Honda Pilot Lease Questions

jsdilops

12k/36 or 15k/36?

robroth

missed that detail. mine was indeed 12k. with the way my wife is racking up miles in just 4 days, i probably SHOULD have looked into 15k .

jsdilops

Well, I did the math with the EX-L AWF w/Navi. For a similar deal (inv-1000-holdback+100=30916) and assuming you are paying first months + reg. fees(68.50) at inception(around your 500) this is what I got:
MSRP (including destination) : 36280
Invoice (including destination) : 32905
Price paid : 30916
Honda Finance Fee : 595
Tag : 125
Registr. Fees : 0
Total Cap. Cost : 31636
Residual % - 12k : 51
Residual Value : 18502.8
Money Factor : 0.0003
Pre-tax monthly payment : $379.85
Total monthly including 5% tax : $398.85
Total due at start : First Month+68.50
So, the dealer was quoting you $22 above a similar deal.
Doing the inverse math, for $421 and $500 at inception, 12k/36, you would have paid 31666 for the car, and the dealer would have made $850 more than they did with me (in theory, we are not 100% sure the 1000 lease incentive is the same for all trims, but one would assume so).
Bottom line, never look at monthly payment. Evaluate a good deal by the sales price and then do the math.

eoreos

Mahwah Honda. I didn't even have to try to get that price.

eoreos

Just inceptions, about $1500. This is for the AWD version.

dwynne

Congrats on the new Pilot, sounds like a sweet deal to me - $100 over dealer cost including all known incentives and 100% of hold back sounds might nice.

We paid just first month and local tax at signing, but I should have done like you and done a sign and drive .

What color did you get?

Dennis

dwynne

Bottom line, never look at monthly payment. Evaluate a good deal by the sales price and then do the math.

Exactly!

Deal the price down, get the lease rate and residual and plug them in and the payment is what it is. Just about any time you "play price" with the dealer you will not win. Someone just asked if they had a good deal and has no idea what they are paying or the Pilot - which is the most important part.

Dennis

dwynne

If Honda will loan you the money for 0.33% or 0.71% then why on earth pay $1,500 at signing? Pay maybe first month or do a sign and drive. Where else you going to get a near zero interest loan for 36 months?

Dennis

jsdilops

I'm ashamed to tell you. I didn't like the gray leather, the saddle one works better for me, Honda has saddle interior only with White, Black, Mocha and Dark Cherry exterior color. Dark Cherry looks nice but reveals dirt and dust too fast. Being kind of lazy to wash my car every week, I went for Mocha exterior color. Same color as my previous pilot!.

dwynne

We have a mocha Pilot as well (VP 2WD) and love the color. I think my wife might have preferred the steel blue or silver by a slight bit, but mocha was available. The dark cherry did not do anything for either of us and we don't like black or white. The 05 Accord we had was beige and was a very nice color, the new mocha is a little darker but still attractive.

Sounds nice, enjoy! My wife tells me just about every day how much she loves her Pilot and how comfy it is - and she was driving the 05 Accord, which was not a bad car .

Dennis

jsdilops

A note about sign-n-drive:
I couldn't figure out how they calculate the sign and drive. For quote purposes, they just calculate a regular lease payment, then they add the monthly payment with taxes (which is wrong, you end up paying taxes on the taxes for the first month) to the cap cost and recalculate again. I think they should divide the depreciation by 35 and the interest part as usual (cap.cost+residual)*MF, and add 1 month extra of interest to the cap cost.
Their calculations for sign-n-drive is always like 0.50 above mine. It always works for them :-)
I usually do like you, first month payment at delivery, it's much easier to calculate, but this year the MF was so low I couldn't help it...

dwynne

I think it is normal to just add the payment back into the net cap cost and re-figure.

If you took the total of payments and divided it by 1 less than the term you would be getting "free interest" on the payment you did not make at the start of the lease. This would be:

Total of payments = payment w/tax * lease term
New Payment = total of payments / (lease term - 1)

and I don't think that is correct.

