The different EV/Glide modes on the HCH-II are important tools in increasing FE . The easiest way to describe them is to go through a scenario I typically use that engages all three of them in sequence. I’m going to use the shorthand “Regen”, “Glide” and “EV/Assist” for the 3 modes and refer to them in this manner throughout the rest of the article. Assume I'm cruising at 55mph on level highway:
“Regen” - This is what I always considered “coasting”. While at speed I simply lighten or remove my right foot from the accelerator pedal. The Charge display shows green bars indicating energy is being recaptured and is being used to charge the battery. Less foot pressure, faster deceleration => more bars in the Charge display, more “Regen” charge to the pack. The iFCD will move to the right and peg at 100 MPG . However, “Regen” slows me down more than I normally would in a non-hybrid car with standard ICE-braking. Even if heading downhill, I can feel the slowing effect of “Regen” on the car. In this mode as well as the next two, the ICE is still turning over with the transmission engaged, but the valves and injectors are closed and no fuel is being consumed. I also find the engine very quiet in all three modes.
Regen
Losing speed quickly with full “Regen”.
“Glide” - While watching the Charge display, I gently reapply pressure to the accelerator pedal and the regen bars start to disappear. When completely gone I am still “coasting” except now I’ve eliminated the drag caused by “Regen” and can coast much further without slowing as fast while the iFCD will continue to be pegged at 100 MPG . This is known as “Glide”. I can hold the “Glide” mode for a good distance, often several miles depending on terrain.
Glide
Still losing speed but at a much slower rate in “Glide”.
“EV-Assist” - While the iFCD is still pegged at 100 MPG and all “Regen” is cancelled, I continue gently applying pressure to the accelerator pedal until I see one or more gray bars appear in the Assist display. This indicates the electric motor is now assisting propulsion even though the ICE is not consuming fuel with its valves and injectors closed. I can hold this for at most, half a minute at a time at high speeds and the car will start to slow down even with foot pressure steady as a rock. This requires a fine foot-balancing act because given too much pressure the assist bars disappear, the iFCD drops, and a distinctive lurch happens as the ICE comes back online to help re-accelerate or maintain speed as well as consuming fuel once again. If I want to re-engage “EV-Assist” at these higher speeds, I have to start the process all over again with “Regen” to “Glide” to “EV-Assist”.
EV-Assist
Attempting to maintain a higher speed with “EV-Assist”. Using the Three Modes
Regen: I see “Regen” nearly every time I let up on the gas to slow down for a signal or stop sign, exit off the freeway, or go downhill. I can control the amount of “Regen” I want, basically trading off Charging the battery for speed, but more importantly for FE . If I feel I could use Charge more than Speed, I’ll allow the maximum amount of “Regen”. However, I might want to maintain speed on a downhill because I see another uphill coming so then I’ll cancel “Regen”. I will discuss more “Regen” effects on FE and my slowing/braking process later in the article.
Glide: The majority of time on the freeways I find myself in a low load ICE-On condition without the iFCD necessarily at 100 MPG but as high as I can make it with no visible Assist or Charge bars. Since I don’t find “EV-Assist” sustainable for long periods at high speeds, I am quite happy in either “Glide” or the ICE-On at a very low load with 75 or higher MPG on the iFCD, otherwise known as DWL . Technically DWL means holding the iFCD constant while allowing your speed to vary as necessary, which is especially useful on smaller hills and overpasses. On level roads I simply try to max the iFCD to whatever possible. If that is 75 - 95 MPG , I am quite content and leave EV mode alone
EV-Assist: In city driving, with few traffic lights, I find it easy to hold the iFCD at > 90 MPG and often cross between low load ICE-On, “Glide”, and “EV-Assist” modes easily. “EV-Assist” is fun and seems to be what most HCH-II drivers want to practice but it is costly to my SoC if I abuse it. I try to use EV mode sparingly, but again it’s a tradeoff in different circumstances. If my battery’s full and I see a great segment in the making, I’ll use it. If I’m heading downhill, often I will find myself drifting into and out of “EV-Assist” and I’ll maintain this but will not force it. It is great fun for example, getting up a good head of steam then easing into “EV-Assist” with up to 3 bars of Assist, and being able to climb up and over a short hill using that Assist. (I must go for cheap thrills ) In city driving, I will use “EV-Assist” more, especially at low speeds. Which brings me to describe an interesting variant of this mode.
DWL
DWL - Maintaining 85 MPG on the iFCD at 52 mph
Variant of “EV-Assist” mode at 1000 RPM’s
Most HCH-II owners are familiar with engaging “EV-Assist” at high speeds in the sequence described above: First coasting with “Regen”, canceling “Regen” with accelerator pedal pressure to allow “Glide” and continuing with even more accelerator pedal pressure until “EV-Assist” appears with bars in the Assist display. However, the HCH-II also appears to be able to go directly into “EV-Assist” mode at low speeds (< 35 mph) and also appears to do this from a dead stop under certain conditions. I say “appears to” because all the reports I’ve read regarding “EV-Assist” for the HCH-II say it does not have this capability, which is one of the main differences from the Prius. I have experimented with this variant at least a couple dozen times now and can find no better explanation for what I am seeing? It only seems to work when my car is well warmed up, such as right after exiting off the freeway.
