Infiniti G37 Lease Questions

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Comments

  • universalgcuniversalgc Member Posts: 2
    Dennis - Thank you very much for your contributions to this forum. Your knowledge makes all the reading I've done worthwhile. :-)

    I'm hoping you can help me a bit further. I am negotiating with dealers via email, and one rep has taken the unusual step of asking me to make him what I consider to be an lease offer I'm willing to accept, and he'll try to make it happen. I feel certain you are the one who can help me work up a specific offer to send respond with.

    Here are the details:

    2008 Infiniti G35X - Premium w/NAV, cargo net and splash guards

    MSRP - $39,475
    Invoice - $36,069


    I'm looking for a 36 month lease with as little money down as possible. I'm willing to pay some of the necessary fees up front, but I'd like to avoid as much as it makes sense to.

    I am located in South Carolina, and my tax rate is 5%. I will need to purchase new tags for the car. I'm planning on allowing for 18,000 miles per year.

    My FICO score is 800+, so I should be in good shape there.

    Current residual estimate based on current 15k per year numbers- 58% of MSRP

    The rep has asked me to be as specific as possible with my offer, so I want to make sure I include everything I need to.

    If you were in my position, what numbers would you send him in response with hopes of securing a favorable deal based on current market conditions?

    Let me know if I've left anything out that you need to answer my questions.

    I really appreciate your help!

    Thanks.

    Tony
  • jeeves23jeeves23 Member Posts: 2
    Dennis thanks alot for the info...I appreciate the in depth knowledge.
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Asking the customer to do the deal is probably just a gimmick, but since he asked I would do it with the car at invoice, roll in the $595 bank fee, then use the buy rate money factor and figure the payments. Add taxes to the payment and give him that number: $xxx per month with only first payment and TTL due at signing.

    Can you figure that or do you need help?

    Dennis
  • joe_bassjoe_bass Member Posts: 15
    Dwaynne,

    Thanks for providing the info. I was hoping I could confirm that I have built the correct formulas in my spreadsheet. I've negotiated down to invoice price (including destination, plate transfer, and all other fees). I live in Illinios and unfortunately this state charges sales tax on the purchase price (less any trade). So, my adjusted cap should be invoice, less trade equity, plus sales tax. I do not intend on putting any money down (other than trade equity).

    Here are the numbers I'm using:

    2008 G35X, Nav, Premium, Cargo net.
    MSRP 39,325
    Invoice 35,955
    Negotiated Price 35,955
    Trade-in 9,800
    Negotiated Price less Trade 26,155
    Sales Tax 6.25%
    Sales Tax 1,635

    Costs to Add (payoff on loan) 9,200
    Adjusted Cap 36,990


    % Residual 59%
    Residual 23,202
    Money Factor 0.0021

    Cap-Resid 13,788
    Depreciation Monthly 383
    Cap + Resid 60,191
    Interest 126
    Lease Payment $509.40

    Does that look right? I'm holding off on purchasing till some re-structuring shakes out at my work, but want to make sure I'm calcing this the right way before I get back to the dealers.

    Thanks.
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Dwaynne

    dwynne or Dennis, no "a" :D .

    I get $504.94 using your numbers. I did not double check the residual or the MF but I assume you did. 36 month, right?

    You forgot the $595 bank fee? If I roll that in I get a net cap of $37,585
    and a payment of $527.19 per month.

    The only thing left to pay is first month, security deposit (if required), and any tag/title/tax stuff you missed. Most Infiniti dealers have a doc or prep fee, but we will not add that in so maybe we will not have to pay it :D.

    In a spreadsheet I put in the MSRP in lets say cell A1, the net cap we put in A5, put the residual percent in A7, then in A8 put the formula =A1*A7 and that gives us the residual in dollars. Put the lease term in A9 and the MF in A10.

    In some cell, say A12 we put this to get the payment:

    =((A5-A8) / A9) + ((A5+A8) * A10)

    where it is

    =((Net_cap - residual_dollars) / term_in_months) + ((Net_cap + residual_dollars) * money_factor)

    The actual cell numbers do not matter, as long as you use the right ones in the formula for payment.

    Dennis
  • joe_bassjoe_bass Member Posts: 15
    Thanks for the reply Dennis.