So I think you figure out the payment w/tax, add it back in to the cap, then re-figure the payment but make each payment 1/(term-1) of the total payments this time.

This would be:

Normal Payment = figured with a lease calc using term, residual, net cap cost
New Payment = figured with term, residual, and (net cap + normal payment)
Total of payments = new payment * term
Adjusted new payment = total of payments / (term - 1)

So adjusted new payment should be what you pay every month (except the first) on a sign and drive.

As to the tax, it is due on the payment in most states so if you roll the first payment in then you have to roll the tax on it in as well.

Dennis

arpadi

Hi, I was wondering if some of you could comment on the lease I just signed yesterday.

Invoice: $ 26896 (inc $635 destination)
Selling price: $25712.05 (inc $635 destination)
Difference: -$1183.95

Fees: Acq/Bank Fee: $595
NJ Lic/Title: 262.50
Dealer Doc Fee: $199
NJ Tire Tax: $7.50
Total: $1064

Cap Cost Reduction: $360

Payments: $259/mo + 7.4% NJ tax = $281/mo x 35mo, 12k miles/yr
Total Fees + CCR + 1st mo payment = $1705

I think the fees were pretty non-negotiable (except the doc fee but the dealer wouldn't budge saying it was standard). Maybe could've gotten away w/o the $360 CCR but then that would've dropped the sale price to $1543 below invoice which the dealer said he couldn't do.
Thanks.

eoreos

I agree with you on that. I will consider making only the first payment and keeping that money aside. However, what is the opinion of the deal itself?

thanks.

dwynne

How much is the doc fee? I think your selling prices is well under the known $1k incentive off of invoice. If your price including doc fee is at invoice less incentive or below, then that is a good deal.

Dennis

djw1212

After weeks of looking and some sound advice we leased a 08 Pilot EXL AWD (no fwd availible around philly). I would have never thought of leasing, but with the rates they were offering i had to do it.
MSRP $34080
Invoice $30914
Price paid $29614
Down $ 1700 (i know, see below)
36 m/12k per
Monthly $ 350 including tax (9% in PA)
Residual $18000
Best purchase i was offered by a dealer was $ 27,917 and most dealers were right around invoice for a lease

I know i should have went for a sign and drive, but my wife wanted the payments at $350,nice round , minimum down, would have been $370

May have made out better by waiting a bit but really wanted the color combo we got
(cherry/gray) and most dealers around here had one or two in stock.

Thanks Dennis for all your # crunching a leasing advice

jsdilops

Well, my point is, it's not a good math. They(and we) should be able to calculate that in 1 step. The dependency cap_cost-monthly_payment-new_cap_cost-new_monthly _payment it's a circular reference that can be solved by putting every variable in the equation and solving it. This is an interesting topic, I wrote my own lease calculator and would like to get the formula straight. I also got a simple xls that it's very easy to use, if anybody if interested, but I don't know if we can post any files here. If not, then xls formulas can be posted.
So, let's go over a couple of points:

>If you took the total of payments and divided it by 1 less than the term you would be getting "free interest" on the payment you did not make at the start of the lease
That's whay I said "add 1 month extra of interest to the cap cost".

>Total of payments = payment w/tax * lease term
>New Payment = total of payments / (lease term - 1)
>and I don't think that is correct.
Right, that's not the way, you are correct about this being incorrect :-)

>As to the tax, it is due on the payment in most states...
absolutely. 100% agree

> so if you roll the first payment in then you have to roll the tax on it in as well.
If you roll the tax in the cap cost, then it will be divided again by the # of months, then you add the tax to the payment, paying tax on the first-month-tax.

This is valid for in most states, as you said, there are some exceptions, and maybe the dealers aren't following any logical path here.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks.

dwynne

I have asked several times in several places about the formula for a sign and drive and I have not found one that works like I think it should. Since I have never done one, I have not put a lot of effort into figuring it all out . My method gets it "Close enough" that I can check some dealer's math or suggest to someone what it might be.

Maybe the right answer is to roll with base payment (no tax) back into the cap and refigure the lease again. Take the sum or the payments and divide that by (term-1) .

