I had a rental Corolla once and I almost took it back because I was so uncomfortable. I'm 6 feet, and I couldn't stand the front seat. The problem is that the front seat cushion is too short, and if you're taller, your legs will hang off of it like you're sitting on a bar stool.
The Civic seems like the obvious choice. You are concerned about fuel economy, you want to keep it for ten years, and you have an I-pod and go on road trips.
The Civic gets the best mileage, is Honda reliable, will be cheap when the 06s start coming out, and is I-pod compatible. If I were you, traveling through out-state MN, the I-pod compatability would be a huge plus.
I'd wait until the redesigned 06's start coming out, and then get a better deal on the 05s. I know the koreans have gotten better, but I'd still trust a Honda more in the long run.
i think the seat comfort comment is important. if you are uncomfortable driving the car, the extra 2 or 3 mpg's one car might get over another, doesn't seem so significant. i have a car that is not on your list, but has some related components, an '04 focus 4 door. it has a 2.3(different cylinder head, but otherwise same engine as mazda 3) and it's a manual transmission. i commute to work and do other short trips. on the highway i try to keep it to 65 mph. i'm getting about 31 mpg. i have gotten as low as 25 mpg one time. usually in the winter i get about 27+ mpg. my guess is that you will have no problem beating the edmunds mileage figures. over on blueovalnews there is a thread about a canadian publication that did a semi scientific test among small cars to see how far they woudl go on the same amount of gas. you might have to search a bit(school of free thought), but it may help.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I'm quite happy with my 2002 Civic. It's been reliable, and my tanks have varied from 28-34 MPG (usually around 32-33). I don't know why the reviewers only got 25 MPG on their test car.
Elantra, Spectra, Corolla, Civic, Mazda3 my requirements ... auto, AC, and cruise control Am I being unrealistic to expect ... 30 mpg in most driving conditions?
Backy and Newcar31are both right: the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic can meet your demands (29 mpg in overall driving according to Consumer Reports). The Mazda3, among CR's top rated cars, gets 27mpg. The Elantra although cheaper gets only 24 mpg; the Spectra offers 25 but due to poor offset crash test results is not recommended by CR.
p.s. compare insurance costs as there can be a significant difference.
The Civic is your best choice - (I own a Mazda3 BTW)
5 reasons
1. Better MPG - The Mazda3 only got about 20 MPG during the Edmunds test - I normally get between 18-20 with my harsh shifting Mazda3 automatic.
2. The cost of the Civic will be less
3. The HVAC system in SOME of Mazda3 has issues - SOME of the cars have weak AC systems - Mazda will not fix it. Also SOME cars have problems with the heater not warming up very good when the temp is below zero. Several owners from Canada posted the windows were always fogging over & even had ice forming on the side windows (inside the car) - clear signs of a weak HVAC system. I lived in MN for 4 years - I know the temps there are about the same as Canada.
4. Its not just that Honda has better reliability (which they do) - but if you have a problem MY EXPERIENCE is they also stand behind their cars better than Mazda - I would trade the 4 year 50K warranty on my Mazda3 for a 3 year 36K Honda warranty in a heartbeat. Honda will actually fix things that don't work. Mazda just says its NORMAL.
5. You will find out in the test drive that the Civic rides better - but is still pretty fun to drive (not as fun as the Mazda3 but compared to a mini van the Civic will be like a go cart).
if you are concerned about emissions, type 'green cars' in your browser search window. some of the results may surprise you. make sure the vehicle you are looking at is sold in the area where you live.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
The fact that the '06 Civics are almost here is important. That should make the remaining '05s available at bargain prices--so if you go that route don't pay over invoice for the '05 Civic, and you might even be able to do better that as I expect there will be some Honda-to-dealer incentives (Honda doesn't do direct-to-consumer rebates). The Corolla should be available for a nice discount too, and last time I checked there was even a rebate on it.
Another thing... be sure to get the side air bags, even if they are optional. The Corolla crash-tested well with the side air bags, one of the few small cars tested to date by the IIHS with a decent result there.
Civic is the only car to exceed its rated fuel economy (these are Imperial mpg, which are 20% more than US mpg).
Another option is the Echo -- it's got a big interior for its size and gets fantastic mpg. It's about to be redesigned, so you might want to wait for the 2006 model. It is much nicer looking.
By the way I test drove both Corolla and Civic last January and to say that Corolla has shorter seat and the Honda is not is misinformation. If you have narrowed down your choices to three or four cars and the price difference is not more than $500 between them then all of them deserve a test drive. Dont take our word regarding comfort level, youre the one whose going to drive it and you have to find out for yourself. By the way Corolla has the best EPA mileage and I can confirm that because I own one and is my daily driver. Reliability and Toyota, no need to elaborate.
Correction on that, Corolla NA has better EPA mileage than Civic NA. Now I expect some people here will dispute that but to my experience driving an 05 Corolla , I'm getting 42 MPG if I keep 50MPH on farm to market road here in Texas, 31MPG in a purely city driving and 38MPG on mixed City/Hwy driving. I've taken the Corolla on a 700miles trip (back and forth) averaging 75MPH and I've got 40MPG.
There are 5 cars with manual, and 5 cars with automatics. Although the Civic does have the best in class mileage, I would rather they compare cars with the same transmission. (Also, the Aerio is 4WD)
Car friends, thanks so much for the very helpful input last night. It's early in Wisconsin and I'm off to drive these cars. Won't make decision until after the weekend. I will post my experience tonight or tomorrow and look for more input from any of you. This has been a great help. Thanks, Dave
both Hyundai's Elantra and Kia's Spectra now are installed with CVVT engines(Continuously Variable Valve Timing), which reduce emissions and also help with gas mileage.