From a stop, it would look like the following: I accelerate very slowly using “feather light” acceleration, with tach at 1000 RPMs heading up to 12-15 mph. It is best done either in very heavy traffic or in light traffic with no cars behind you. I see one or two bars of assist at the same time as I (barely) press the accelerator pedal. At the same time as speed increases and assist appears, I observe the iFCD swing quickly and smoothly to the right. It will stay pinned at 100 MPG , while I level off speed, staying somewhere under 20 mph. The assist bars remain, typically varying from one to three. The car is very quiet and once at steady speed the gauges are indistinguishable from normal “EV-Assist” mode. I feel the tell-tale bump and see the iFCD drop as soon as I raise the tach above 1K RPM. However as soon as it drops ba
It's not that I would not like readers here to have this entire Article on getting the most FE out of your HCH II written by Tarabell. It is very-very-very long and just takes way to much time to try to Post it here on Edmunds. Maybe the Moderators here will have mercy on Me & You members here and allow this Link to the entire Article with the Pics. to describe what she is talking about. If I could simply Copy & Paste it here I would but that does not work. I'll provide the Link to the Article once again and perhaps the Mods. here will make an exception and let you HCH II owners have the opportunity to read the Complete Article. If not maybe they (Mods.) can figure away to Copy & Paste it here for all of you to read. It is by far the Most in depth Article I have seen on the HCH II for getting the Maximium Fuel Mileage out of the HCH II. Good Luck & maybe this Link will be Allowed.I stated the facts here so Mods. Please let your readers that own the HCH II have the opportunity to read and see this Article in it's Original Form. Thank-You, Terry Honaker (tigerhonaker) July 26, 2006 http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1306 I know it is very hard for Moderators on Forums to Trust readers on their Forums when they Link to another Forum, that they are not trying something. I will just tell you that this is not the case. I have read this Article in full and I own a HCH II myself so I know this Article is for real. I have spoken in person with the Lady that wrote this and I can tell you that it took her weeks to compile all the information. The original text was like as I remember like 18 pages long and then it was gone over many-many times and what you read here is the final document after all the Editing was done. I hope it is Help to all that read it and it is certainly worth your time to read it and then practice some or all of the many things that are covered in it.
Thanks to you and to the moderators for allowing us access to this useful information! I believe when policies are tempered by judgment, we all gain! And certainly the same can be said when we use the info to make the most of our precious resources. Thanks again!
Your most welcome and I also want to take this time to say {Thanks} to the Mods. on this Forum for allowing the readers here to see the Pics. as well as the Article in it's original form. I think even if I could have gotten the text to duplicate here, it would not have been as informative to readers without the Pics to go along with the text.
Thanks again Edmund's and I am sure your readers will remember you being gracious enough to not Delete the Link to the Article.
My own personal tank record is 983 miles, and calculated 73MPG. (That's a whole tank, not some 12 mile trip to the store) This summer I'm averaging around 67MPG. My car and me didn't get those numbers right away. It takes training through experience and applying what works. I came from worst left lane tailgating.....get out of my way attitude. I got 14-16MPG out of a '94 Dodge 4cyl.
When I bought my HCH in Jan '04 I was determined to learn efficiency. I started off in the upper 40's and by changing my terrible habits into good, basic fuel saving techniques went into the low 50's. A few months later was mid, then upper 50's.
Later I applied more advanced efficiency techniques like finding alternative routes which favor better MPG and brought me solidly into the 60's. I don't draft trucks. I burn the cheapest 87 octane fuel I can find.
My commute is 95% highway-freeway and seldom in gridlock traffic. I travel 50 miles from rural N.Ga into the city of Atlanta at ~6:00PM while most traffic is heading out. I travel 50 miles back home again on nearly abandoned roadways in the early morning hours.
A hybrid car can achieve MPG numbers which far exceed it's regular counterparts, but remember you don't need a hybrid car to save $$$...you can do this in your regular car too, what ever you drive.
For example we raised our Grand Caravan from 15-16MPG with my old wasteful driving up to mid 20's by applying common sense habits, but not hypermiling. I had a couple +30MPG tanks hypermiling our Grand Caravan. During Katrina I visited Edmunds Navigator board and encouraged them to try driving for efficiency. One person took my advice to the test and raised his Navigator from 18MPG up to 28! That person applied simple, common sense techniques but did not hypermile.
While everyone can save simply by changing driving habits, hypermiling isn't for everyone. Google hypermile for more info. -Steve
Steve, Nice Post and even nicer MPG on your HCH I. Your the man. Like you say the hypermiling technics are not for everyone. You have to be comfortable with using them. Looks like the two of us get around on these Forums.
Hi all, Our family took a trip last weekend to Savannah in my 2004 Civic Hybrid.
We left From Atlanta to Savannah at about 3:00PM Friday afternoon. It was SO hot that AC was set to full and recirculate, but manually cycled off for steeper hills or acceleration to reduce engine load. It was the five of us in the car with a trunk filled with weekend luggage.
After about 25 miles from home we entered gridlock Atlanta. (of course the radio mentioned nothing of this mess) The next 65 miles were the "move 50 to 1000 feet then stop for a couple minutes" type traffic and we lost more than an hour and a half.
300 Miles from home we finally reached Savannah and I had 54 point something MPG and more than 1/2 tank left. I felt good about that. I used only mild fuel saving techniques like driving with load.
We drove about 100 miles while in Savannah...to the beach, sight seeing Etc.
The road back to Atlanta from Savannah was clear, but the first 190 miles was straight into the steady Western blowing head wind. We set AC to high and I manually cycled it sometimes, but not as faithfully as before. Shortly after turning North the fuel icon came on and down to one bar, where I filled it up at 739 miles. I used cruise control almost exclusively from Savannah back to Atlanta.
The tank came out just over 55MPG and I'm pretty happy with that considering everything.
It sounds like you and your Family had a Great weekend. Nice-Very Nice FE (Fuel Economy) also. Especially with the A/C blowing Cold. These days my Auto Climate Control is staying on all the time. Set at 78 Degrees and all is well.
Being a recent proud owner of an HCH2 and having learned a lot from tigerhonaker's HCH2 hypermiling article, I found myself focusing all of my efforts on getting the best MPG. And its worked, I've gone from 40, to 44, to 48, and now 53MPG on each successive tank.
