Tundra Brakes

arkie6

I have not been able to locate that 4 Wheeler article on the net about the Tundra / Tacoma parts. I have seen some early magazine articles on the Tundra (sorry, can't remember where) that contained erroneous information about the Tundra. Just because it's in some magazine does not make it fact. I'll keep looking for some hard facts.

pcheng

I'm pretty sure, that the transmission (on the V8) is not the same as the one on the Tacoma. The transfer case and the diffs are.

z71bill

You are right about the tranny on the Tundra - it is from the T-100. Does anyone think the T-100 is a full size truck?

Quadrunner - I would think the tranny was designed for the compact truck since that was all Toyota sold when the development took place. I do know from working with several engineering types that when a component gets designed it is "over engineered" If a truck has a gross weight of 5,000 pounds I am sure the component was designed for 10,000. I think they call this designed structural redundancy -- or some thing like this. It gives the part a margin of error to allow for some abuse and wear before it will fail. I honestly doubt the tranny (or the other compact parts) in the Tundra will be a problem. Toyota has just reduced the margin of error before failure and saved themselves major $$$ on development. Which is good for the consumer because it means a lower purchase price.

arkie6

I would think that the Tundra transmission would be similar to the one in the Landcruiser and Lexus LX470, which had the 4.7L V8 since 1998, not the T100 which was never equipped with a V8. Also note that the Landcruiser is much heavier than the Tundra (approx. 5100 # vs. 4400 #). And the 98-2000 Landcruiser has no recalls or TSBs of significance that I have been able to find.

Again, z71bill, where did you get your information on the Tundra transmission.

I have been intending on crawling under some Tacomas and Landcruisers to check this out, but I have been working from before daylight to after dark lately and just haven't gotten around to it.

pcheng

Actually, Z71Bill is correct. Transmissions are designed for a specific torque, power, weight and engine speed range. Internal gearing is selected based on drivetrain ratios, tire diameter, etc. But the primary design of a transmission is designed specifically for a specific torque, power, weight and engine speed range. It doesn't matter if the engine that it's bolted to is a 6 cyl or 8 (or even 4).

After this primary design, engineers may add other options and change the programing in software to change the shift characteristics (yes Virginia, even the transmission is controlled by a computer these days).

z71bill

First from 4 wheeler mag, then Rube brought it up. It has been confirmed by several Tundra owners. Maybe the Land Cruiser has the same tranny as the T-100. But I would doubt it.

This is just a guess on my part but seems logical. Maybe the reason Toyota did not put the locking rear differential on the Tundra is because the compact sized tranny and transfer case would not handle the HP & torque produced by the V8 engine. This could also be the reason they choose not to install the receiver hitch on the limited from the factory.

I would not worry about your tranny, transfer case or rear differential. Unless you really work the truck near or above its max load it will most likely never be a problem.

pcheng

I'm not going to get into somee odd spar with you, nor am I going to even attempt to change your opinion or thoughts on Toyota, Tundra's, Tacoma's, or Land Cruisers:

BUT, I'm not sure I see the logic. I'm not sure which trans it has. In either case, size of trans has nothing to do with what it's bolted to (did you see my last post?). It has to do with the power output, torque, weight, and engine speed range. Just because a transmission is designed to handle more power, torque, ect. doesn't mean it's going to be physically larger. Size doesn't matter (well, that's what I've been told - : hey I was going to take a cheap shot at you, but I turned it on myself). The size of the differential is the same thing. The biggest factor determining the size of the differential is the gear ratio.

And, you completely lost me on the hitch thing. I would have expected that from ol' Bobby Joe; you threw me for a loop. Are you serious about that comment? I for one don't know the issue. I've heard a different story from every person who claims to know what's going on. Personally I think it's all a bunch of bs, and don't know who to believe, other than I've got a hitch and I'm not worried about it.

It's rare any body works their truck near or above max loads. It's not working the truck near above max loads that breaks things, it whether it's abused, or worked improperly. I used to drive big trucks, and I can tell you that if you're smooth, even at above max capacity, your equipment will last (no matter what brand). I don't claim that Toyota is tougher than the rest, but I'm not saying that it's less tough either. If you respect your equipment and use it correctly, it will last (regardless of manufacturer).

arkie6

Being an Engineer, I'm not following your reasoning on the transmission and rear end design.

