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High Mileage & Extended Performance motor oils

recalcitrantrecalcitrant Member Posts: 13
edited January 2017 in General
My 2011 Toyota Camry LE takes 0W-20 SAE synthetic motor oil. The mileage on it is starting to get up there now.

At least two brands (Mobil 1 & Valvoline) offer this type of oil in a High Mileage variety.

Is this motor oil really superior to "regular" 0W-20 SAE synthetic motor oil for high mileage vehicles?

And what about "Extended Performance" motor oils that are supposed to be good for 15,000 miles between oil changes? Are they really superior to regular motor oil?
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I would recommend doing just what you are doing now. The most important aspect of motor oil is using the right specification for your car AND, for an older car, not extending the oil changes out too far. I think 15K miles between changes is okay if you are doing an oil analysis, but if you aren't, then I would recommend 5,000 to 7500 with the synthetic oil you are using now.

    High mileage oil isn't any "better". Some of them have seal conditioners in them, but with regular oil changes I don't much see the need for them.

  • rickmnrickmn Member Posts: 19
    I'm familiar with the Valvoline HM oil. It has seal conditioners, more detergent, additional viscosity improvers and extra anti-wear additives. Not sure if all of that is in the Mobil 1 version. The key to long life is not going too far on oil changes. Most drivers do NOT meet the requirements for 10M mile oil changes. If you read your Toyota manual, you'll see that stop and go city driving and short trips are considered SEVERE service and that drops oil change intervals down to 5M. Here's a pretty good article on the factors to consider for oil change intervals.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,840
    recalcitrant said:

    My 2011 Toyota Camry LE takes 0W-20 SAE synthetic motor oil. The mileage on it is starting to get up there now.
    At least two brands (Mobil 1 & Valvoline) offer this type of oil in a High Mileage variety.

    I've put up a lot of information about this here over the last few years. There is a lot of marketing noise out there that often drowns out what consumers really need to know.
    recalcitrant said:


    Is this motor oil really superior to "regular" 0W-20 SAE synthetic motor oil for high mileage vehicles?

    That would be highly dependent on just what someone means by superior. The high mileage oil's typically add higher levels of some of the additives, specifically ZDP and ZDDP. These zinc - phosphate compounds increase an oil's ability to provide boundary layer protection up to a point. Anything beyond that point simply flashes off out of the oil and get's picked up by the PCV system and ends up going out the exhaust where the phosphorus poisons the catalyst and O2 sensors. Take a look at the regular Mobil 1 bottle and you will see the green dexos license on the front of the bottle, and then look at the high mileage product and notice that label is missing. That's not an accident, the high mileage oil might protect the engine a little better but it is bad for the emissions system. Today's oils have to protect both.
    recalcitrant said:


    And what about "Extended Performance" motor oils that are supposed to be good for 15,000 miles between oil changes? Are they really superior to regular motor oil?

    If the oil is approved for the dexos spec, (which guarantees that it is the right product for your Toyota) and it is listed as Extended Performance then it is an outstanding product. However you should still follow the maintenance reminder system in your car. Just because the oil "could" go further that does not mean that the filter can or that there hasn't been some type of dilution from unburned fuel or even a small coolant leak. There has been a lot said about oil analysis. You can spend an extra $20-25 on that once in a while if you desire just to see exactly what it shows you but for most people it ends up being a pricey piece of paper if they would just service the car correctly.

  • recalcitrantrecalcitrant Member Posts: 13
    Wow! I never expected that kind of expertise! You guys must be motorheads.

    I bought the car with 58,000 miles on it. It now has 110,000 miles, and it still runs like new.

    To my surprise, the owner's manual recommends changing the oil only every 10,000 miles. Nonetheless, I've been changing it every 5,000 to 5,500 miles. I have NEVER deviated from that.

    I understand that the most important thing is changing the oil often enough – as you can tell by my oil changes – but from what you guys are saying, it sounds to me like:

    the High Mileage oil:
    • might extend the life of my seals,
    • might extend the life of my engine, and
    • definitely will reduce the life of my catalytic converter and O2 sensors, and

    the Extended Performance oil might extend the life of my engine, if I use it but still change the oil every 5,000 miles (which is exactly what I thought I’d do).