Remember, with Kia's Spectra you'll be getting by far the best looking sedan as well as a smooth, comfortable ride. BTW-Kia has fixed the crash test problem long ago on the Spectra. That was done long ago and all new models have acceptable crash test results. Edmunds reviewers commented on the low levels of cabin noise in the Kia Spectra as well.
Kia's Spectra you'll be getting by far the best looking sedan as well as a smooth, comfortable ride. Let me guess, you own a Kia and you're not biased. :P .
I'm referring to concern the frontal tests, not side-impact testing. The standard side airbags and side-curtain airbags down the rear will definitely help in the event of a side-impact collision. What other manufacturer is even offering side and side-curtain airbags as standard equipment besides Kia Motors? The answer is none of them are. The obvious optimum choice is the Kia Spectra.
Not if fuel economy is a concern. Compared to the Civic and Corolla, the mileage of the Kia is far from optimal. The Kia might be best for someone who needs to pay as little money as possible up front......but that shouldn't be too much of a concern with a 05' Civic since a completely re-designed model is being introduced.
What i find amazing is a 2001 Civic has a better crash test rating then a 2005 Kia Spectra. (frontal)
What other manufacturer is even offering side and side-curtain airbags as standard equipment besides Kia Motors? The answer is none of them are. I think they should have first improved on their frontal crash test rating. Also, even if they do offer side-curtain airbags standard it still got a POOR.
The Civic, Mazda3, Cobalt and Corolla are all safer then the Spectra.
Well , I was a little bit disappointed after getting just 40MPG on my first road trip on the Corolla but since I'm doing 75-80 all the time on that trip It was understandable. Back on the topic. As far as looks, which one is the best looking compact sedan, I would say the mazda 3 hands down. But I wouldnt want you to take my word for it. Looks is subjective so you must decide for your own.
I vote for my 03 CIVIC Hybrid. It has side air bags and gets over 52 mpg, has 10K between oil changes and the brakes will last forever with regen doing most of the work. I have gotten over 60 mpg many times even with air conditioning here in Arizona. Jim
I've read all the messages to about 9:30 this evening and appreciated all the input. So here's a run down on my shopping trip which may be of interest and I invite further input since I'm probably going to make a decision tomorrow (27th).
We began with the Elantra which we took down the interstate for a nice ride and we liked the feel and quiet and it felt pretty peppy. Nothing not to like, it seemed. Price 14,386.
Next the Kia Spectra. Nice looking car inside and out, but getting on the interstate and accelerating up to highway speed the engine was annoyingly roaring. Also, to get cruise control factory installed I would have to bump up to a package that was priced at 15,759 with a choice of 1750 rebate or 1.9% financing. I felt underwhelmed by this car.
Next the Civic and I wanted badly to like it. The dealer had only one LX which met my specs and no other Civic on the lot. He offered the invoice price of 15,500 no other incentives. We did like it. It felt like a quality car. But the ride was harsh. I felt all the filled cracks in the road right under my seat. But it was peppy enough and handled nicely and the interior looked good. We also like the low key salesman and the gorgeous showroom. High mpg's seemed like frosting on the cake.
Off to drive the Corolla. The dealer had no new CE's on the lot which meet my specs. But there was a used 2005 CE with 21,000 miles which we drove on the highway and we took a very short city drive in an LE which had been sold. We ended up quite impressed with the Corolla. The ride was wonderful, it was quiet, the seats did not seem to be any problem and the Corolla gives the highest seating perspective. It almost felt like driving our minivan. Saleslady thought she could find one at another dealer at a price of 15,336 with 4.9 financing for 60 months the only incentive. But it would not have keyless entry or power locks and windows. The other 4 cars we tested all had this in the models we drove. But the Corolla really grabbed us.
Finally, on to test the Mazda3 i. It seemed like a throwaway test because it would be the most money and, presumably the poorest mpg's. The dealer had only one Mazda3 i, equipped as I needed with a few extras, mainly a rear spoiler. Questionable whether he could find another one at their nearby parent dealer with nothing to trade for it. Short version of the story. Both my wife and I were kind of blown away by the look and feel of this car. I was quiet, smooth, peppy, nicely appointed, comfortable, etc. What you'd expect from the top rated car. He offered me invoice price of 16,386. The epa rating posted on this model was 26/34. I pressed him hard on the mpg issue and also talked to the sales manager. They were confident that with more or less conservative driving we could expect to do better than 34 mpg.
Without yet crunching all my numbers it is clear that the Elantra would be the least expensive up front investment. But we are really down to Mazda, Corolla, and Civic, probably in that order, with a default leaning to the Mazda if the initial cost doesn't seem too drastic compared to the other two. Any thoughts tonight or tomorrow would be welcome. Thanks, Dave
I have had my Mazda3S MT for 20 months now, 23,000 miles. Just filled the gas tank today: 442 miles and 11.8 gallons. That is a little better than usual mileage; I have been averaging about 36mpg. I have had only one complaint with the car- weak A/C. After taking it in for service 3-4 times, the dealer did some adjustment so now the A/C is adequate but not great. Otherwise, the car is great. It is one of the few small cars that I wouldn't hesitate to drive cross country. I test drove the Corolla and Civic and pretty much agree with your evaluations. I thought the ergonomics of the Corolla were a little off. Good luck with your choice.
