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Car_man
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The addition of navigation does not have any impact upon this car's money factor, but it does lower its residual value by 2%.
Car_man
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You definitely do not want to lease this car for 39 months. Honda's special lease program for it is only available for up to 36 months. The 39 month money factor jumps to a much less attractive .00285.
When negotiating your lease on this car, make sure to take the $1,500 dealer cash that is currently available on it into account.
Good luck in your negotiations and make sure to stop back and let us all know how everything turns out.
Car_man
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You never mentioned how long you want to lease for or what mileage allowance you need, so I had to make some assumptions. Let me know if you want something different.
When negotiating your lease on this car, make sure to take the $1,500 dealer cash that is currently available on it into account.
Car_man
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You can determine approximately how much it will cost you to get out of your current lease by comparing its purchase price to its value on the open market at this time. You should place a call to the bank that you are leasing your vehicle through to find out its exact price. Once you know exactly how much money it is going to cost you to buy your leased vehicle you need to compare it to its current value on the open market. You can find out approximately what your vehicle is worth by looking up its Edmunds.com True Market Value in the Used Vehicle Pricing section of this site. You also may want to stop by the following discussion: "Real-World Trade-In Values". Don't forget to check to see if you are still on the hook for your remaining lease payments. The difference between your leased vehicle's current value and how much it will cost you to buy it plus any remaining lease payments that you are obligated to pay will equal the cost of getting out of your lease right now. You may find that you are better off waiting until you are closer to the scheduled end of your lease to get another new vehicle.
Car_man
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36/month 12k
MSRP 27075
Selling Price: 23145 (Invoice minus 1500 market support)
$392/month, $0 down sign and drive. (all fees incl. first payment are in lease)
35 payments of $392
They bumped it up from $382 because of being preferred not ultra preferred, which doesnt make sense but they said nothing they can do its up to honda.
What do you think?
I was not on the hook for payments, they look for the pay off versus the trade in value. As long as your pay off is lower than the value of the car, than your fine. I was not told to buy my car out first then trade it. Ever It could take forever to do that. It was quite simple, of course this was a bit before the economy went bad.
I am certainly not going to buy out my 08 GM car lease to get out. No way, I am so lucky I have a lease and not a massive loan on a car that is a giant paper weight in terms of value. Honda, I might think about doing so.
I see all of this happening more so on GM cars, and less true on Honda or Acura cars. Honda seems to be quite flexible. Though you will have a tougher time now.
This is just from my experience, it went smooth. Too each their own, remember don't over complicate things, dealers love to do that enough already.
I am hoping Car_Man or anyone really can let me know if this info I found from searching on here (back from July postings) is still accurate as of Aug 27th for the Accord EX-L:
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Honda Finance's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Accord EX-L 4-cylinder Sedan with 12,000 miles per year are .00171 and 55%, respectively. There is also $1,500 dealer cash that is currently available on it.
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If any of it is incorrect can you please update it? Thanks so much - I am going in this week to negotiate and trying to get my facts straight
THANK YOU!
Spoke with a "lie-nance" manager and he said that I should consider staying at least under 60K miles and have a decent down payment ... is this true? Also, my general credit is not in the best of shape, but my car credit is pretty darn good and we make more than enough. What will our chances be if we meet the above criteria from a mileage and down pmt standpoint to get the auto loan for the 010 Accord EXL w/ navi from Honda seeing that we would have completed a lease? Also, something else we're considering and would like your thoughts ... What are your thoughts on taking the lease to the end, paying the wear & tear, mileage fees (which we expect to be somewhere around $3500) and bying a new vehicle straight out with putting up a down payment and no trade?
