Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

travler

In order to evaluate a vehicle today, it's important to look at the history. The manufactures whole line up, and the previous models will give you a preview of what to expect on the latest models.

Example: in the Annual Auto Issue, Consumer Reports magazine for 2005, page 87, the Sonata was rated worse-than-average in 2000, average in 2001 and 2002, better-than-average in 2003, and 2004. Then check out the Electra, Accent, Santa Fe, G300, XG350. Same story.

Also, most vehicles will show better than average the first and maybe second year. What will these vehicles look like when they're 3, 4 and 5 years old? You know the answer if it's a Camry?

Now check out the Camry on page 92. Almost spotless reliability since 1997. Check out all other Toyota models. Same story. Better-than-average across the board for years.

Where would you put your thousands and thousands of dollars?
A sure thing, or an up-and-coming, maybe with a spotty history.
I don't even own a Camry. I'm just looking at the facts.

PS. The 2006 report isn't out yet, but I highly recommend it.

zen2

The LX SE is not a stripped car? Just add a tranny?
I doubt many reading this board can even drive a stick.

travler

Another main issue is resale. you'll loose major dollars when you're done with the Sonata. ALG hit's them pretty hard. You can go to Kelly Blue Book or anyother site to check out your potential loss. Is it worth the risk? :confuse:

zen2

Where did you get those numbers? The average
household(not per capita) income in my area is less
than 40K. Does this average in Bill Gates and Michael
Dell, and Eliason in with the rest of us? This might
skew it up just a little. Perhaps the median per capita
income might be a better indicator than average.

backy

You will lose major dollars when it comes time to sell any of these cars. They are not an appreciating asset. I fail to understand the risk you are talking about with the Sonata. If you buy a car for thousands less than the alternative, what difference does it make if the resale value is less, as long as the savings up front balance the increased depreciation? What about the increased risk of buying a car with a 3-year bumper-to-bumper warranty and 5-year powertrain warranty vs. one with 5 years and 10 years, respectively? Keep in mind that the probability of failure of a Camry is not zero.

lightfootfl

Let's quit this mess of economics or finances or whatever and get back to talking about cars vs cars like it topic calls for . It is nice to see all of you intelligent people are here, it's too bad you don't know how to stick to the topics given as a guide for us. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

goodegg

Yup - resale - who cares if you're gonna keep the car 5-6 years. But in that time frame its nice to have the sublime environment of the Honda Accord EX around you to comfort you through the slings and arrows of the long term, daily grind. I'd check out the top end Camry too - sure to be top shelf - except for the big ole blob in the middle of the grill. Whats's up with that?

thegraduate

I have the standard EX, it comes without Leather. It is an option, hence the "EX-L."

w9cw

As a 2006 Hyundai Elantra owner - who will also purchase a new Sonata in the next 12 months - I recently calculated the depreciation differential between an Elantra GLS and a Civic LX. I normally keep a car for at least 10 years. At the 5 year level, the Civic had a +$2K differential on the retail value over the Elantra. But, this doesn't factor in the initial positive cash flow differential gained by buying the Elantra at a price substantially below its MSRP due to rebates, dealer incentives, etc. At the 10 year level, there is no difference in retail value between an Elantra or Civic.

Thus, if one keeps a car for 8 to 10 years, resale value differentials are really a moot point. However, I also submit Hyundai's historically poor resale value is improving with each new model release, and eventually "may" even approach the levels of Honda and Toyota. Time will tell . . .

kdhspyder

However, I also submit Hyundai's historically poor resale value is improving with each new model release, and eventually "may" even approach the levels of Honda and Toyota. Time will tell . .

This is very likely but it doesnt happen in a vacuum. The reason it happens is that the original transaction price must start to come up higher. Here is the dynamic one has to consider.

For arguments sake consider both a Sonata and an Accord, similarly equipped but one sells new for $20000 and the other for $17000. The USED Car retail price has to show some discount in both cases. If a 3 y.o. model of each is available would you pay $14000 for the Accord if a new one was going for $20000 or would you pay $14000 for the Sonata if a new one was going for $17000? You'd probably want a bigger discount on the 3 y.o. Sonata to reflect the same $6000 discount.

