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Comments
For a moment, let's forget about conveyence fees, taxes etc. Also, disregard dealer discounts if you wish and just compare MSRP.
Assume most buyers finance their purchase...so, at MSRP you have Accord at $27,850 and Sonata at $21,495. To me, that $6000+ is more than a "bit more" for the Accord, especially as a % of purchase price. Want to consider dealer discounts? I think Hyundai dealers are more likely to offer better discounts than Honda dealers.
Both Hyundai and Honda may change their current rebate situation in the future. A buyer has to measure the market at the time he is ready to buy.
Something like 20 years ago, Honda's were really "hot"
in CT and were selling for a lot more than MSRP and there was a waiting list. That's not the case today. As others have said, competition is great for the buyer.
But don't get me wrong. If you think the Accord is worth paying an extra $6,000 for, buy it and hopefully you'll enjoy it.
As far as 70,000 miles from now is concerned, with Hyundai you are still under warranty.
Thanks for the "help". Try to avoid the patronizing attitude bordering on the appearance of sarcasm. My understanding about the 2003 and 2004 Accord transmission problems is that the 5-sp transmissions in these vehicles are a brand new design. Their early troubles were addressed through a Honda "voluntary action" campaign, not an NHTSA recall. If you have contrary information specific to these 5-sp trannies, I'd like a link or an NHTSA camapign number. The Elantra exhaust manifold issue did relate to the component's being part of the listed emissions control devices. Since a cracked manifild can leak untreated exhaust gasses ahead of the catalytic converter and oxygen sensor, Hyundai's "voluntary action" that you implied, may have had a basis per an NHTSA (the possibility of toxic gasses entering the passenger cabin) or an EPA campaign - the jury's still out unless you have evidence otherwise.
While you are looking up the NHTSA campaign for the Accord, why not look for the campaign number on the Elantra's exhaust manifold? Then you can prove to yourself that there is no connection between the NHTSA and this voluntary action by Hyundai. And we can go back to talking about the four cars in this discussion.
Agree. Using C&D's figures per thousand RPM engine speed I got 1,887 for the Honda V6 and 1,923 for the Hyundai V6, respectively. (The real final drive ratios are a product of the axle ratio and the fifth-gear overdrive ratio - ~2.30, Honda V6, and ~2.40, Hyundai V6.) That's only a 36 RPM difference at 60 mph; 42 RPM difference at 70 mph. Honda may have under-engineered its AT's second cog, but the problems weren't due to the company under-reving the engine. The additional direct oil jet may be the only alteration needed to help that gear keep its cool, but if not, there's always the option of a larger transmission fluid cooling section in the lower radiator tank that would probably achieve any necessary additional cooling. Honda doesn't screw up very often, but this one bit 'em in the butt, bigtime.
Some recalls aren't official safety recalls, but "service campaigns" or the like, to fix defects that aren't necessarily safety-related. Then there are emissions-related recalls, in which the vehicle may not comply with emission standards. I believe most of the latter are "voluntary" as well.
Very few recalls are "forced" or "ordered" by NHTSA (which requires a court order) against the manufacturer's wishes. The last one I remember was in the 80s for the infamous GM X car premature rear brake lockup issue, where GM prevailed in court. The federal judge in the case, Thomas Penfield Jackson, took an unconscionably long time to issue a ruling, and when he did, it was the wrong one, IMO.
http://www.northpeel.com/br/business/story/3065957p-3556772c.html
Not bad for a Hyundai.
mmm...
I don't know...
I saw a Scoupe the other day which has to be at least 10 yrs old and that thing had barely any rust at all, and i live in Chicago where all the streets are salted.
I'm actually very impressed with how the front came out.
The Civic is a brand new design so I expect depreciation to be minor like other hondas. The Camry design is dated and will change next year, making this the last year for this design which will increase the rate of depreciation.
But, the Camry is generally a bigger, more expensive car so I "think" that it will be worth more over the years but am not certain.
But what about the additional cost of a Camry? Well, the Honda dealers in the area have market adjustments of $995 to $2495 above MSRP. :surprise: I suspect that I can get it for MSRP though. I can get a deal on a Camry right now that is roughly $500 more than the MSRP of the Civic.
If your mother is planning to keep the car for 5 years or more, don't worry about depreciation.
The Camry at $500 higher than Civic's MSRP, if you have to pay MSRP for a Civic, appears to be a much better deal.
Since you're looking at a Civic, take a look at a Hyundai Elantra and see how much you'll save up front. The same for Sonata vs Camry.
I wouldn't go for a first generation Civic since its a new design and there could be flaws Honda might have to fix. I also wouldn't go for the Camry since the new design is going to be out soon and I also find the Camry to be dated in many ways. Its competition is a already a step ahead. I would suggest you cross shop other vehicles (Accord, Elantra etc. *If you need suggestions, just ask)
Also, does your mom care a lot about space? The Camry is a lot bigger than the Civic. But the Civic has a much more enjoyable drive.
Depreciation is not a problem for most Honda's and Toyota's so I wouldn't worry about that.
If you were to give me two choices to choose from (Camry and Civic) I would go for the Civic (personally) since it has more standard safety equipment (side curtain airbags, active head restraints) and the overall package is more appealing to me. If she wants a solid sedan, that is easy to maintain and does everything well. The Camry is still a good choice. I strongly suggest you check out other sedans before you make your decision.
