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Comments
Carabel
Obviously we elected to pass on the Pilot in February -- with 4 payments remaining on our current lease, it just wasn't worth jumping into it. And now my hubby is thinking he wants a Ridgeline, although the numbers may have changed enough on that now also to warrant a total reconsideration. *sigh* Sometimes our timing is just off.
Note that the lease deal says "standard lease" and not "special" - standard with Honda means 0.00245, 0.00255, or higher.
Since they are doing a standard lease, then $2,500-$3,500 incentives may apply so you would have to run the numbers to see how it nets out compared to the prior deals but I would bet it would be higher.
You can go 3rd party lease and get a much lower MF, but the residual will be lower as well (and based on the correct MSRP including the discount). You would again have to run the numbers to see if that were better deal or not.
Dennis
The Ridgelines also have $3,500 incentives but they do still have cheap lease money available (can't be combined, of course). Those are slated to run through 4/30 and the effective interest is about 2.5% and is largely unchanged from Jan-Feb. I tried to talk my wife into getting a Ridgeline so we could get rid of her Accord and our old T100 pickup, she didn't go for it - she wanted the Pilot
Honda has been running some pretty good lease deals on the S2000 lately, but like you I have a few more months to run on my existing S2000 lease and like you the current market value is less than the lease buyout. I am hoping for more cheap leases closer to the end of my lease, but you never know.
Dennis
Dennis
I received the following lease quote from a dealer. Can you please give your valuable feedback on which parts of this lease i can negotiate to make it a really great deal ?
Also, i observed Cap cost went up by $2000. Was it a typo from dealer?
Thanks for your time.
Raj.
BRAND NEW: 2008 PILOT SE AUTO 4WD 5DRS: LEASE # 118317
MASS RESIDENCE: 36 MONTHS LEASE WITH 12K MILES PER YEAR TERM.
MSRP - $33,630.00
Invoice - $30,511.00
Selling price - $26,398.00 with destination charge on a purchase only!
Cap Cost - $28,398.00 with destination charge on a lease only!
Money Factor – (.00043)
Residual Value – (53%)
INCEPTIONS –1ST MONTH PAYMENT, DOC FEE, TITLE FEE, PLATES, AND REGISTRATION FEE (TOTAL DUE AT SIGNING OF $731.00, FOR MASSACHUSETTS RESIDENCE ONLY).
MONTHLY PAYMENT: $347.00 with Mass Sales Tax.
DOC FEE: $298.00
TITLE FEE: $50.00
PLATES AND REGISTRATION FEE: $36.00
Please give me a call so I my secure a vehicle for you until you can able to make it in. As a general rule of thumb; every $1,000.00 total down due at signing, it will lower the monthly payment by $30.00 increment.
All Honda Lease is based on approved credit and Bank final approval. Well qualified buyer may take advantage of the lease program above based on these terms and conditions.
There is a $3,500 dealer incentive if you BUY a Pilot and (where you live) still a special, discounted lease rate. If you do the cheap lease the dealer does not get the whole $3,500 incentive - they get either $1k or $1.5 which is why your price is higher on the lease than it is on the buy.
If you want to lease a Pilot rather than buy, I think that is a nice deal. Even counting the doc fee your price is $1,815 under invoice so you are into the hold back. The lease rate is not quite as good as it was last month and the residual is down a point from last month, I think. But still a nice deal.
The lease money factor is right at 1% effective financing, so roll the bank fee and all the taxes, doc fees, etc into the lease and only pay at most the first payment when you pick up the Pilot. Where else can you borrow money for 1% interest?
Dennis
If you go to the current offers page and use a ZIP from one of these states, like this then the two VP special leases should show up.
The 2WD VP lease is 50% residual (down 1% from last month) and the MF is 0.00029 (0.70% effective) - about double what it was last month - but still a smoking hot lease rate.
The 4WD lease is 53% residual and the MF is 0.00043 (1.03% effective) - a little higher than last month but again a smoking lease rate.
Like last month, the lease specials appear to extend to all Pilots and not just the two VP models shown.
So if you live in one of the states shown - lease game on!
If not, you could contact a dealer *IN* one of those states and see if they can lease you a Pilot for those rates anyway. On the last promo FINANCE deals it was based then on where the dealer is - not the buyer. So it never hurts to ask.
Dennis
2008 Pilot EX-L with Nav
MSRP: 35,707
Res: 51%
36 Mo.
15K mile year
$ 483 due at signing, 1st month payment
$ 483.00 per month including tax
Is this a good deal?
Thanks for the good news Dennis.
We prefer our local no haggle dealer -- they are a pleasure to do business with, even if that means we won't be able to get them to pay off our old lease for us.
I should be getting some numbers from them over the weekend or early next week and I'll post them when I do.
