Economy Sedans (~$16k-$20k)

doohickie

It won't be hard for Hyundai to claim the new Elantra is "greatly improved" over previous models, will it?

Backy.... talk to your dealer about the console gear select light yet?

backy

No, there are other priorities. Like today I have to take my '01 Elantra into the body shop for an estimate because some bozo backed into it while my son was in his high-school parking lot.

doohickie

Ouch!

backy

I stopped into my local Kia dealer today to see if I could catch a look at the Rio5 (no, they just sold the two units they had) but I parked next to a 2006 Spectra EX sedan. It had automatic, cruise, and a rear spoiler and stickered for $16,350. I was taken aback, because a 2006 Elantra GLS automatic with cruise (standard), ABS/traction, moonroof, and mats is only $16,275. Granted, the Spectra has the side curtains and a nicer dash than the Elantra's, but the Elantra has a more adjustable driver's seat, plus the ABS/traction and moonroof, and is almost $1000 cheaper (taking off the spoiler), plus it has a $500 bigger general rebate than the Spectra. For Hyundai owners like me, it's a nearly $2000 difference between the two. That's not the kind of pricing that will entice me to look at a Spectra. I've driven the Spectra and it's not $2000 better than the Elantra, IMO. I actually prefer the driver's seat in the Elantra, and for $2000 I can look at a dash that is ergonomic if not as pretty.

doohickie

At this point, people who are window shopping will be drawn more to the Spectra than the Elantra simply because it has more recent sheet metal. I expect the actual sale price of the 2007 Elantra will be a little higher than the Spectra.

backy

I agree, the Elantra is due for a big bump in price in for the new model, as it will be bigger and have more standard equipment (ABS, side curtains, maybe XM radio). Personally I don't care how recent the sheet metal of a car is as long as I like how it looks. But some have to have the latest. If I were buying a car based on looks, it would not be the Spectra. I like the looks of the Mazda3 better. And like the way the Forenza looks, too--but I wouldn't buy one.

doohickie

Yep. I'm already trying to figure out what my next ride will be after the Elantra. The Mazda3 was high on my list, but a bit higher than the price I wanted to pay, so that would have to be a consideration. But since I'll be an empty nester by then, a Scion tC or Hyundai Tiburon wouldn't be bad either.

csandste

Although I'd prefer my local Kia dealer to his somewhat sleazy Hyundai counterpart I'm mystified by lots of Kia practices:

1. Changing cars in the middle of a model year. Having two different Spectras with the same designation was befuddling to say the least even if it did help with average economy. Apparently Kia is repeating this practice.

2. Before they canned Butterfield I heard him on a local radio call in show and he actually told a caller that his warranty would be voided if he got oil changes any place but the dealer. Ignorance of Magnuson-Moss is no excuse! Even for the CEO!

3. Decontenting the base models and charging more than Hyundai seems to run counter to any kind of marketing logic.

4. I've never seen a Rio5 and the four door sedan seems boring (although improved over the former platform)and overpriced relative to the Spectra. Splain-that!

iluvmysephia1

and Rio5 are equipped with the side airbags and side curtains and are nicely equipped overall, compared to the current Kia Spectra model. The sheet metal is new but the safety equipment is great and updated and IMO the $14,190 price for the Tropical Red '06 Kia Rio5 in 5-speed form at my local Pocatello, ID dealer is a very fair price as it stands. I wouldn't haggle much with them at this price.

You get way more than $14,190 worth of car. The Rio5 has a definite imported look. It has a cool swagger to it as well as an overall economy hatch look that you may think that you've seen from the Japanese makers before. But when you take a close look you'll apppreciate the fine Kia sculpters at work.

Nobody sculpts a car like South Korea's Kia Motors. Nobody. It's gonna be a fun hunt for a '06 Rio5. What's really cool is the Idaho locals all like big pick-em-up trucks and boring GM vehicles with a healthy mix of Accords and Camry's. All the same dodo-head rigs you see everywhere. The same one will no doubt be available when I search in earnest at the end of January '06. My local dealer by all rights should have more Rio sedans and Rio5's for '06 by then if the Tropical Red one sells. The RIo5 is the rig I'm focusing totally on, dudes.

allfiredup

Perhaps it's just me, but the Spectra sticker price seems reasonable. I went yesterday while I was out looking at other cars and saw several Spectra EXs with a sticker of $15,190 (including cruise control). There were two Spectra5s sitting next to them and they both had stickers over $18k, which was a little shocking.