Until the original transaction price comes up the resale price cant come up. The former is the cause of the latter.

Yes in 10 yrs both are going to be worth about $1500 and I agree that the resale discussion is moot.

lweiss

The Volvo is typically of the European makes- good features and ergonomics, great handling, fabulous seats, very safe...and a maintenance nightmare!!! And not only the big things, but things like radios that fail, power windows, power antennas, and the list goes on- all of which are very expensive in parts and labor. But hey, I tried one.

I have eliminated Hyundai but then again, I saw their new model (Azura or something), a step up from Sonata at an auto show and it looked spectacular for the money- about $27K they said. But the Accord EX and Ford Fusion look like contenders.

Thanks all for the advice- good stuff!!!

gujuguy

This forum is turning out to be boring with all irrelevant economics talk.

I just don't understand why anybody would buy Sonata for 16000 if they can get Camry LE for 17000. You are paying 6% premium for peace of mind, excellent reliability record (just check consumer records, JD power or any damn magazine and you will know the quality difference between Toyota and Ford. Just show me one magazine that criticizes Toyota's quality) decent looks, better resale value etc.

Instead of illogical comments like "Toyota sucks" or "ugly and boring", give me something to think about before I pull plug on 2007 camry.

I still believe there should be separate forum for camry and accord. They are top notch. It will take 5 years for Sonata and Fusion to compete with the leaders.

bhmr59

You've hit the nail on the head, kdhspyder!

Resale is a function of what a new, same car, is selling for at the time of trade/resale. If "A" cost $3,000 more than "B" to buy new and is worth $3,00 more at resale time the only price differential is what one could do with the $3,000 in the intervening period (or interest cost on $3,000 of financing).

If, in a couple of years, "B's" new price increases more than "A's" new price, "B" could show an improvement in resale value; or vice versa.

Resale value should be a non-issue unless plans to keep a car for a couple years or less. I think the whole "resale value" thing was made up by GM back in the 50's or 60's as a way to sway a basically unformed public into buying their new cars (they could inflate the trade in value of GM cars and low ball the trade in value of other manufacturers). It worked for them decades ago and many still buy into this bologna because "that's the way it has always been."

Best advice to those considering Sonata, Accord, Camry or Fusion...check them all out; test drive and get a brochure. Then go home and compare your impressions of each and review the brochure for equipment. Don't fall in love with a car or make a rush decision. Analyze the pros & cons objectively, not emotionally. All these cars should be good. You and a friend may make different choices, but neither of you should get burned.

gujuguy

Dont just assume that camry and accord are $5000 more. Try to negotiate a bit and you will be in range of 1000-2000 of sonata particularly 2006 camry. Dont get discouraged by rude dealerships, sometimes they are genuinely busy.

Just taking test drive is not enough. (Bose spearkers might sound good at BestBuy but after elongated period it might sound too light (lot of treble)) You have to consider manufacturers' other models' history. Just look at Toyota's lineup, its luxury version Lexus is the leader, its Tundra is good, Scion is doing good business, Sienna is one of the best minivan, 4runner rocks, Corrolla is the highest selling car model in the world. And you thought camry is not good. Why take risks with your money if you can buy proved car for 10% premium.

If you really want something different than dependable family car, you would not be on this forum anyway.

backy

If I could get a Camry or Accord for only $1000 more than a Sonata, comparably equipped, I would be very tempted to do that (moreso with the Accord, or the 2007 Camry if it drives good). But tell me, where can I get a new '06 Accord LX V6 or Camry XLE V6 for $16,500 + T&L? That is what it would take to put the Accord or Camry within $1000 of what I can get a comparably-equipped Sonata for in my town. For a 4-cylinder model, the price would need to be about $15k for an automatic Accord LX or Camry LE, and the LE would need to have VSC and side bags/curtains.

gujuguy

Personally I haven't researched V6 models, but while looking for 4 cylinder version for my relative, I found that Sonata was costing me around 1000 less.