    My formula is set-up the same way you described it, and I'm coming up w/ 509.40 still. Maybe my MF or Resid are different from yours. The deal I have includes doc, prep and any other misc fees in the price.

    Also, I have Tier 1 credit, so I'm not expecting to have to put down a security deposit.

    However, I didn't take into account the Bank fee. Is that from Infiniti Financial? Is it negotiable?

    Thanks again.
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    I get $509.40 if I just use invoice, the higher number was when I rolled in the bank fee.

    All leases have a "lease acquisition fee" or "bank fee" (most folks use bank fee because acquisition is harder to spell ). It is like the destination charge, it is what it is and has to be paid by the lessee. I think the lowest I have seen lately is $595 and they can be higher. Some (all?) lease banks allow the dealer to mark up the bank fee for extra profit - a lot of "high line" car dealers do this routinely. They also are allowed to mark up the money factor and again, many high line dealers do this routinely (if we allow them). They also tend to have high doc fees. So someone can lease a car from them for invoice and between the doc fee, marked up MF, and marked up bank fee, they make a tidy profit anyway.

    I don't know on IFS is credit worthiness equates to no security deposit or not, but it SEEMS to - all of their lease specials they post on their web page seem to have the deposit waived and all require tier 1 or 0 (IFS goes up to 0) credit to get that rate. With other captive banks (Honda Finance, for example) if you have leased with them before they normally waive a deposit, if not you can pay them 0.0001 more on the MF and they will waive it. If you are going to roll the deposit into the lease anyway (most folks do) then bumping the MF is normally cheaper.

    Note that IFS is one of the captive banks that lets you buy down your rate with multiple security deposits, BMW does this as well. So if you have extra cash laying around, rather than paying a large cap cost reduction you pay extra deposits and each extra up to x max (may be 7 or 9?) reduces your MF by some amount (may be 0.0001?). If your car is totalled or stolen when your insurance pays off IFS you get all your deposits back - ditto at lease end if the car is OK. If you pay a cap cost reduction you lose it.

    Dennis
  • jeffwilsonjeffwilson Member Posts: 45
    I am about to pick up a "new" G35, but my dealer just called and said it has 300 miles on it. He claims it is due to travel from the storage facility, but that's still way too many to account for just that. He offered me 2 free oil changes, which I thought was way too little to compensate me for a semi-used car. I would love to hear what people think I shoul dbe able to get. He won't come down on the lease deal, because it's just about at invoice. I would love a remote starter, but couldn't believe that they are $900!!! I wouldn't even pay whatever the cost on that is (I am sure cost is sitll over $400).

    Any suggestions? Thanks!!!

    Jeff
  • jebelljebell Member Posts: 54
    300 miles are way too many. I would tell him to install the remote at no cost to you or no deal. $400 is no big deal to them. I bet they go for it.
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Please post the same question in only one forum and not both, it keeps thing a lot neater that way and lets everyone participate in a single thread.

    I answered you in the other forum, 300 miles is not that much I would not sweat it much. The bigger question is why you would settle for an 07 at invoice when you should be able get an 08 near invoice right now. Unless the lease numbers are that much better on an 07 VS 08 I would get the newer car for the same money.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Please post the same question in only one forum and not both, it keeps thing a lot neater that way and lets everyone participate in a single thread.

    I answered you in the other forum, 300 miles is not that much I would not sweat it much. The bigger question is why you would settle for an 07 at invoice when you should be able get an 08 near invoice right now. Unless the lease numbers are that much better on an 07 VS 08 I would get the newer car for the same money.

    Dennis
  • jeffwilsonjeffwilson Member Posts: 45
    It is an '08, not an '07.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,755
    Like the previous poster said, 300 is not a big deal.

    Maybe if I was buying the car, it would bother me a hair and I'd want something to help out, but on a lease? No. Its a lease, you'll only have it for a few years, so 300 miles won't make a lick of difference in that time.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • dkim514dkim514 Member Posts: 1
    1/19/2008

    I went to a locat Infiniti Dealership and got the following lease offer for 2008 G37 Coupe (premium package + navi):

    $2,000 drive off
    $457/month for 24 months OR ~$470/month for 36 months

    Is this a good deal?