Where are you doing your shopping? The prices you are being quoted seem high. For instance, in today's ads in Minneapolis the Mazda3s (high-trim, not the lower-priced 3i) was advertised for just over $16k. Invoice on the Corolla LE with side air bags and curtains and cruise is about $15,500, so the offer for $15,300 on a CE seems high. The '06 Corollas are almost here, so the dealers should be more willing to discount to move them. The $15.5k invoice for the Civic LX automatic sounds about right--is that with side air bags though? I don't know what equipment you looked at on the Elantra, but an automatic GLS with cruise should be under $13k after rebate. Don't bother springing for the CD upgrade, since they charge too much for it and you just want to plug in your iPod anyway, which you can do using the cassette deck and an inexpensive adapter.
If you aren't shopping in a major metro area like the Twin Cities, I highly recommend you do that to get better prices.
I agree. Like I said price your car on car manufacturer website so that you know what goes with what options and then price them here at Edmunds to get your TMV price. Print it and take it to the dealership. By the way a CE without power windows and locks for 15.4K is a ripp off. I got my Corolla S with extra value package for just 15.3K + TTL.
Thanks dog for your real world test drive results. Quick question on your brief analysis of the two Korean entrants, the Spectra/Elantra twins (I'm reeeeeally closin' in on this thing myself here and will be moving to a new ride I think next month and am very much interested in your comments). While you seem so-so on the Elantra (could go either way depending on final price...it seems if I'm readin' ya right.), you down right dislike the Spectra. Same engine in both vehicles yet totally different test drive experience. You mention the Elantra to be a "nice ride", peppy and quiet yet the Kia roars when entering the highway and has totally "unwhelmed" ya. Why is that? Were you driving the hatchback versions of these cars or the sedans (I'm guessing sedans.)? Auto? Manual? Just curious as my aspirations are towards a car with the 5 door wagon setup/5speed with ABS (Elantra GT 5 door, Elantra GLS 5 door, Spectra5 and maaaaaybe...if I recount the leaves on my tree out back Meade and a couple new branches appear, the Zoomer hatch by Mazda ).
Went back over that Edmunds comparison article and they sure seem convinced the Spectra (3rd place in a somewhat subjective final analysis) out performs the Elantra (5th place). Your results are quite the opposite. Expound away test driver! Expound away! I'm all eyeballs.
PS: Spectra beats Elantra on gas mileage (important to me in a commuter car) Secondly, rebate offered on the Spectra is $500 more than the Elantra at the moment (500 clams is 500 clams!). PSS All you Protege5 owners & ex-owners: the more I look at pictures of this Spec5 by Kia, the more I swear I'm lookin' at a copycat '03 Pro' 5 door. But the Zoomer was bulletproof. Kia? Hmmm...
I'm shopping in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, the only near town with foreign car dealers. On the Mazda, the dealer was giving me the "internet" price which was invoice 16,386. The car he had had a spoiler as part of a package. Like the Corolla dealer who had no new CE's to sell me, this was the only Mazda3 i on his lot. Maybe that effects the pricing but you now make me want to check out what's available in the Twins so I think I'll do that. Civic did not have side air bags. A Minneapolis Elantra dealer is pursuing my business offering invoice pricing, they keep the rebate and I would get the financing deal. The Elantra had power windows, locks, keyless entry, radio cassette (all I need as you point out). For initial investment and a long warranty the Elantra is probably my best buy. But I'm leery of getting mid to high 30's on gas mileage and have been seduced by the quality and personality of the Mazda3. But you inspire me to dig deeper on the price issue.
By all means take the short drive to the Twin Cities to see what you can get there. There are some dealers on the east side you could check out, e.g. Maplewood Toyota and White Bear Mazda, and Inver Grove Hyundai.
Re Spectra getting better mpg than Elantra... that is not what real-world results have shown, based on review of the Spectra and Elantra discussions here over the past couple of years.
Lol, you've been "seduced" by the Mazda3. I guess that's it then, you should buy what you like most.
Try Walser Mazda in Burnsville, they do that "no haggle" pricing. Go to mazdausa.com and look at Walser's inventory online, then call them up and ask them what their best price is on a car that your interested in. You could use that price and shop around the other Twin Cities Mazda dealers, or you could reward Walser for having the "no haggle" pricing and just buy there. I have experience with Morries and Walser, and I prefer Walser because Morries lied to me and told me that Mazda didn't build the car with the options that I wanted.
I bought my Mazda6 from Walser and I got a great deal.
Well, guess what. I got a referral from a friend this morning directly to a salesperson at Walser. She got on the internet and found only 5 Mazda3 i's in the entire area. She identified one in the same MSRP price range that we drove in Eau Claire but the EC price was better. Walser was 1,000 under MSRP and Morries price was invoice. So I called to put down a deposit to hold the car we tested. The sales guy took my card number, said he would call back in a moment after he had nailed everything down. 20 minutes or so later he called to say that the red car we drove had just been grabbed out from under me by another buyer but they located a silver one and grabbed it for me, same price same equipment except for the spoiler. As it turned out I'm sure that is the car that the Walser dealer had found for me when I called this morning.
Bottom line, we have sprung for a Mazda3, one of the last 2005's in the area. Had one not been available I'm sure we would never be a Mazda3 owner and would have looked for a Corolla. I hope you are all happy for me. The Mazda experiences that have been reported encourage me that we've made a good choice and I will discuss the AC problem immediately with my sales guy and get assurance they will work to get the AC and heating working properly if it doesn't perform. All for now.
Oh, BTW, the Civic dealer called me back and said that Honda has suddenly put in an incentive financing deal for the remaining Civics. He didn't say what it was, but if you are shopping for a Civic and can find one you might get good financing. All for now but I'll keep you posted on my Mazda experience. Dave
Chances are your car will not have the AC defect - it is only in a small % of cars. So the odds are in your favor!