This is the way it has been in the past - they would have a special loan rate for residents of certain states, but you could buy your Honda from a dealer in a state not on the list and still get the low rate.
Just the opposite during the "President's Day" low financing where you could go to a dealership in a low rate state and buy using 2.9% money even if you reside in a state not included in the cheap money.
Dennis
2008 Pilot EX-L with Nav and a dealer installed DVD
MSRP - 34,880
Selling Price - 30923.42
ACQ. Fee - 595.00
Total Price - 32017.42
Res - 45%
Payment - 499 including tax
600 - due at signing 1st month and some fee
How did we do? Any thoughts.
Sign and Drive Deal
Extra- wood trim package
15k miles / 36 mos.
$394 a month (includes taxes and all fees and registration)
How did you go about getting this deal, given that the current Honda offering is $259/mo with $2,499 due at signing. So how did you go about reducing the amount you had to pay up front to $1,400? Did this include tax, title and registration?
The deal I got was the Honda incentive ending 03MAR08 - published at $259 plus tax per month plus 1,999 due at signing. The $1400 down includes everything - acquisition fee, dealer's fee and registration. It really depends on the dealer - if they want to sell another car or not. Got quotes from 4 and I picked the nicest guy. They can give you a great deal especially towards month end where another sale may make a difference to their layered incentives. The lease special has a 1K incentive to the dealer - I think. The deal was made in Fort Lauderdale FL where I live. If you need more info, let me know.
Carabel
Bad move: go to a dealership and say "I want that lease deal I saw online"
Bad move II: go to a dealership and say "I want to lease that for less than $300 a month".
Good move: negotiate a low selling price - at least $1k under invoice for the Pilot, destination, and any dealer fees. Try to do all you negotiation online with the "Internet sales rep". Then plug the numbers into a lease calc and see how the payment comes out.
Dennis
Also, I was wondering if its good to work with other manufacturers 2 months out from my lease end as they know I'll need a new car and I'm dropping my leased car off at a Honda dealer. Is there any negotiation room with this and will they often times buy the lease out in regards to acquiring a customer? Being so close to my lease end, is it better to ride out the rest of my lease or is it better to swap it in a deal for another lease?
Thanks!
Carabel
If your buy out price is too high, then you might be better off to just sell it yourself now or wait and turn it in - but I would think a low mile V-6 might be worth more than buyout.
If you trade you car in rather than turn it in, then there is no end of lease inspection and no (possible) pay outs for stuff like excessive wear or tires or dings.
Dennis
If the re-do on the Civic (06) and Accord (08) are an indicator there will not be cheap lease deals and dealer incentives and possibly too many dealers willing to deal low when the new design arrives. As the "gotta be the first" folks get theirs and sales slow things will get better - and probably a good bit faster than they did for the new Accord and Civic. If you live where you can get a cheap lease on the 08 now, coupled with the incentive money and motivated dealers you could save a ton of money of what a new 09 Pilot would cost you in a lease. If you live where there is no cheap lease money, so could still do OK now with a 3rd party lease and taking the $3,500 non-AHFC lease incentive compared to what you probably do when the new model comes out.
Dennis
What is the most useful lease calculator you have used and what is the best website to determine the invoice price and holdback?
I normally use carsdirect to find invoice, but Edmunds and KBB seem fine for that as well. Carsdirect is nice in that enforces option choices - if you can't order option x without taking option y it tells you.
Edmunds is my normal source for incentives and hold back info. Keep in mind that often folks in a particular forum my hear about incentives and promotions before they are posted on Edmunds incentives page. So folks shopping every day for a Pilot may hear that an incentive exists or is raised or lowered before that info appears on the Edmunds page.
Dennis
Any ideas??? Would like to hear back from anyone who might have an idea. Thanks in advance, Scott
CT, DE, IL, IN, KY, MA, ME, MI, NH, NJ, NY, OH, PA, RI, VT & WV
0.00043 is the cheap money lease at just under 1%, for this that live where there is no lease special the MF is 0.00245 which is nearly 6 times higher at 5.88% effective. The only way for your payments to stay the same with nearly 6x the interest is for the dealer to discount the Pilot to make it up or for you to have to pay more into the lease - otherwise the payments will be going up. If they ask you to sign a new contract, check it over carefully as you may have to just give them back the Pilot if you are no longer getting a good deal.
As a note to everyone, please update your forum profile to AT LEAST include your state of residense if not city and state. An e-mail would be nice and other information, but at least put in the state where you live. Taxes, deals, dealer recommendations, and many other things are location specific and including this info in your profile makes it a lot easier for others to help you out.
Dennis
Yes we're located in Colorado, Colorado Springs to be exact. I'll update my profile.
Thanks again. I'll let you know how it turns out!
Dennis
Would you recommend acting like you are going to buy the Pilot and getting the best possible deal in writing (or by email). Then tell the dealer that you have decided to lease and based on this negotiated price, here is what my lease would be... Or is this too bold.
Also, if I have a tradein, I assume I shouldn't mention this until I get the lease worked out first.
Craig
Absolutely. And always leverage the competition with multiple dealers. And I do believe that you fare better at the end of the month - I signed my lease on 29FEB08. And for March, you have the added leverage of dealerships making their quarter targets. Also, if you can visit the dealership and find the guy with the highest sales for the month - he/she will more likely get you a better deal. I took a sneak peak at their sales board.
Dennis, would you be so kind as to help me with an MBC300 purchase. I have to take it offline as this is a pilot thread. The Edmunds MB thread is not quite as healthy. Edmunds invoice is 33,620 with the chosen options.
Thanks/Carabel
The main reason to avoid mention leasing is that many salesfolks will convert from price negotiating to payment negotiating - and you do not want that.
If they ask about your trade you could say "I am planning on selling to someone I know" and then once your price is done and all your numbers are in place, then you could say that the "deal fell through" and you can't take the new Pilot until you get rid of your current car - so how much will they give you for it?
If I lived in a state that did not have the cheap money for leases, I would not lease a Pilot at this time, I don't think. I would wait for better terms, buy the Pilot (some states are getting cheap financing starting today), or lease something else.
Dennis
I am trying to determine how Honda Pilot numbers come out for my
state (DE) offer: $259 /mo with $2,499 up front. The residual and money
factor I am not sure of. So, please help me out with understanding this.
It appears that the agreed price (according to the offer) is $24,751.51, which
is about $880 below invoice (am I calculating this right?)
Honda Pilot VP (most of this is from offer details)
$29,030 (MSRP with destination from Honda.com- this is higher than Edmunds?)
$25,631 (invoice from Edmunds)
$1645 (cap depreciation)
$595 (acquisition fee)
$259 (first month payment)
$23,442.52 actual net capitalized cost from offer. So, does this mean the selling
price of the car with this offer is $23,442.52 + $1,645 + $259 - $595 =
$24,751.52?? If so, is this a good value??
Money factor = 0.0014 ??
Residual = 49%??
Using Leaseguide.com, I come up with these numbers giving me around $259 / mo.
Thanks
Craig
The difference in the MSRP is that there is a "value package" discount and the actual MSRP is something less ($800) than the MSRP Honda uses to calculate the lease from.
The deal as written is for $500 or so under invoice, but there is a $1,000 or $1,500 dealer incentive that applies even when you lease. So you should be able to negotiate a lower price that they state. Also, the deal has you paying a good bit at signing but you do not have to. With the effective interest rate on the lease < 1% I would roll the bank fee and most everything else into the lease. Your payment will be more than $259 per month, but where else can you borrow money at under 1%?
Dennis
Using the money factor = 0.00041 (I used 0.00014, which was backwards)
and residual value at 49%
I work backwards to get the price of the car at $24,300, which is $1,331 below invoice. This seems to be a good deal.
If I reduce the capitalized cost reduction and first months payment to $0, then the monthly comes out to $312/mo. I would still be paying th $595 bank fee. I am not sure how to remove this with the leaseguide calculator.
How do I approach the dealer at this point?
1) do I negotiate the residual value? What is the range for residuals for this car.
2) I assume I don't negotiate the money factor, since it's excellent already
3) do I make them aware that I know what the invoice is, dealer holdback (3%
MSRP and incentive $1,000 to $1,500), or do I just say what I want to pay
for the base cap cost.
Thanks,
Craig
A HIGH monthly lease payment for this vehicle is $440.57.
A GOOD monthly lease payment for this vehicle is $325.88.
An EXCELLENT monthly payment for this vehicle is $245.85.
payments do not include tax
Therefore, your payment amount of $259.00 is rated Outstanding.
The special shows the net cap as $23,442.52, $2,499 due at signing and that is $1,645 cap cost reduction plus $595 bank fee plus $259 first payment. This makes the negotiated price of the Pilot $25,087.52 which is $542.48 under the $25,630 invoice price. That leaves $457.52 (if the incentive is $1k) and hold back of 2% of MSRP (about $565) as profit for the dealer - assuming they do not charge a doc fee.
If you plug in the details from the posted deal and solve for the money factor it should come out 0.00029 which is 0.7% equivalent money. The residual is 50% and this can't be changed by you or the dealer.
The way you save money on the deal is drive the price lower. They have a $2,500 PURCHASE dealer incentive and a $1k or $1.5K LEASE incentive on the VP Pilots. You want the price to be about invoice less the $1k for the Pilot, destination, and fees - or less if you can get it. Then you just roll in the $595 bank fee and any taxes, title, license stuff into the lease and then pay first payment (at most) and drive it home.
I would talk to them about price first and get that where you want it to be. If you say "I want that lease deal I saw online" you are leaving several hundred on the table.
Dennis
You deal the price down to invoice or less including incentives, lease it for a money factory below "market rates" and you have a great deal. In this case, the 2WD MF is .7% and the 4WD MF is just over 1% - even if you paid too much for the Pilot this would be a hot lease.
The effective interest on our Pilot (leased in Jan) is so low (0.34%) that the interest for the LIFE OF THE LEASE is less than $200. Our price was down into the hold back as well. So I don't need any evaluator to tell me we got a smoking hot deal
Dennis
By the way, is the low MF and lease incentive ONLY for VP models? Any deals on EX models?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The difference between the deal that I got and yours is the capitalized cost reduction. My lease is written with 900 cap cost reduction and yours at 1600. Hence, the 259 per month/1400 down assuming slight fees variations. The sell price and all other numbers are in line. As per Dennis's calculation, you are leaving nearly 1,000 on the table. If you want to be nice, split it and leave them with 500. They have to make some money too. Leases become less attractive as the year goes by or so I was told unless the manufacturer - Honda absorbs the discounts - this is highly likely if they want to clear the 2008 models sooner rather than later.
Carabel.
Dennis
Here is the deal on the table for me:
2008 SE 4WD
Invoice: 30,510
Cap cost: 28,546
Money: .00043
Residual: 53%
12K miles per year
$342.00 per month
First payment: 700.00 Includes registration, fees and license.
Any money or trade put down, reduces the payment by 29$ per $1000
Really wanted leather, but it is $40 more per month so I will live.
Is it a good deal? Many thanks!
Becky
I think you can try to see if they will agree to a lower cap cost. If you read some of the threads on what people paid for an outright buy - I think you can get this deal for a sell price of 27K-27.5K bringing down your payment to roughly 315 per month. Again good deals vary across different states. Also, read on the 4WD steering wheel vibration thread and make sure that the car you take home does not have that issue. Some of them apparently do so test drive the car under similar speeds as posted on the thread.
If you did buy, then the dealer would get the full $3,500 incentive and you would have to get a lower price to make this a good deal.
I would put as little down as possible, maybe just the 1st payment. Where else can you borrow money for 1% ?
Dennis
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I am a new Pilot EXL- 2008 owner, bought it on Feb/23/ 03 with 2.9% for 60months.
paid $27,795 ( included destination&handling) + tax+fee. Do you think it is a good deal?
I purchased the Pilot for me, but My wife loves it so much that she stole it from me. She has a 2000 Odyssey and makes me drive the Ody to work now. I am not very happy ofcourse, therefore looking to get myself either another Pilot. Maybe this time just an EX. Not sure if wanna lease or purchase. But when I started to look into leasing. there are many glossary that I am not sure I fully understand. SO I am asking if you can help. Read the following:
Subject to limited availability. 3/04/2008 through 4/30/2008, to approved lessees by American Honda Finance Corp. Closed end lease for 2008 Pilot 2WD VP Automatic Transmission vehicles (Model YF2828EW), for well qualified lessees. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $29,030.00 (includes destination) less the capitalized cost reduction resulting in actual net capitalized cost $23,442.52. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Taxes, license, title fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $9,324.00. Option to purchase at lease end $14,515.00. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mi. over 12,000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mi. over 12,000 miles/year. See dealer for complete details."
Where it said: "MSRP $29,030.00 (includes destination) less the capitalized cost reduction resulting in actual net capitalized cost $23,442.52". Is the $23,442.52 the final sale price? and what does it really mean : less the capitalized cost reduction resulting in actual net capitalized cost ?
David.
To answer your question, the net cap is after a cap cost reduction you pay at signing. The amount of that is one thing you failed to post.
If you live in a state where there is currently a lease promotion - go the current offers page and put in your ZIP code - then it is a nice deal. Around 1% effective rate for 4WD Pilots and less for 2WD models. It will say "special lease" on the screen after you put in your ZIP code.
If it says "standard lease" then you don't live where the cheap lease applies, and it is not a very good deal.
Also keep in mind than there is a $2,500 or $3,500 SALES dealer incentive but if you do the cheap lease this drops to $1k or perhaps $1.5k.
In every case, the deal shown leaves $500 or more on the table so you would want to negotiate the price of the Pilot lower then apply the lease money factor. If you get the cheap lease, then pay little or nothing at signing and let Honda finance you at 1% or less.
Dennis
Keep in mind that:
In states where there is a still a cheap lease deal, the dealer may not get the full incentive shown for a PURCHASED Pilot. So your negotiated lease price may be a good deal higher than your negotiated purchase price.
In states where there is not a cheap lease deal, the standard AHFC lease deal is not that good.
Dennis