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Comments
And about the 4WD, I don't think you can get the same price compared to the same 2WD model, you may get the same monthly payment, you'll have to do the math.
They also show a single stock number at this price. Dealers often advertise "loss leaders" (priced to sell at a loss) to get folks to call and come on to the lot. Then they tell you that one was sold, but they have lots of others at a higher price.
Since you know the residual, the MF, the term, and their payment (if you lease) then you can solve for the cap cost. And that is $26,053. They state $999 due at signing so if you take out the $595 bank fee and $199 dealer fee and $280 first payment you get $-75 - so the net cap contains $75 of fees so we take that off to get the selling price. That makes the net price on the LEASE $25,978 and NOT the $25k they advertise if you BUY the Pilot.
Does that make sense? Check my numbers as I ran them in a hurry, but I think they should be OK.
$25,978 makes a lot more sense than $25k when doing the lease, doesn't it? Previously I stated that the deal as Honda promos it calls for the Pilot to be sold $411 under invoice at $26,450.49 and there is supposed to be a $1k dealer incentive if you LEASE. So $1k - 411 = $589. If you take this $589 off the promo selling price you get $25,861.49 or $116.51 over the price I calculated using this one dealers advertised lease. So they would make that as profit plus $912 in hold back.
So I still say offering them $25k on a lease would be a dumb price
Dennis
Even my salesperson said the new Pilot was ugly and "if they don't do something we can't sell them" or words to that effect. The NY auto show later in the year is supposed to be the first look at a production 09 Pilot and may not look like the concept they showed previously. Heck, they may be scrambling to re-do it right now based on the negative feedback....
If it is really that homely in person, Honda may can remove some of the incentives and deals on the 08s since folks will want to get a nice looking Pilot while they still can.
Dennis
So, yes 29500 is a good deal.
I don't think Honda Finance allows 18k miles/year, but I'm not 100% sure. The maybe quoting you using another leasing co., so you better clarify that.
In either case, seems that the monthly payment is too low for only 1000 down.
I don't think AHFC does 18k per year leases, so they could be quoting a 3rd party lease (and the $1,500 incentive would apply to that). But I could not see any way to get that low of a payment using real world 3rd party bank money factors. I plugged the numbers in at leasecompare.com and even using a discounted rate I get $528 per month on a 36 month/18k per year lease (12k would be $478).
If I plug in $29,500, a guess at residual (49%), 36 and 0.00030 into the lease calc I get $369.44 per month. So if AHFC does 18k then knowing the right residual would show the payment.
If could be that $29,500 is the cash/loan price and they are using another number for the lease price.
Dennis
You seem real knowledgeable...I got this quote today and wanted to get something done this weekend so your advice is greatly appreciated. And it goes without saying that I am not paying that much at signing. This deal is from Fairfax Honda in VA.
New sale price: $29,902.00 (a $602 discount from our earlier quotation.)
$290.66/month for 36 months with 12,000 per year mileage allowance
Up Front Breakdown:
$1,415.00 Capitalized Cost Reduction
595.00 AHFC Lease Acquisition Fee (covers Honda's cost to dealership for lease placement including GAP, wear & tear allowance, lease end disposition, etc...)
385.00 Dealer processing fee (back office & document prep - just went up $96 - if you come in this weekend, I can probably get you the old fee)
64.50 VA Registration, titling & tags
290.66 First lease payment
1,204.63 VA new car taxes (& Local Fairfax Business tax)
$3,954.79 Total due at signing
$18,592.20 Guaranteed Residual 54%
great, good, could do better, bad ?
I assume a 4WD SE. Invoice is $30,510 and these is supposed to be a $1k lease incentive (the $1,500 incentive shown on Edmunds can't be combined with the lease). So that puts your price $392 over invoice less incentive, plus the $96 or $385 dealer fee. If they do it for $96 then you are less than $500 over invoice counting the fee, but the dealer does make $1,008 in hold back. If they write it up using the new doc fee then you are quite a bit worse off.
When I put in the sale price, residual, MF, and take off the cap cost reduction you show I get $288.98 per month, so that is close.
I would say do the deal at the low doc fee and be pretty happy, but if they insist on the higher fee then they should reduce the Pilot price some more. You could try to get a better price, there is some money over invoice there and the $1k hold back (but most dealers do not deal into hold back).
Dennis
Correct assumption, it is a 4WD? Your advice sounds good. The salesman said that he could get me the old doc fee... any other advice is greatly appreciated.
Missy
I would NOT put all that money in, roll everything into the lease except maybe tags and first month's payment. The payment will go up, but there is nearly 0% interest on it so use Honda's money. The lease deal as shown is just an example, you can put more or less down and it will use the same residual and MF and selling price.
The dealer is still making money at this price, so you can try to get another $500 or even more off the price, but that might be a hard thing to do at most dealerships.