I will go WAY WAY out on a limb and predict that - if you ask the sales person about future AC (or heater) problems that they will tell you that the system is covered under warranty for 4 years and 50K miles - so don't worry about it.
The sad thing is - Mazda will not fix the cars that have weak AC systems - they just say its normal. I know this because I got stuck with a car that has a very weak AC -
My advise - really check the HVAC system out before you sign the contract - last time I checked the weather in MN the high temp was 78 degrees - it will be difficult to test it with the temp that low - I would look at the date the car was manufactured - it is on the inside of the drivers side door - if it was produced before May I would wonder why it is still available - maybe it was hard to sell a car with a weak AC in the middle of the summer.
I would also pay extra attention to the 1st - 2nd shift (if you are getting an automatic) -
Start off slowly and see if the shift between 1-2 is smooth - shows up more when the engine is cold & seems to go away (mostly) after car is fully warmed up.
Zoomzoomitis: you sound like a guy who might go ape for the Mazda3 i, of which I just bought probably the last one available in the entire metropolitan and out state area around the Twin Cities. I called for the one we test drove a half hour too late but they found one more at the parent dealership and nailed it down for me.
As to the Spectra: We drove the sedan GT which lacked the cruise control I required. It could be added at the dealer's but would protrude oddly fromthe wheel and I didn't want to mess with that kind of attachment. To get the factory cruise I had to bump up a whole array of power stuff and add another $850 to the price. So that put me off a bit. Mostly my reaction was based on just having driven an Elantra that was priced better, had all the power options plus cruise control and felt and looked good. I expected pretty much a carbon copy in the Spectra but just a couple of mundane things about the interior bugged me. e.g. no separate power outlet in the front other than a cigarette lighter while the Elantra had both. As to the engine, the Elantra seemed quieter as it accelerated to highway speed whereas the Spectra was rather noisy. So the things that "underwhelmed" me were really in relation to the Elantra experience. The Spectra is obviously a good buy along with the Elantra so I wouldn't read too much into my disappointment. When I drove the Civic, Corolla and Mazda3 the Spectra faded further, so it was all relative. If I was only going with the lowest priced car and a long warranty I would have bought the Elantra. It's just that the mazda3 had lots of personality and an upscale feel to it and at our age, getting a car we'd plan to drive well into my 80's it seemed like it was worth the extra money to do what was going to be most pleasing to us. And I'm satisfiied that we will get good mpg's, probably better than Elantra. So good luck on your Spectra shopping and don't give too much credence to my unenthusiastic report. Any of the 5 cars I looked at could have made a good buy. Dave
Thanks for sharing all these details with me. I told my sales person about the stories I was told (here) about the AC and heating and asked whether if they occurred with my car would the dealership work with me to get them right. He answered, "of course". He also said he had never heard of the problem and speculated that as the model year wore on it might have been corrected. So, yes, I don't anticipate it will be a problem, but I'll do my best to check on the details you point out. Big help, much appreciated. I expect to get the car on Monday. Pat has encouraged me to join the Mazda3 discussion so I hope to do that. Dave
Thanks again sammi for your response to my questions and sorry 'bout the delay in responding back. Been shakin' this money tree I've got out back and the dang thing just will not produce! Tried waterin', fertilizin', talkin' "gentler and kinder" etc. etc. but it just seems I'm gonna hafta go cheeeeeeap on this next purchase.
Coming down to the Spec5 vs. Elantra GT 5 door I'm afraid. As good as that Zoomer 3 is, I just can't justify the price...on principal. Not a rebate in sight it seems, not even for us loyal Zoom-Zoomists. Thinking end of next month the ol' market forces will be takin' place and I'll end up with an Elantra at this point. Just seems there's more of 'em about than anything else I've been looking at which leads me to believe lower ultimate price. Supply on these rods definitely exceeds demand at the moment. This most recent article just adds fuel to the fire (as in Fire Sale!) with it's lowly opinion of the Elantra in comparision to the others in the test. Oh well, thinks that actually benefits me when I start the serious hagglin' (Comparison test printed off computer and in hand).
Again, thanks for your comments and I wish you all the best Zoomin' into the sunset...of life.
Get a Corolla , much better relaibility and much better mpg especaily with the 5-speed. Of the two Hyundai has much better reports than the Suzuki ( or Kia for that matter).
When it comes to the scores they use EPA MPG estimates not what they actually get during the test.
Not sure why they would do that - but they do.
I could understand just looking the other way on MPG figures if you were rating a sports or luxury car - but for an ECONOMY car that seems strange. Could say the same thing on purchase price - in this class it should be more important -
Does Edmunds always use the same rating scale? Or do they look at the scores - decide which car should win - then adjust the scoring so that the results come out the way the advertisers wanted!
and something is amiss when the lowest miles per gallon sedan,20.8 , wins
The 2005 Mazda3 AT tested is rated 24/29 by the EPA, comparable to the Forenza. But the 2006 models get an EPA rating of 25/32 MPG because of an added 5th gear! So, starting with the 2006 model, the Mazda3 shouldn't get significantly worse gas mileage than any of the other compared sedans except for the Civic. It actually will beat the Elantra, Cobalt, and Forenza (according to the EPA).
There are way, way too many subjective criteria.