I think you hit the nail on the head when you stated what shape your credit is in. That is the primary factor that dictates what kind of terms you qualify for. "Car credit" is only a component of your overall credit picture and will not override the rest of your credit history. As far as your chances for the '10 Accord, my guess it will depend on your credit history then and what lenders are willing to do at that time. The alternative you suggested sounds like a good plan too. While no one likes to pay over-mileage fees and wear & tear, you did have use of the car while driving those extra miles, so it's not like you're paying for nothing. If you had known and could have structured this lease from the outset with the additional miles you put on the car, your payment would have been higher anyway, so it's pay as-you-go or pay at the end. I think the very best thing you can do is keep your credit squeeky clean going forward. The farther away in time from the last ding on your credit, the better your scores will get. Good luck.
Thanks
would you happen to have the lease figures for 2010 Honda Accords? Specifically, a 2010 Honda Accord EX-L, money factor and residual values for 10k miles per year and 12k miles per year.
Thanks,
burgermac
Also, make sure you comment upon all of this within your three credit agency reports.
After 3days of negotiations, this is what he offered me
199$ a month
12K a year mil
36month
Rental Assistance
1,500 Interior/Exterior damage protection
2995$ at signing (includes, PDI, DMV, Bank Fees, Tax..etc)
Is this a good deal? Im in NY - Queens, and this guy for the past 2 days is playing numbers with me. Switching different numbers around and coming up with the same 3k down. I called Honda Dealership in BayRidge-Brooklyn and they said they can do better...but didnt say how much better.
What do you guys say? This is my first time leasing and i hear people putting Zero down and driving away....
Need help!!! What do you lease your Honda Accord 2009 for? If anyone in NY city or NJ has a good dealer or gotten a better deal...please let me know
If you are that hard on your car, than you should not lease the car.
Break down that amount over the life of the lease and its a hefty fee. Especially on a Honda. They already hold their value fairly well, as long as your not out right hard on your cars, then you are fine!
Yes, start with $0 down! then work on the sale price, then later if you want to put any funds down, then do it. No dealer is going to give you their best deal at the first quote. Never! Most of the time, you'll just laugh, because its silly.
Just be careful.
Please let us know your sale price. Get rid of the protection, you'll be fine.
Bayridge Honda gave me that quote but eventually got an ACCORD 4DR 4CYL EX-L from Plaza AutoMall. $600 sign off, $352/mo 36 months.
The $1500 wear and tear allowance is standard with American Honda Finance accdg to my agent.
Many of the small items were either not indicated nor charged for on his inspections sheets. There is a self inspection reference card that AHF gives you that outlines potential excessive wear and use one can use as a guide. Lastly, there is the standard $1,500. allowance.
Today i picked up our Leased Honda....
In the end...here is what i got from a 3rd party dealer
$227.90 a month
12K miles
36months
$1960 down (tax, bank fees, NY plates, etc)
With insurance...comes out to 350 a month....
Final thought. After a week of negotiations with different vendors, dealers, insurance companies, etc, im pretty happy with the outcome. Its an upgrade from out 1999 civic in hp and in room, especially with a 6month old baby.
Thanx guys for your help
Car Man, I would love to know your as well as the perspective of others about the following:
I know the dealer needs to have a selling price, residual and money factor to plug all into the computer and come up with a lease price.
But, does the money factor really change from car to car? Said differently, when Honda goes to the capital markets to borrow millions of dollars for financing their vehicles, its not like they get one pool of money for an Accord at one interest rate and another for a Pilot. So in essence, the money factor is a function of supply and demand for a vehicle and is arbitrary in nature.
Second, lets say I get an idea of the vehicle I like and negotiate a lease based on $0 cap reduction and $0 bank fee. I go back and forth a bit with the dealer and they come back with a price of $425/mo. If I throw out $390 and they give me a line about the price of the car, residual, money factor etc and I just respond with an "I don't care about those things, this is what I will pay". Assuming that they can make money at $390 is it not mere details as to what #s they plug into their computer? Said differently, am I not letting the dealer determine the parameters of the negotiation by telling me what the MF and cost of the car is?
Just curious if anyone has ever tried this route?
Newer to the Philly market so if anyone can suggest Honda / Acura dealers that are good, or those to stay away from it would be appreciated.