I guess the right answer is to figure the interest on the first payment (no tax) and add that to the first payment, then divide that sum by the (term-1) and add that amount to each payment (pre-tax) than figure tax on top of that.

The formula for a lease in a spreadsheet is simple and all fits on one line:

=((B18-B4) / B7) + ((B18+B4) * B9)

Where (in this example) B18 is net cap, B4 is residual, B7 is term in months and B9 is MF.

Dennis

leaseladyinva

where in VA? dealer?

jsdilops

Yeap, now we agree, roll the pre-tax payment into the cap cost...
Maybe it's not worth it, just because the dealers are not using any exact math for this, and we always get close enough, as you said.
Anyways, this is simple math. You can also find the Money Factor from the rest of the variables. I'm sure some people will find this useful.
Honda website doesn't publish the MF, but it publishes everything else

MF=(MP-(CC-RV)/#M)/(CC+RV)

where
MF: Money Factor
MP: Monthly payment before tax
CC: Cap Cost
RV: Residual Value
#M: Number of months in the lease.

From Honda web site, for the Pilot 4WD VP:
MP = 259
CC = 25,305.49
RV = 16,432.20
#M = 36

Resulting Money Factor: 0.0003

dwynne

I have a spreadsheet for figuring the MF as well. I used to do it trial and error in my lease calc, but decided to spend the (brief) time once to do the sheet so I can just drop the numbers in and go.

The MF is not listed on most lease contracts either, so no reason to list it online .

My wife still loves her Pilot, but reports right at 17mpg commuting back and forth to work.

Dennis

leaseladyinva

Dennis,
Thanks for responding to my PP (below) never got deal done because by the time I rolled in all monies except 1st month and tags and title AND the remaining payments on my current lease $1890, sales price was $31477 and monthly payment was $435. I walked out. Well in past couple of days I have received word from 2 dealers that price for SE is $28500. Have you heard about any further sales cust nationally? Any comments for my deal in light of new prices?
Thanks.
mrstrina

Dennis
You seem real knowledgeable...I got this quote today and wanted to get something done this weekend so your advice is greatly appreciated. And it goes without saying that I am not paying that much at signing. This deal is from Fairfax Honda in VA.

New sale price: $29,902.00 (a $602 discount from our earlier quotation.)
$290.66/month for 36 months with 12,000 per year mileage allowance
Up Front Breakdown:
$1,415.00 Capitalized Cost Reduction
595.00 AHFC Lease Acquisition Fee (covers Honda's cost to dealership for lease placement including GAP, wear & tear allowance, lease end disposition, etc...)
385.00 Dealer processing fee (back office & document prep - just went up $96 - if you come in this weekend, I can probably get you the old fee)
64.50 VA Registration, titling & tags
290.66 First lease payment
1,204.63 VA new car taxes (& Local Fairfax Business tax)
$3,954.79 Total due at signing
$18,592.20 Guaranteed Residual 54%

piloti_sti

Ok here is my latest quote on the Pilot I am after. I am still leaning to a lease because of several reasons like flexibility of walking away in 3 years, the fact that I would be paying around $4-5000 in interest over the life of the loan for a purchase etc.

MSRP: $29030
Selling price: $24150.
Costs added to lease: $1419. (first, dealer fee, bankfee, etc etc.)
Net cap cost: $25569
Residual: $14805
Money Fac: .00014
36month/36k miles
$304.65+21.33 tax for a monthly of $325.98

So basically $1500 under invoice and ZERO down. How does this sound?

Thanks

eoreos

Doc fee is $165 I believe. And I think the total under invoice was somewhere about $1400. Looks like I'll be doing the deal then. Thanks.

carshopper41

Doesn't do me too much good in AZ, but while Net searching I stumbled on an ad for Honda Village in MA (http://www.hondavillage.com/)
2008 Pilot VP AWD
36mo lease
2300 down plus the other fees
$179/mo
If you can roll the fees into the lease, it seems like a pretty screaming deal for a shopper in the MA area. Nothing this good advertised out in AZ.
P.S. No, I don't work for the dealer.

jsdilops

I would ask them to drop the dealer fee.

nmacknight

I was under the impression that the dealer fee was not negotiable.
thanks
:confuse:

dwynne

Normally it is not, but you can ask them to discount the Pilot more to offset it. I would think you would want to be at/under invoice less the $1k incentive including the Pilot, destination, and dealer fee.