I highly advice you to go to carsdirect and check for yourself. Here is what I found:

GLS for 17900 and GL for 16500, at the same time Camry LE is 17400

Now its no brainer. I am sure somebody will come up with stupid comment like Hyudai will beat camry in 5 years. But for me, I don't care, I want something reliable and good for my 17000, whether its toyota, ford or chevy. These are huge corporations, they will screw you whenever they get chace, so dont get emotional to any company. Toyota makes best cars these years so I will buy their cars, if Ford improves quality (and stop gimmicks like employee pricing, take liability for explorer debacle, makes fuel efficient cars...) I will buy Ford.

gujuguy

i just checked carsdirect, you can get v6 sonata for 18900 and camry v6 for 20200. Its 1300 difference that you pay for better car.

bhmr59

carsdirect.com is a buying service and they are not non-profit.

check fitzmall.com, you can get a Sonata GLS 6 cyl for 16,762. this is a real world price. now the difference is over $3400 (plus the sales tax differential).

better car?...that's a matter of personal opinion. admittedly, Hyundai's great improvement only started a few years ago, so long term tests of cars more than 5 years old are looking at a creature that has evolved.

gujuguy

then camry v6 should be around 19500, so difference is 2500, still good enough for most of us to go with camry.

bhmr59

fitzmall also has Sonata GLS 4 cyl @ 15,927. actual dealer, that's their price, plus $99 doc. fee.

others have posted here that they went to Fotzmall and there was no BS...a straight as promised deal.

zen2

Your prices are inaccurate. I got the GLS V6 for 18K,
not the GLS. A similarly equipped Camcord would be
at least 6 to 8K more not 1K.

zen2

Are you saying you can get a Camry LE with VSC, alloy
wheels, ABS, fog lamps, automatic transmission,
etc. for 17K? Where? And don't they still have a 3 yr
warranty? Don't forget to add 1K for the additional
warranty.

I just priced out a similarly equipped Camry on this site,
and it listed the price as 20,646. That is for a 4cyl.
So, it looks like 5K difference, not 1K. Oh, 6K, if you
want the equivalent warranty.

bhmr59

No. You cannot take a % of MSRP of any brand and apply that same % to another brand. You have to check prices for the actual make, model and trim level to see the actual street price.

And, $2500 less for a car with more equipment, better warranty, > build quality is nothing to sneeze at for many people. Heck, $2500 is about 23 payments out of the 60 payments on my '05 Sonata.

Add in a flat income for the past year + a $400 increase in home (property) tax + and extra $100 per month on home equity loan (thanks to the Fed raising interest rates) + large increase in cost of home heating + relatively low increase in cost of gasoline (I only drive around 7500 miles per year) and you'll see that $2500 is real money. It's sure enough to sway me for a car that is arguably as good. In fact, I flew from CT to FL last April to buy my car, have a connection in FL, to save a net $1500 compared to what the local guy wanted for the same car.

If the only payment I had to be concerned with was a car payment I probably wouldn't blink an eye at a price difference of $10,000, never mind your incorrect difference of $2500.

backy

Sometimes in doing the price comparisons people forget that the Sonata has more standard equipment than the other cars in this discussion. Once you compare cars with comparable equipment, the price difference becomes greater.

sonatame

I agree with backy, option to option is a much better way to compare these cars than just model name to model name. I have a Sonata LX, which has everything but the sunroof/cd changer option and my fiance has the Accord EX with sunroof and cd changer. If I would have added the sunroof option to equal out luxery comforts, I still would have paid $8000 less for my 2006 versus her 2004.

pat

I still believe there should be separate forum for camry and accord.

We have a long-running Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry discussion. It's been pretty quiet lately, but feel free to jump in and give it a kick-start. It can certainly co-exist with this one.

goodegg

You can compare option to option but you forget about the total package. I don't feel Hyundai builds as nice a car as Honda. A car is more than just a bunch of options coming together.

$8000 price difference? You must have been ripped off. A loaded EXV6 can be had for $25K. Sure its more than the loaded Sonata but many feel (like me) its a much better car. And you can be sure Honda's redo coming up will raise the bar. Probably be TSX-like with a much lower sticker (TSX sales are booming).

cxc

It is interesting that Edmunds’s User Ratings for these cars are largely in line with those of CR.