Yes, the criteria is subjective...there's no real way to make it 100% objective. If there was an objective "best" car, everyone would be driving the same exact thing around. That's why everyone needs to test drive cars before buying and make their own decision. I test drove a Mazda3, and loved it so much more than anything else in its category, so my opinion lines up well with the reviewers.
real world mileage for many vehicles differs from the epa estimates. there are just too many variances. imo, the criteria of most reviews does not include maximizing gas mileage.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I drove my Mazda3 i home last night. 40 miles, about 2/3rds hwy. It handles like a dream. Because it had been moved around between 2 or 3 dealers through trades and had to come around 80 miles to my dealer the car had 677 miles on it so was, in effect, already broken in. But it had never been sold. I can report that the AC is putting forth plenty of cool air and the shift from one to two gear is smooth, seamless, almost unnoticeable without seeing the numbers on the display. I drove away with a full tank of gas in a town that just hit $3 a gallon. I probably have two weeks worth of driving at least before I buy my first tank. I literally got the last "i" in the region. Had I missed, I'm sure I would have gone for a Corolla. But I'm happy to have nabbed this baby. As to the lower mpg's that have been reported, it may be that some of those test cars were the "s" model that has the 160 horsepower engine and is not rated as high for mpg. Earlier reports on this forum from one or two Mazda3 owners reported mid to high 30's. I plan to drive conservatively and stick to speed limits so I'm hopeful my mileage will stay in the 30's. But we will see. In the meantime I'm going to love driving it.
my 2005 corolla le gets 28 mpg in the city when i drive aggressive and i get well over 30 mpg combined driving. i also cant figure out why the corolla wasn't in the compact car review, as it would have finished in the top 3 for sure as its price, fuel economy and interior quality and features are top notch.
i like alot of the cars that were tested, but do yourself a favor and get the corolla. i bought mine for the very same reasons you need one; 1) i needed the best fuel economy available without having to shell out $20k for a hybrid. 2) i need the car to last 8+ years while i finish my undergrad degree and try to complete a grad school ed. 3) i wanted something i would actually like to drive for those 8+ years.
I get about 32.1 mpg on my Elantra City/hwy mixed. I had no problem with mileage and my car is very reliable thus far. Corollas or not bad, but Elantra is not a bad choice either. By the way, my friend's Corolla had engine problems within 2 years of driving. Does that mean all Corollas are bad? no. Just my two cents.
I kind of chuckled when I read your post. First off, driving a Corolla aggressively is an oxymoron in and of itself. Can you say mutually exclusive terms here????
As for not understanding why the Corolla was not part of the 2005 review because as you put it, "as it would have finished in the top 3 for sure as its price, fuel economy and interior quality and features are top notch."
I can clearly tell you why it was not included in this 2005 comparison. First, it is because the best it could finish in 2003, during the last Edmunds economy review, was 5th place out of 8 cars tested. Incidentally, this was just after Toyota completely redesigned the Corolla to make it "more improved". The Corolla beat such luminaries in the test such as, The Mitsubishi Lancer, The Suzuki Areoli and the vaunted Saturn Ion 2. Since the Corolla has not been redesigned in any significant sense, why would they place it back in a test to compete against cars that have been greatly improved, such as the Protege becoming the Mazda 3. The Civic was at least relevant to be re-included considering it won the test last time. In the 2005 test, the Corolla, at best, may have beaten out the Suzuki Forenza to avoid last place. I think it would even have been a stretch to beat out Chevy Cobalt.
I agree that the Corolla has good fuel economy, nice interior quality and a good history of reliability and safety. However, this is entirely where it ends. The car is the epitome of bland and boring, has class leading handling issues with excessive body roll, average braking at best and the engine and gear set-up is as un-inspiring as well, the rest of the car. It is like driving a toaster except with worse handling.
To your other points: 1) There are superior cars in the same class as the Corolla with either better, or comparable fuel economy. Most of the cars with slightly poorer fuel economy have a lot more engine displacement and HP than the Corolla and there is always a trade-off. 2) 8 years is not a long time in the life of most modern cars. Any well built car should easily last that long with a minimum of fuss. 3) You wanted something that was fun to drive for 8 years.....well, the Corolla isn't fun to drive brand new and is already outdated in its current class. Perhaps if I was an 85 year old grandma, no offense to grandmother's anywhere, this car may seem fun to drive. Failing that, I'd just buy a big ole Buick or Caddy to complement my aged blue hair.
Corolla...fun to drive...exciting.....all in the same sentence too. Thanks, that made my day. I needed the chuckle. :P
P.S.- Incidentally, the Corolla also finished in 7th place out of 9 cars in Edmunds 2000 Economy Sedan Camparison test. It did manage to beat out, albeit barely, a poorly outdated and soon to be remodelled Civic which came in 8th and the astounding Dodge Neon ES in 9th and last place. Less than half a percentage point seperated the final 3 contestants. :lemon:
The Corolla doesn't get much respect from the auto mags (it ranked pretty low in C/D's comparo too, behind the likes of the old Protege and the Elantra GLS). But if what someone needs is a roomy (for a compact), comfortable-riding, high-quality, high-mpg, reliable small car, it is a good choice. Not everyone is into "zoom-zoom", all they want and need is to get from Point A to Point B with minimal fuss and muss (and cost). The Corolla does that very well--if you fit in the driver's seat. But in a year it will be one of the oldest small cars. Very tough competition for the 'rolla: Mazda3 (due for mid-gen refresh next fall), an all-new Civic tomorrow, the all-new Elantra and Sentra next year...
Comments
The Civic seems like the obvious choice. You are concerned about fuel economy, you want to keep it for ten years, and you have an I-pod and go on road trips.
The Civic gets the best mileage, is Honda reliable, will be cheap when the 06s start coming out, and is I-pod compatible. If I were you, traveling through out-state MN, the I-pod compatability would be a huge plus.
