Y2K Chevy S-10ZR2 vs. Y2K Ford Ranger XLT Off-Road

cthompson21

I've owned 3 GM products in the past 3 or 4 years. Now, Ford has been my (and my wife's) vehicle of choice for our past 3 vehicles.

Would you like to know why? It's actually quite simple.

They cost less and are of better quality.

You can keep bring up this friend of a friend thing and so on. Sounds like a bunch of urban legends to me.

cthompson21

The new I6 in the S10 does sound like a great engine. GM has always made great power-trains. It's just that GM has problems putting together the stuff that goes around it.

I wouldn't hold my breath on a V8 S10 either. With the extra weight, power, and space considerations for a V8, you either need to do some major modifications to the truck or redesign it to accomodate one. Either case means lotsa R&D cash. Why would they want to cannibalize the sales of the more powerful I6 S10 or the more profitable Silverado?

cthompson21

BTW, where did you happen to come across all of this registered vehicle information?

xena1a

Chevy10 -

I want to talk about what you have referred to as "factory lifts". I know you are a fan of the ZR2's agressive stance and subsquent ground clearance. But let's think about this for a minute. Isn't the REAL purpose of a lift to enable the owner of the vehicle to install larger wheels and or tires under the wheel wells? The ZR2 with its "factory lift" comes with 31" tires (15" rims). The Ranger, without any sort of special "lift" on the 4WDs can also be fitted with the same 31" tire. That being the case, where is the perceived ground clearance advantage that you said the ZR2 has over the Ranger? It seems to me that the Ranger already possesses the aggressive lift that you claim it lacks. Can 31" tires be run on any NON-ZR2 S10's? Just wondering...

superjim2000

Next gen Blazer that is.

superjim2000

If a I6 will fit under the hood of the next gen S10 theres no reason a V8 wont fit except that GM wont do it, however a V8 S10 Blazer has been rumored.

xena1a

I've also heard that the next generation S10 will be moving up in size to compete with the likes of the mid-size Dakota. Any truth in that?

xena1a

Interesting statement concerning the percentage of S10's still being registered as being greater than the Ranger. Kudos to Chevy IF it is true. Kudos to you IF you can prove it...

superjim2000

Yes I heard it will be midsize also. Anyone notice that I traveled back in time when I posted #113?
LOL

xena1a

What do you, as an S10 owner, think of this move to the mid-size market? Personally, I'm a little surprised. The S10 is a solid #2 in compact sales. Add the GMC Sonoma into the total, and GM sells a lot of these compact trucks. They seem to be abandoning their hard-earned market share to Ford, Toyota, and Nissan. The move could also impact Silverado/Sierra sales. I don't know, time will tell...

xena1a

I don't know, Chevy10. I think the kind of brand loyality you talked about earlier is fast becoming a thing of the past. More and more, consumers want choices for what best suits their needs. I drove a Chevy for 9 years. '90 1/2 ton, 2WD, V6, manual. I'll admit, I loved the 4.3L engine in that truck. Powerful, torquey, decent MPG. But the size of the 1/2 ton was just too big. I didn't utilize, or need, that much truck. So, I started looking at compacts. Yea, I looked at the ZR2, but I felt it was cost prohibitive. And I didn't really care for the NON-ZR2 4WD S10's. Gradually, Ford and Toyota became the major players. Toyota fell out because of the price. My wife is a Ford hater from way back, so to keep the peace, I dropped that idea. I eventually ended up the the Mazda B3000. Yes, I know it is a Ranger clone. But my wife doesn't. It's my dirty little secret. And I could't be happier with my truck. Outstanding build quality as well as great fit and finnish. Nice interior design and assembly. Handling, braking, steering, all superior to my previous truck. Nice MPG. Off-road capable. 4 doors. The list goes on. In short, I left Chevy for another brand and I couldn't be more pleased...

cthompson21

There's also width and heigth dimensions to consider when putting in a V8, not just length. Mustangs haven't gotten the 5.4L Triton because they didn't have enough heigth in the engine bay.

You've also got weight to consider. There's probably another couple hundred pounds (or more when considering other items which must be upgraded to deal with a V8) over the front axle. This might mean substantial suspension mods (more weight there too).

I think that Chevy would be shooting themself in the foot by moving the S10 "midsized" to compete with the Dakota and Tundra. They'll just cannibalize full-sized sales, and they'll probably increase the price of the truck, which is on the higher end in the compact segment.