There's more to transmissions and rear ends than gear ratios.

The transmission and differentials must be designed to handle the torque of the engine and the maximum load that the vehicle is rated to carry/haul and do this without breaking or wearing out prematurely. Its a material and sizing issue to ensure that you have the strength to handle the load.

It may not matter to the transmission if the engine has 6 or 8 cylinders, but it does matter if the engine output is 215 ft-lb torque or 315 ft-lb torque. The Tacoma/T100 transmission may be designed with enough margin to handle the 315 ft-lb torque, I'm not sure. But I am sure that the Landcruiser transmission and rear are designed to handle it.

Regarding the Tundra rear differential; I remember reading in some of the Tundra posts way back that the reason the Tundra did not get the locking differential that is on the Tacoma was that the Tundra got the larger and stronger 8.875" ring gear (same size as in Landcruiser) to handle the additional torque of the 4.7L V8 (the Tacoma has an 8" ring gear), and that the locker had not been adapted to this differential yet. Another thing, the Tundra has a 3.91 ratio differential. Is that ratio even available on the Tacoma/T100. I thought they were only available with 4.10 (small tire package) or 4.30 (big tire package). Correct me on this ratio thing if I'm wrong.

quadrunner500

Whether it's designed around the Land Cruiser, or the Tacoma, a buddy of mine and his friends managed to overheat the automatic bad enough that white smoke poured from the slot between the cargo bed, and the rear window, after taking it up a rocky trail in 4-LO with 2 motor cycles, a riding buddy, a lady, a dog, and a keg of beer. They flattened the right front tire, and had to rock the truck from D to R to get it un-stuck. Afterward, they could not get the 4x4 system to disengage from 4-LO, and drove it back to camp this way. They tried letting it cool several times, and restarting the engine was difficult. Sounds like he got it very hot. Nevertheless, after sitting overnight, the 4x4 system did finally disengage, and he was able to drive it back to Denver without further mishap.

present4u

Quadrunner, Z71Bill, Rubluetoo, Bud_light_Dude...

... All irritable men with low self-esteem who are quite perturbed that they're not making any headway with convincing Tundra owners that they should be miserable with their choice.

Anyone who'd spend months and months trying the same tactic all the while expecting a different result is, by definition, insane.

I can see why die-hard GM and Ford lovers would rather habitate here in Tundraland than participate in their own nameplate's forums: There's nothing but bad news, sorrow, misery and lamentation in the forums they belong in.

Think about it -- what fun is it co-miserating in a GM or Ford forum with the dejected underclass when they could be sowing disruption in a happy group of confident, fun-loving Toyota owners?

There's a word for what they are: 'Sociopaths'.

Here's to hoping that they haven't yet and never will find a female of their species to breed with, because their troubles are genetic in nature -- except in the case of Rube, who's parents simply violated the legal and Biblical rule against 'knowing' one's own close relative.

They're not gone, but they are forgotten. Let us Tundra people find tranquility in that thought? They'll leave if we ignore them, as they are simply here for attention and nothing more.

z71bill

I may be critical of some of the Tundra's features, or lack of options, or small back seat, or using parts from the Tacoma. But I do not attack other people. If posting this crap makes you feel better then do it. It just makes you look stupid.

Be honest - did you know your FULL SIZE Tundra was made with compact parts before you paid $25-$30K for it or did you find this out after you bought it?

quadrunner500

...everything you've read since day one from us, geneticly troubled, sociopathic members of the underclass. Instead, seek nirvana with the privileged, homophobic, elitist, and bigoted!