But here's the problem, I find myself taking longer routes where I know I can get much better MPG instead of direct routes to my destination. I've read a few posts that hint that others do the same. While hard to prove either way, it is very likely that we are *wasting* gas in the pursuit of high MPG. Maybe others will not admit to it since it seems silly.
Besides longer routes, I can see this leading to other wasteful exploits that will raise MPG averages - like completely unnecessary trips (that happen to result in high averages).
Does anyone else feel like sometimes the MPG trip gauge is making you do irrational things?
I have put about 1700 miles on my HCHII and love it. My first tank was 47mpg mainly hwy. Second tank was 48.9 mainly twn. Third tank was 51.2 mix of hwy and town. I am not a super aggressive driver. I always drive speed limit in town. 65 on the e-way (I stay in the right hand land and speed up to 70 if I have to pass someone). I have a 2004 Prius as well and I get comparable mileage in it. The Civic replaced my mini-van and I am very happy with the decision. (Hey, has anyone else noticed that in the last month the number of smaller cars on the road has increased significantly? We are finally moving in the right direction.)
Welcome to the Forum. Which do you like to drive, the Prius or HCH?
As far as an increase in small cars I don't see much change in So Cal. It is still a sea of huge PU trucks and SUVs. At least 3 new large SUVs (Denali & Escalade size) on my street in the last month. The prices are right for buying big SUVs. Small cars and hybrids are still way over priced to be practical.
It depends on what you are looking for in trying to pick one car over the other. I am 6' tall so the Prius is easier to get in and out of, although once inside they seem to be fairly comparable at least in the front. From a driving experience I prefer the Civic. I feel more like I am driving the car. Don't get me wrong the Prius is great, but the Civic feels more responsive. Gas mileage is a wash for me. I drove the Prius for two years and put 57,000 miles on it. Not one problem. I hope to get the same from my Civic. My wife now drives the Prius and is starting to challenge me to mileage competitions. So far I am winning, but she is learning. I love the CVT in both cars. It is so much more relaxing to drive a CVT vehicle and my wife doesn't get car sick as often. They each have there upsides and downsides. I really like both vehicles.
To answer your comment about if drivers take the longer routes to improve their FE? YES, some do. I did take the time to {Measure} the distance to work so I could hopefully not have to use the interstate. I found that I actually could {Save} in my situation a little, while affording me the opportunity to drive much slower. So in my case it really worked out.
However I feel sure that on some of the other Forums that I am on that members do take Longer-Routes just to get better FE. So in those cases I guess one could say they are using more fuel just to show increased FE on their Gauges. I guess it just comes down to whatever a person is comfortable with.
I just bought my Civic hybrid on the 19th and I experienced some early doubts about the gas milage but after 3 weeks and a trip to Palm Springs from LA I got 49.7 miles to the gallon. Keep driving and you'll figure out what are the best ways to get better miles. Around the city I don't get as good of milage, but once on the highway I'm very happy. I love this car.
I have driven LA to Vegas and LA to San Francisco using cruise control as much as possible and got only 37 mpg each time. I am cruising at 75 mph; is that the reason my mileage has been low or should I have my civic hybrid checked out for problems? My mileage has not been any better on the highway than in the city - between 36 and 42 - what's up with this? If you have any tips or wisdom please fill me in.
75mph on cruise will kill you everytime. I find that on cruise at 70 I can average about 48. Anything above 70 and my mileage drops like a rock. FYI, drive 65, I can get 52 consistently. (Right lane of course)
Much of it depends on driving habits. There is a difference in town and highway. I have a fairly good mixture and I average between 50 and 52mpg, but I have pretty ideal driving conditions. I have found that in the city I average around 48, but if I run my air conditioning the whole time I will average around 43-44. If I floor it everytime I accelerate I am going to get worse. I typically accelerate reasonably from a light, I try to keep my RPM range right at 2,000 and let the CVT handle the acceleration to speed from there. That works the best for me. Of course traffic will dictate whether or not you can employ this technique.
I sincerely hope the mods don't delete this thread for the link, as it can help multitudes of drivers- both hybrid and non-hybrid drivers alike to save real fuel $$. -Steve
Picked up a 2006 Alabaster Silver no-Navi model last Monday, 8/21. First tank of gas - 400.3 miles, mostly highway driving going 30 miles each way, between 45-60 MPH. Got MPG of 46.3 overall. I'm on the next tank now, have gone 210 miles so far, car says I'm getting 49.2 MPG thus far on this tank. Running climate control at 70 degrees, so not heavy use of AC (New Jersey weather conditions). Pretty good start, I'd have to say.
Finally made my summertime goal of exceeding 1,000 miles on a single tank:
Driver: Hot Georgia Miles: 1003.4 Gallons: 13.4 Model Year: 2004 Model: Civic Hybrid Tranny: CVT Fuel type: 87 Regular MPG: 74.9 Additives: none Speed: About 55 average Road: 95% highway Average trip: 47 miles Beginning ODO 74,823 Ending ODO 75,827 Terrain: Very hilly to/from Atlanta to/from rural N. GA PSI: 51PSI all the way around (Cold sidewall Max) Tire: Factory LRR Dunlops (About ready for new skins) Oil: 0-20w Honda dealer stuff A/C: None
About 140 miles was through the drenching rains from the tropical storm way off shore to the East and at that point really doubted I'd do it. I took it slower in the rain which made this possible. Whew! I'm ready for another one! -Steve
How'd ya squeeze 13.4 gallons into your tank? Is the 04 bigger than the 05? I can only get 11 gallons into mine. Do you fill it til you spill it? I must know. Also, running the climate control at 70 means using the "auto" function right? I'm surprised you'd do that considering the goal you had in mind. Living in LA, I doubt I could get away with that...too hot Anyway, let me know about the tank if you could.