They should look at their Buick and Pontiac divisions. Supercharge! Put a 6-8psi SC on that new I6. No weight penalty. No mpg penalty. You'd have tons of power too on an engine that should be smooth as butta. They have proven that their SC V6s are long-lasting and reliable. They've gotta have a brain floating around there somewhere...

superjim2000

I'm disappointed that the S10 will apparently be midsize when its redone in a couple of years. The supercharger sounds good but with DOHC the new engine family should make plenty of power. I agree that suspension upgrades would need to be made for a V8 but how much difference would it be, 200 lbs? As for height I think anywhere you can (and have in the past) put a I6 you can put a V8. But who knows, I read in the Chicago Tribune recently that GM is bringing out 30 truck models over the next couple of years so maybe the S10 will be compact and midsize, who knows. And yes they've got half a brain floating around there somewhere. Who knows what they'll do.

allknowing

Your loyalty to Chevy is admirable but GM still has a long way to go to recover from years of producing sub-standard vehicles even if they have improved. I used to be a Chevy nut too when I was younger but after enduring stupid problems and aggravating designs I tried other manufactures and was pleasantly surprised. If GM is beginning to get serious about quality again I may take another look in the future. Keep us honestly informed about any maintenance problems you have as most new vehicles these days require no maintenance for at least five years other than oil changes, etc. Let's see if the ZR2 holds up with time.

claro2

Can anyone break down the price of a new S10!
Interested in a x-cab with the wide stance package with auto trans.
Retail w/options?
Invoice?
What did you pay for this vehicle?
$1250 rebate?

cthompson21

Go to the new vehicle pricing on edmunds.com or check out the autopricer on www.carpoint.com. They both list invoice/retail pricing and options. You just check boxes with the autopricer on carpoint, very neat. Also, both pages have got rebate/special financing info.

cthompson21

The "swappers" on the 5.0 Ranger tech board talk of a couple hundred pound weight penalty when swapping in a 5.0, which I assume to be a relatively light V8.

I'm only saying that a manufacturer will have a lot to consider when dropping a V8 into a chassis that was not originally designed to accomodate one. Besides fitment and frame/suspension modifications, they'll also have to look at safety, handling, CAFE restrictions, cost, and a whole slew of other considerations that we would probably never think of.

I'd take a SC 4L I6 over a small-block V8. I would expect around 260hp and 300+ft/lbs of torque quite easily. And, you would probably get some decent mpg to boot.

There'll probably be a hp increase switching to DOHC, but it'll likely penalize torque either in pure amount or bump the peak up higher in the rpm range.

Geez, it sure sounds like GM is really all over the board. They really need to cut some divisions and consolidate.

woody2269

xena1a: What makes you think that the ZR2 is "cost prohibitive"? I think that it is a GREAT buy, especially if you are looking for a compact truck that has some balls. You don't feel as though you are driving a freakin' boat, but at the same time, you know that when you are driving on the road, you are really being looked at and respected in a wierd way (it's kinda hard to explain....) As for Non-ZR2 S-10's, I'll have to agree with you, they just don't live up to the whole "truck" view that most of us have. Granted, they are probably great for people who want to say that they own a truck, but especially is you have only a 4 cyl. 2 wheel drive. Why even bother? But that's just my humble opinion....

As for a new S-10 with a V8, I honestly don't know why Chevy HASN'T put that in yet. I have to say that I thing that they ARE in the same class as a Dakota, and they have a 5.9 v8 available. Please correct me if I am wrong.

claro2: I was also looking at a new S-10 ZR2 and fully loaded (4x4, auto, extended cab with a third door) they are running about 25K. BEAUTIFUL truck, highly reccommended!!

xena1a

I like the ZR2. It's a GREAT looking truck with some serious attitude. I'm also on record as being a fan of the 4.3L engine. However, at approx 25K, it and the Tacoma TRD are at the high end of the compact truck price spectrum. As a prospective first time 4WD buyer, I just was not comfortable putting down that kind of money. Could I have afforded it? Yes. But psychologically, the price was a barrier. Remember, this was my first 4WD. I didn't even know if I would like owning one. I had driven all 2WD trucks up to that point. For me, the B-Series had the best combination of styling, options, and price. For someone else, the ZR2 might have been the obvious selection. But isn't choice great? Perhaps my decision will be different next time around. For the time being, I'm content...

superjim2000

GM's been playing around with V8 S10's almost since it came out in '82. The next gen Blazer is rumored to get one and I'm sure the new V8 family is lighter than a 302 Ford or the old 350. If it does go midsize they'd be foolish not to put a V8 in. After thinking about it overnight its a good move be one of 3 manufacturers making midsize trucks, but they shouldn't abandon the compact truck either, after all Chevy's are considered 'entry level' vehicles. Maybe they can keep the S10 as a compact and call the midsize the S15.