    *****************

    In late 2005, when 2006 models came out, I got my G35 Coupe (premium + sports):

    $1,000 drive off
    $500/month for 39 months
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Negotiate the price of the car first, then see where the payments come out. Do you have any idea you are paying for the car? MSRP, invoice, or what?

    If you don't know what you are paying then how can you (or anyone else) know if you are getting a good deal or not?

    Dennis
  • jeffwilsonjeffwilson Member Posts: 45
    I was able to get a remote starter ($950 retail) for $250. I am very, very happy with that as I do not have a garage. Also, the 300 mile car ended up having a chip in the paint, so I had to wait a day and ended up with a car with 60 miles. That is a much more reasonable amount.

    My concern about the 300 miles was that the dealership that they were getting it from was about 35-40 miles away. I was thinking that to put that many miles on the car that it may have been a loaner or exec car. If someone lived 5-10 miles from the dealership, they could have been using that car for months!

    I have been driving the car for 3 days now and love it. The only quibbles would be the heated seats which barely get warm after 30 minutes and the lack of a fold down rear seat. Oh yea, and the lack of the extended voice commands! i would love to tune a radio station with voice commands!

    Thanks again for everyone's opinion.

    Jeff
  • maximafanmaximafan Member Posts: 592
    So the rear seats don't fold down in the G37? I know that the rear seats fold on the 2003-2006 G35 coupes! Geesh, it always seems to be one step forward and one step back with cars these days when the next generation always comes up.
  • 604doc604doc Member Posts: 182
    Dennis, you have a lot of patience. ;)
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Congrats on the new, low mile, car :D .

    What colors and options did you end up getting?

    Dennis
  • psquaredpsquared Member Posts: 17
    Couple of questions on the deal Im working. First the price is set, got them to do 500 over invoice. On the MF they came back with a three tier rate, .00221, .00225 and .00265 showing minimum scores to meet each rate.I assume they havent pulled my credit report yet but I am a return lease preapproved with a rating well into the 700's.What is the minimum rating to get the 0/1 .0021 MF? Also they figured the RV off the MSRP, great for me but is this correct? I thought it was figured off the negotiated sale price. Thanks in advanced for the help.
  • mika01mika01 Member Posts: 12
    Residual is calculated off the MSRP price.
    I was recently shopping for 08 G35 sedan and got 2 dealers to go below the invoice.
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    740+ is tier 0, and 700-739 is tier 1. AFAIK on leases, the best MF is for tier 0 or 1, while they may offer cheaper FINANCE rates for tier 0.

    They use a "Auto Finance Bureau Score" which I think is an "auto enhanced" score which weighs auto loans and leases more heavily that other credit. So if you have a 750 with no auto credit, it might drop you out of the 700s or if you had a 690 but tons of paid off car loans and leases with no lates on them, then you would be pulled up to tier 1 or even 0.

    Residual is set by the lease bank and is the same for all tiers and is figured off of full MSRP including destination, but almost NEVER includes any dealer installed stuff - just the MSRP as shown on the factory sticker. That is why it is EXTREMELY important to negotiate a nice, discounted price. Say the residual is 60% and the car stickers for $40k, residual is then residual is $24,000 no matter what you pay. If you pay sticker, then your lease is based on on $16k of deprecation but if you bargain them to $35k, then your lease is based on $11k. Not even considering interest or taxes, that makes a huge difference in your payment.

    I posted the top tier buy rates for January earlier, just search on the forum to find them. Which car are you looking at? I am guessing a G35x at 36 months, since that is one that I posted was 0.00210 .

    If your price is $500 over invoice including and dealer or doc fees, sounds like a winner to me.

    Dennis
  • 737capt737capt Member Posts: 14
    Does Infiniti usually offer any specials to trade in my current G35 lease early? My lease is up in June but would really like to get into an 08 sooner than later.
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Not that I know of, but if they did it would be direct to you.

    You can check the current buy out price with IFS and compare that with the trade in value. If the trade is >= the current buy out then just trade it to a dealer toward a newer G. I am thinking you will not be able to get it done, since IFS leases usually have inflated residuals so will be higher buy out than real world values. I also assume you have the (now) less desirable previous design G, which is another nail in the deal coffin.

    Now, some dealer will try to fool into thinking they can do a deal for you but unless they have some help from IFS they will likely be rolling negative equity into your new "deal".