Dennis
Go in pen and checkbook in hand and tell them if they do it for the old doc fee and knock the price down $xxx you will sign the papers right now. If they just will not drop the price, you are still getting a good deal. You could also try that old "last day of the month" trick where if they will not deal you leave and come back on the 31st (hopefully they still have the Pilot in the trim and colors you want) and see if they need to sell "just one more" to make their quota for the month.
Dennis
I am looking at a 3 year 36K mile lease on a Pilot EX-L (no NAV or RES). The dealer (Boch Honda--Norwood MA) is quoting a price of $28750, 54% residual on the MSRP and a lease price of $298 per month (plus 5% MA tax on the payment). The want a $625 destination charge, plus $525 Acquisition, first month's payment, 85 for plates and $295 as a documentation fee. I don't know what the money factor is, but at this price I assume it is very low.
What do you think and thanks.
When calculating monthly payments, be sure you post here the pre-tax amount.
Each trim can have a different residual, however. I think EX-L has a higher residual than non L, but the ones with NAV have a lower residual. Since the dealer can't change the residual, just ask for the residual on the trim line you want and that is what it is. Be sure to report back here to let everyone else know
For sure there is more room (see my posted deal from last week in the forum). It appears that there is a $1k lease incentive as well as the Edmunds listed $1.5k buy incentive. The state VP deals are at $500-600 under invoice, which lease $400-500 in profit AND all of hold back as profit. For sure, at these rates, you need to roll everything into the lease deal - bank fee, security deposit (if required) and even taxes if you want to. Don't do the deal as stated and plunk down $2k or something. At these insane low rates, borrow the money from Honda.
I am sure that is the case. If the dealer has an online inventory check out which trim line has the most choices and you would (I assume) maximize your chance at getting a better deal. I was also told that the salespeople have an extra $100 incentive on sold EX models, so it could be your salesperson was blowing smoke to get you to take an EX. My price on the VP was so low that I did not even pursue an EX figuring they would have to lose money to make the deal sweeter. We also decided we could live without the extras on the EX pack in exchange for a much lower payment. VP comes with XM, which was a plus for us.
Dennis
Do you think the SE is the best value right now? My Wife is interested in the Hyundai Veracruz but I think that the Pilot may be a better value right now. Maybe the best.. There is no Leather but otherwise the SE seems to be quite a lot of vehicle for the money at these lease rates.
36 mo.
12k miles
0 down (nothing out of pocket, just "sign & drive")
$334. / month
Any feedback? Thank you!
36 mo / 15K / 51% / .0003
Are those numbers correct? (I really wish I could do 12K since I only made it to 22K in my last 3 yr lease.)
As soon as I get some of my itemized quotes in, I will post the info here for you guys to pick apart.
Thanks!
I was at my local dealer waiting on an oil change (on 05 Pilot), so I was able to get some numbers then. They told me they were using the 1000K lease incentive, and MF was higher than the old .00014. I guess they changed programs?
This is what they gave me for a 2008 EX-L, 36m/36K:
MSRP 34080
Cap Cost 31162 (30298 + 864 Acq Fee)
Residual 53% / 18062.40
MF .00030
Base Pmt 378.65
Amt Due 850.81 (1st pmt, Doc Fee, Reg/Title)
Pretty good deal, I guess. They are a fixed pricing dealer, so maybe I could do a bit bitter with a different kind of dealer, maybe that one up in Norwood MA that someone mentioned?
Anyway, thought this info might be useful so people can see what's out there...
What my husband really wants is a Cayenne, but I think we could lease TWO Pilots for that price... LOL
Hyundai cars have come a long way and do have long warranty, we used to have one at it gave great service for the money. But they usually don't lease well because their resale value is terrible. A captive Hyundai lease may be better than a 3rd party lease, but I have not check to see if they have any specials or not.
I would pick the Pilot trim line that suits you best, make a deal around $1k under invoice (or lower), and lease at the cheap rate.
Dennis
I forgot to mention, the lease is through Honda Financing
Deal - lease of fully loaded Pilot 2008 EX L with Navigation 4WD.
Term: 36 months
Mileage: 12K year
No $0 down.
Inception fees (1st month pmt, bank fee, registration) - about $1300, taxes rolled into payments.
Monthly payment - $405 (including NY taxes)..
Am I getting good deal?
Thanks
Dennis
When I put your numbers in a lease calc I got 449/month, if I roll the first payment into that, it's 461 a month. With a 10% tax it will be $508.
I'm still surprised Honda Finance is going for an 18k miles/y lease.
Check all the numbers, just in case they are switching you to a different lessor and a longer lease.
Be sure you post back your numbers after the deal.