I'd wait until the redesigned 06's start coming out, and then get a better deal on the 05s. I know the koreans have gotten better, but I'd still trust a Honda more in the long run.
i have a car that is not on your list, but has some related components, an '04 focus 4 door.
it has a 2.3(different cylinder head, but otherwise same engine as mazda 3) and it's a manual transmission. i commute to work and do other short trips. on the highway i try to keep it to 65 mph. i'm getting about 31 mpg. i have gotten as low as 25 mpg one time. usually in the winter i get about 27+ mpg.
my guess is that you will have no problem beating the edmunds mileage figures.
over on blueovalnews there is a thread about a canadian publication that did a semi scientific test among small cars to see how far they woudl go on the same amount of gas. you might have to search a bit(school of free thought), but it may help.
Steve
my requirements ... auto, AC, and cruise control
Am I being unrealistic to expect ... 30 mpg in most driving conditions?
Backy and Newcar31are both right: the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic can meet your demands (29 mpg in overall driving according to Consumer Reports). The Mazda3, among CR's top rated cars, gets 27mpg. The Elantra although cheaper gets only 24 mpg; the Spectra offers 25 but due to poor offset crash test results is not recommended by CR.
p.s. compare insurance costs as there can be a significant difference.
5 reasons
1. Better MPG - The Mazda3 only got about 20 MPG during the Edmunds test - I normally get between 18-20 with my harsh shifting Mazda3 automatic.
2. The cost of the Civic will be less
3. The HVAC system in SOME of Mazda3 has issues - SOME of the cars have weak AC systems - Mazda will not fix it. Also SOME cars have problems with the heater not warming up very good when the temp is below zero. Several owners from Canada posted the windows were always fogging over & even had ice forming on the side windows (inside the car) - clear signs of a weak HVAC system. I lived in MN for 4 years - I know the temps there are about the same as Canada.
4. Its not just that Honda has better reliability (which they do) - but if you have a problem MY EXPERIENCE is they also stand behind their cars better than Mazda - I would trade the 4 year 50K warranty on my Mazda3 for a 3 year 36K Honda warranty in a heartbeat. Honda will actually fix things that don't work. Mazda just says its NORMAL.
5. You will find out in the test drive that the Civic rides better - but is still pretty fun to drive (not as fun as the Mazda3 but compared to a mini van the Civic will be like a go cart).
Another thing... be sure to get the side air bags, even if they are optional. The Corolla crash-tested well with the side air bags, one of the few small cars tested to date by the IIHS with a decent result there.
Civic is the only car to exceed its rated fuel economy (these are Imperial mpg, which are 20% more than US mpg).
Another option is the Echo -- it's got a big interior for its size and gets fantastic mpg. It's about to be redesigned, so you might want to wait for the 2006 model. It is much nicer looking.
If you have narrowed down your choices to three or four cars and the price difference is not more than $500 between them then all of them deserve a test drive. Dont take our word regarding comfort level, youre the one whose going to drive it and you have to find out for yourself. By the way Corolla has the best EPA mileage and I can confirm that because I own one and is my daily driver. Reliability and Toyota, no need to elaborate.
Now I expect some people here will dispute that but to my experience driving an 05 Corolla , I'm getting 42 MPG if I keep 50MPH on farm to market road here in Texas, 31MPG in a purely city driving and 38MPG on mixed City/Hwy driving. I've taken the Corolla on a 700miles trip (back and forth) averaging 75MPH and I've got 40MPG.
Also, my brother gets 30 mpg in city (Minneapolis) driving. The Corolla and Civic are both going to get similiar mpg.
The reason why I think the Civic is best over the Corolla for this guy is because:
1. The redesigned 06s are almost out, the 05s should be a good deal.
2. I-pod compatibility
And one more thing, I personally think the Civic looks a lot better than the Corolla.
ANY car will get excellent mileage if you're going a steady 50 mph in top gear.
Remember, with Kia's Spectra you'll be getting by far the best looking sedan as well as a smooth, comfortable ride. BTW-Kia has fixed the crash test problem long ago on the Spectra. That was done long ago and all new models have acceptable crash test results. Edmunds reviewers commented on the low levels of cabin noise in the Kia Spectra as well.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Lol, that's something that you need to point out and something that he needs to remember? If you say so......
I think people can decide for themselves which sedan is "by far the best looking".
What is your source for this information? According to IIHS, the Spectra continues to show a Poor rating for side impact crash tests. See: http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/side/s0422.htm
Kia's Spectra you'll be getting by far the best looking sedan as well as a smooth, comfortable ride.
Let me guess, you own a Kia and you're not biased. :P .
I know, looks are subjective. Yeah, right.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Not if fuel economy is a concern. Compared to the Civic and Corolla, the mileage of the Kia is far from optimal. The Kia might be best for someone who needs to pay as little money as possible up front......but that shouldn't be too much of a concern with a 05' Civic since a completely re-designed model is being introduced.
What other manufacturer is even offering side and side-curtain airbags as standard equipment besides Kia Motors? The answer is none of them are.
I think they should have first improved on their frontal crash test rating. Also, even if they do offer side-curtain airbags standard it still got a POOR.
The Civic, Mazda3, Cobalt and Corolla are all safer then the Spectra.
Back on the topic. As far as looks, which one is the best looking compact sedan, I would say the mazda 3 hands down. But I wouldnt want you to take my word for it. Looks is subjective so you must decide for your own.
Jim
We began with the Elantra which we took down the interstate for a nice ride and we liked the feel and quiet and it felt pretty peppy. Nothing not to like, it seemed. Price 14,386.