    Dennis
  • psquaredpsquared Member Posts: 17
    Thanks Dennis
    I was in tonight and had my 3 credit scores in print, he didn't hesitate on offering the .0021 MF. As you stated above, need to get that RV correct, makes a huge difference in the payment. I've been following the forum for a few weeks, excellent input here. Absolutely the most informed lease I have ever done. Might as well share the deal;
    2008 G35x Sport, Premium, Splash & Cargo net
    Red/Wheat
    MSRP 38425, Negotiated price 35664
    36/15k
    2k down, Bank fee and first payment out of pocket 1044 (3044 at signing). 449.08/mo
    Car wont be in for a week or two. Still have till 3/5 on my 05 and have to say this is the first time I have leased the same car twice. Cant say enough about the G35, my wife and I absolutely love it.
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Sounds good, but a couple of points.

    The 0.00210 may not be good when your car gets here. The current lease deals expire on the 31st and we have no idea what the deals will be for Feb. I would GUESS they will be as good or better, but don't know that for sure. AFAIK there is no "locking in" the current terms.

    Most folks always advise against putting any money into a lease to reduce the cap and payments. If the car was totalled or stolen the insurance would pay off the bank and leave you without a car and your money you put into the lease. So stick your money in the bank and go with a higher payment, it does not SOUND as good to pay more but you might be better offer down the road.

    The other option would be explore multiple security deposits. You can lower the MF by paying extra deposits. Probably does not have the same effect as paying money to reduce the cap cost, but in any case except returning a messed up car you get all your deposit money back.

    Dennis
  • soylentgreensoylentgreen Member Posts: 62
    Dennis, how does multiple security deposits work? Is it just like paying to reduce interest points on your mortgage?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,755
    Dennis, how does multiple security deposits work? Is it just like paying to reduce interest points on your mortgage?

    No, because paying point on your mortgage is a fee, not a deposit. A security deposit is returned to you at the end of the lease, as long as you don't trash the car.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Similar in that you get a better rate, different in that at lease end when you return your car in good shape (or in the event of a total loss your insurance satisfies the lease bank) you get your deposits back.

    With IFS it is a drop of 0.0001 in the MF for each extra security deposit you pay up front with a limit, I think, of 9 deposits.

    BMW and other high line captive lease banks also let you do this, but I personally never have taken them up on it. Most dealers and lease customers seem to not know this even exists.

    You can save a lot of money, but if you have the cash laying around and want to sink it into a lease vehicle it is "smarter" to do the MSD than to put that into a large cap cost reduction. You have to run the numbers to see if it is worth your trouble and loss of the use of the money or not. For sure, when allowed, sink the money into deposits and not cash down - or just keep your cash invested somewhere.

    Say you want to lease a car with an MSRP of $40k, sale price of $36k, and a residual of $24k (60%), say the lease buy rate is 0.00230 so the 36 month payment works out to $471.33 per month. If you paid 9 security deposits ($4,500 at this payment) the MF would drop to 0.0014 and the payment would drop to $417.33 per month a savings of $54.00 per month or $1,944.00 for the life of the lease. This is 43.2% (simple) interest on your money not counting sales tax. This about the return you would get if you invested the $4,500 at 12% APR for 3 years.

    In most states sales tax is levied on the payment, so if you live where the tax was 7% then your payments would be $504.33 and $446.55 per month or $57.78 per month and $2,080.80 over the life of the lease. That looks like 46.2% simple interest. This is about the return you would get if you invested the $4,500 at 12.5% for 3 years.

    Note that if you buy down the rate that may lower the payment so the security deposits gets less for each one. I ASSUME but don't know for a fact, that once you buy the rate down you pay the new security deposit amount which may mean you have to "invest" less money. They may make you stick with the original deposit amount, before the buy down rate. Also the deposit is based on the payment including tax, so you have to take that into account.

    Run the number for yourself with the price, residual, and MF on the car you intend to lease and see how the numbers crunch for you.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Don’t buy a car without checking here first. Receive huge discounts and work with very easy people to deal with. Available to anyone nationwide.

    Don't give this bozo any of your money for a "consulting fee". These forums exists for us to help each other out and we do it for FREE. You need help finding a car, knowing what a good price is, knowing what the lease buy rates are - we give you that all free here in the forums.