superjim2000

That is if they're going to make both compact and midsize ones.

xena1a

Hmmm. Interesting idea. All three sizes from the same manufacturer. Don't know if that would work or not. I hadn't thought of it before. I'll let it perk for a bit...
Whatever GM decides, I would sure hate to see them leave the compact segment. One strength in this area is choice for the consumer. Think about it: Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, GMC, Mazda, Isuzu. More competition means better quality and products for us. That's good! If GM leaves the compact market, that's bad! We'll see...
On a releated note, I read somewhere that if the next gen S10 does go to a midsize, the V8 will be the same 4.8L currently offered with the Silverado.

woody2269

Ok, I feel better knowing your thought process on the topic. *whew* Imagine if they did put a 4.8 v8 in a ZR2....hmmmmm....the drool is forming already....*LOL*

cthompson21

Ford, too, has also been building V8 Ranger concept vehicles. The Special Vehicle Team has a finished 351 Ranger sitting one of their garages. The Ford Tremor was built with a high output 4.6L V8, which could be used to power a Ranger. There had to be some sort of concerns that kept these trucks off the market (and V8 S10s too).

xena1a

Good, I'm glad. I'm certainly not a GM hater. In fact, I very much admire their truck engines. As much as I am enjoying my B-Series, I will admit that there is just something about those good 'ol Vortec V6 or V8 OHV's...
Yea, the 4.8L in a ZR2 would be something to behold. Although most Silverado owners opt for the 5.3L, I have heard some real good stuff about the 4.8L. If the S10 goes up to a midsize, seems like this engine would be a natural for it...

xena1a

Man, a Ranger with a V8. Would LOVE to see that one too!!!

woody2269

Completely agree, but honestly, I really don't think that they'll go to the midsize....they are doing too well in compacts to do that!! Call me a power freak, but the more power that the truck has....oooo!!

xena1a

Yes, we all crave more power from our truck engines. I know us Ranger/B-Series types are drooling at the prospect of the SOHC 4.0L upgrade due in the 2001 model. And we can always dream about a V8 in our compact trucks, can't we? How's that ZR2 doing this week? Hope you didn't have anymore unfortunate problems with it...

allknowing

Until I read some of the responses in the category "1998 Chevy ZR2 S-10 P/U" I was beginning to be convinced that Chevy's quality might be improving. Chevy10, eaglexxx, etc. had be going. Looks like they were trying to blame the poor quality on NAFTA. I guess the Chevy guys continue to live in denial and make excuses for way below average, or should I be bold enough to say unacceptable, quality. The problem is not NAFTA but rather GM's refusal to be serious about meeting the competitions efforts.

woody2269

Well, the truck is going ok. Looks have always been great, but looks extra good because I gave it a real good bath....*s* Just waiting for something else to go wrong though, breaks are getting a little soft AGAIN!! Like I said though, he's a beaut!!

tacoma_trd

First of all, all chevy s-10 suck, they are too unreliable and dont last long enough, they have the least powerful 4 cyl of any compact pickup, the ford 4.0L is much better than the 4.3 chevy becuase of the option of a 5-speed automatic, still a tacoma 4x4 is the best truck out there

xena1a

tacoma_trd was obviously on speed. He bounced all over various topics, entered a few incoherent words, then disappeared. The only problem was, he could'nt seem to make up his mind about anything. First he says he owns a B2500, then a Ranger. Then he says he is interested in a Prerunner, then a 4x4 Tacoma, but first he wants to drive a Ranger with the 4.0L SOHC. Then he says the 4.0L is better than the 4.3L because of the 5 spd auto tranny. Blah, Blah, Blah. Just consider the source...

superjim2000

Yeah after putting up my response then seeing that on a few posts I thought the same thing, or its just some kid.

tacoma_trd

first of i think my username is confusing some people, if u were smart enough u would realize what i said was i owned a 98 B2500 which is the twin to ranger, right now I want to upgrade to possibly 4WD, if the price is too high, then a prerunner is what i will be looking at or a mazda Troy Lee, and who said i disappeared, I do have a life and do not spend my whole day on the internet waiting for a response, i am 19 also,not just some kid

xena1a

Guess he told us!!! Superjim, we better be much more careful. Tacoma_trd is obviously a force to be reckoned with...

woody2269

I have to ask for a little help on this one. My significant other is thinking about getting a Ranger (4x4, off road pkg, the whole sha-bang), and you have all heard me talk about my ZR2. I am SOOOO trying to talk him out of getting the Ranger, (because personally, I think that it is too small for him, MY bed is even bigger!!) so how do I do it? *L* What do you all suggest in general for a new compact truck? Anyone have any luck out there with ANYTHING?!

cthompson21

Why talk him out of or into buying a certain truck? What's best for you might not be best for him. Just give him any pertinent information that you may know about either truck.