Next the Kia Spectra. Nice looking car inside and out, but getting on the interstate and accelerating up to highway speed the engine was annoyingly roaring. Also, to get cruise control factory installed I would have to bump up to a package that was priced at 15,759 with a choice of 1750 rebate or 1.9% financing. I felt underwhelmed by this car.
Next the Civic and I wanted badly to like it. The dealer had only one LX which met my specs and no other Civic on the lot. He offered the invoice price of 15,500 no other incentives. We did like it. It felt like a quality car. But the ride was harsh. I felt all the filled cracks in the road right under my seat. But it was peppy enough and handled nicely and the interior looked good. We also like the low key salesman and the gorgeous showroom. High mpg's seemed like frosting on the cake.
Off to drive the Corolla. The dealer had no new CE's on the lot which meet my specs. But there was a used 2005 CE with 21,000 miles which we drove on the highway and we took a very short city drive in an LE which had been sold. We ended up quite impressed with the Corolla. The ride was wonderful, it was quiet, the seats did not seem to be any problem and the Corolla gives the highest seating perspective. It almost felt like driving our minivan. Saleslady thought she could find one at another dealer at a price of 15,336 with 4.9 financing for 60 months the only incentive. But it would not have keyless entry or power locks and windows. The other 4 cars we tested all had this in the models we drove. But the Corolla really grabbed us.
Finally, on to test the Mazda3 i. It seemed like a throwaway test because it would be the most money and, presumably the poorest mpg's. The dealer had only one Mazda3 i, equipped as I needed with a few extras, mainly a rear spoiler. Questionable whether he could find another one at their nearby parent dealer with nothing to trade for it. Short version of the story. Both my wife and I were kind of blown away by the look and feel of this car. I was quiet, smooth, peppy, nicely appointed, comfortable, etc. What you'd expect from the top rated car. He offered me invoice price of 16,386. The epa rating posted on this model was 26/34. I pressed him hard on the mpg issue and also talked to the sales manager. They were confident that with more or less conservative driving we could expect to do better than 34 mpg.
Without yet crunching all my numbers it is clear that the Elantra would be the least expensive up front investment. But we are really down to Mazda, Corolla, and Civic, probably in that order, with a default leaning to the Mazda if the initial cost doesn't seem too drastic compared to the other two. Any thoughts tonight or tomorrow would be welcome. Thanks, Dave
If you aren't shopping in a major metro area like the Twin Cities, I highly recommend you do that to get better prices.
By the way a CE without power windows and locks for 15.4K is a ripp off. I got my Corolla S with extra value package for just 15.3K + TTL.
Went back over that Edmunds comparison article and they sure seem convinced the Spectra (3rd place in a somewhat subjective final analysis) out performs the Elantra (5th place). Your results are quite the opposite. Expound away test driver! Expound away! I'm all eyeballs.
PS: Spectra beats Elantra on gas mileage (important to me in a commuter car) Secondly, rebate offered on the Spectra is $500 more than the Elantra at the moment (500 clams is 500 clams!).
PSS All you Protege5 owners & ex-owners: the more I look at pictures of this Spec5 by Kia, the more I swear I'm lookin' at a copycat '03 Pro' 5 door. But the Zoomer was bulletproof. Kia? Hmmm...
Re Spectra getting better mpg than Elantra... that is not what real-world results have shown, based on review of the Spectra and Elantra discussions here over the past couple of years.
Try Walser Mazda in Burnsville, they do that "no haggle" pricing. Go to mazdausa.com and look at Walser's inventory online, then call them up and ask them what their best price is on a car that your interested in. You could use that price and shop around the other Twin Cities Mazda dealers, or you could reward Walser for having the "no haggle" pricing and just buy there. I have experience with Morries and Walser, and I prefer Walser because Morries lied to me and told me that Mazda didn't build the car with the options that I wanted.
I bought my Mazda6 from Walser and I got a great deal.
Bottom line, we have sprung for a Mazda3, one of the last 2005's in the area. Had one not been available I'm sure we would never be a Mazda3 owner and would have looked for a Corolla. I hope you are all happy for me. The Mazda experiences that have been reported encourage me that we've made a good choice and I will discuss the AC problem immediately with my sales guy and get assurance they will work to get the AC and heating working properly if it doesn't perform. All for now.
Oh, BTW, the Civic dealer called me back and said that Honda has suddenly put in an incentive financing deal for the remaining Civics. He didn't say what it was, but if you are shopping for a Civic and can find one you might get good financing. All for now but I'll keep you posted on my Mazda experience. Dave
I hope you'll join other 3 enthusiasts in the Mazda3 Sedan discussion. You'll enjoy talking about your and their experiences, I'm sure.
Zoom, zoom!
I will go WAY WAY out on a limb and predict that - if you ask the sales person about future AC (or heater) problems that they will tell you that the system is covered under warranty for 4 years and 50K miles - so don't worry about it.
The sad thing is - Mazda will not fix the cars that have weak AC systems - they just say its normal. I know this because I got stuck with a car that has a very weak AC -
My advise - really check the HVAC system out before you sign the contract - last time I checked the weather in MN the high temp was 78 degrees - it will be difficult to test it with the temp that low - I would look at the date the car was manufactured - it is on the inside of the drivers side door - if it was produced before May I would wonder why it is still available - maybe it was hard to sell a car with a weak AC in the middle of the summer.
I would also pay extra attention to the 1st - 2nd shift (if you are getting an automatic) -
Start off slowly and see if the shift between 1-2 is smooth - shows up more when the engine is cold & seems to go away (mostly) after car is fully warmed up.