    I HAVE worked with a legit broker before and had good luck finding a deal on a hard to find car with the options I wanted. The broker was paid by the DEALER for finding me so the deal cost me nothing (directly) extra.

    If you have found your way to the forum you should be able to read and ask questions and work the deals for yourself. Only someone who buys from Saturn dealers and CarMax could save thousands using a broker - not counting the fees, of course.

    If he wants to advertise, let him pay Edmunds for it like the folks did to get the banner ads up to the right and top of the screen.

    Dennis
  • mika01mika01 Member Posts: 12
    Dennis,
    On one of your previous posts you mention that there is no “locking in”.
    A dealer told me to wait until at least Jan 30 because the rates can hold for 2 days with IFC.
    Can you please explain that?
    Thanks.
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Why not get the dealer to explain it, they said it?

    What is sounds like to me:

    The current deals end at the end of the month, but if that falls on the weekend (or Friday) they usually roll them around to the first Monday after the end of the month. For this month we end on Thursday, so new numbers should be out of Friday "in theory" but they may not be.

    Often there is a delay between the end of the deal period and the new rates - I think IFS wants to see what the sales numbers are, what days supply is, what other car makers sold, etc. So when the deals end on Monday, it could be a couple of days before they release the new numbers. I guess during that "no man's land" they have to still be able to lease cars and the old deals are gone and the new numbers are not out yet - so IFS lets them use the old numbers until they give them the new numbers.

    The trouble is that unless they back-date your contract I don't think they will let you use the old numbers once the new ones are out. If could be that the dealer knows they will get the new numbers this month on the 30th and could then let you know which is the better deal, sign by the 31st or wait until the 1st. It could be that if the new numbers are not out until the following Monday, you could still lease using the Jan numbers - but I would not see the point in waiting.

    As a publicly traded company they release their sales figures monthly, so the dealers have to report all sales by the end of the month (not the end of the sales cycle). So if the dealer does not report your car sold in Jan then sends in a lease contract dated the 31st, I am not sure it will fly. What they might could do is wait until the new numbers come out (say the next Monday) and if they are worse, write your contract for the 1st or 2nd to get into that grace period. If the numbers are better, then they write it for Monday.

    Ask them and get clarification, I am sure everyone would like to find a way to take a sneak peak at the Feb numbers and fall back on the Jan numbers if they are not better.

    When I said you could not lock in a rate, I meant if you were going to order a car or take one "on the way" you are subject to the rates in place you the car arrives not the rates in place when you said yes to the deal.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Did you talk to your dealer yet?

    I talked to my guy this morning and asked him and not even HE understood why you would be told to wait.

    He said IFS almost NEVER sends them the new rates early, he said he would bet that Wed or Thu of next week they would be told to carry over the Jan rates and the following Mon or Tues (4th-5th) they would get the Feb rates. It is possible they would get them on Fri, but he said he would be surprised.

    He said when he worked at a Ford store they would often get next month's deals before the current month was up, but that is not the case with IFS (and may no longer be the case at Ford).

    The only thing he could think of would be if your dealer was trying to engage in some "funny business" with your lease and was planning on pre-dating it or something.

    Heck, you never know maybe your dealer DOES know some legit loophole in the system and can share it with us?

    Dennis
  • mika01mika01 Member Posts: 12
    None of the dealers I asked know the rates in advance. I had two dealers contradicting each other on the “locking in” where one said once the application is submitted to the IFC the rates will lock in for two days and then expire. Another said the rates will hold for a month until you pick the car up. In other words if you do not pick the car up, the application expires in a month and you can reapply using the current month’s rates. I do not know if any of these are valid, but what seems logical is if you can cancel your application before you actually sign the lease, then when you apply again the new rates are in place.
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    I think they both got it wrong, this is not house financing but car leasing :D .

    You apply can get pre-approved online (if you want to) then you still have to fill out an app with the dealer and they submit it. Assuming you get approved for the buy rate at top tier you are ready to go, but there is not "cancel and reapply" or anything.

    The dealer writes up the lease contract and you sign it. If the date on the contract matches the residual and MF offers (based on the payment for the given residual and net cap cost) for that date and it is submitted in a timely manner, then IFS funds the lease and the dealer gets paid. If the dealer put the wrong residual for figures the payments wrong (no MF appears on the lease contract) - as in too low - then they don't fund the lease and the dealer has to draw up a new lease contract and get you to sign that one.