Dennis

piloti_sti

Well, every dealer in my area has a $399 or $499 dealer fee. And I contacted about 8-10 dealers. Also, this took a lot of effort to get this deal, Most thought I was crazy to ask for a better deal than the national advertised program. Some of them said that they are moving plenty of them on that program and have no need to reduce and a couple are bidding for my business at this point.

I think I have just about got to the end as I am starting to hear about this is the best they can do, period. I actually believe them that 98% of people go in there and just sign the papers on the advertised deal and don't think twice.

I don't think there is much meat left on the bone and I have a car that is on it's last leg so I may have to do something soon. Overall an almost $30k SUV w/zero dollars down for $325 does not sound too bad.

jsdilops

Exactly, I negotiated my deal 4 days ago based on a no-dealer fee price. Then in the purchase order they discounted 600 from the price and added a 600 dealer fee. I really don't care. I got it at 1800 under invoice, or at 2400 under invoice with 600 dealer fee. Makes no difference.

jsdilops

Dealer cost would be Inv-1000-holdback = 23784.
I would try to get that + 100 (23884) with no dealer fee, they probably won't go for it (that is what I got in the EX-L, but probably VP is easier to move), but I'm pretty sure they will do it for 200 o 300 more, e.g. 24084 or 24184 with no dealer fee.
For how much will you drive to miami ;-) ?
I can try to talk to the person who sold me my car...

dwynne

Hey, my wife and I drove 2 1/2 hours each way to Hennessy to save nearly $1,200 on our Pilot . The local dealers would do the advertised deal only and were adding a dealer fee on top of that.

I guess it depends on how much you figure you could save VS how much trouble it would be to save that money. Travelling to Miami or GA may could save you some nice coin, but may not be worth the gas and time and trouble to do so. Everyone wants to pay the least for their deal - like $100 over invoice, less incentive, less all of hold back and no dealer fee, but most of us are NOT going to get that deal. So if you have to pay a little bit more than someone else, it is not the end of the world .

You do have a nice deal and if you don't want to work on the dealers more or travel to save a bit more, then get your new Pilot and enjoy it!

Dennis

jsdilops

I know he's in FL, but not sure how far from miami.

piloti_sti

I am in Clearwater so a Miami trip would not be practical. But I would do an hour or 2 drive, I am still getting offers in so we will see where I end up.

dwynne

If you don't have a trade, you can do a fly out and drive back - I have done that before. I have also leased a couple of cars sight-unseen, just paid a car hauler to bring them to me (cheaper and easier than plane tickets in some cases).

Just a couple more options .

Dennis

piloti_sti

Thanks for the ideas. I am still more than $1000 under invoice even with dealer fee and I actually expect a better offer or 2 to come in. So if I can get rid of even part of the dealer fee through more discounts then great.

Thanks

m5yates

My local dealer wants to sell me a Pilot VP 2WD for $3100 under invoice. When I mentioned other dealers were selling for less, he said he would match the best deal I could find. I've emailed Gwinnett Place in Atlanta.

Where have you been able to get the $4000 below invoice deals and who did you work with?

Thanks,
Bill

dwynne

Try Hennessy in Woodstock, GA. The priced my lease Pilot down into hold back.

You should also post over in the Pilot prices paid forum , since this is the Pilot LEASE forum fewer folks will be buying Pilots that view this forum.

Dennis

m5yates

Thank you Dennis.

Sorry about the off topic post. I was looking at the forum name (Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences) not the thread title when I posted.