Answer to your question on how you get more fuel in the tank than the Manual says the capacity is.
You fill the tank all the way to the {TOP} until it will not hold one more {DROP}. That is how it is done. I have the 2006 HCH II and if your willing to take the time you can get alot more fuel in the tank than the manual says it will hold. There are Very-Divided Opinions on doing this however. Like one train of thought is that the Emissions will be messed up because you are Over-Filling the tank. The other train of thought is that it makes No-Difference at all. So who really knows on this subject? It has been discussed many-many-many times and the ones discussing it seem to never give in to the others opinion or logic on the subject. So I guess it comes down to a personal choice on what you as the owner can live with.
Glad I was over here on Edmunds to catch this Notice/Post.
Congrats to You, Big-Dog !!!!
Way to go and man what a Tank & MPG you just pulled off. I am going to take the time to Copy/Paste this on a PM to my Buddy, Wayne Gerdes I think he will get a kick out of this. Infact I think I will take the time to do a Post for you over at www.cleanMpg.com to let them read of (Your) latest Endeavor. They will Love it. Terry (tiger)
BTW, Nice to read about my neighbor from "Atlanta".
That is an accomplishment for sure. Keep us posted on your records. Do you drive around in day time Atlanta without the AC? You are tougher than I am if you do.
Rendon: Terry is right. Although I've never ran out have pumped in as much as 14.8 gallons before. On that last tank the last "bar" of fuel (1/20th tank) went out at 992 miles and have driven over 20 miles before with no fuel showing. Did not use climate control...or AC hardly at all this whole summer. Windows down below 40MPH and windows only open about an inch above 40 otherwise only the fan set to about 1/2 speed. Yes it was really hot sometimes but I'm so busy thinking about my drive to even notice that much. Summer here in GA have generally been mid-upper 90's and 40-100% humidity.
I have purchased my 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid new and have owned it for about 8 months and have traveled about 11,983 miles. I was shocked to find that my mpg since I purchased it is 2.1 mpg. I have uploaded the photos of the miles and mpg display to my album for you all to see.
I am new to this board and still figuring out how to post pictures. If you cannot find the pictures, please reply to this post and I will be happy to figure out how to post them properly.
I am really upset with this lemon and want to know if others have had this experience. To make things worse my navigation system does not refresh itself in some cases and I can be driving for many miles and it is stuck on the old display.
I've had my Silver HCH for just 2 weeks now and have driven 1,100 miles (long daily commute). I have averaged just over 50mpg very consistently along the same route I always drive (half back roads, half highway). To be sure the onboard computer wasn't lying to me I also calculated mpg by refilling and doing the math. The onboard real-time gas measurement is pretty much spot on. I have to admit I've been conscious about trying to optimize my mpg. I can say for certain that if I push the pedal down to jack rabbit start, or try to squeeze the little engine for all that it's got - that the mpg will indeed drop down to 40. But who the hell wants to do that when all you need to do is change your driving habits a bit and get great mileage. Besides saving you at the pump I've found this car has made me a better more conscientious driver. This car is amazing. I traded in a brand new '05 Nissan Maxima SE with 265hp towards it - and don't regret it one bit.
Say not Bad at all in my opinion. I own a 06 HCH II myself and it sounds like to me you are doing just fine with the Fuel Economy thing. I love the car myself and I hope you are enjoying yours as well.
I am new to the board/hybrid community and have a few questions.
Following the tips I have been reading I have been able to get ~72mpg out of a brand new 06 HCH driving mixed highway/city in the Hampton Roads, VA area.
Do these numbers seem accurate?
What kind of gain should I expect by using mid-grade unleaded?
I have been running regular unleaded.
Also does anyone have any worthwhile input about fuel quality at the different national brands?
My last vehicle required premium and I had significant variations with the different brands.
In my conventional vehicle I used Lucas fuel treatment every other tank and got a few mpg's out of it.
Is there any known issue of using it in the HCH's?
I have a few ounces left and think it may be worth a shot.
Have you seen or read this article? http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1306 I suggest you take the time to review it just for your info. It sounds like to me if you are getting in the 70 MPG range you are doing just GREAT as far as FE goes. I use the Mid-Grade Gas. Shell Mid Grade 89-Octane and it works just fine. Results versus 87-Octane I really cannot Honestly tell you. I just do it and the cost is not enough to worry about with the mileage of the HCH II. Nice vehicle the HCH II. I really like mine a lot and would buy it again if I had it to do over. Mine is the Alabaster Silver Metallic with the Two-Tone Blue Interior. Plus every factory option available from Honda. Everything !!! Loaded-Up:
Congratulations on your new vehicle and on that amazing mileage. I'd guess that your everyday mileage will be significantly lower, unless you plan to drive only for hypermileage.
You shouldn't expect any gain in mileage using fuel of any octane rating other than that specified by Honda, the engine manufacturer, in your owner's manual. Don't waste your money on higher octane fuel.
Regarding fuel "quality" of various brands... you'll no doubt find no differences. In fact the "no-name" brands in your area are probably receiving their deliveries from the same fuel depots while charging you significantly less. Except in low-fuel emergencies, I've avoided "brand-name" gas stations for the close to fifty years. I have NEVER noticed ANY difference in vehicle performance.
You will probably find that your Honda owner's manual specifies that you should never use either fuel additives or oil additives. Most are in the same category as snake oil according to most governmental and independent studies.
I did read that article, very useful IMHO. I have been adding 2/3 regular and 1/3 premium every time I fill up and calculate it as giving 90 octane for less per gallon than the 89 octane midgrade. Where I live regular is 87 +0.10 for 89 octane midgrade and +0.10 over the midgrade for 93 octane premium. Typically I am adding 4 gallons of regular and 2 gallons of premium. Since one of my strategies is to run on less than half a tank at all times I usually fill up when I am on my last block on the fuel gauge. I think this strategy actually is better than buying straight midgrade, The weight savings of not having a full tank, at ~6 lbs per gallon is ~36 lbs which is not insignificant.
