Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

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Comments

  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    It handles far better than either the Camry or Acccord especially at high speed

    Do you have any evidence to support that statement? I believe the Accord is a better handler. It is not far better than the Sonata, but it is better. In the C&D comparison, it tied with Hyundai in road handling. But beat it in the emergency-lane test.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    It handles far better than either the Camry or Acccord especially at high speed.

    Wrong - maybe as good as a Camry but the Accord is definitely the best handling small sedan in the bunch. Hands down. Drive one at high speed through the twists and turns instead of just guessing what its like. The 06 Sonatas I've driven were competent but uninspiring.

    Hyundai will never be number one in sales. Where do you come up with this stuff? Just wingin it?
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    BHMR59 said "Some people take pride in how MUCH they pay for something"

    This statement is very true in economics it is called "price inferred quality". You can take a perfume and sell it for $5.00 and no body buys it because they think it is cheap and poor quality. Take the same perfume and put a $100 price tag on it and it sells like crazy. People think assume because of he price it must be high quality.

    The concept works for anything else you are selling.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    This statement is very true in economics it is called "price inferred quality".

    Guess what - there are many many cars nowadays that are better than the Sonata. And some even cost more.

    Nice blanket statement. Totally dilutes your opinion.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    The Accord handles well no doubt but there is way too much sway to the body on turns and road noise too(I guess you would call that "feedback") is excessive. It is a good car no doubt and I would have bought one if the Sonata did't have all the extras especially safety wise. They also stand behind their product with a great warranty. Remember I am a Honda owner too so I can compare these vehcles on a day to day basis and do not have an inherent dislike of Honda. I just don't think we need genuflect everytime we here their name. They aren't that great.

    One day Hyundai will be number one in sales, not next year, or the next but it will happen.

    How many people in 1960 were saying Toyota was going to be number one in sales? Next year I predict Toyota will surpass GM as the number one car maker.
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    I've been critical of Ford lately but after seeing the Fusion, in and out I would say it is much better looking vehicle than a Sonata. And the price is very competitive to the Sonata. I'm tempted to go for it. The only remaining question for me is reliability. So I'll wait.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    I think you made a great post. But all things considered the Sonata bats outthe Accord.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    If people are dunb enough to spend thousands of dollars on any car and then trading it in after only a couple of years they deserve to lose all that money.

    People should keep their cars at LEAST 5 to 7 years and take that money they have saved and invest it in bonds, stocks, real estate and other asset appreciating investments. Cars go no where but DOWN in value.
  • travlertravler Member Posts: 138
    How old and how many miles on the Sonata? Time and miles will be the true test when comparing with either Toyota or Honda, or even a GM equivlant.

    Ever wond why they put a 10 year warranty on it. Is it transferable or original owner only?

    They may be improving, but my money is still going with a sure thing. I may change my mind when I see a steady history of quality improvement, but not yet.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    This statement is very true in economics it is called "price inferred quality".
    The concept works for anything else you are selling.


    Yes, this does apply to automobiles. But you have to account for the other factors that influence the consumers decision. Like me, I bought the Accord based on its merits. It offered good handling, IMO the best front seats and IMO the best interior. Those are some of the area's I value most in an automobile. After that, I look at the price. I was able to justify the extra amount of money because to me, the Accord was the best car.

    I'm not saying you do, but some people make the assumption that people buy the Camry and Accord based solely on its name or higher price. Yes, some people do, but not all.

    too much sway to the body on turns
    Actually, both C&D and other auto mags state that the Accord actually is too harsh, due to its tighter suspension. This is funny, some people say the Accord's suspension is too tight. But you say it's too soft.

    C&D comparison test: The suspension lacks the muscular control that gives the Honda such a sporting feel, and it lacks the plush-carpet smoothness that eases the Camry over Michigan's broken roads. Hey, benchmarks are very hard to beat. That said, the Sonata certainly behaves within the envelope of contemporary expectations.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    I don't disagree with you at all. I can see why people would buy the Accord it is an excellent car. And not everyone buys it because of the price inferred quality aspect.