Bill

bigblueindy1

Just leased a steel blue metallic SE last weekend at Sam Swope in Louisville Ky. They paid $1500 worth of lease payments and I got out the door for $400 month/36 months taxes included with no money down. They even kept my 05 Pilot and had it inspected for me which luckily came out with no charges after the Honda inspection today. I looked around at other dealers but I always come back to them because of the pricing and service they offer. If anyone wants my salesperson's name leave me an email address. :shades:

jackson11

Hello,

I'm new here and trying hard to take all of this knowledge in so thank you for all of your help.

I'm looking to lease an 08 Pilot EXL, 36 months, 12K miles per yr...

The seemingly 2 best quotes I've received are these:

$355 per month w/ 1500 due @ signing
$386 per month w/ 486 due @ signing

What questions do I need to ask the salesperson so that I can break this all down to see what I am paying for the vehicle? I guess I'm not grasping all of these numbers and formulas I'm seeing on here. Thanks for any and all help.

piloti_sti

Ask the dealer what the selling price is, and what the dealer fee is. The money factor and residulal should be .00014 and 51% then you can go here http://leaseguide.com/calc.htm and plug the numbers in and see if it makes sense.

jackson11

Thanks for your reply. Here is what the first dealership told me.

36 months, 12K per year, $386 per month payment, $486 down @ signing...

Sell price $30,012, tax $816.89, dealer fee $595, Residual $18,062 (which dealer said was 53% but my calculations say 54%), money factor of .00030 .
I'm still waiting of the figures from the other two dealerships.
Any opinions of this? It still flies over my head a bit. Thanks for the help.

dwynne

First step - get the price of the Pilot. You want to be around $1k UNDER invoice as shown online (Edmunds, KBB, carsdirect.com, etc) for the Pilot including destination and dealer doc or prep fee. Some are getting even lower prices, down into the hold back.

Once you have the low price, it is simply a matter of plugging the numbers into a lease calculator and seeing how the payment falls.

With these cheap lease deals, I would roll the $595 bank fee, taxes, and just about everything except maybe the first month's payment into the lease.

Dennis

mchearsch

Hi all.
I am located in Atlanta, GA and have been shopping around for and 08 EX-L w/ Nav.
Have read all the boards and have seen what others are getting for this truck and I am getting nowhere near that.

Being quoted on a 3yr/36000:

MSRP - 34880
CAP - 30500 (the lowest so far)
Residual - 48% (by 2 dealers)
MF - .00014

Cap seems high (I was thinking I would be able to get 29 something) and the residual seems low (most people here are getting 51%)

Any thoughts? Suggestions?
THANKS

tifighter

Has anyone heard what the actual residual is in on an EX AWD right now? I know 54% seems to be the consensus, but Honda does not appear to use straight sticker to to calc from, which is why I am seeking an actual amount. Ideas?

jackson11

I'm new to this but within the last hour two dealerships have quoted me 54% residual on an 08 Pilot EX-L (no nav or dvd) 4 wd. Both dealers told me residual was 53% but when I run the numbers in the lease calculator, both scenarios show 54%. On the EX-L, both dealerships quoted the same residual number of $18,062.

tifighter

But here's the deal, for the lease calculator to work, you need to know the variables. On Honda's VP lease deal, for example, they use a MSRP of $30430 to calc the residual of $16432.20, or 54%. But that $30430 is an odd duck. The listed MSRP is $28995, then add destination of $635; that gets us to 29630. Then there's the $800 VP 'x-factor' thing that has been discussed here before...now we are at the $30430 number used to calc residual.

What I am trying figure out is what number I use to calculate the residual on the EX. Do I use MSRP + dest.? This gives me a residual of $17161.20 .But is there some other 'x-factor' at play here? Just wondering if anyone already knows this. :confuse:

jackson11

Everytime I think I'm starting to get the hang of this it gets more confusing.

steevo

Ok..
I pick this car up Monday. I ended up going with an EX-L with Nav. Sticker is 36280, Paid 31155, 2000 under invoice.
MF is .0003 but the Residual is 49% rather than the 51% that I expected. This is an AWD model and I took 36 months @ 15000 miles per year.
NO trade.