Why waste your money on an octane level from which your vehicle doesn't benefit? Just ask the engineers at Honda.
If your engine were designed to operate at a higher compression ratio, and if the manufacturer specified its use, you would have to consider higher than regular octane fuel. If your engine were suffering from a preignition or "ping" condition, you might have to consider using higher octane fuel. Otherwise you are throwing your money down the sewer.
I have found that when I calculate my mileage based on miles driven and gallons added, my actual mileage tends to be 2-3mpg better than what the car's mpg calculator is telling me. By the way, after 7,000 miles I am averaging 44-45mpg.
I have a 05 HCH MT and I am averaging 38+ mpg in the city. I have to confess I tend to drive on the fast side not really worrying about the mpgs. My mom recently bought an 06 HCH CVT she has yet to get the mpgs above 33. she unlike me drives very carefully slow to accelerate, anticipating traffic etc. does anyone have any answer as to why ours are so different? does it need time to build up to a higher mpg? I didn't buy mine new so i don't know. Or is it because they are different transmissions?
Hello, I bought an 06 HCH CVT back in January, and have been consistently obtaining MPG in the mid to high 40's, mostly mixed driving. I'll get around 50 MPG if it is mostly highway miles. My most recent tank (I like to check to make sure the actual calculator in the car is accurate) was 46 MPG, whereas the new chip (installed as part of a ~ recall) stated 44.3 MPG, so it actually underestimated.
SO, if your mother is obtaining less than 40, I would a) check the tires b/c if they are at less than 32 PSI you will notice a drop [I assume most reports here are with 32 PSI in the tires], b) review driving habits, and c) allow it to break in a bit, although I got close to 50 MPG my 1st tank. Do you live in a mountainous area?
Regarding tire air pressure: the manufacturer's plate suggests 32 PSI, but the tires themselves say you can go all the way up to 44 PSI! I monkeyed with them once, inching them up to 38 PSI, and definiitely averaged about 53 MPG! The ride was a little rough, but it actually handled with a greater feel of agility.
I have now have had my HCH for 3 months. I live in an Urban area an only drive it to and from shoping or on long trips. On a 1600 mile round trip I only used 3 tanks of gas. My problem is that for my normal in town driving I am only averaging around 30 MPG. Is this normal?
I also wanted to know if anyone knew how many gallons of gas the tank holds and how many gallons are remaining when it's just at two bars?
My wife and I just picked up our 07 Civic Navi hybrid last week, and have driven it about 1000 miles so far. Our average mileage has been about 44 mpg.
One of the modifications that we have done is to replace the pie pan 15" wheels with 16" Civic wheels. They are about the same outside diameter, weight only 4 pounds more, and gas mileage has not been affected. Needless to say we are very pleased.
How many miles does it take to get the engine "broken-in" and for the gas mileage to improve?
Comments
Section II – EV/Glide Modes and Experiences
Regen/Glide/EV-Assist Modes
The different EV/Glide modes on the HCH-II are important tools in increasing FE . The easiest way to describe them is to go through a scenario I typically use that engages all three of them in sequence. I’m going to use the shorthand “Regen”, “Glide” and “EV/Assist” for the 3 modes and refer to them in this manner throughout the rest of the article. Assume I'm cruising at 55mph on level highway:
“Regen” - This is what I always considered “coasting”. While at speed I simply lighten or remove my right foot from the accelerator pedal. The Charge display shows green bars indicating energy is being recaptured and is being used to charge the battery. Less foot pressure, faster deceleration => more bars in the Charge display, more “Regen” charge to the pack. The iFCD will move to the right and peg at 100 MPG . However, “Regen” slows me down more than I normally would in a non-hybrid car with standard ICE-braking. Even if heading downhill, I can feel the slowing effect of “Regen” on the car. In this mode as well as the next two, the ICE is still turning over with the transmission engaged, but the valves and injectors are closed and no fuel is being consumed. I also find the engine very quiet in all three modes.
Regen
Losing speed quickly with full “Regen”.
“Glide” - While watching the Charge display, I gently reapply pressure to the accelerator pedal and the regen bars start to disappear. When completely gone I am still “coasting” except now I’ve eliminated the drag caused by “Regen” and can coast much further without slowing as fast while the iFCD will continue to be pegged at 100 MPG . This is known as “Glide”. I can hold the “Glide” mode for a good distance, often several miles depending on terrain.
Glide
Still losing speed but at a much slower rate in “Glide”.
“EV-Assist” - While the iFCD is still pegged at 100 MPG and all “Regen” is cancelled, I continue gently applying pressure to the accelerator pedal until I see one or more gray bars appear in the Assist display. This indicates the electric motor is now assisting propulsion even though the ICE is not consuming fuel with its valves and injectors closed. I can hold this for at most, half a minute at a time at high speeds and the car will start to slow down even with foot pressure steady as a rock. This requires a fine foot-balancing act because given too much pressure the assist bars disappear, the iFCD drops, and a distinctive lurch happens as the ICE comes back online to help re-accelerate or maintain speed as well as consuming fuel once again. If I want to re-engage “EV-Assist” at these higher speeds, I have to start the process all over again with “Regen” to “Glide” to “EV-Assist”.
EV-Assist
Attempting to maintain a higher speed with “EV-Assist”.