    I don’t suppose there is a motor oil that is “the best of all worlds,” even if it was substantially more expensive, right? Because if there was, it would be worth it. I mean, to spend an extra $100 a year to substantially extend the life of your engine would be a no-brainer, you know?

    Anyway, I’ve found that Walmart has great deals on 5-quart containers of the SAE 0W-20 full synthetic motor oil my car uses. I had gotten the “regular” Valvoline for $22 a few times, but last time I got the Mobil 1 Extended Performance for $28. For an extra $6, how could you go wrong, if it really is better?

    So do I understand this all correctly? And should I get the Extended Performance, rather than the High Mileage? Or neither?
  • recalcitrantrecalcitrant Member Posts: 13
    thecardoc3 said:

    The Mobil 1 Extended performance 0W20 is an excellent choice and the easy way to tell is it is dexos approved. (the little green label on the front of the bottle) That means it will not only protect the engine correctly it will do so without damaging the catalyst and O2 sensors.

    Thanks for the recommendation, I just picked up a couple 5-quart containers.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,840
    You're welcome. Funny, six years ago GM was taking all kinds of abuse for the licensing program because there weren't enough people making an effort to find out what it was really all about. They made it easier for a lot of vehicle owners (North American and Asian manufacturers) to really choose the right products for their cars with that license.
  • recalcitrantrecalcitrant Member Posts: 13
    Well, now they’ve come out with Mobil-1 Annual Protection motor oil, and it’s fully synthetic, and it’s available in the 0W-20 weight I need.

    It’s good for 20,000 miles (as opposed to the 15,000 miles for Mobil-1 Extended Performance).

    But I understand it’s $49 for a 5 quart jug (as opposed to the $28 I’m currently paying for the Extended Performance).

    That’s fine with me, I’m happy to pay it for the very best there is, if indeed it IS the very best.

    But in looking at the container, I don’t see the little green “dexos approved” label on it, but maybe that’s just because this product is so new.

    So is there any word yet on whether or not this oil is guaranteed to not damage the car’s catalyst and O2 sensors?

    Also, I’m using the K&N oil filter, because I was given to understand that it’s equivalent to the Mobil-1 filter, except that it’s easier to install.

    But the blurb for the new Mobil-1 Annual Protection oil says that their new Mobil-1 Extended Performance Oil Filter is recommended for best results with the new Annual Protection oil, although not actually required.

    I figure this is just an attempt to sell their filters, but it doesn’t hurt to check.

    So what do you think, is the K&N just as good as the Mobil-1 Extended Performance Oil Filter?

    Thanks for any help.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,840
    edited March 2017
    recalcitrant said:

    Well, now they’ve come out with Mobil-1 Annual Protection motor oil, and it’s fully synthetic, and it’s available in the 0W-20 weight I need.

    It’s good for 20,000 miles (as opposed to the 15,000 miles for Mobil-1 Extended Performance).

    I have a problem with marketing that can potentially mislead consumers. GM did too and that's why they have the dexos licensing requirement, which BTW from Mobile 1's Annual FAQ's

    All viscosities of Mobil 1 Annual Protection motor oil meet or exceed the requirements of the latest industry specification (ILSAC GF-5, API SN). Additionally, Mobil 1 Annual Protection motor oil is approved by General Motors dexos1™. For a full list of industry specifications and car builder approvals, see the Mobil 1 Annual Protection product data sheet.

    https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-mobil-advantage/mobil-1-performance/mobil-1-annual-protection-long-lasting-oil?WT.mc_id=cpc_Google_Mobil-1-AP-Brand_Exact&WT.z_adgroup=General&WT.z_keyword=mobil-1-annual-protection&WT.tsrc=Paid-Search&WT.srch=1

    https://www.mobil.com/English-US/Passenger-Vehicle-Lube/pds/GLXXMobil-1-Annual-Protection
    recalcitrant said:


    But in looking at the container, I don’t see the little green “dexos approved” label on it, but maybe that’s just because this product is so new.