The problem with this scenario is if you don't know what all the numbers should be, then how do you know if you got a good deal? By knowing all the number associated with the deal (msrp, invoice, rebate or marketing support, term, fees, TT&L incl?, money factor or equivalent rate, residual value, etc) then you can make an assessment on the kind of deal you're getting. What if, by knowing all the above, you can make a better deal than your $390/mo offer? Wouldn't it be worth it doing a bit of research?
I am certainly no expert on auto purchasing or selling but it seems to me that if the dealer gets to set all the points of negotiation then they get the upper hand.
You have ONE point of negotiation: selling price. In this regard leasing is exactly the same as buying. Once the selling price is agreed upon, the rest of the numbers are automatically (and easily) derived by filling in the MF and residual on a spreadsheet.
In the case of leasing a Honda, MF and residual are set by AHFC. Bank fee (usually called acquisition fee) is set by AHFC. (BMW dealers are notorious for marking up BMW Financial Service's money factor. To the best of my knowledge AHFC does not allow this.) You can pay the acquisition fee upfront or roll it into the lease; in many cases you can roll the first month's payment into the lease, and perhaps even tags, for a true "no money down" deal. But if you do, of course, you're paying interest on these items over the term of the lease. Pay now or pay later.
As an "equalizer" when I'm looking at various lease deals I do all my figuring by taking the selling price plus acquisition fee and treating that as the net cap cost. (First month's payment and tags I'll pay at delivery.) I recommend this approach. It keeps things simple and let's you easily compare one lease to another.
There's simply no way to determine if a lease deal is any good without knowing the MF and residual. Because if you don't know those - and you're just looking at a monthly payment - you have NO way to know what selling price is hidden in the deal.
The best way to have the upper hand when negotiating a lease is to understand "money factor" and "residual" and to know what they are on the car you want to lease. This way, you'll focus on the sellling price in your negotiations, won't get tripped up by a blizzard of numbers from the dealer regarding your monthly payment, and - who knows - you may even earn a bit of respect from your dealer, since most of his customers are like lambs to the slaughter when it comes to negotiating a lease deal.
To me you sound extremely well informed on this - are you certain that the dealer cannot play with the MF? In the end, this would mean less profit for them but as franchisees, you are saying they have strict guidelines about this?
Thank again for your time.
It's been a couple of years since I've leased from AHFC - and others such as CarMan will know for sure - but unless something has changed, a Honda dealer cannot play with the MF set by AHFC. There would be a variation if the buyer's credit score doesn't qualify him/her for the best rate, of course, But this is still set by AHFC, not the dealer.
In some circumstances a dealer might try to put a buyer into a lease written by someone other than AHFC - in which all bets are off and anything can happen.
Some of this may be redundant but I'll throw it out there anyway . . .
I like to have at hand this basic lease formula (which I can figure with a simple calculator or even pencil and paper in the heat of battle if necessary):
(Cap Cost – Residual Value) / Term (in months) = Depreciation
(Cap Cost + Residual Value) X Money Factor = Interest
Depreciation + Interest = Base Monthly Payment (add sales tax to get total monthly payment)
I always include the lease acquisition fee in the cap cost - there's no reason to pay this upfront on a low-rate lease. (For an AHFC lease it's $595.) So "Cap Cost" in the formula above is the selling price (incl. destination) plus the acquisition fee.
On a low-rate lease there's no reason to make an upfront down payment or "cap cost reduction". So upfront $$ are tags, title, dealer document fees - at a good dealer these are modest and legitimate, not inflated to put more profit in the deal - and first month's payment.
This is what my numbers looked like
$375/month 12K/yr 36 months deal. bank/DMV/plates/tax/first month up front which was around 2K. They also payed the last payment on my old Lease.
Is this a reasonable deal. I was negotiating with many dealerships in the NY area and this was the best offer I got. The initial offer I got was 570/month, then 470, then 415, then 395, then 378, then 375. Just goes to show that you have to keep negotiating. Let me know what you guys think. or if anyone else was shopping for teh same car, what kind of numbers have you been quoted.
Car_man
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Car_man
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Car_man
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You won't be able to negotiate a lease that doesn't have an acquisition fee. Honda Finance charges a $595 fee on every vehicle that it leases and independent dealers do not have the authority to waive this charge. Rather than paying it at lease signing, you can however choose to have it added to your vehicle's capitalized cost to bake it into your monthly payment if you want.
To me, the easiest way to make sure that you are getting the best possible deal on a lease is to look up the dealer invoice price on the model that you want and subtract any available cash incentives from that. Then add a couple hundred dollars to this price and have the dealer calculate your monthly payment using the buy rate lease money factor. This is a pretty simple method and it works very well.
Car_man
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I am not sure how much better you could have done, What was your "sale" price?
Why is it that Honda sales think they are selling so sorta elite car? Don't get me wrong I am a honda guy myself, but lets get real here. $570 on this car? HAHA!
I think you did okay, but its your sale price that really plays a role in that. Always start off with $0 down! Dealers love to confuse you, like covering up that last payment into your new lease deal.
Now before anyone rants that 08 is different than 09, here is how they compare; My 08's msrp was $28,730 incl dest. The 09's msrp is $29,415 for a difference of $685. Tony747 paid $2,000 out of pocket, which if he had rolled that in, it would account for additional $74/mo, including the msrp difference but not incl interest charges. With the higher 09 msrp and if all $ were rolled, the equivalent payment would have been at least $433, not incl interest charges. So the difference between my 08’s $359 all-rolled-in payment to 09’s $433 all-rolled-in payment is more than the msrp’s difference of $685. I also didn’t have the advantage of any dealer marketing cash support from Honda, so we can speculate the dealer didn’t discount the car as much, or the money factor was higher, or combination of both.
So, for September we have a higher money factor, 2% lower residuals, an extra $595 in the acquisition fee and the same incentive compared to last month. It seems like a lose, lose, lose situation to try to lease an '09 now.
Man, I really wish that I hadn't waited so long and just pulled the trigger back in July (before CFC) when the deals were still good.
They should've at least increased the incentives on the leftover 2009 models. $1500 ($750 for the V6) is pretty weak. It doesn't seem like they're even trying to get rid of the leftovers. My local dealer keeps getting in more and more 2010s, yet they only sell a couple 2009s a week, of which they have almost 70 on the lot. They should be giving them away sooner or later.
I hope they start rolling out the incentives on the 2010s before long.
I won't be making any decisions for another month or two so perhaps if the post cash for clunkers euphoria wears off a bit they will gain some flexibility.
So, do I do this now or wait until Oct or Nov for better lease incentives. Also, I drive around 20,000 miles per year. Does HFS offer 20K leases or is there a way to pay for miles up front? I find the mileage penalty and depreciation if purchased seem to even things out on a lease vs. purchase. Lastly, is it true that the extra mileage cost is .15 cents per mile for cars with MSRP under $30,000 and .20 cents for those above $30,000 MSRP. If so, this would be a good reason to get the EX-LV6 without the NAV.
CarMan - do you have the current Accord EX-L V lease numbers for 15,000 miles and 36 months and for 20K if they have that?
Thanks,
While it's difficult to predict exactly when Honda will roll out incentives on the 2010 Accord, I don't think that I'm going out on a limb by saying that it will likely be before the end of the year.
Car_man
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Honda Finance's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Accord EX-L V6 Sedan with 15,000 miles per year are .00208 and 51% without navigation and .00208 and 49% with it.
Car_man
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It totally confused me, and I did not have time to ask him, as I had to get home to get my children from the bus, but what are the deals? Can you negotiate a lease? I asked the salesman and he basically said no, the terms are set by Honda. I did not believe this, so I came to Edmunds because in 2006 you all helped me so much on the purchase of my Honda O.
So I am just wondering if you can negotiate a lease term?
If so, where do you start?