The good news is that an EX can actually be had for around $13,500. If I don't end up with a Mazda3 or HHR, this could be my next car. There aren't many others out there at that kind of price (yet). I also think the new Rio looks fantastic, but it is kinda small for me. It doesn't help that 5-speed Rios with power package are non-existent in my area.

The Suzuki Forenza and Reno can also be had for the same money as a Spectra. The Suzukis are great looking, but the Kia feels like a better car. The Spectra also has significantly better acceleration and ride.

The Aveo isn't even an option (too small and ugly), but I've thought about the Nissan Sentra. A 1.8S (which includes power everything, cruise, A/C) stickers in the low $15k range, but with current incentives it could be had for about $12,600. It's certainly not my first or even second pick, but good to know there are a few options.

If you guys had $13-14k to spend on a new car right now, what would you pick?

backy

That is a hard question if it is right now, because many of the cars I am interested in aren't available yet, but will be soon: '06 Accent 4-door, Fit, Yaris, and Versa in particular. So if it had to be today and needed to be between $13-14k, I'd probably go for a '05 Elantra GLS 5-door automatic with Package 4 (ABS, CD, cruise) and mats, which with the $2000 in rebates available to me and a special $250 coupon I have (from a maintenance package I got thrown into my deal on my '04 Elantra GT), I should be able to get for $13k or even less. If I couldn't find a silver '05 GLS 5-door, then I could go with the '06 5-door or even 4-door automatic with the ABS/moonroof package, and those would be in the $13-14k range.

I wouldn't buy the Sentra, the main reason being it has a cramped rear seat. And I think the Elantra is a much nicer car for comparable money.

I might look at the Aerio sedan (I don't like the looks of the wagon). I wanted to drive one yesterday, but my local dealer had no sedans in stock. (I did drive a Reno, but IMO it's not as nice to drive as the Elantra GLS, although the interior is nice.) The rarity of the Aerio bothers me, though, as do some of the commments I saw on the Aerio Problems and Solutions discussion. But it looks like a nice package for the money, and ABS and side bags are standard.

Since I don't have to buy a car today, I will wait until at least March-April, when the Fit, Accent, and Yaris will all be available (and maybe the Versa), and also there is usually a $500 coupon offered by most local dealers in conjunction with my local auto show around that time--at least it has for the past few years. I used one in '04 on my Elantra GT.

pat

You should check out the Low End Sedans (Under $16k) discussion - enjoy!

doohickie

Well, things changed a little since October, but I bought an 05 Elantra GLS hatch then. At that point, the rebates were at about their lowest point but I went with the Elantra anyway and don't regret it. I ended up not getting the ABS; in fact, I got a GLS hatch with AT, cruise, spoiler and the bottom of the barrel AM/FM cassette and paid $13,900. I would expect you could do a $1000 better than that easily... provided you can find the car you want (I really wanted hatch & AT which was getting downright rare around here.)

If I were in the market now, I'd be looking at 05 Elantras or if I couldn't get my options, an 06. The Hyundai offers several advantages including several active owner forums and free (with free registration) access to their WebTech online technical data including parts and shop manuals, technical service bulletins, recalls, etc.

joe97

Ditto. I wouldn't expect the Civic to have ESC standard anytime soon. Did anyone really think Honda would offer standard ESC when the base trim (DX) doesn't even come equipped with a radio (standard or optional)

zoomzoomitis

If I had 13-14k to spend on a car right now I'd do what I did 3 months ago all over again - buy an Elantra GT hatch w/5spd & sunroof...in Tidal Wave blue of course. To date, having just crossed 9,000 on the odometer (yes, it's some daily commute and we do rack up miles...3 months, 9k miles, sheesh!!!)this car has not had one problem to speak of. Not a one. She's still rollin' to the tune of 35.2 mpg on the open road which given the gas prices of late is a good thing for those on a budget with kids (endless bleeding or so it seems..."I want, I want, I want...") I can't agree with doohickie and backy more. These cars are good cars for the money. Are they the best you can buy in this price range? Time will tell when I cross 150k on the ticker. The engine under the hood will get all the routine maintenance that is called for and then some. TLC washing by hand every two weeks or so. Garage kept, you better believe it. Now if I can just convince the wife we need to switch out the stock stereo. Horrible reception but dang, the thing is brand new so I'm being told I gotta wait. Lastly, absolutely love the versatility of the hatch. Wouldn't have it any other way. Happy New Year ya'll!