Using the Three Modes
Regen: I see “Regen” nearly every time I let up on the gas to slow down for a signal or stop sign, exit off the freeway, or go downhill. I can control the amount of “Regen” I want, basically trading off Charging the battery for speed, but more importantly for FE . If I feel I could use Charge more than Speed, I’ll allow the maximum amount of “Regen”. However, I might want to maintain speed on a downhill because I see another uphill coming so then I’ll cancel “Regen”. I will discuss more “Regen” effects on FE and my slowing/braking process later in the article.
Glide: The majority of time on the freeways I find myself in a low load ICE-On condition without the iFCD necessarily at 100 MPG but as high as I can make it with no visible Assist or Charge bars. Since I don’t find “EV-Assist” sustainable for long periods at high speeds, I am quite happy in either “Glide” or the ICE-On at a very low load with 75 or higher MPG on the iFCD, otherwise known as DWL . Technically DWL means holding the iFCD constant while allowing your speed to vary as necessary, which is especially useful on smaller hills and overpasses. On level roads I simply try to max the iFCD to whatever possible. If that is 75 - 95 MPG , I am quite content and leave EV mode alone
EV-Assist: In city driving, with few traffic lights, I find it easy to hold the iFCD at > 90 MPG and often cross between low load ICE-On, “Glide”, and “EV-Assist” modes easily. “EV-Assist” is fun and seems to be what most HCH-II drivers want to practice but it is costly to my SoC if I abuse it. I try to use EV mode sparingly, but again it’s a tradeoff in different circumstances. If my battery’s full and I see a great segment in the making, I’ll use it. If I’m heading downhill, often I will find myself drifting into and out of “EV-Assist” and I’ll maintain this but will not force it. It is great fun for example, getting up a good head of steam then easing into “EV-Assist” with up to 3 bars of Assist, and being able to climb up and over a short hill using that Assist. (I must go for cheap thrills ) In city driving, I will use “EV-Assist” more, especially at low speeds. Which brings me to describe an interesting variant of this mode.
DWL
DWL - Maintaining 85 MPG on the iFCD at 52 mph
Variant of “EV-Assist” mode at 1000 RPM’s
Most HCH-II owners are familiar with engaging “EV-Assist” at high speeds in the sequence described above: First coasting with “Regen”, canceling “Regen” with accelerator pedal pressure to allow “Glide” and continuing with even more accelerator pedal pressure until “EV-Assist” appears with bars in the Assist display. However, the HCH-II also appears to be able to go directly into “EV-Assist” mode at low speeds (< 35 mph) and also appears to do this from a dead stop under certain conditions. I say “appears to” because all the reports I’ve read regarding “EV-Assist” for the HCH-II say it does not have this capability, which is one of the main differences from the Prius. I have experimented with this variant at least a couple dozen times now and can find no better explanation for what I am seeing? It only seems to work when my car is well warmed up, such as right after exiting off the freeway.
From a stop, it would look like the following: I accelerate very slowly using “feather light” acceleration, with tach at 1000 RPMs heading up to 12-15 mph. It is best done either in very heavy traffic or in light traffic with no cars behind you. I see one or two bars of assist at the same time as I (barely) press the accelerator pedal. At the same time as speed increases and assist appears, I observe the iFCD swing quickly and smoothly to the right. It will stay pinned at 100 MPG , while I level off speed, staying somewhere under 20 mph. The assist bars remain, typically varying from one to three. The car is very quiet and once at steady speed the gauges are indistinguishable from normal “EV-Assist” mode. I feel the tell-tale bump and see the iFCD drop as soon as I raise the tach above 1K RPM. However as soon as it drops ba
Sorry, It is just to long and very very difficult to Post here.
Links are forbidden to other Forums as Advertising so I see No way to Post this Very Lengthy but Informative Article here:
I tried, it is just not going to work:
Terry (tigerhonaker)
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1306
I know it is very hard for Moderators on Forums to Trust readers on their Forums when they Link to another Forum, that they are not trying something. I will just tell you that this is not the case. I have read this Article in full and I own a HCH II myself so I know this Article is for real. I have spoken in person with the Lady that wrote this and I can tell you that it took her weeks to compile all the information. The original text was like as I remember like 18 pages long and then it was gone over many-many times and what you read here is the final document after all the Editing was done. I hope it is Help to all that read it and it is certainly worth your time to read it and then practice some or all of the many things that are covered in it.
Thanks again Edmund's and I am sure your readers will remember you being gracious enough to not Delete the Link to the Article.
Terry
(That's a whole tank, not some 12 mile trip to the store)
This summer I'm averaging around 67MPG.
My car and me didn't get those numbers right away.
It takes training through experience and applying what works.
I came from worst left lane tailgating.....get out of my way attitude. I got 14-16MPG out of a '94 Dodge 4cyl.
When I bought my HCH in Jan '04 I was determined to learn efficiency.
I started off in the upper 40's and by changing my terrible habits into good, basic fuel saving techniques went into the low 50's. A few months later was mid, then upper 50's.
Later I applied more advanced efficiency techniques like finding alternative routes which favor better MPG and brought me solidly into the 60's. I don't draft trucks.
I burn the cheapest 87 octane fuel I can find.
My commute is 95% highway-freeway and seldom in gridlock traffic. I travel 50 miles from rural N.Ga into the city of Atlanta at ~6:00PM while most traffic is heading out. I travel 50 miles back home again on nearly abandoned roadways in the early morning hours.
A hybrid car can achieve MPG numbers which far exceed it's regular counterparts, but remember you don't need a hybrid car to save $$$...you can do this in your regular car too, what ever you drive.
For example we raised our Grand Caravan from 15-16MPG with my old wasteful driving up to mid 20's by applying common sense habits, but not hypermiling. I had a couple +30MPG tanks hypermiling our Grand Caravan.
During Katrina I visited Edmunds Navigator board and encouraged them to try driving for efficiency.
One person took my advice to the test and raised his Navigator from 18MPG up to 28! That person applied simple, common sense techniques but did not hypermile.
While everyone can save simply by changing driving habits, hypermiling isn't for everyone. Google hypermile for more info.
-Steve
Nice Post and even nicer MPG on your HCH I. Your the man. Like you say the hypermiling technics are not for everyone. You have to be comfortable with using them. Looks like the two of us get around on these Forums.
tiger (Terry)
We left From Atlanta to Savannah at about 3:00PM Friday afternoon.
It was SO hot that AC was set to full and recirculate, but manually cycled off for steeper hills or acceleration to reduce engine load.
It was the five of us in the car with a trunk filled with weekend luggage.
After about 25 miles from home we entered gridlock Atlanta. (of course the radio mentioned nothing of this mess)
The next 65 miles were the "move 50 to 1000 feet then stop for a couple minutes" type traffic and we lost more than an hour and a half.
300 Miles from home we finally reached Savannah and I had 54 point something MPG and more than 1/2 tank left. I felt good about that. I used only mild fuel saving techniques like driving with load.
We drove about 100 miles while in Savannah...to the beach, sight seeing Etc.
The road back to Atlanta from Savannah was clear, but the first 190 miles was straight into the steady Western blowing head wind. We set AC to high and I manually cycled it sometimes, but not as faithfully as before. Shortly after turning North the fuel icon came on and down to one bar, where I filled it up at 739 miles. I used cruise control almost exclusively from Savannah back to Atlanta.
The tank came out just over 55MPG and I'm pretty happy with that considering everything.
-Steve
It sounds like you and your Family had a Great weekend. Nice-Very Nice FE (Fuel Economy) also. Especially with the A/C blowing Cold.
Terry (tigerhonaker)
(And yes we sure do get around on these boards!)
It was a fun trip. More to do in Savannah than I thought.
-Steve
But here's the problem, I find myself taking longer routes where I know I can get much better MPG instead of direct routes to my destination. I've read a few posts that hint that others do the same. While hard to prove either way, it is very likely that we are *wasting* gas in the pursuit of high MPG. Maybe others will not admit to it since it seems silly.
Besides longer routes, I can see this leading to other wasteful exploits that will raise MPG averages - like completely unnecessary trips (that happen to result in high averages).
Does anyone else feel like sometimes the MPG trip gauge is making you do irrational things?
Welcome to the Forum. Which do you like to drive, the Prius or HCH?
As far as an increase in small cars I don't see much change in So Cal. It is still a sea of huge PU trucks and SUVs. At least 3 new large SUVs (Denali & Escalade size) on my street in the last month. The prices are right for buying big SUVs. Small cars and hybrids are still way over priced to be practical.
However I feel sure that on some of the other Forums that I am on that members do take Longer-Routes just to get better FE. So in those cases I guess one could say they are using more fuel just to show increased FE on their Gauges. I guess it just comes down to whatever a person is comfortable with.
tiger
tiger
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1306
I sincerely hope the mods don't delete this thread for the link, as it can help multitudes of drivers- both hybrid and non-hybrid drivers alike to save real fuel $$.
-Steve
Driver: Hot Georgia
Miles: 1003.4
Gallons: 13.4
Model Year: 2004
Model: Civic Hybrid
Tranny: CVT
Fuel type: 87 Regular
MPG: 74.9
Additives: none
Speed: About 55 average
Road: 95% highway
Average trip: 47 miles
Beginning ODO 74,823
Ending ODO 75,827
Terrain: Very hilly to/from Atlanta to/from rural N. GA
PSI: 51PSI all the way around (Cold sidewall Max)
Tire: Factory LRR Dunlops (About ready for new skins)
Oil: 0-20w Honda dealer stuff
A/C: None
About 140 miles was through the drenching rains from the tropical storm way off shore to the East and at that point really doubted I'd do it. I took it slower in the rain which made this possible.
Whew! I'm ready for another one!
-Steve
How'd ya squeeze 13.4 gallons into your tank? Is the 04 bigger than the 05? I can only get 11 gallons into mine. Do you fill it til you spill it? I must know.
Also, running the climate control at 70 means using the "auto" function right? I'm surprised you'd do that considering the goal you had in mind. Living in LA, I doubt I could get away with that...too hot
Anyway, let me know about the tank if you could.
thanks
You fill the tank all the way to the {TOP} until it will not hold one more {DROP}. That is how it is done. I have the 2006 HCH II and if your willing to take the time you can get alot more fuel in the tank than the manual says it will hold. There are Very-Divided Opinions on doing this however. Like one train of thought is that the Emissions will be messed up because you are Over-Filling the tank. The other train of thought is that it makes No-Difference at all. So who really knows on this subject? It has been discussed many-many-many times and the ones discussing it seem to never give in to the others opinion or logic on the subject. So I guess it comes down to a personal choice on what you as the owner can live with.
Terry (tiger)
Glad I was over here on Edmunds to catch this Notice/Post.
Congrats to You, Big-Dog !!!!
Way to go and man what a Tank & MPG you just pulled off. I am going to take the time to Copy/Paste this on a PM to my Buddy, Wayne Gerdes I think he will get a kick out of this. Infact I think I will take the time to do a Post for you over at www.cleanMpg.com to let them read of (Your) latest Endeavor. They will Love it.
Terry (tiger)
BTW, Nice to read about my neighbor from "Atlanta".
Terry is right. Although I've never ran out have pumped in as much as 14.8 gallons before. On that last tank the last "bar" of fuel (1/20th tank) went out at 992 miles and have driven over 20 miles before with no fuel showing.
Did not use climate control...or AC hardly at all this whole summer. Windows down below 40MPH and windows only open about an inch above 40 otherwise only the fan set to about 1/2 speed.