For a moment, let's forget about conveyence fees, taxes etc. Also, disregard dealer discounts if you wish and just compare MSRP.
Assume most buyers finance their purchase...so, at MSRP you have Accord at $27,850 and Sonata at $21,495. To me, that $6000+ is more than a "bit more" for the Accord, especially as a % of purchase price"
Why are you comparing MSRP of the Accord to TMV of the Sonata?
Without clouding the issue with TMV, we have Accord MSRP $27,850 (no rebates) for a net MSRP of $27,850. Sonata MSRP $23,495 ($1,000 rebate for all and $1,000 additional rebate for financing thru HMFC) for a net of $21,495.
Run a TMV test for yourself...just be sure to consider the $1,000 HMFC rebate which isn't included in Edmund's TMV "because it isn't for all" (those who don't finance).
Accord TMV $26,679. Sonata TMV (after financing discount) $20,446. No matter how you look at it, an Accord comparable to a Sonata costs over $6,000 more. Hyundai also offers an additional $1,000 rebate for current Hyundai owners regardless of which model Hyundai they currently own.
Theoretically, I should be able to buy an '06 Sonata LX for about $19,446.
Gee, we could be looking at a real world price difference of $7,200 or so!
One thing is certain, it looks a whole helluva lot better than the XG. I think the exterior styling of the XG was its Achilles Heel. It drove pretty well and was an exceptional value (loaded for a low price), but it was a double bagger if you know what I mean.
Also, you can finance with Hyundai to get the extra $1,000 rebate and then refinance with your credit union. The higher interest rate that you would pay for only 2 or 3 weeks would be minimal. The Hyundai financing should net you a savings of at least $900, probably more.
$3350 off MSRP on an Accord does sound like an excellent deal. Just check all the charges to be sure the price includes destination and any conveyence charges. Some dealers will low ball on the "price" and then load up the contract with other items.
If the real-world price difference is indeed 500, that makes the Civic tremendously over-priced and the Camry a bargain.
Check the net about new Honda Civic.. prices have jumped and some folks are peeved...
Good luck!
Drive one - no big deal, altho a decent ride.
godeacs, "Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion" #955, 14 Nov 2005 11:50 pm
The 2006 Accord just came out. With most cars, it takes a bit for prices to settle. In general, Accords can be had for invoice, sometimes less. Honda likes to give manufacturer to dealer incentives that it doesn't publish to the general public.
Give it a couple months, and you should be able to get a 2006 Accord EX-V6 auto for $25,000.
I agree though, that the Sonata LX is an excellent deal, at $4000 less street price.
I live in CT and bought my '05 in Naples (where my parents live) last April. O'Brien Hyundai seems to do quite well selling Hyundai's. Naples is mostly senior citizens and mostly pretty comfortable to mega bucks. Yet Hyundai does well? Why? Maybe it's value. In my two full days in Naples, I saw more Hyundai's on the road than I did Honda's. Maybe it was just a case of where I was at any given time.
"Looking at a Hyundai just is not on ANY senior citizen's list" may apply to your small circle of friends. The real world tells a diferent story. Do your friends enjoy getting ripped off by paying more than MSRP?
Uninformed people, regardless of age, often laugh at those who are more informed.
That's like any car's October introduction offering rebates starting in Feb. or March. I don't see anything unusual in that.
On the other hand I haven't been aware of seeing any '06 Accords, Camry's or the Fusion. Maybe I went past some but just didn't notice.
I don't have the numbers in front of me now, but here goes from memory. All numbers below are total US sales from 1/1/05 through 10/31/05, so most will be 2005 models, even for the Sonata, which came out in May. So of course you won't see many '06 Sonatas or certainly Fusions on the road. You can't tell '06 Camrys from the '05s.
Sonata: 95K
Camry: 335K
Fusion: 4K (all 2006 models, sales started in October)
Accord: roughly 280K (don't quote me on this one)
This was an SE V6 model. Six-speed auto -- nice, but you can manually select only D and L -- what's up with that? I hated it on my Sable when you could choose only Overdrive, 3, and 1.
No stability control at any price. ABS is optional, while Accord, Camry, and Sonata have it standard. Rear head restraints are a joke -- too low for me, and I'm short. (They're just little foam extensions on the seat back - nonadjustable.) Maybe the higher trimlines have real head restraints?
Some auto writer said the grille was billet aluminum. Ha, it's plasti-chrome, just like everyone else uses (except pickup bumpers, which use old-fashioned chrome-plated steel).
The HVAC rotary dials are buried in the "hold" just above the center console -- that's real convenient!
And C&D was right about the instrument cluster -- the painted circles at the base of the indicator needles draw your attention to the wrong end of the needles.
Plus they're right about the hood: the gap between it and the grille makes it appear that it's not fully closed.
The Mazda6, as everyone knows is the basis for the Fusion, looks much sharper than this car.
The real joke is trying to palm this car off as a Lincoln, for just under $30K, same engine and all! (For that price, you do get ABS.)
Lexus and Toyota, in that order I believe, sell the most vehicles per dealership.
But I'm not impressed so far.