This is another problem that Mazda will not fix -
Good Luck.
As to the Spectra: We drove the sedan GT which lacked the cruise control I required. It could be added at the dealer's but would protrude oddly fromthe wheel and I didn't want to mess with that kind of attachment. To get the factory cruise I had to bump up a whole array of power stuff and add another $850 to the price. So that put me off a bit. Mostly my reaction was based on just having driven an Elantra that was priced better, had all the power options plus cruise control and felt and looked good. I expected pretty much a carbon copy in the Spectra but just a couple of mundane things about the interior bugged me. e.g. no separate power outlet in the front other than a cigarette lighter while the Elantra had both. As to the engine, the Elantra seemed quieter as it accelerated to highway speed whereas the Spectra was rather noisy. So the things that "underwhelmed" me were really in relation to the Elantra experience. The Spectra is obviously a good buy along with the Elantra so I wouldn't read too much into my disappointment. When I drove the Civic, Corolla and Mazda3 the Spectra faded further, so it was all relative. If I was only going with the lowest priced car and a long warranty I would have bought the Elantra. It's just that the mazda3 had lots of personality and an upscale feel to it and at our age, getting a car we'd plan to drive well into my 80's it seemed like it was worth the extra money to do what was going to be most pleasing to us. And I'm satisfiied that we will get good mpg's, probably better than Elantra. So good luck on your Spectra shopping and don't give too much credence to my unenthusiastic report. Any of the 5 cars I looked at could have made a good buy. Dave
Coming down to the Spec5 vs. Elantra GT 5 door I'm afraid. As good as that Zoomer 3 is, I just can't justify the price...on principal. Not a rebate in sight it seems, not even for us loyal Zoom-Zoomists.
Again, thanks for your comments and I wish you all the best Zoomin' into the sunset...of life.
There are way, way too many subjective criteria.
My Accord Coupe gets much better mileage and it has a V6 6-speed.
cheers,
MidCow
Not sure why they would do that - but they do.
I could understand just looking the other way on MPG figures if you were rating a sports or luxury car - but for an ECONOMY car that seems strange. Could say the same thing on purchase price - in this class it should be more important -
Does Edmunds always use the same rating scale? Or do they look at the scores - decide which car should win - then adjust the scoring so that the results come out the way the advertisers wanted!
The 2005 Mazda3 AT tested is rated 24/29 by the EPA, comparable to the Forenza. But the 2006 models get an EPA rating of 25/32 MPG because of an added 5th gear! So, starting with the 2006 model, the Mazda3 shouldn't get significantly worse gas mileage than any of the other compared sedans except for the Civic. It actually will beat the Elantra, Cobalt, and Forenza (according to the EPA).
There are way, way too many subjective criteria.
Yes, the criteria is subjective...there's no real way to make it 100% objective. If there was an objective "best" car, everyone would be driving the same exact thing around. That's why everyone needs to test drive cars before buying and make their own decision. I test drove a Mazda3, and loved it so much more than anything else in its category, so my opinion lines up well with the reviewers.
Zoom Zoom y'all!
The Sandman
Meade
i like alot of the cars that were tested, but do yourself a favor and get the corolla.
i bought mine for the very same reasons you need one;
1) i needed the best fuel economy available without having to shell out $20k for a hybrid.
2) i need the car to last 8+ years while i finish my undergrad degree and try to complete a grad school ed.
3) i wanted something i would actually like to drive for those 8+ years.
i hope this helps.
I kind of chuckled when I read your post. First off, driving a Corolla aggressively is an oxymoron in and of itself. Can you say mutually exclusive terms here????
As for not understanding why the Corolla was not part of the 2005 review because as you put it, "as it would have finished in the top 3 for sure as its price, fuel economy and interior quality and features are top notch."
I can clearly tell you why it was not included in this 2005 comparison. First, it is because the best it could finish in 2003, during the last Edmunds economy review, was 5th place out of 8 cars tested. Incidentally, this was just after Toyota completely redesigned the Corolla to make it "more improved". The Corolla beat such luminaries in the test such as, The Mitsubishi Lancer, The Suzuki Areoli
I agree that the Corolla has good fuel economy, nice interior quality and a good history of reliability and safety. However, this is entirely where it ends. The car is the epitome of bland and boring, has class leading handling issues with excessive body roll, average braking at best and the engine and gear set-up is as un-inspiring as well, the rest of the car. It is like driving a toaster except with worse handling.
To your other points:
1) There are superior cars in the same class as the Corolla with either better, or comparable fuel economy. Most of the cars with slightly poorer fuel economy have a lot more engine displacement and HP than the Corolla and there is always a trade-off.
2) 8 years is not a long time in the life of most modern cars. Any well built car should easily last that long with a minimum of fuss.
3) You wanted something that was fun to drive for 8 years.....well, the Corolla isn't fun to drive brand new and is already outdated in its current class. Perhaps if I was an 85 year old grandma, no offense to grandmother's anywhere, this car may seem fun to drive. Failing that, I'd just buy a big ole Buick or Caddy to complement my aged blue hair.
Corolla...fun to drive...exciting.....all in the same sentence too. Thanks, that made my day. I needed the chuckle.
P.S.- Incidentally, the Corolla also finished in 7th place out of 9 cars in Edmunds 2000 Economy Sedan Camparison test. It did manage to beat out, albeit barely, a poorly outdated and soon to be remodelled Civic which came in 8th and the astounding Dodge Neon ES in 9th and last place. Less than half a percentage point seperated the final 3 contestants. :lemon: