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Just saw your post with June Tier 1 numbers for EXL with NO rev, NO res. Thanks.
What about:
EXL WITH NAV and RES?
EXL WITH NAV, NO RES?
EXL NO NAV, YES RES?
Also, best site to check for Dealer Invoice numbers?
THANKS,
FixThis
Also had a offer of $380 same details above except an EX. $44 per month cheaper than EX-L, is the EX-L worth this much with extra features?
Thank you!
Honda Finance's June buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2010 Odyssey EX-L with Nav, RES, and 15,000 miles per year are .00117 and 51%, respectively.
The money factor is the same for all Odyssey trim levels. The residual for a lease of an EX-L with RES but no Nav is 52%. I'm not sure if you can get this van with Navigation and without the RES.
Car_man
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Car_man
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I'm looking at 12K year.
Being quoted 53% resid on Touring - sound right?
On this, I've been quoted 35,999 + 710 fees for price? sounds close, but maybe a bit more room? However, when rolling all fees, taxes, etc into payment, they are quoting 605.05 (I'm in San Francisco). Seems high from my calculation??
Resid on exl with res (no nav) 12K?
We are also considering this option, and then adding on parking sensors aftermarket option.
THANKS for all your help.
The money factor was .00117 and the residual was 53%...
FYI, I asked a friend who is a dealer about the sign and drive deal. Although the mf was lower for that one, the monthly payment came out higher, since they basically added your first months payment to the capcost - it's not as if they gave it away for free. So in the end, it would be cheaper to have paid the first month at signing, even with the slightly higher mf. This is old news, but may be usefull for future references when these deals come around again.
I'll jump in on this one. Your friend's claim may be inaccurate. I structured a lease that was approved by the dealer in April when they had 0-0-0 for a Honda Accord LX and I didn't pay the first payment upfront nor was it capped in the lease. Here's what I submitted to the dealer in April...
Retail Pricing Information
Base MSRP 2010Honda Accord LX Automatic 21,855.00
Polished Metal Metallic 0.00
Destination Charge . . .. 710.00
MSRP .. . ... 22,565.00
Selling Price
Agreed Upon Value . 18,891.92
Amounts Financed (Capitalized)
AHFC Acquisition Fee 595.00
Documentation Fee . 250.00
Medina Sales Tax @ 6.50% x 36 x 214.42 .. 501.74
Capitalized Costs
Gross Capitalized Cost . 20,238.66
Capitalized Cost Reduction . 0.00
Adjusted Capitalized Cost 20,238.66
Residual Data
Residual Factor .. . . 0.60
Residual Value (Residual Factor × MSRP) . 13,539.00
Cost of Money/Term
Money Factor ... . . 0.00127
Term (months) .. . 36
Lease Payment Itemization
Monthly Lease Payment . . . 229.00
Taxable Monthly Lease Payment .. .. 214.42
Estimated Charges Payable at Lease Origination
License, Title, Registration Fees (estimated) .. 80.00
Amount Due at Lease Signing .. .. 80.00
Fund Provider: AHFC
GAP Coverage: Included
Annual Mileage Allowance: 12k
Disposition Fee: None
Excess Mileage Charge: $0.15 per mile
If you read April's 0-0-0 national promo ad for the Accord, the example clearly shows that the customer does not make the first payment. I don't know whether it's absorbed by the dealer or Honda. HOWEVER, in defense of your friend, the SELL PRICE that I established may have been high enough to capture the first payment. And so, the dealer simply said, OKAY! I'll argue that the sell price is the agreed value of the vehicle and nothing more. Note that I did pay tax on the first payment, but, I did not pay the first payment. Also, note that I'm assuming that the 0-0-0 terms for the Accord were identical to that established for the Odyssey.
John
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34185 MSRP
29545 Selling price
31445 Cap Cost (bank and NY tax included)
.00117 MF
55% residual
$410 monthly payment
First month and DMV at signing
This was basically the price I was able to get after calling tons of dealers - and pretty close to dealer cost. I'm happy, but let me know if you got better pricing!
I have a 2007 Odyssey that is coming off lease, and I'm looking to lease another one. It's due back in the beginning of August, so I'm wondering if I should 1. wait until the last minute, 2. extend the lease, or just 3. lease a new one now, and hope they can eat the final couple of payments.
Anyone have any advice?
Any place can do it.
You can certainly offer to pay $14K as it doesn't hurt to ask. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. If you haven't already done so, you may want to have the vehicle professionally appraised and ask what it would fetch on the auction block and, then, be governed accordingly.
More than likely, the market value is less than $19,000 as you've indicated. However, I doubt AHFC will accept your offer of $14K as it would set a precedent, which could open the flood gates from their perspective. It's probably their policy not to negotiate lease end buyouts, but, that's always subject to change as they can do anything they want.
By asking AHFC to knock off $5,000, because the value has been diminished due to an accident that's your responsibility, you're effectively penalizing them $5,000. I assume that there is a police report and that your insurance paid for the damage subject to any deductible. However, they may have a claim as well. And so, you may want to read your lease agreement to see if there are any conditions/stipulations regarding physical damage if you haven't already done so.
I'm not sure what you mean by "clean inspection". Who did the inspection? Was it an authorized Honda inspection facility? Did they ask if the vehicle was involved in an accident? If they haven't already asked, I'm fairly certain that they'll want to know whether or not the vehicle has ever been damaged due to an accident, vandalism, or by an act of God upon return. And, then, they'll say: please sign here.
I'm not trying to scare you. I'm only trying to anticipate what could happen. Anyway, that's my $0.02 for whatever it's worth.
Good luck!
John
They delivered it to my house on Saturday for no additional charge and even topped off the tank when they got here. You can track down the name of their Internet Sales Manager on their website. I'd highly recommend giving them a call.
MSRP: $32285
Selling Price: $27356
Aquisition: $595
Monthly Payment: $352.11 Including Tax (6%)
OUt of Pocket: $1000
Money Factor: 0.00117
Residual Value: 57%
I hope it can help anyone who wnts to lease deal soon or later.
Car_man
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Do you have the current money factor and residual value percentage for the 2010 Odyssey EX-L w/ Navigation and DVD Rear Entertainment System....36 months, 12K miles/yr?
Thank you!
One local dealer in Charlotte NC is running a promotion with no money down + 500 doc fee.
But I want EX-L..
What would be a good offer for that?
Thank you.
From the official Honda website -
2010 Odyssey Featured Special Lease
Offer valid from 7/7/2010 through 9/7/2010
$249.00 per month for 36 months. $1,999.00 total due at signing.
Includes down payment with no security deposit. Excludes taxes, titles and fees. For well-qualified buyers.
FEATURED SPECIAL LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2010 Odyssey 5 Speed Automatic LX (Model RL3H2AEW) for $249.00 per month for 36 months with a $1,750.00 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the HFS Super Preferred or Preferred credit tier. Other rates/tiers are available under this offer. $1,999.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment and capitalized cost reduction with no security deposit; total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Not all buyers may qualify.
Show Details
Subject to limited availability. From July 7, 2010 through September 7, 2010, to approved lessees by Honda Financial Serivces. Closed end lease for 2010 Odyssey 5 Speed Automatic LX vehicles (Model RL3H2AEW), for well qualified lessees. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $27,585.00 (includes destination) less the capitalized cost reduction (which may be paid by the suggested dealer contribution) resulting in actual net capitalized cost $23,310.27. Net capitalized cost includes $595 acquisition fee. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Taxes, license, title fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $8,964.00. Option to purchase at lease end $15,723.45. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mi. over 12000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mi. over 12000 miles/year. See dealer for complete details.
That makes lease payment effectively (299 + 1999/36) = 354.5 per month.
And that to for a basic LX trim.
Need to pay more for other trims.
If it were 0 down.. would have been better deal.
For example: at a local dealership, it was available for 0 down for 3 days until Aug,1, 2010.
Hope this helps.
The two most important numbers in any lease transaction are the selling price and the cost of money (money factor) because BOTH drive the monthly payment. Let's analyze this Ad for the 2010 Odyssey (Post #2114) ...
First, let's do some basic calculations...
F = (PN - C + R) / (N(C + R))
F = money factor = ?
P= base payment = 249.00
N = Term = 36
C = Net Cap Cost = 23,310.27
R = Residual Value = 15,723.45 suggesting that the residual factor is 57%
(15,723.45 / 27,585.00)
Therefore, the money factor, F, is...
F = (249 x 36 - 23,310.27 + 15,723.45) / (36 x (23,310.27 + 15,723.45))
= 0.00098 or about 2.35% (24 x 0.00098) ... not bad!
Let's summarize what we have so far...
MSRP....................................................... 27,585.00
Sell Price (S)............................................. ?
Amounts Financed (A) (i.e., capitalized)
AHFC Acq Fee.......................................... 595.00
Gross Captialized Cost (G).............................. ?
Capitalized Cost Reduction (D)........................ 1,750.00
Net (adjusted) Capitalized Cost (C).................. 23,310.27
Money Factor (F).......................................... 0.00098
Term (N)...................................................... 36
Residual Factor........................................... 57%
Residual Value............................................ 15,723.45
Monthly Base Payment (P)........................... 249.00
Observe that the sell price and gross cap are missing. We can easily find them by recognizing that...
G = C + D
S = G - A
G = 23,310.27 + 1,750.00 = 25,060.27
S = 25,060.27 - 595.00 = 24,465.27
We know that the 0.00098 is the base rate or buy rate and is the lowest rate offered provided you have excellent credit.
So, the only remaining question is the 24,465.27 sell price. Can you do better? If you check edmunds invoice price and incentives for this vehicle, you'll discover that the invoice is 25,076 and that there is a $1,500 cash to dealer incentive. Subtracting this cash incentive from invoice, I get 23,576. So, let's make it a nice round 23,505.25 to start negotiations with a ceiling of, say, 24,000. So, yes, it's a very good bet that you can do much better depending upon the region in which you reside (demand/supply, economic conditions, etc.).
Now, I'm ready to create a one-page lease proposal. It must be on my letterhead and be a very professional looking document. All calculations must be spot on and contain no errors of any kind. I'll include all pertinent data such as a description of the vehicle, MSRP, sell price, amounts capitalized (e.g., taxes, acq. fee, etc), cap reductions (e.g., trade, cash down, etc), money factor, residual factor, residual value, term, taxable payment, lease payment, amounts due up front (itemized), contract provisions (gap insurance, excess mileage charge, applicable disposition/purchase option fees). All dollar amounts are calculated, not by the dealer, but by you using a program that you created or a program from a trusted source.
A professional looking one-page lease proposal speaks volumes about you... it sends the message that you know and understand leasing. That quickly serves notice to the dealer, and so; they're not as inclined to play games.
Because I'm in Ohio, my one-page proposal might look like this...
2010 Odyssey 5 Speed Automatic LX (Model RL3H2AEW)
MSRP....................................................... 27,585.00
Sell Price (S)............................................. 23,505.25 (Agreed Upon Value)
Amounts Financed (A) (i.e., capitalized)
AHFC Acq Fee.......................................... 595.00
Ohio Sales Tax @6.50% x 36 x 271.72 ...... 635.82
Gross Captialized Cost (G).............................. 24,736.07
Capitalized Cost Reduction (D)........................ 0.00
Net (adjusted) Capitalized Cost (C).................. 24,736.07
Money Factor (F).......................................... 0.00098
Term (N)...................................................... 36
Residual Factor........................................... 57%
Residual Value............................................ 15,723.45
Monthly Taxable Payment............................ 271.72
Monthly Lease Payment (P) (Inclu. Tax)............. 290.00
Amounts Due at Lease Signing
1st Payment................................................ 290.00
Dealer Doc Fee........................................... 250.00
DMV Fees.................................................. 75.00
TOTAL DUE............................................... 615.00
Fund Provider: AHFC
Annual Mileage: 12K
Excess Mileage Charge: $0.15
Disposition Fee: NONE
GAP Coverage: YES
NOTE: P = F x (C + R) + (C - R)/N
So, instead of paying 1,999 upfront and 249 per month plus tax, I'll pay 615 upfront plus 290 per month including tax.
Finally, Fax/email the proposal to the dealer and negotiate via phone/email from the comfort of your home/office with your laptop excel spreadsheet lease program fired up and ready to rumble! The only thing you're likely to negotiate is the sell price and that only requires a few keystrokes on your laptop. And, bing-bang-boom you're done! This suggests that the biggest advantage of a lease proposal is that it saves time, money, and aggravation.
The key is that you must control the deal. Never allow a dealer to control the deal by allowing them to "run the numbers". Trying to figure out the dealer's numbers is often a pointless exercise and, frankly, a waste of time unless, of course, you have a copy of their LEASE WORKSHEET. This is a computer generated document that eliminates confusion and guess work and will tell you everything you need to know and then some. The beauty of this document is that it always tells the truth. Allowing the dealer to control will only end up costing you more money in most instances.
If you agree to allow the dealer to "run the numbers", ALWAYS ask them for their LEASE WORKSHEET. If they refuse to give you a copy, RUN; DON'T WALK! There is absolutely no reason for the dealer to refuse to give you a copy of their lease worksheet.
I do not advise making a cash down payment (i.e., cash cap reduction). A car is a depreciating asset and is purchased for consumption; and so, it's an expense and not an investment. No savvy investor would ever invest in stock that they know will depreciate or lose value over time. If the vehicle is totaled or stolen and never recovered, you risk losing part or all of your down payment.
Hope th
Honda Finance's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2010 Odyssey Touring with 12,000 miles per year are .00098 and 52%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top aka "Super Preferred" credit tier.
Honda is currently providing $1,500 dealer cash on this van which is compatible with its special lease program.
Car_man
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When negotiating your deal, make sure to take advantage of the $1,500 dealer cash that Honda is currently providing on this model.
Car_man
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Car_man
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Thank you very much for the information.
Bought the van (with wheel-locks, splash-guards, slate-green metallic) OTD for 30,600.
Not bad. Right?
Thank you again...
I will certainly present these figures to the dealer when negotiating a lease!
My other question is - we have a 2006 Subaru Tribeca with 95k miles. KBB has the trade-in value at about $14000.
At what point in the negotiation should I offer the dealership to buy the car from us?
$281 a month (tax incuded) with $1085.00 at signing which composed of acquisition fee, DMV, and first month. 3 years 12K. Residual is $15723.00. Money factor was .00098.
MSRP - $33,405
Base Cap Cost - $29,375
Delivery - $780
Adjusted Cap Cost - $30,155
Residual (54%) - $18,039
Money Factor - .00098
Term - 36 months
Sales Tax (Suffolk County, Long Island) - 8.625%
Monthly payment - $416.89
I feel damned good about this, but would appreciate hearing other people's thoughts. Hope this helps someone.
I think you need to re-visit your numbers because something is definitely wrong...
P = F x (C + R) + (C - R)/N
P = payment = 416.89 should be 383.79 assuming all other numbers are correct
F = money factor = 0.00098
C = adj cap = 30,155
R = residual value = 18,039
N = term = 36
The math does not work out. I get a payment of 383.79, excluding taxes, using your numbers and a payment of 421.30 including taxes.
I have no idea what you mean by base cap cost as there is no such terminology in leasing. Perhaps you mean gross cap cost? A $780 delivery charge? That's included in the MSRP and shouldn't be charged separately. AHFC has a $595 acq fee. Where is that charge? Were you charged a dealer doc fee? Also, you didn't itemize the tax. Where is that?
Also, I don't advise rolling NY taxes into your lease. Here's why...
If you are rolling (i.e., capitalizing) NY sales tax into your lease, you will be paying sales tax on sales tax. As far as I know, the constitutionality of this has never been challenged. In fact, I'm guessing that few New Yorkers realize that sales tax is being levied on sales tax in such instances. NY levies tax on the total taxable payments and requires that taxes be paid at lease inception. However, the taxes can be capitalized in the lease. In such instances, the dealer simply pays the taxes to the State of NY and capitalizes (finances) them in the lease. And so, I don't advise capitalizing the taxes because NY levies tax on tax. If you do, however, here is how it works...
Let:
T = Total Payment Sales Tax Liability
t = Sales Tax Rate = 8.875%
F = Money Factor = 0.00190
N = Term (months) = 36
S = Sell Price = $39,359.20
A = All Capitalized Fees Excluding Tax = $420.00
R = Cap Reduction = $0.00
V = Residual Value = $26,894.90
K = Total Payments Excluding Sales Tax
The total payments (excluding tax) = K = FN(S + A - R + V) + (S + A - R - V)]
Plugging in the assigned values, we get total payments of K = $17,444.81
Adding tax, T, to the total payments, K and, then, multiplying the sum by the sales tax rate, t, we have the formula...
T = (K + T)t = Kt + Tt .... and this is where sales tax is levied on sales tax
Solving for T, we get
T = [t / (1 - t)] x K
Substituting the assigned values, we have
T = [0.08875 / (1 - 0.08875)] x 17,444.81
= $1,699.01
The $1,699.01 includes the additional tax on tax which amounts to $150.79...
You have the tax on the total payments of $17,444.81...
0.08875 x 17,444.81 = 1548.22 PLUS tax on the total tax...
0.08875 x 1,699.01 = 150.79 (tax on tax)
Adding, we get 1,699.01 not to mention the total finance charges that would be levied on the $1,699.01 tax. A very taxing situation indeed!
You can apply this to your own situation to see the impact.
Based on the information you provided, your total sales tax amounts to 1,304.16 which includes an additional tax on tax of 112.48 (1,304.16 x 0.08625) just because you chose to roll the tax into the lease.
John
when you look at www.TrueCar.com and select a particular model (in my case the 2010 Odyssey EX-L with RES), they give you a graphic curve with values like Average Paid, Factory Invoice, etc. If you are trying to get a Lease deal in which you pay similar to the Average Price, where exactly in the LEASER WORKSHEET the dealer shows you do you have to look for this number?
Is it in Total Selling Price or Total Capital Cost?
Thanks
Just trying to be helpful.
John
I have no clue what you mean by "total selling price". Selling price is selling price. It's the value that is agreed upon (i.e., negotiated) between you and the dealer. Every dealer lease worksheet that I've seen has a field labeled "selling price". It's this number that's comparable with the average selling price in a given market. The dealer's lease worksheet will reflect a selling price that seldom, if ever, matches the average selling price for that particular market. However, you can forget about the average selling price as it means very little. Here's why...
When arriving at a selling price to negotiate with the dealer, you don't want to necessarily use the average. Average selling price means that some paid more; some paid less or; some paid average. You want to be included in the group that paid less; not more or, for that matter, not the average. A market sample should be a statistically valid sample. If the average represents the arithmetic average, as opposed to median price, it may be very misleading depending upon whether or not corrections were made for outliers (i.e., those that paid ridiculously high prices would overstate the market's population average versus those that paid ridiculously low prices would understate the market's population average). For statistical reasons alone, it may be inappropriate to select the average selling price claimed in a given market as we don't have much detail on how it was constructed.
So, here is what I suggest...
Check Edmund's invoice pricing as well as incentives. Also, check overstock at zag.com for competitive low pricing in your area. In addition, it's probably a good idea to start with invoice and, then, deduct all cash incentives, if any, as well as holdback. Compare this result with low prices in your area and select the lowest to begin negotiations. Remember, always start low because you can always come up but never down.
Good luck!
John
thanks for your suggestions.
Total selling price i guess is probably just a way to name the selling price. Here is a section of the lease worksheet:
Capitalized Cost Breakdown
Vehicle Cost 32,586.00
Markup -2,270.53
Option Price 0.00
Total Selling Price 30,315.47
Acquisition Fee 595.00
Fees & Insurance 0.00
Inception Fees Due (Capped) 148.68
- Trade In 0.00
- Customer Rebate 0.00
Total Capital Reduction 0.00
Capital Cost 31,059.15
Capped Taxes 4.66
Total Capital Cost: 31,063.81
Thank You.
I was reviewing your post from Aug, 3rd as I anticipate leasing an Odyssey in Arizona, and while working on a proposal calculation in Mic. Excel I am inconclusive about how to calculate the Monthly Taxable Payment. I have been referencing this post and one of your other posts from Aug, 12th to determine the Monthly Taxable Payment. Using the P = F x (C+R)+(C-R)/N formula I get that your Monthly Taxable Payment would have been around $251 rather than $271.72
So, I am wondering how you calculate the Monthly Taxable Payment for sure. Especially when the calculation uses C which is a derivative that includes sales tax, but I can't determine sales tax until I've determined the monthly payment. I am using a selling price of $31,437.00 with a 9.05% sales tax.
Respectfully,
Dylan
A huge factor in leasing that's often overlooked is sales tax. There are four (4) methods used to compute sales tax...
(1) Tax the lease payment as they are received. This is the easiest and by far the
most commonly used method in such states as FL, PA, and CA
(2) Tax the selling price (IL, TX, VA)
(3) Tax the sum of the taxable payments (NJ, NY, OH)
(4) Tax the depreciation (CO)
Dealers do not determine how sales tax is computed; individual states make this determination and regulate accordingly. Depending upon how the lease is structured, the sales tax calculation can be quite complex.
Do you know which one of the four methods Arizona uses to compute sales tax? If so, please let me know so I can answer your question.
John