    So is there any word yet on whether or not this oil is guaranteed to not damage the car’s catalyst and O2 sensors?

    It's very likely the first series to come out had not completed testing and licensing but as you see by the links it has now done that. With the dexos approval the product has to be good at also protecting the catalyst and O2 sensors.
    recalcitrant said:


    Also, I’m using the K&N oil filter, because I was given to understand that it’s equivalent to the Mobil-1 filter, except that it’s easier to install.

    But the blurb for the new Mobil-1 Annual Protection oil says that their new Mobil-1 Extended Performance Oil Filter is recommended for best results with the new Annual Protection oil, although not actually required.

    If you thought oil has become complicated you don't even want to investigate filters.
    The smaller the particles that a filter can trap the shorter its serviceable lifespan will be, aka 10 micron. Meanwhile if a filter is allowed to pass up to a 20 micron particle it would last longer but of course not clean the oil as completely as the 10 micron version. There is also a standard for how much material a filter can trap before it clogs and has to be bypassed. (dirty oil is better than no oil)

    If you want to study filters, you can start here if you want to. http://standards.sae.org/j1985_201310/
    recalcitrant said:



    I figure this is just an attempt to sell their filters, but it doesn’t hurt to check.
    So what do you think, is the K&N just as good as the Mobil-1 Extended Performance Oil Filter?

    Thanks for any help.

    There is always going to be a filter that is going better in some applications than it is in others. Any filter approved under the SAE J905 guidelines should be sufficient for a manufacturers regular service interval under normal engine conditions. When someone attempts to stray from the manufactures service schedule its anyone's guess what the results will be.

    BTW, Mobile 1 annual is not approved for ACEA A5/B5 which would designate it as a long life product.
  • recalcitrantrecalcitrant Member Posts: 13
    Does Mobil-1 Annual Protection motor oil give superior and/or longer protection than Mobil-1 Extended Performance motor oil?

    Is Mobil-1 Annual Protection motor oil dexos licensed?

    If an oil filter traps 10 micron particles, then I am willing to change the filter more often than if it trapped only particles of 20 microns in size or larger. Do you know of any way that I can determine which oil filters that trap 10-micron particles will fit my 2011 Toyota Camry LE with 2.5 liter 4-cylinder engine? And how often should I change the filter? I change my oil every 5,000 miles, and I always change my oil filter at the same time. Should I change a 10-micron filter more often than that?
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,840
    First the oils. Everyone has to look thus stuff up all of the time because of how fast it keeps changing.
    For example. http://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand1/

    Notice they all expire in September. Which means you then (or should now) go to this page.

    Gen II dexos1.
    http://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand2015/

    Here are some history lessons on the subject.
    http://www.imakenews.com/lubritec/e_article002638642.cfm?x=b11,0,w

    http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/178

    http://www.amsoil.lube-direct.com/2011/04/dexos-1-amsoil-has-it/

    This is from Petroleum Quality Institute of America http://www.pqiamerica.com/
    There are two approved oils on either side and Amsoil's O.E. non approved product in the middle that they say meets the specs.



    About filters. You just have to search and you will find information that goes way beyond just marketing hype.
    http://www.fram.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwk-jGBRCbxoPLld_bp-IBEiQAgJaftZX-0lWp-8GBwAMhgV1-oPXigQ7eG0pYSD4tvxJLeuwaAtwi8P8HAQ

    Specifically, you have to download the PDF's for the critical specifications.

    http://www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram-extra-guard-oil-filter/ 95% efficiency, but what size particle???

    http://www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram-tough-guard-oil-filter/ 99% efficiency, but what size particle???

    Do the same for the rest, and then check out the specs for the filters you are interested in, "IF" you can find the specifications.

    http://www.knfilters.com/oilfilter.htm

    https://mobiloil.com/en/oil-filters/performance-oil-filters 99% efficiency at 30 microns


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