$29,317 Sale price
$18,592 Residual
$329 + tax monthly payment
$625 at signing (first month, doc fee, TTL)
36 months 36,000 miles
your thoughts would be appreciated
The residual is 54%, which seems correct for 4WD Pilots.
If I add the $595 bank fee to your prices using the 0.00030 MF for 4WD Pilots I get the payment stated.
How does the money due at signing breakdown (how much is the doc fee) ?
I would probably roll everything or all but the first payment into the lease since the rate is silly low.
Add the doc fee you your price and see how that compares to invoice less incentive. I would think a motivated dealer could drop the price a good bit and still be OK. If not, then it is still a good deal on a nice SUV.
Dennis
Doesn't that Pilot sticker for $33,600?
I keep telling myself I don't want a Pilot, because it's bigger than what I need, and the gas mileage isn't great... But, those prices are getting hard to pass up..
Even with 15K/yr, and tax included, that deal would put me at $370/mo...
Dirt Cheap!!
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Pick your trim line and I will get you a price from Hennessy and we can see how low they will go! Swope would not deal nearly as low on this deal, for whatever reason.
Dennis
Plus, my car is paid off..
If I got it, I'd only drive it until Thanksgiving, then my wife would get it, once her lease is up... then, I'd have to get something else..
Hmmm.. do you need running boards on a Pilot? I hate to add accessories to leases..
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Dealer says that residual on the EX-L is 53%, not 54%
$1861.02 MD tax
$362 for processing and tags
with $1000 down (plus first mo payment) they gave me a quote of $396.02 I couldn't quite replicate the number but I came close.
Seems to me like the offer is right at invoice when you factor in the $1000 lease incentive, so they have the entire holdback to move. They say that it comes with mud flaps, etc equal to a few hundred bucks so they're already into the holdback. Plus they give free oil changes. But they also have a lot of these cars on the lot - and don't they start paying interest to Honda if they sit to long, so they have an added incentive to want to move cars? Any thoughts?
I like to think that I'm prepaying gas if I were buying a hybrid ;-)
I don't think you'll need running boards, unless you need them for the kids.
I got an '05 Pilot right now and even my grandma can get in without problem.
The 2WD models are .9 inches or so closer to the ground and even my 5' 4" wife can get in and out without a problem. We test drove a 4WD and it was OK as well.
The current deals end on the 31st, but they could extend them or make them better (but I am not sure there is much room to make them better). Back when we leased my wife's 05 Accord they had Pilot cheap leases too, but I don't recall all the details - but it is pretty much a constant thing for them to runs deals to move Pilots. I think one time when I checked for a guy at work they had $2,500 in dealer money on a purchased Pilot (I think this was sometime in 07).
Dennis
36 mo.
12k miles
0 down (nothing out of pocket, just "sign & drive")
$334. / month
Any feedback? Thank you!
thanks again for your insight
BTW, i thought about the mileage too, but I drive less than 10k per year and you may as well be comfortable
Dennis
Anyway:
SE 4WD
Price: $27,993
MF: .00014
Residual: 54% or $18,592
$0.00 Cap Reduction
$298 + tax X 36 months @ 12K miles per year with approved credit
EX-L 4WD with Navigation
Price: $31,693
MF: .00014
Residual: 51% or $18,502
$0.00 Cap Reduction
$399 + tax X 36 months @ 12K miles per year with approved credit
For reference, invoice is $30,510 on the SE and $32,905 on the EX-L/NAV, so the discount is MUCH better on the SE (and I bet they have a lot more of them to choose from).
Dennis
We know how to figure payments, so just plug the prices in and use the 0.00030 and you still come out with a nice price.
Dennis
Otherwise, the selling price looks impossibly low.. don't you think?
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But, either way, I see your point...
Does the SE have some sort of package price reduction included on the sticker? If so, they sometimes use the pre-price reduction to figure the residual (which is a good thing).
regards,
kyfdx
(just slumming over here in Lease Questions)
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If you add $800 to the MSRP you see online then calculate the residual it should be spot on.
Dennis
last trip to the dealer and here's the final deal we've got.
Honda Pilot EX-L 4WD with Navigation
Terms of the lease: 36 months 12K miles
MSRP: $35,645
Invoice: $32,270
Destination Charge: $645
Adjusted MSRP: $36,290
Adjusted Invoice: $32,915
Sale Price: $31,157
Discounted Below Invoice by: $1,758 (love it!)
Residual: $18,502
Money Factor: 0.0003
Interest Rate, %: 0.72% (sweet!)
Cash at signing: $1,300 (1st month, registration, bank fee)
Monthly Payment w/o Tax: $380
NY Tax Rate: 8.375%
Monthly Payment: $412
Keep in mind that there was also limited inventory of EX-Ls, only three cars on the lot at that particular dealer. I called around and none of other dealers had dark colors (black or dark gray) in stock.