If he does get a Ranger, tell him to wait until 2001. It will be available with the SOHC 4L producing 205hp and 235ft/lbs. The 2001/2002 S10 also sounds worth waiting for too.

BTW, I don't think that anyone considering a compact truck worries about bed space too much. If they did, they'd go full-size. Maybe you were looking at a short-bed ranger with the 6' bed. There is a long-bed ranger with a 7' bed. The ext-cab ranger can only be had with a 6' bed.

Later,
-C

ps I've had excellent "luck" with my previous two trucks, a '95 Ranger and a '98 Ranger.

xena1a

Is you significant other talking about trading in the ZR2? Or, do you get to keep the ZR2 and he gets his own truck? If the latter situation is the case, then I'm not sure I understand the dilemma. Owning a Ranger is not a bad thing. They are well built, capable, and a decent value. Cthomp has had two with good results. I own a B-Series (Ranger twin) and mine is a fine vehicle. Please keep us posted...

eagle63

hey tacoma_trd, what are the torque figures on that ford and toyota V-6? that's what I thought. -less than chevy's 4.3. The 4.3 is still the most powerful V-6 in compact pickups. It will rip apart that sad little excuse for a truck engine toyota puts in its tacoma.

modvptnl

I'm confused(what else is new) You've had more problems than most with your truck, you'd rather have a Dodge but you're soooo trying to talk someone out of a Ranger. I'd hate to see you two try to pick a China pattern..........Geeeez, women.

superjim2000

Yeah he told us....
Woody I'm on my 2nd S10, the first went 300,000 and had no major problems. My new one is great!!! Maybe you should look at Ford and Chevy, see what you like best and see what dealer will give you a better price. The Ranger and S10 have comparable bed length, right down to a sportside.

tacoma_trd

I dont know why xenala and superjim2000 had to say something in the first place, i just came onto the site asking some questions and voicing opinions just like everyone else, im a nice guy, there is no reason to discriminate me

tacoma_trd

i know the s-10 has more torque, the tacoma is probably the more worse engine(torque wise) of the 3, but the new 4.0L V6 in the rangers will easily compete with the 4.3L, but the fords offer torque at lower rpm which i think is better

superjim2000

And the Chevy doesnt give low rpm torque????????
I had to say something because you have no idea what you are talking about, trying to bash the S10. You were asking for it.

allknowing

Mr. Superjim, the guy has a right to his opinion and remember that he isn't alone bashing the S-10. Remember that Edmunds, the company that sponsors this forum, doesn't have much in the way of praise for the s-10 but does say a lot of good stuff about the Tacoma and the Ranger. The S-10 has the most torque for sure but is typically rated at the bottom in small truck reviews. As we discussed earlier, maybe the quality is getting better but the reviews don't seem to agree as of yet.

xena1a

We've gotten off to a bad start with you on this topic. I'm willing accept your statement from entry #151. If I have contributed to any animosity toward you, then I will accept the responsibility for it -- my bad. Yes, we are all expressing opinions here. I guess I just took exception to your words from #138: "First of all, all Chevy S-10's suck,..." I cannot speak for Superjim, but that is what got my dander up. And I'm not even an S-10 owner!!! All encompassing, generalized statements like that tend to be aggressively challenged. Consider this example: Let's say you do end up purchasing a Tacoma TRD and someone flames your new truck with words similar to the ones you used about the S-10. How would you take it? Many people, possibly you as well, would tend to get a bit defensive. Think about it. If you have issues with the S-10, then let's discuss them. Opinions and debate can be a good thing...

tacoma_trd

yea i guess you are right and i could have reworded the s10s suck thing a litter better, its just i have never had anyone I know have good luck with them, i have never really grown to like them, sure i think the ZR2 is a awesome looking truck, but I never saw anybody get their moneys worth, I have never owned one so I guess I cannot really make that assumption that all S-10's are bad trucks, I just dont think I would buy one

xena1a

Fair enough. Thank-you for your input...

superjim2000

I couldnt have said it any better than what you did in your post #155.
allknowing yeah hes entitled to his opinion, read xenala's post, thats what bothered me, when the new kid came in and said that ALL of em sucked.

xena1a

We are all passionate about out trucks. That is a good thing. It keeps discussions lively and interesting. Sometimes our passion can get a little misdirected. I'm as guilty as anyone...