    If you miss the end of the month or end of the lease special cycle then you just missed it, even if you got approved well before the end of the cycle. What matters is that the contract reflect the terms in effect for the date on the contract. Again, since the MF does not appear on the contract and the dealer is allowed to mark the MF up, they plug the net cap, payment, and residual in to see what MF the dealer used and if it is available at time the contract is signed.

    I could get approved today and everything be fine, except I wait until the 5th of next month to sign the lease. If the dealer uses the Jan numbers and the Feb numbers are different (residual or higher MF) then my lease will not fund since those number do not work on the 5th. Now if the residual is the same and the MF is lower, they would fund it and my payment would be higher (as shown on the lease) that it should be.

    There well may be some 2 day window at the end of the lease cycle, but I think that is just until the new numbers come out. I know lots of times sales folks have bemoaned lost sales because a customer waited until the lease deal expired before deciding to pull the trigger and there was no way for them to give that customer the deal that is now dead - only the current numbers could be used.

    Are you ready to lease? If you are looking at a 6mt sedan I would wait, as the price this month is up. The x and the journey sedans have been the same net for the last two cycles. The coupe numbers just took a downturn and there is a $500/$1000 rebate on them as well. What will happen next month? I have no idea but the current journey prices are about as low as they have been in 8 months, the x is as low as it has been in 8 months, only the 6mt is up compared its low for the last 8. The G37 numbers are as low as they have been since launch and you get at least $500 off your best price. So the Jan deals are for sure good so I would go ahead and sign up now if they have the car you want - unless you are getting a 6mt sedan. If the deals are better in Feb, I would THINK they would not be better by much - since the current numbers are as good as it has been in 8 months (since I have been tracking them).

    Dennis
  • mika01mika01 Member Posts: 12
    From what I understood you do not actually cancel the contract. The idea is that the car is not delivered to you within a certain timeframe (a month maybe?). In that case the original contract expires and you sign a new one. Now that could be nonsense, but what if the car you signed for gets totaled even before arriving to the dealership?
    And you are right that I probably should not wait since I’m looking for the X model and as you said it hasn’t changed in 8 months. I looked at the sales numbers for the G sedan for December and they were lower than in the previous month. Also, since the Fed rate dropped I was hopping the MF to get lower as it did for FX and EX. I would try to visit a local dealer tomorrow and find out if there is a way to lock the rates. If not, then I’ll go with the current numbers.
    Thanks for all your comments.
  • zheka212zheka212 Member Posts: 72
    Dennis,

    terrific post outlining the details of MSD. Only small warning to include (I spent several hours on the phone with IFS and my insurance company to get a definitive answer) -- just as in the case with a cap reduction, if the car is totaled, the deposits are not refunded. You mention in the post "in the event of a total loss your insurance satisfies the lease bank" -- which is what I thought when I decided to investigate this option before signing my lease in 05.

    I know this does not make sense (the bank is satisfied), I know it's counterintuitive, but unless you can get something in writing from IFS, I would stay away from this option or at least consider the extra risk.

    Cheers,
    Eugene
  • sillyivansillyivan Member Posts: 21
    Leased this vehicle in 05 and wound up very happy with the deal and the ride. Lease is up mid-March and we're leaning toward extending for another year. Our mileage will probably come in about 2k under the contract, the just received new brake pads - gratis cuz it's under 36K - and I had to pop for 4 new tires because of an alignment issue, now resolved.

    The only negative about the car is the mpg - the all wheel drive really makes it hard to get much better than 17 around town, 20 on the highway.

    The resid is right about 20K. It's in great condition, though technically 4 yrs. old.

    Leased through IFS and was wondering if extending the contract was a simple process - and can we lower the payment because of the vehicle's age?

    Thanks for any input you can offer.

    Sullivan
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    That hurls - and makes no sense.

    If you pay a single deposit and your car is totalled does IFS take the deposit and subtract that from the current unpaid lease balance + residual and bill your insurance for the balance? I did not think they did, I assumed they bill your insurance for the amount due and once they get paid they mail you back your deposit.

    Just having one deposit lost is bad enough, but having 9 would make someone very unhappy. I can't believe other captive lease banks do this or no one would ever use MSD and they would not bother offering it.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    I would not, the new x is much nicer (IMHO) car and the rates right now are pretty good.