    I also feel there is an inherent bias with many of the car reviewer organizations against American and Korean cars and certain makes of Japaneses cars. They always seem to rate Honda and Toyota ahead and there are many times I do not think it is warranted.

    I'll be honest with you too part of the reason I bought the Sonata (besides truly beliving in its quality and features) was to be a little different that the crowd. When the phone system broke up in the 80's I purposely joint Sprint so as not to follow the heard. Just my personality I guess.

    Good discussions! Finally!!
  • travlertravler Member Posts: 138
    Honda was proactive on their engine and transmission issues. They put a 100,000 warranty on all engine transmissions produced in this time frame, including Odysseys. They did not have to be forced to do so by the goverment. They eagerly addressed the problem.

    Also, compare the number of types of problems and occurances over a longer time period. Honda and Camry have so few that when they do have an issue everyone makes such a big deal out of it. It's so common with other models it doesn't even cause a ripple.

    Check again in the Consumer Report's Annual Auto Issue, april 2005. Accord hand moderate problems in transmissions in 2001 only. Fewer in previous years and none from 2002 on. And, it's better-than-average reliability from 1997 through 2004. (2006 isn't published yet)

    Camry had moderate engine problems in 1997, and fewer in 1998 and 1999, none from 2000 on. They did have some brake problems from 1997 through 2000. After that almost perfect reliability, and, better-than-average reliability from 1997 until 2004.

    Sonata, not recommended in 2000, average in 2001 and 2002, finially recommended in 2003 and 2004, but they may not have been around long enough. I would want to see longer term reliability.

    Hyundai is coming along, but they're not their yet.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    Yes I think this shows Sonata is the best car out there in just about every dimension.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    Why would they specifically pick the Sonata (and not some other car) and rank it so high. What purpose would that prove unless it were true.

    Have you drive a Hyundai - lately?
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    You are absolutely right I remeber "Made in Japan" was another word for junk. It took Toyota and Honda nearly 40 plus years to get to where ther are. Hyundai has done it in 20 and that are moving FAST very FAST.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    That's funny because the 2005 Sonata was rated the most trouble free car and Hyundai has a 56% return buyer rate the highest in the business.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=30&article_id=10584

    Toyota has the highest return buyer rate.

    ~alpha
  • jpnewtjpnewt Member Posts: 71
    Wow you predict Toyota to be #1 next year! What a stretch! How many TV shows and newspaper articles did you have to see before you came up with such a outlandish prediction!! :surprise:
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    Hey some are leaders and others are followers.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    I admit that prediction isn't going too far out on a limb LOL!!
  • jpnewtjpnewt Member Posts: 71
    Are we really discussing if the Sonata is a better car or if it is a perceived better value? If and I understand it is an "IF" the Accord and Camry were the same price as the Sonata would this discussion still be going on? Probably NOT.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    No I have never wondered why they have a 10 year warranty. They have one because they believe in their product. You wouldn't see Toyota or Honda with a warranty like that. It would cost them a fortune!!
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    Why would anyone buy a Camry or Accord if you could get a Sonata loaded with extras and other safety features atthe same price?
  • jpnewtjpnewt Member Posts: 71
    Two points here... the average length of ownership is probably around 3 to 3 1/2 years and then resale value does have a position in this conversation. Please also let me in on your stocks and bonds that have been performing so well lately and the real estate you can buy for around $4k. I guess three points... the Accord and Camry are always near the top in Cost Of Ownership so take that $4K you saved on a Hyundai lose $2K at least in resale and more in cost to maintain and then where is this great deal.
  • jpnewtjpnewt Member Posts: 71
    What extras could you possibly be talking about? And your Sonata has not even been tested and has NO more Saftey features than the Accord. By the way does your Sonata have a OPDS sensor? And do you even know what that is without looking it up. You might do some more light reading on the subject and then impress us with the idea that GM and Ford might be in trouble financially.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    My point was people are throwing away their money trading in their cars so quickly.

    The are a myriad of mutual funds that you can get into for as little as 1,000. The overseas markets have done exceedingly well this year. I am very happy with my returns. I was very plsd with the performance of my Franklin-Templeton Capital Accumulation fund. It has quite abit of European and South American holdings. Also Gold (you can buy under the symbol GLD) is really on a bull run for several reasons. I won't go into them all. REITS are a great way to invest in real estate but I would be real caution of real estate at this point. The unemployment rate dropped to 4.7% and I am very bullish on 2006.

    Do you realized if you bought $10,000 of GE stock in 1981 when Jack Welch took over as CEO and reinvested all your dividends and splits (adding no more money)it would have been worth $800,000 in 2001 when he left the company!

    Gee $800,000 or a new car - which should I pick? LOL!
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    They have done it for 20? For you maybe but for the rest of us they're not there yet.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    I am sorry I did not understand what you were saying in your post?
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    They have one because they needed one. Very few people will buy Hyundai without that warranty.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    I don't know if I agree "very few people" would buy a Hyundai without the warranty but you are right in that it is an enticement to buy one that I am sure has brought people in.
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    I did drove a Hyundai baqck in 2001-2003 and it was a "peas of sheet". All they've got to show are the 3 months IQS, the price and the warranty. I'll take a comparably equipt Accord or Camry than Sonata even if I have to spend a lot more, simply because the two former cars have more Japan made component and i trust it than a Korean made one.
  • travlertravler Member Posts: 138
    I sure don't see buying a Sonata as being a leading :confuse:

    I can "be a leader" in more constructive ways.....
  • travlertravler Member Posts: 138
    Read post #2612.
  • travlertravler Member Posts: 138
    They have one because they want YOU to believe in their product. They had to give that warranty to try to correct their horrible reliability issues. They had to build credibility.

    Check out intellichoices cost of ownership on any model you choose. And over a 5-year period, not just a 2003, 2004, or 2005.
  • travlertravler Member Posts: 138
    I think he was talking within the same time period that the average person trades his care in, not 20+ years ago.
  • jpnewtjpnewt Member Posts: 71
    Gee I think Gold is going for around $500.00? 4000. divide by 500. I still think that equals 4. Wohoo I'm rich!!
    Honestly I'm glad you are doing well with your investments but alot of people have started paying CASH for their vehicles because they are not making anything on their money now.
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    GM and Ford are in some sort of trouble thanks for the tip.
    I'll tell you one thing if you shorted their stock you'd be a millionaire now LOL!!!!

    Where do I start, no the Sonata does not have OPDS (or any other disease that I know of LOL!!!!) does the Accord have ESC with TCS? Does the Accord come with rear disc brakes, they come in handy when you want to stop LOL!

    Also a Sonata has been reclassified for 2006 as a "large" car which at least generally speaking is thought to be safer than the smaller "mid-size" car the Accord is.

    The Sonata automatically locks when you get going and when you got little rascals like me that is a BIG safety concern.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has actually tested both cars, for your information.

    Sonata rceived a 5 Star rating for frontal crash Driver and passenger and 5 Star rating for side crash for front and back passengers.

    Accord got a 5 star rating for frontal crash both driver and passenger and a FOUR (4) star rating for side crash for both front AND rear.

    You should also read Edmund's comparison it shows Sonata well ahead as well.

    Morale of the story, if you are in an Accord make sure you crash in the front (or just buy a Sonata) LOL!!!

    Here the links:

    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ncap/cars/3754.html

    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ncap/cars/3655.html

    Hope all this helps.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    My "Personal Banker" wouldn't touch it, she doesn't loan out money. Now the bank she works at will finace it, no problem.

    Now the interesting question is how did you research it?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    Oh I pay cash for my vehicles too. That's why I only buy one every 10 years or so I guess.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Not only is a Hyundai pratically worthless in 10 years, you probably won't find one that's still running. Do people really keep a Hyundai that long?

    Well 5.5 to 6 years and 133,000 miles on it and its still going strong. Only non routine maintenice that I ever done on it was a sensor that went out just a couple of weeks ago, I plan on driving it until it falls apart. I'll let you know when that happens.

    I know someone who is still driving a scoupe with well over 200k on it.

    Also tell me how many cars have much value in them at 10 years?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    This statement is very true in economics it is called "price inferred quality".

    Its also called snob appeal.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    Yep you are right that is what it bsically is.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Ever wond why they put a 10 year warranty on it.

    It's called standing behind their product. to be honest if I was building a well built car I would back it with a long warranty too.

    I wonder why Toyota and Honda don't match it, or beat it, if their cars are so much better.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    Amen! Preach on my Brother, Preach on!!
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    on the warranty issues. If Honda/Toyota are supposed to be so vastly superior then why don't they offer a 10 year like Hyundia?
    Although, I feel the Warranty is a all part of marketing. This Stigma of anything Hyundia is junk is fading, and quick. Honda should be more worried than anyone else.
    By the way, all those who are beating the death drum for Ford, can you tell me what profit Ford made worldwide last year? I'll give you a hint, they only lost money here in the U.S.... Surprise! Ford isn't going anywhere folks..
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We are supposed to be discussing the specific vehicles in the subject line, not the ups and downs and ins and outs of their manufacturers.

    Let me again (I have already done this, have I not?) invite those who are interested in debating the issues of the manufacturers themselves instead of these four specific vehicles to hop over to the News & Views board.

    Who wants to get back to talking about these cars?
  • stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    I can tell you their stock price went from 11 bucks (which ain't great to start with) to 7 bucks this year.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Stock values really are not on topic here ...
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    I've posted this many times, the NHSTA side impact test has flaws.

    For one thing, even though forces on the dummies' heads are measured, they aren't considered for the "star" ratings. Secondly, NHTSA counts only forces on the thorax and pelvis toward the ratings, even though head injuries cause the most deaths in real-world side impact crashes. Finally, their barrier simulates the front end of a car, so it's not high enough to strike the dummies' heads directly, as would be true for a large truck or SUV. Side airbags are most beneficial in protecting the head, by interposing a cushion between the intruding object and the head.
    So, wait until the IIHS releases their side tests -- much more informative.
    - 210delray

    If you look at the scores in the NHSTA test:
    The Accord had 216 and 397 for head injuries.
    The Sonata had 265 and 472 for head injuries.

    Like 210delray stated, IIHS tests are much better. The Accord received a good on the test with side curtain airbags.

    I am still waiting for the Sonata's score. It's been out longer than the Civic, and the GS's side impact scores just came out. I wonder why they haven't tested the Sonata. According to backy, it was suppose to be tested by the end of 2005.

    Possible reasons:
    1) to group results into "themes" so they can do a press release on a certain subject, or 2) the car doesn't do well and the manufacturer asks IIHS to hold up on publishing the results until they can make some mods for a re-test.- Backy

    I doubt the first one will apply. They just came out with the GS's side impact score. If they can release an article for just a side impact test for one vehicle. I don't see what's the problem with releasing the Sonata on its own.
    Could it be that the Sonata had a bad rating from IIHS? :surprise:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Here is the real world situation. Hyundai knows it, Nissan knows it, Ford knows it and even Honda knows it.

    The Camry is the benchmark and price leader. Whereever Toyota puts the Camry all the others have to find their place in the 'pecking order' below the Camry. That is the way all markets are structured.

    There is no way in this world Hyundai could come out and say its bread and butter Sonata is better than the Camry thus we are going to price it at $22500 ( +$500 over the Camry ) with no discounts or rebates. Their sales would go to one, stockmanjoe's. Hyundai understands that they are fifth in the pecking order and they have to price their product in this manner.

    Now Hyundai is not a charitable organization. It's here to make money. Consider what the benefit to the two companies is:
    Toyota sells 300,000+ base Camry's at ~ $20000
    Honda sells 200,000+ base Accords at ~$20000
    Hyundai sells 150,000+ base Sonata's ( loaded ) at ~$17000

    Disregarding the 'additional units above 150,000, Toyota and Honda each is making about half a Billion dollars more than Hyundai on just 150,000 units. The management of Hyundai know this, the Corp Sales Dept knows this, the Product Mgrs know this. when do you think they will want to get a piece of this pie that the CamCords have all to themselves. When they do decide to go toe-to-toe with the CamCords on price where do you think sales units will go?
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