Edmunds’ User Rating

Passat – 9.6 by 94 reviewers
Sonata – 9.4 by 215 reviewers
Accord – 9.4 by 85 reviewers
Fusion – 9.2 by 34 reviewers
Camry – 9.1 by 30 reviewers
Altima – 9.1 by 32 reviwers

CR Ratings

EXCELLENT:
1. Volkswagen Passat 3.6 ($33,315)
2. Honda Accord Hybrid ($30,655)
3. Volkswagen Passat 2.0T ($27,440)
4. Toyota Camry XLE V6 ($27,680)
5. Honda Accord EX V6 ($27,365)

VERY GOOD:
6. Honda Accord EX I4 ($23,800)
7. Ford Fusion SEL V6 ($26,025)
8. Hyundai Sonata GLS V6 ($22,995)
9. Toyota Camry LE 2.4 ($22,065)
10. Nissan Maxima 3.5SE ($33,080)
11. Nissan Altima 3.5SE ($28,280)
12. Hyundai Sonata GLS 2.4 ($21,345)
13. Ford Five Hundred SEL ($27,510)
14. Mazda6 i ($21,930)
15. Mercury Milan Base 2.3 ($20,415)
16. Mazda6 s ($27,790)
17. Toyota Prius ($23,490)
18. Chevrolet Malibu 2.2 ($20,125)
19. Chevrolet Malibu LS 3.5 ($22,460)
20. Nissan Altima 2.5S ($24,380)
21. Mitsubishi Galant GTS 3.8 ($27,094)
22. Chevrolet Impala 3LT 3.9 ($26,840)

The more expensive of a car, it may not be better. One can get a Sonata LX, which is about the same as Accord EX I4 or V6 according to CR and Edmund's User reviews, for $18,792 from Fitzmall.

snakeweasel

You will love that Elantra, I have a 2000 Elantra Wagon and it has been great. only real problem was that a sensor went out at about 130K.

The resale issue is not as bad as many people claim and is really a non issue if you keep the car for a long time. I researched my Elantra against a 2000 Honda that retailed for about the same price and found that the Honda was only a few hundred more in value. No biggie. So enjoy your Elantra and don't worry about resale values.

ontop

Actually the Accord re-do has been rumored to look like the Sports 4 concept car unveiled at the Tokyo auto show. And it is a beautiful thing. Makes all the others in this comparo look like they're styled from the 90s.

ontop

What percentage of people buy a car based on what these rags say? 5%? Car dealers will tell you the guy that comes into the store smoking a pipe and has CR tucked under his arm makes up a very small percentage of purchasers. Sure you research your purchase, but when you get in the cars, and the aroma hits you, and the engine whirls, and the door thuds when you close it... that's what you buy. The sizzle - not the steak.

lightfootfl

Do all or any of these vehicles have a "theft device" to prevent movemnt of the vehicle or is it just an alarm, noise maker? :confuse:

snakeweasel

I don't feel Hyundai builds as nice a car as Honda.

I know a few Honda owners that will disagree with you on that one. My son in law is looking at replacing his Honda soon and he is considering a Hyundai, funny thing is he isn't considering another Honda. I know a few other Honda owners that now consider a Hyundia as a possible replacement for their Hondas based on positive experiences of Hyundai owners.

thegraduate

Do all or any of these vehicles have a "theft device" to prevent movemnt of the vehicle or is it just an alarm, noise maker?

I know that the Accord has an immobilizer for the engine if the original car key isn't used to crank it, or the stereo is removed improperly. I dunno about the others, but I can assume that at least the Camry does (I think so...?)

zodiac2004

Yes in 10 yrs both are going to be worth about $1500 and I agree that the resale discussion is moot.


KDH, find me a 96 Accord for $1500, will you.

w9cw

The reference was to a 10 year old Civic, not Accord.

alpha01

Hertz has been really good about honoring my vehicle requests lately, and next week, I'm scheduled to have a Sonata GLS V6. Having experience with the car in Hyundai's Head to Head roadshow this summer, and having been EXTREMELY impressed, this should give me a bit more of a feel for the vehicle.

Still waiting for the IIHS results...

~alpha

kdhspyder

The Camry also has an engine immobilizer. It's a better anti-theft device than an alarm for the vehicle itself if not for the contents inside where the alarm might be better.

kdhspyder

OK..

Today's VA Pilot, www.pilotonline.com, there are three 95/96 Accords in the classifieds where the owners are asking about $4000.

If they were traded to a store the real 'value' would be about $500-1500 depending on condition, etc.

Two years ago I traded my '97 4c AT Camry LE, 185000 mi, here for $2000 needing some transmission work. Without the tranny problem I was going to sell it in the paper for ~$4500.

94hawkskin

It is interesting that Edmunds’s User Ratings for these cars are largely in line with those of CR.

Edmunds’ User Rating

Passat – 9.6 by 94 reviewers
Sonata – 9.4 by 215 reviewers
Accord – 9.4 by 85 reviewers
Fusion – 9.2 by 34 reviewers
Camry – 9.1 by 30 reviewers
Altima – 9.1 by 32 reviwers

Look at how many reviewers have reviewed the Sonata. I know that it has probably been out longer, but it still has a lot more than the 2006 Camry, which has been out since Aug???

This further proves my point, that a lot of people on Edmunds research their vehicles longer than other car buyers and once they do they come back to the Sonata. You get the best bang for your buck with this car hands down. This is why there are more Sonata supporters on this forum.

badgerfan

Edmunds user ratings are likely the one of the least reliable sources of information, since anyone, even someone who probably doesn't own the car in question can post there and dump on a particular vehicle. You can drive down ratings pretty quickly if you post a 1.0 rating against a bunch of possibly more valid ratings by less biased actual owners.

Statistically speaking, these review ratings are essentially useless, except for entertainment purposes.

ontop

proves my point

Proves what point? That you and 10 other Edmunds readers bought a Sonata and post here.

Go ahead and pat each other on the back now....

baggs32

A little off topic but here's a new take on the #1Passat from those lists.

zodiac2004

The reference was to a 10 year old Civic, not Accord

You are wrong, the reference was to an Accord.

Be that as it may, find me a Civic (in average shape/miles) for 1500.

pat

You are not correct about that. The reviews are moderated by folks who take that job very seriously. Only the ones that have every indication of being written by actual owners are posted. The review must be about the actual vehicle, not an appraisal of the buying experience or a single-issue complaint or other things that don't have to do with actual owners' experiences driving the car.

Yes, we all have to take everything with a grain of salt - it's certainly possible for the review moderators to be fooled - but the process is not as unmindful as you imply.

pat

A challenge to a salesperson to purchase a vehicle under certain conditions and a promise to post a vehicle for sale under those conditions are not appropriate.

These Forums may not be used to buy or sell anything - see your Membership Agreement linked on the left side of the page, or drop me an email for clarification.

Thanks.

jpnewt

History says your wrong, there isn't a 10 year old Hyundai now that you can get $1500.00 for. Just for reference I did a 1996 Hyundai Elantra Wagon and Sedan vs. a Civic LX. Wagon fair value $400.00 Sedan $288.00 Civic fair $1490.00.
Wagon good value $750.00 Sedan $425.00 Civic good $2090.00.
Yes I understand INITIAL Quality is better but way to soon to say that Hyundai will stand the test of time and that's why people will still spend the extra money. And on that note it's amazing how the price descrepency keeps getting bigger and bigger. Try using the same methods on each car. Don't use invoice on the Sonata with rebate and MSRP for the Accord. Really we are not that stupid. That last part is not directed soley on you spyder.

kdhspyder

Yep youre right.. sorry. too quick reply without thinking. What's the phrase.. engage brain before applying pressure to keyboard

pat

Heh ... I have that problem myself!

w9cw

zodiac2004: My reference in an earlier post to a 10 year depreciation comparison was between a Civic and Hyundai Elantra - not an Accord. This was calculated on an average of Edmunds, KBB, and NADA. And, I actually specified a higher value for both - not $1,500. Thus, at least with the post I was referring to, I was not wrong. Perhaps you were reading another post.

I can find plenty of 10 year old Civic LX sedans here for between $1,500 and $2,000. And, here is in Illinois.