Yes it was really hot sometimes but I'm so busy thinking about my drive to even notice that much. Summer here in GA have generally been mid-upper 90's and 40-100% humidity.
Thanks all for the compliments.
-Steve
I have purchased my 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid new and have owned it for about 8 months and have traveled about 11,983 miles. I was shocked to find that my mpg since I purchased it is 2.1 mpg. I have uploaded the photos of the miles and mpg display to my album for you all to see.
I am new to this board and still figuring out how to post pictures. If you cannot find the pictures, please reply to this post and I will be happy to figure out how to post them properly.
I am really upset with this lemon and want to know if others have had this experience. To make things worse my navigation system does not refresh itself in some cases and I can be driving for many miles and it is stuck on the old display.
did you say two point one miles per gallon? :confuse: :confuse: :shades:
You just have a problem with the NAV system. Take it to a dealer and they will repair/replace it under warranty.
Sorry to hear about your poor mileage. I get more than 10 times that with a 6-speed V6 Accord.
Good Luck, I would take to the dealer while it is still under warranty. Something is definitely wrong.
YMMV,
MidCow
Great, now my wife wants one.
Winstonrego is pulling your chain. Think about it.
Terry (tiger)
I am new to the board/hybrid community and have a few questions.
Following the tips I have been reading I have been able to get ~72mpg out of a brand new 06 HCH driving mixed highway/city in the Hampton Roads, VA area.
Do these numbers seem accurate?
What kind of gain should I expect by using mid-grade unleaded?
I have been running regular unleaded.
Also does anyone have any worthwhile input about fuel quality at the different national brands?
My last vehicle required premium and I had significant variations with the different brands.
In my conventional vehicle I used Lucas fuel treatment every other tank and got a few mpg's out of it.
Is there any known issue of using it in the HCH's?
I have a few ounces left and think it may be worth a shot.
Thank you.
R.M.
Have you seen or read this article? http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1306
I suggest you take the time to review it just for your info. It sounds like to me if you are getting in the 70 MPG range you are doing just GREAT as far as FE goes. I use the Mid-Grade Gas. Shell Mid Grade 89-Octane and it works just fine. Results versus 87-Octane I really cannot Honestly tell you. I just do it and the cost is not enough to worry about with the mileage of the HCH II. Nice vehicle the HCH II. I really like mine a lot and would buy it again if I had it to do over. Mine is the Alabaster Silver Metallic with the Two-Tone Blue Interior. Plus every factory option available from Honda. Everything !!! Loaded-Up:
Take Care,
Terry (tiger)
You shouldn't expect any gain in mileage using fuel of any octane rating other than that specified by Honda, the engine manufacturer, in your owner's manual. Don't waste your money on higher octane fuel.
Regarding fuel "quality" of various brands... you'll no doubt find no differences. In fact the "no-name" brands in your area are probably receiving their deliveries from the same fuel depots while charging you significantly less. Except in low-fuel emergencies, I've avoided "brand-name" gas stations for the close to fifty years. I have NEVER noticed ANY difference in vehicle performance.
You will probably find that your Honda owner's manual specifies that you should never use either fuel additives or oil additives. Most are in the same category as snake oil according to most governmental and independent studies.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&defl=en&q=define:Snake+oil&sa=X&oi=glossa- - ry_definition&ct=title
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm
I did read that article, very useful IMHO. I have been adding 2/3 regular and 1/3 premium every time I fill up and calculate it as giving 90 octane for less per gallon than the 89 octane midgrade. Where I live regular is 87 +0.10 for 89 octane midgrade and +0.10 over the midgrade for 93 octane premium. Typically I am adding 4 gallons of regular and 2 gallons of premium. Since one of my strategies is to run on less than half a tank at all times I usually fill up when I am on my last block on the fuel gauge. I think this strategy actually is better than buying straight midgrade, The weight savings of not having a full tank, at ~6 lbs per gallon is ~36 lbs which is not insignificant.
--Robmooney
If your engine were designed to operate at a higher compression ratio, and if the manufacturer specified its use, you would have to consider higher than regular octane fuel. If your engine were suffering from a preignition or "ping" condition, you might have to consider using higher octane fuel. Otherwise you are throwing your money down the sewer.
Here's an interesting discussion:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0d7acb/0!make=Honda&model=Accord&ed_make- - index=.f0d7acb
Your car was engineered to run on regular. Premium produces no "extra" performance, and will reduce your mileage slightly.
By the way, after 7,000 miles I am averaging 44-45mpg.
I bought an 06 HCH CVT back in January, and have been consistently obtaining MPG in the mid to high 40's, mostly mixed driving. I'll get around 50 MPG if it is mostly highway miles. My most recent tank (I like to check to make sure the actual calculator in the car is accurate) was 46 MPG, whereas the new chip (installed as part of a ~ recall) stated 44.3 MPG, so it actually underestimated.
SO, if your mother is obtaining less than 40, I would a) check the tires b/c if they are at less than 32 PSI you will notice a drop [I assume most reports here are with 32 PSI in the tires], b) review driving habits, and c) allow it to break in a bit, although I got close to 50 MPG my 1st tank. Do you live in a mountainous area?
Regarding tire air pressure: the manufacturer's plate suggests 32 PSI, but the tires themselves say you can go all the way up to 44 PSI! I monkeyed with them once, inching them up to 38 PSI, and definiitely averaged about 53 MPG! The ride was a little rough, but it actually handled with a greater feel of agility.
I also wanted to know if anyone knew how many gallons of gas the tank holds and how many gallons are remaining when it's just at two bars?
One of the modifications that we have done is to replace the pie pan 15" wheels with 16" Civic wheels. They are about the same outside diameter, weight only 4 pounds more, and gas mileage has not been affected. Needless to say we are very pleased.
How many miles does it take to get the engine "broken-in" and for the gas mileage to improve?