Anyway, I guess it is unfair of me to think you can possibly accept critical commentary, when there you are, prostrating yourself before the emperor. But you should keep in mind, when people experience problems with Toyotas, Japanese businessmen are not committing suicide.

z71bill

The only thing they have to hang on to is the RELIABILITY MYTH - Most know they paid a premium to buy the Tundra (exceptions would be RSPETTY & ARKIE6 who still think they paid less- no hope for these two) when a fellow Tundra owner posts a mechanical problem, like doors that will not close, engine that freezes up at 9,000 miles, vibration problems, tranny that shifts ruff, low oil pressure, hard starting engine or steering wheel shake they suddenly realize that the Tundra is not perfect. They are "too small" to admit that maybe they made a mistake, and will try to attack anyone that has an opinion that is different from theirs. Now mix in the obvious problems the Tundra has - no usable (for people) back seat, same size as the T-100 body, lack of up scale options and components from the compact Toyotas and it is just too much for these guys to handle. I feel sorry for guys like present4u. Maybe we should give them a break and leave them alone for a while. In time they will come to terms with the fact that they have paid more and gotten less than us. No sense rubbing their noses in it.

pcheng

I was trying not to get too deep into this, but, what I meant was that, just because one set of gears was made to handle (let's say) 200 hp, a set of gears designed to handle 400 hp doesn't necessarily need to be 100% larger in size. Different material or design can be taken into account. Without knowing anything other than physical appearance, to just say that one gear is smaller that another, and therefore structurally less capable is wrong.

Following that line of reasoning, to say that just because the driveline and rearend gear housing was used in the Tacoma, and now in the Tundra, it is more likely to break if used to maximum capacity is wrong. I don't know the orginal specifications of the components.
It very well could have been originally designed for a 350lb torque, 450hp monster motor, or a 3 cyl Geo Metro.

My original intention was just that, for the most part, the physical size of the components do not have anything to do with it's capabilities.

I couldn't find any specific information, but I had heard that the trans was based on the Lexus LS400 trans (but I'm not positive).

pcheng

Oh yeah, I forgot, GM never share parts in their vehicles.

bud_light_dude

all the makes share parts.

bud_light_dude

The transmission in the Silverados is the same one used in the S10 truck and blazer. It is rated well above what the 1/2 ton Silverado can put out. All that shows is that GM puts overkill transmissions in the compact trucks and more than adequate in the full size trucks. All the same, GM does share parts.

bg4dg

Commendable that any of the TBA would admit it. The trans in a Tundra did come from the T100 with the exception of push button engagement instead of a lever. This is because the trans was designed to withstand 350 HP and up to 400 Ft lb. of torque. That is why my supercharged V6 T100 with 20 more hp than a Tundra was warranted just the same as a plain 3.4 V6. That is also why you find early straight axle Toys that came with 4 bangers now running small blocks with the stock drivtrain and surviving. The only mfg. that doesn't share parts between divisions and models is the one who's out of business.

pcheng

So I guess what we're saying here is that all manufacturers share parts. And that Siverado uses one of them puny S-10 trannys. Good luck with that one. (Hey, Bobby Joe started it...)

This is getting ridiculous; this is my last comment on this line of thought.

bud_light_dude

Hold up now. I sided with you on the fact that all manuf share parts, but you are talking out your [non-permissible content removed] if you think that the S10 tranny is puny. Just proves that GM uses overkill transmissions in their compact trucks. GM has always had a strong transmission. The Turbo 400 and 700 are two off the best transmissions as far as durability than about any made. The 4L60E is rated at 400 lbs torque, well above the max torque rating of the 1/2 ton engine.

Don't talk trash if you can't back it up.

sdjsdj

My 1/2 ton 95 Suburban with 43,000 easy miles stranded my wife with a "no drive in all ranges" failure.

- GM got $2000.00 from me to fix it.
- I've since found 5-6 people that have had similer early trans failures on the 1/2 tons.

GM could have done something, anything to soften the blow.

So I've got to get some "miles" out of that 2 grand: Those things SUCK!

rrichf

Oooooo Kaaaaaay,

So what is the deal with the Tundra brakes? Do they wear out too soon? Do they shimmey? Do they squeak or what?

Rich

bud_light_dude

Well guess what? Be lucky it wasn't an import. An import is just as likely to have a tranmission fail as any domestic, only instead of 2,000 to repair or replace, try about 5-6,000.

I tow 5k lbs. at least 500 miles a month during the summer. Have done this with 1/2 ton GM trucks, even with no tranny oil cooler. I have never had a tranny failure in 16 years of GM truck ownership. I have bought used and abused GM trucks and put them to the same tests as my new trucks....again, never had a GM tranny failure. My whole family as far back as my Great Grandfather who is now dead, has always driven GM trucks. Transmissions have never been a problem or a weak spot at all, even on the compact trucks.

