my Accord yesterday. Only took two short drives, but they illustrate the point. Trip 1 was about 3.5 miles and the temp was about 40. The car was sitting for about an hour so it was not stone cold. There were 4 stop signs and 1 light (that I stopped at) I generally went uphill (about 150ft total). My mpg was 25.2
Second trip was this morning. Cold start in the morning, the temp was about 29, the trip was about 1.5 miles (engine not close to warming up), drove .7 miles to school to drop off kids (car idles for about a minute, then .8 more miles to work. There were 5 stop signs. This time I wound up going mostly downhill (120 ft lower). My mpg was only 17.2 this time because the engine never warmed up.
This has been stated before I'm sure but, does everyone top off their tank to the "Rim" when checking mileage? Not all Gas Stations / pumps allow you to control the flow enough. When I fill up at Chevron stations, filling to the rim usually adds about another 2+ gallons. Have not experienced any safety issues doing this, otherwise how can mileage be calculated accurately?
The mileage listed reflects fill and refill to the rim at the same station, regular gas, smooth acceleration, the Tach really helps out, try to keep the Tach in the 2000-2500 range as much as possible when accelerating.
5.3 mile each way to work and back: 28-29 mpg. (1 person)
360 mile round trip @ 75mph with AC on - 38.5 mpg. (1 person)
280 mile round trip @ 70mph. or less, mostly hwy with approx 60 miles local roads and around town. A/c off: 39.5 mpg ( 2 persons)
Around town, to work and back with a good deal of open road @ 40-50mph, good amount of stop and go: 32.5 mpg.
Anyone see any difference between gas companies?
Have yet to hit an all highway trip from full to empty, have one or two coming up.
Filled up last night (cold) using the normal auto stop feature. The mpg was 39.4.
I have satisfied myself with mileage tests, without blowing up myself or the car.
Also, if I were to recommend one thing, a hybrid vehicle for anyone commuting on a daily basis in a typical city / suburban setting, over 20 miles daily. That stop and go really taps into the MPG's on any car.
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/957/releases/2781
You bring up a good point about operating temp. With my 5.8 mile commute each way to work, wonder if synthetic oil would be a better way to go?
07 civic EX 2d Auto. 18” HFP wheels with 215/ZR40 tires. (I mention that since they are considered a mileage reduction factor usually)
Running Ave 29.04, min 26.83, max 30.93. Yes, I keep a spreadsheet on this
Driving: mostly city freeways with bumper to bumper stop and go traffic and bursts to 85+mph (this IS Houston, after all .). Rural driving at 75+mph with cruise where possible and AC is about the same, (the 30.93 trip above). The only time it sees 55 is on the way up or down from cruising speed! No long highway excursions with cruise control yet.
We only have 2000 miles (7 fillups) so numbers are still tentative, but the #s are extremely consistent across several less-than-optimum driving environments. It ain’t 40mpg but it ain’t bad considering the tires and my driving style.
The same driver, style and conditions gave an average 22mpg in a 97 v6 camry (with 200k miles).
And it adds about 5 cents per gallon to your costs. such a deal.
Yes I know that ethanol has less available engergy, but it doesn't seem to make a difference for me.
Note: I'm not driving a Civic, but thinking about it and doing the research.
BTW, they are Honda, fully covered by factory AND extended warranty.
And brand will rarely make much difference as it all comes from the same pipeline, only the additives are different and those can't make mileage differences. Cleanliness, yes, mileage, no. Your differences could be that since you have a new route to work, your style is affected. example: I now work much closer than my previous job, but due to the traffic levels my MPG is a bit lower. pooh.
Except for driving conditions and idling for warm-ups, winter air is denser so it will (in theory) give BETTER mileage. But only if all other conditions are the same, and I would imagine that in Minnesota winters they rarely are! And I would think (as I cannot know) that driving on/in snow hurts mileage since the rolling resistance increases with surface area contact.
But bottomline is that only you can tell accurately what you mileage and conditions really are. In my case, it's not the most important factor or I would be riding a bike....
In my own case, it was bought (sub 12.6k) specifically for a 5/7 day ( daily commute and to go 4 timing belt changes. (105k per belt) So 71% of scheduled mileage is point a to point b. What happens on the other days, mileage wise are probably less but can be more like, I went 600 miles one day.
For me the temp is the biggest by far. 50 degrees plus doesn't affect. 30 to 50 I'll loose about 2mpg. 10 to 20 I'll loose about 3 or 4mpg and under zero I'll loose 5mpg.
I attribute the temperature to turning the fluids to nearly a solid. The warm up time goes way up and some of the fluids may never really warm up. The AT takes over 3x longer to lock up the torque converter when its cold.
AC which hasn't been used yet this year will nock off about 1mpg.
Tire inflation is also a 1mpg hit if they get too soft.
For me same trips to work with a fill-up from Shell gives typically gives 28mpg. Fill-ups from Station X in Wisonsin typically gives 27mpg. About 90% highway miles. So I just don't see a mpg difference with ethanol.
Gotta admit they're just for looks on the EX with auto....;)
I still use regular though.