midnightcowboy

At only $19,990 the 2006 Honda Civic Si

backy

LOL! That's a good one, midnight!

Let's see...

* It actually stickers for over $20k (unless you know some way to avoid paying the destination charge)
* Not only does it sticker for over $20k, but the Edmunds TMV for the car is over $20k
* It's not a sedan, but a coupe
* If it were a sedan, it would not be anywhere close to "best" in many of the areas that lead people to buy an economy sedan, including people room, cargo room, fuel economy, and low price.

allfiredup

Perhaps best $20k sport compact would be more approriate.

backy

With the all-new Civic this year and an all-new Elantra and Sentra by the end of the year, there's a lot going on in this class. Doesn't anyone care about these cars? A lot of people buy them--the Civic and Corolla are two of the Top 10 sellers, and several others sell over 100,000 copies each year. Will the Elantra or Spectra have what it takes to unseat the current leader of this class--Civic or Mazda3, depending on your priorities? And an all-new Corolla should be along in less than a year too.

backy

I guess I answered my own question. It's dead, Jim--beam me up.

randydriver

Honda just loves their cars ......even if people are starting to have second thoughts.

backy

Lieutentant Uhura, tie in the Universal Translator on that last message. :confuse:

csandste

Backy- You may remember that I had (and loved) a 2001 Elantra. In looking at the latest Korean offerings, I'm a bit disturbed that they don't seem to be the great buys that they were six years ago. I'm sure that HyunKia can only fight the exchange rates so far.

I'm also struck by the fact that the Japanese are beginning to look a little more daring (love or hate the Civic digital dash, it's at least something different) while the Koreans seem to be going into the same kind of "certainly much more competant, but not necessarily more interesting than the previous generation" stall game of Japan a decade ago.

At least that's the way the first glimpse of the rather bloated Elantra looks to me. Hopefully the next gen Kia hatch on the same platform (will Hyundai get one eventually?) looks a bit more interesting than the Elantra (those wheels look really small)sedan.

BTW-- The 16 grand I paid for that Malibu Maxx in 2005 is beginning to look like a better and better deal. I'm averaging within 2 mpg of the Elantra. Easily gets 30-32 mpg on the highway with a lot more space and stuff for the money.

backy

Personally I consider $17k + T&L for a Sonata V6 with moonroof to be a great buy. One thing that has happened of late is that Hyundai seems to have shifted a lot of its marketing dollars to the Sonata, in an all-out assult on the mid-sized sedan market.

I really didn't like the '01 Elantra when I first saw it in photos or the first time I saw it in person. I was conditioned to the smooth, rounded lines of the '96-'00 Elantra. But then I started to appreciate the styling of the car, first the rear end then the overall look (which I liked better after the '04 refresh) and I really liked how the car drove compared to the gen 2 Elantra. So I am going to hold off on a final opinion of the '07 Elantra before I can see it in person and drive it. And we'll see how aggressive Hyundai gets on incentives on the new Elantra. Keep in mind that its main competitors--Civic, Corolla, Mazda3--are all $17k cars decently equipped, with a stick. So the '07 Elantra could still turn out to be a "great buy."

germancarfan1

"Honda just loves their cars ......even if people are starting to have second thoughts."

Apparently you missed all the latest news posts about how Honda is having trouble keeping up with demand for the new Civic. Nobody is having second thoughts. If anything, new sales figures suggest that consumers are more certain than ever that the 2006 Civic is a class leader.

sandman46

Just had this for a rental the last 4 days & was very impressed. Great seats & driving position, though the 6 cylinder was more power than I needed. What's the 4 cylinder Sonata like? Does it stil have the same creature comforts and what is the going price on the 4?

the Sandman

backy

A lot is available on the Sonata in the Sonata discussions in Town Hall--there's one specifically on pricing. It's really not in this group of cars. I only mentioned it because of the comment that great deals on Hyundais were hard to find.

P.S. Easy way to see differences between the Sonata I4 (GL and GLS) and V6 (GLS and LX) is to look at the features summary at hyundaiusa.com, or right here at Edmunds.com.

csandste

Sonata.

I think Hyundai is doing a lot more aggressive pricing than Kia so the Hyundai is probably the better deal for now. I saw a 6.5 Optima in red today (like the one that's popping up today on this page) and I think it's one of the best looking mid-sized cars out there. Too bad they didn't get the Sonata's V6. If I was buying one of those I'd stick with a 4.

backy

Yes, the Optima is a nice mid-sized sedan (would be better if all the safety features were available on the LX I4). But like the Sonata, it's not an economy car.

alpha01

I dont want to keep going down the wrong road, but if you spec out a Sonata GLS 4 and a GLS V6 with similar packages on carsdirect.com, you'll find that due to significantly greater rebates on the V6, that model is less than $100 more than a similarly equipped 4. This is at least the case in my zip.

(Those carsdirect prices exclude the SLEW of one-off type rebates that Hyundai typically may offer... such as loyalty, competitor, military, college grad, etc..)

~alpha

Karen_S

A national finance magazine is looking to interview consumers who are looking to purchase a or have already purchased the new subcompact cars because of the high cost of fuel. Please send an e-mail to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Saturday, June 10, 2006 by 5:00 PM PT/8:00 PM ET containing your daytime contact information and the vehicle you are considering.

---------------

A national finance magazine is looking to interview consumers who have traded-in their larger SUV for a smaller vehicle, because of the high cost of gas. Please send an e-mail to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Saturday, June 10, 2006 by 5:00 PM PT/8:00 PM ET containing your daytime contact information and car you traded-in and the current car you own.

Thanks,
Chintan Talati
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com

germancarfan1

New 2007 Jetta pricing: $16,490 MANUAL, $17,565 6-speed Tiptronic.

A drop of roughly $1400 from 2006! Some minor equipment changes, but mostly all the same goodies (ABS, traction, side airbags, 8-speaker stereo, etc.)

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/06/19/volkswagen-drops-price-on-u-s-jetta/

jpmccormac

The 2007 Rabbit will also have a price drop. There will also be some decontenting on the Rabbit and the Jetta.

backy

That should make the Jetta more price competitive with the Civics/Corollas/Mazda3's of this class. Smart move for VW. I wonder though what the content difference is if anything--the VE Jetta was already pretty low on content, although safety-wise it had good features.

germancarfan1

Low on content? LOL. Compared with what?

FEATURES STANDARD ON JETTA VE
Power everything
A/C
10-speaker cd sound system
8-way adjustable seats
Remote entry (w/ alarm)
Side curtain airbags
ABS
EBD (electronic brake distribution)
EDL (electronic differetial lock)
ASR Traction control
12 year corrosion warranty
HUGE trunk
Silver IIHS crash award
Optional 6-speed Tiptronic

jkobb

The only real problem I have with the Jettas has been that I perceive them as being overpriced with a poor record for reliability . I have always liked the looks of them .

doohickie

Oh, that's just because you're not a German Car Fan. If you were, you would love, love, love them in spite of their flaws and advocate them at every turn.

dc_driver

"Oh, that's just because you're not a German Car Fan. If you were, you would love, love, love them in spite of their flaws and advocate them at every turn."

I owned a 99 VW Jetta VR6. Nice car (exterior\interior, engine, fit and finish), horrible reliability and customer service. Out of the 33 months that I owned the vehicle it was probably in the shop for a good 3 months total (and I am not exaggerating). The fact that the 99's bumper to bumper warranty was 2yrs/24K miles and the fact that VW would not give me a loaner left me stranded too many times and ended up costing me money (no matter how much I complained to VW America). I ended up taking the Jetta to four different VW dealers to service my car and all of them were run horribly.

The sad thing is that this experience was similar to other friends, co workers, and neighbors who owned Jettas, Passats, and Golfs.

I am not saying that I would never own another VW, but they are going to have to improve their reliability and customer service first. Instead of lowering their prices VW should follow Hyundais lead and give a 10yr/100K warranty and a free loaner vehicle to rebuild confidence and loyalty. This would also force them to have better QA testing and to use better parts.

aphaltcommando

If you think that the 06 Elantra looks bloated, the 07 is 2 inches TALLER !!! Even with it's greater width, also 2 inches, the height is NOT going to help it on the skid pad. Brie

nj2pa2nc

my friend had a 2004 jetta that spent most of it's time at the service department- new motor, electrical rewiring and the last thing before he traded it for a 2005 toyota corolla was while he was driving parts of the transmission fell off. he loved the dealership, got free loaner cars. they sell both v.w. and toyota. he loves his toyota-no problems.My first car was a 1971 V.W. Super beetle, learned to drive stick on that car-alot of fun.it cost me $l,550 new.

aphaltcommando

I got my first car in 1968 when I was 18. My mother bought me a new Karman Ghia. I LOVED it. It was easy to work on, I used to watch my dad work on his Bettle before he died in June of 1965, and by the time that I got my Ghia, I would adjust the valve lash on the thing as per the owners manual. Come to think of it, his Beetle was what I learned to drive in.
Some day, I will find another 68 Ghia that is rust free, and totally restore it. THAT will be my "Cruise to the Dairy Queen on Sunday night" car. Brie

backy

Compared to what? For example, compared to a full-size Sonata GLS, the Jetta VE costs more MSRP and a lot more out the door, but has less power, worse fuel economy, much less interior room, shorter warranty (except on rust-through), smaller tires and wheels (larger ones are optional), and lacks convenience features such as rear armrest and cupholders and a power driver's seat. But the VE does have some plusses such as the 10-speaker stereo, EDL, and optional 6-speed automatic.

pat

This piece has been up for a week or two, but I was wondering what you folks think of it? I know it's classified as a hatch, but it does have four doors and anyway, since it's a competitor to these vehicles, we can certainly throw it into the mix.

Full Test: 2007 Nissan Versa

backy

We have discussed the Versa quite a bit in the Low-End Sedans discussion.

But now you are really confusing me. What is the difference between a Low-End car < $16 and an Economy Sedan between $16k-20k? I always figured the Versa to be a low-end car. The lowest-priced model in Nissan's NA lineup, and definitely starting well under $16k. In fact, it has to be pretty loaded to be over $16k. I figured the new Sentra to be in the Economy Sedans category, along with cars like the Civic, Corolla, Mazda3, Elantra, Focus, Cobalt, and Spectra. Can you straighten me out? Thanks.

pat

Yeah, it looks like it's on the line of either discussion - I went with the price of the one quoted in the review in picking this discussion because I didn't remember right off where it had been batted around a bit. Guess I coulda used the search ...

germancarfan1

"For example, compared to a full-size Sonata GLS, the Jetta VE costs more MSRP"

hmm...Wrong. Jetta VE 6-speed tiptronic: $18,975
2006 Hyundai Sonata GLS: $19,395
And the power driver's seat is NOT standard on the GLS.

But let's look at what is standard on the Jetta VE AUTO that's not Standard on the Sonata:

Driver Seat Height Adjustable
Passenger Seat Lumbar Support
Passenger Seat Height Adjustable
One touch power windows (only 1 on Sonata, 4 on Jetta VW)
Telescopic Steering Adjustment
Beverage Cooler
Rear Headrests (3 on Jetta, only 2 on Sonata)
Daytime Running Lights
Signal Mirrors (huge safety issue)
6-speed tiptronic (4-speed autos are so 1999)

The Sonata may have a bit more HP, but the Jetta has more torque at lower revs.

What else comes "standard" on the Jetta?

Decent resale value
impeccable interior
A tight, secure, german feel
Classy looks (my opinion ONLY)

wonderwall

lousy reliability and high maintenance costs...

nj2pa2nc

I agree.

doohickie

So, germancardude... are you on VW's payroll or what? I'm just curious.

dc_driver

"lousy reliability and high maintenance costs..."

Coming from a previous Jetta owner, you nailed it..