I find all these GM transmission "stories" hard to believe.

tp4unc

Would you like to buy my 95 Blazer's tranny? If so, I'll drive down HWY 220 and pick up as many pieces as I can find. I'll even hook you up with B&M Automotive, they are experts at repairing GM transmissions. Just let me know.

bud_light_dude

Naaah. I am sure you have enough to do, picking up all those Tundra valvetrain parts.....:)

I guess I should start worrying about my 91 K3500 with 209k miles. No overhauls or major repair and still going strong.

16.5k miles on my 99 Silverado Z71. Only shop work was to upgrade the computer code. Absolutely no complaints.

No thanks. I'll stick to my inferior GM trucks. Maybe someday I can step up into one of them superior Tundra's....That is if they quit puking parts out the hood....:)

tp4unc

I didn't say your GM is inferior...just that my Blazer's tranny was.

pcheng

Sorry for the comment on the punny S-10 tranny. I
was being sarcastic. I personally like GM trans.
Had a Turbo 350 and Turbo 400 in a 78 Grand Prix
and a Trans Am. I did the work on both and was
impressed with the way they were built. Just using
Bobby Joe's sarcasim. I can't say I personally
know anything about the Blazer's tranny.

I was trying to be funny... I guess I should leave that to the professionals too.

bg4dg

The TBA will post anything negative about Toys on any site. BLD, tell us how great the TH440 is, or the early TH700R4's. My buddy works at a salvage yard, and they won't even pull a TH440, (Grand prix, etc.) as a rebuildable CORE if it has over 50K. My old man's '91 one ton dually went through THREE trannies before it lasted through the warranty and he sold it. Even if everyone believes what you say about previous Toy ownership, you never had a trans failure. Flywheels are a lot cheaper than transmissions. If I thought GM was all junk, I wouldn't have bought my Z71, but it's only the TBA folks posting crap about Toys on Toy sites.

bud_light_dude

If you notice, I never "start" any crap on the Toyota topics. I have no beef with the Toyotas. I have owned my few. Didn't have great luck with them, but not terrible either. If they were itemed out exactly as a GM truck or car and cost exactly the same, I wouldn't care which I drove as long as they both could do the job and fit my need.

As to the TH440, not too familiar with them since they aren't in any of the trucks I have ever owned. Can't comment on your relatives 1 ton either other than to say that I have heard "stories" from many owners in various topics. Each have a bad thing to comment about a make they had an isolated problem with. Nobody I know has run into a GM truck transmission problem. What I mean by problem.....one where there was a recall or a tsb or other known widespread problem with any GM trannies. GM trannies and engines have always been very well designed and always have been capable of much higher duty than the vehicles they are put in, like the 4L60E in the S10's.

I guess by your philosophy, since my two Tacomas shot head gaskets at less than 40k miles, and the only Camry I have ever owned faithfully chewed up flywheels and starters and left me walking each time it did, I can factually say that all the Tacomas and Camry's have poor quality heads and flywheels??????

You don't make any more sense in your statements than I have heard about higher reliability in Toyota products.

Your relative with a bad GM transmission doesn't make GM transmissions any less quality than the heads and head gaskets on Toyotas any less quality because I had two Tacomas that had head gaskets take a fart on me.

Come up with a better angle.

bud_light_dude

No problem. We can have mutual respect in here no matter what we own, prefer, or drive. Our experiences, even bad, do not have to be revealed disrespectfully. The experiences owners of other makes have can be a positive thing if we keep the bias and slams out of the equation.

bud_light_dude

I was just "funnin" back at ya. No hard ball, no foul....:)

I guess someone has made a lift kit for the Tundra. Saw a nice one coming home today. Looked to be about 4" and had, guessing, equivelent of 33 inch tires on it???

Is this feasible as far as tire clearance if it were a 4" lift?

bud_light_dude

I would guess that the Tundra can take bigger than the 265s. The Tundra has more ground clearance than the domestics (yes, that is a compliment from me). That gives it more clearance for a taller tire, but don't know about the width. May have problems in turning. The Silverado can take a 285/75 tire on a stock truck, so I would think the Tundra could also (going on the higher ground clearance).