You can negotiate the selling price of a vehicle in a lease, but you can't negotiate the terms of the lease agreement such as money factor, residual, and fees. The only fees you should be looking at in a lease are the AHFC acquisition fee, the dealer doc fee, taxes, possible tire fee (I say possible because I don't have to pay one in my area but it exists in many areas), DMV fees, and any dealer-installed options on the vehicle.
Honda's current lease deal on a 2009 Accord LX with automatic transmission is $209 a month with $2799 due at signing. That $2799 includes the first month's payment of $209, the $595 acquisition fee (which is the bank fee, so there shouldn't be a bank fee in addition to this), and a $1995 down payment. Your dealer was right in that the $2799 amount doesn't include some fees, such as the dealer doc fee, DMV fee, taxes on the down payment and fees (in NC, where I live, the tax is 3%), and the like. However, what your dealer didn't tell you is that you don't have to put all of that money down up front and that the price of the car is still negotiable. In that lease deal, the Accord LX has a selling price (aka gross cap cost, before the cap cost reduction is applied) of $19,606. You should be able to knock another $1000 off of that, based on what others here have been paying for that model as of late.
So when you negotiate the price of the car down from $19,600 to $18,600, the deal gets better: $179 a month with $2769 due at signing. And if you want to lower your down payment to nothing but the first month's payment and the misc. fees not included in the original down payment amount, the monthly payment becomes $256.50 (plus tax) with just the first month's payment, registration, dealer doc fee, etc. due at signing. In my area, that would come to $264.20 a month with a bit less than $750 due at signing ($399 doc fee, first month's payment, registration, and tax) and the acquisition fee rolled into the cost of the lease.
In the end, your monthly payment boils down to the selling price of the car and how much money you put down (less money down is better). Just know that Honda's lease deal isn't set in stone and you can in fact do better. It even states in the fine print on Honda's site that the cap cost reduction of $1995 may be paid by the suggested dealer contribution, which I think means that there's more flexibility in the selling price of the car than we may know.
I hope this helps...
How would this affect the payment?
FEATURED SPECIAL LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2009 Accord Sedan LX Automatic Transmission (Model CP2639EW) for $199.00 per month for 36 months with a $2,000.00 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the AHFC Super Preferred credit tier. Other rates/tiers are available under this offer. $2,199.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment with no security deposit and capitalized cost reduction; total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Not all buyers may qualify.
Subject to limited availability. 10/1/2009 through 11/2/2009, to approved lessees by American Honda Finance Corp. Closed end lease for 2009 Accord Sedan LX Automatic Transmission vehicles (Model CP2639EW), for well qualified lessees. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $22,415.00 (includes destination) less the capitalized cost reduction (which may be paid by the suggested dealer contribution) resulting in actual net capitalized cost $18,038.23. Net capitalized cost includes $595 acquisition fee. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Taxes, license, title fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $7,164.00. Option to purchase at lease end $12,328.25. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mi. over 12,000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mi. over 12,000 miles/year. See dealer for complete details.
They were really trying hard to get me into a 2010 instead of a 2009 (I think part of that is because the car with the color combo that I wanted was at another dealership and that wasn't going to benefit them in their effort to clear out their inventory of 2009s), and they were trying even harder to convince me that the terms for the 2010 model were much better than the 2009. Yeah, the 2010's residual value is 7% higher, but the selling price is higher too, over 2 grand higher. So it ends up being close, with the 2010 costing just a tad more each month.
They kept pushing the 2010, but I don't like some of the changes they've made this year. On the EX models with cloth, the door panel inserts are now hard plastic instead of vinyl, and they changed the seatbacks (where the pockets on the backside of the seats are) from cloth to shiny black plastic. Those two things were enough to make me wince the first time I sat in the 2010 as they really stand out and look cheap. They also got rid of the engine cover on the 4-cylinder (why? to save $5?). Oh, but they did add a liner to the trunklid and a pair of adjustable rear seat vents that, oddly enough, seem to be aimed towards the floor. The only thing about the 2010 that I found to be superior was the driver's seat, and that might actually be a big plus for many out there. It doesn't look any different, but I swear that it's more comfortable. In the 2009 I test-drove, the headrest was poking into the back of my head no matter how I adjusted it. On the 2010, it wasn't. Honda must've tweaked the seat design ever so slightly to address some of the complaints about seat comfort in the 2008 and 2009 models.
For a 2010 EX I4 auto sedan with cloth, they quoted me a payment of $275/month with $875 total out of pocket. MSRP was $26126 (had a few bs add-ons), residual was $15711 (62% of the original msrp of $25,340), and the selling price was $22987. The selling price is a little under invoice, but I know I can do better if I wait a few months when they start rolling out incentives on the 2010's. The money factor may go up in the coming months, but the price of the car is sure to drop and will hopefully outweigh the increase in the money factor. The manager of the dealership (yes, the head honcho himself) swore up and down that even if I waited, the price wouldn't get any lower and would in fact, go up. I said we'll see and I walked out :P
As for your payment, cmhonda, it will be much lower as the money factor has dropped significantly from .00208 to .00133. The marketing support on the 2009 is still the same at $1500.
Without negotiation, your payment would be $257.21 plus tax with first month's payment, doc fee, registration, and zero cap cost reduction due at signing. That's with a selling price of $19443 as it is in the current lease terms. Once again, if you negotiate the price down to about $18,600, your payment would become $232.68 plus tax with the same fees due at signing. For me, in my area with 3% tax, this would equate to a payment of $239.66 with $710 total due at signing (first month's payment + $399 doc fee + $69 registration fee + tax on payment and registration).
You may be able to do even better than that, depending on the selling price you negotiate. But it's a good thing you waited until this month to lease. I'd still suggest waiting until a little later this month and make them sweat on the remaining 2009s for as long as you can. They're not selling that well at all, at least at my local dealer.
First, they also pushed me into a 2010, fine, I really wanted that anyways, but I did not have any numbers printed out for a 2010, so I was kind of helpless.
Then they did not have a silver LX on their lot, but they had a silver LX-P so remember all the figures are for the LX-P.
Then, he asked me what I wanted my payment to be? Um what? I do not negotiate up from the payment, lets negotiate down from the price, ok? NOPE, they would not do it, said the price is set.
So he comes back out, with a payment of 218.51+tax (234.90 after tax) monthly and 3600 down!!! Ok so what does this 3600 include? Seriously it took them 20 mins back and forth to agree to tell me, the "finance manager" actually said, why does she want to know that, I got her payments where she wants them.
UM WHAT? I can hear you!!! lol
And then they bring me a printout, showing the MSRP of 22565 and then the 62% residual, and then the initial cap cost of 21823, with the cash cap reduction of 2199.43 and my down as 3410. Ok, 20 minutes ago you said 3600, so where did the extra 190 dollars go? Did it just vanish into thin air? oh wait, you can not make up any more fee's to pull out your butt, so 3410 is as much as you can get?
But it still does not show what the 3410 is for, it just says 3410. So I again ask, show me what it goes to, all the time I'm telling them, look I know there are fee's I just want to know what they are, it is my money and I like to know what it goes for.
Finally, again, 20 minutes later, no joke, he comes out with a hand written paper, showing the follow fees
License 175
Tire fee 5
Lemon Law 2
Battery 1.50
Doc 499
Rental Surcharge (this was later explained to me as gap coverage) 60
CVR fee (later explained to me as the electronic filing fee for my tag) 24
Cap reduction tax 164.96
Tax of initial fee 44.21
Total 1210.57
PLUS the cap reduction of 2199.43
Give the total 3410.00
I left there so fast. And at first they were going to let me drive the car to my house to show my husband who has yet to see the car, sick kids, I'm the better negotiator, he gets to stay home...... but when I started asking questions, they changed their minds I guess because it was not even offered to me.
So I called 3 other dealers within an hour and a half and of course they can all do better.
I'm so confused.