Like you though, I am waiting for my 265s to "tire" out, pun pun, so that I can put a lift and bigger BFG tires on. That is more of a restraint due to my wife than from me.....:)

z71bill

I do not think ground clearance has anything to do with fitting larger than stock tires. It is the room above the tire that causes the problem, not the space between the ground and the rear differential. If your logic was true then there would be no limit to the size tire you could install. The larger tire you put on the more ground clearance you have - so (using your logic) with more ground clearance you could install even larger tires ... and on and on...

bud_light_dude

Well, I see your logic, but I was going on the premise that more ground clearance probably means more body height as well. However, the Fords have more body height than the Silverado also, but have less ground clearance. So, I am not sure.

dokkop

I'm about to buy a nicely equipped 4WD Tundra (invoice+200 at several dealers in upstate NY) and have been reading the Tundra sites looking for info, but finding mostly proprietary BS, so I thought I'd add my own reason for liking Toyota:

After thirty years of straight 6 Chevy half tons, I went for a Toyota 1991 4WD. She's NEVER in the shop for anything but brakes, exhaust, etc. This little truck has hauled 2500+pound loads up my mountain,pulled 200 bale hay trailers (I can even get 2 900lb alfalfa bales in her sideways), cattle trailers, run through mud and crud like a billygoat and never once left me stranded. Starts every time, even in our -35 degree weather and will go anywhere(with a little weight in the bed and some common sense.} I paid $9800 new and she stills looks reasonably new, no rust, good upholstery, etc., and I'm not ashamed to sell it to a neighbor I like for $5000 - and he's getting a hell of a good little rig.

Next reason; my wife's 92 Camry V6 auto -same thing, never a problem in 120K, PLUS - a few years ago with about 70K she ran this poor thing from Albany to Lake George, 70 miles, at 70MPH, in 2nd gear! No idea what RPMs it was turning. I couldn't touch the engine,transmission or the console for a half hour, and stood around with a fire hose waiting for it to break into flames. Changed the engine oil and transmission fluid and it runs like a rabbit still.

Plus two other Camrys and a Corolla wagon, same story. Many miles and never, ever a single problem. I don't know much about mechanics except where the oil filter and drain plugs are - but unless Toyota quality has reallly gone down the tubes, the Tundra will be a good rig.

One final note - all the service rivalry BS - in my experience most people who talk trash about the military have never heard a round go off in anger. I expect most of that talk is coming from armchair warriors. If you haven't fought a war or two you should keep your military opinions to yourself.

bud_light_dude

1st off, I am glad you like your rice hopper.
2nd, All my Chevy trucks have been just as reliable as you say your Toyota has been, and definitely hauled and towed way more to boot.
3rd, I never talked trash about the military, rather made some people who did, think about the fact that all the branches of military fight for the same cause and I considered them all brothers.
Lastly, as far as valueing YOUR opinion and you asking me to keep my opinions to my self........

YOU CAN KISS MY HAIRY WHITE AMERICAN TRUCK OWNING [non-permissible content removed]!!!!

quadrunner500

I haven't fought a war. That won't keep me from expressing my opinion...that we owe all the valiant armed service men and women, many who paid the ultimate price, many serving now, to protect your right to have an opinion. I'll use mine to say thanks. I fly the flag proudly.

andy_jordan

who has served in the military, though not the US military, I have to say, that people like BLD make me wonder why we all bothered.

tundrasaursrex

Touche, Andy

meredith

Knock it off, children!....

This is Edmunds' Pickups Conference.
Edmunds doesn't care what your race is, or your religion, or your political party, or your sexual preference, or your age, or your gender, or your weight, or your educational level.

This is a truck forum. Talking about trucks is what we're here for. If you have another agenda, take it somewhere else.

Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host

rwellbaum2

I love my Tundra!!!!

meredith

The PICKUPS Conference has gotten WAY too big....

it is unwieldy to manage, and difficult to use for "newbies." There is entirely TOO much topic duplication, so I will be doing some SERIOUS topic consolidation in the next few weeks, getting us down to not more than 2-3 topics per vehicle type, and ultimately down to 200 topics or less.

THIS weeks consolidation candidates are: Tundra's, Tacoma's and Rangers.

In that vein,please consolidate this Tundra topic to Welcome Toyota Tundra - V and continue these discussions there.

Thanks!

Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host