    AFAIK if you extend the lease it is just month to month and no renegotiating occurs. I am not sure how much, if any, extra miles you get with each month either - it could be no extra miles.

    If you really like the car, then you could buy it at the end of the lease, you may be able to re-lease it from a 3rd party bank as a used car as well. My first choice would be to see what kind of a deal you can work on a new x.

    Doesn't IFS have some kind of a lease rate discount for returning customers? That could make it even sweeter to get a new car.

    In any case, just call IFS and ask them the details of a lease extension and see what they say.

    Dennis
  • mvs1mvs1 Member Posts: 462
    During negotiating my lease for a G35XS I was told the exact same thing. You sign the buyers agreement and when you take delivery you get which ever lease rates are lower. Basically your payment will not be higher than X, but could be lower.

    Dennis also advised me of the fact you can not lock in rates.

    When we went to pick the vehicle up, we received the current lease rates(MF/Resd) which were Jan, even though we signed the agreement in late Dec. We even had a VIN, didn't matter.

    My personal opinion is that these rates often times do not dramatically change from month to month and the dealer builds their price accordingly. Why they would make a false claim I'm unsure, but I also had multiple dealerships make this same claim to me.

    So if you take delivery on Feb 2nd or 3rd and Febs rates are not out, then I would guess you sign under Jan's rates. When Feb's rates come out, they can not back date your lease agreement.

    Mike
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    When we went to pick the vehicle up, we received the current lease rates(MF/Resd) which were Jan, even though we signed the agreement in late Dec. We even had a VIN, didn't matter.

    Were the rates in effect the day you signed the same, higher, or lower than when you ordered the car (or agreed to the price and deal) ?

    Just wondering, since them charging you the current rate at time of signing is what I have been TOLD is the only option. Just wondering if anyone is real life has signed the lease documents in mid-month with a contract with the correct date, and been allowed to use the rates from the prior month? Maybe only the payment was the same as was promised?

    I think you are correct in that it is unlikely to have a huge jump up in rates for next month and most deals have a nice profit built into them, so they tell you that you are locked in to a rate but in reality you are locked into a PAYMENT. If the rates jump up a bit, they just drop the price to make the payment match what you agreed to and eat the difference.

    My guess is the more you agree to pay over invoice the more they will lock you in :D . If you are paying a VPP price or straight invoice or something (including dealer fees) then they may not be a generous to promise you anything in the future.

    Dennis
  • mvs1mvs1 Member Posts: 462
    Dennis,

    We signed the buyer's agreement or order in late Dec and received the payment and quote generated from the .00190 MF, 56% residual, 36month, 15,000 miles, I'm going off memory so these could be slightly off. We took delivery in mid Jan. The MF was .00210 and residual was 58% same term, mileage.

    If you recall I had doubts since the Jan numbers I received were not what was posted in several forums.

    My deal did not get kicked back from IFS yet, my assumption is it would have already, and overall was strange since my card was not charged the initial deposit amount. I won't be calling them to ask to pay this, if I don't get charged this, the deal becomes $11 under published invoice.
  • shuynhshuynh Member Posts: 1
    I’ve been reading up on the recent posts about leasing a G sedan since I am in the market for one. As a newbie to the leasing concept, I’ve got lots to learn. I was studying the formulas posted to figure out the base monthly payment and was wondering how the “down payment” or “initial cash payment” comes into play. Is the amount applied to the cap cost? This is the most recent offer I’ve had from a dealer: $3000 down/$400 a month/12K miles/2 years on a base model I think priced at $31,600. Is this reasonable?? Any help and advice is greatly appreciated.

    Steph
  • sillyivansillyivan Member Posts: 21
    Thanks for the feedback, Dennis. I'll give IFS a call tomorrow and get the additional info re any extra mileage they will or won't grant. Drove an 08 G35 in December during a service visit and was quite impressed. If I do opt for a new 35, think it'll be sans the all wheel drive - since I live in SoCal and this last week has been one of the few times it's come in handy.

    Happen to know what the current money factor is on a new G35 sedan?

    Sullivan
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    I posted this before but the mods deleted it due to the large image, so I will post w/o the image, only the link to the image.

    You normally would not sign the lease contract until you take delivery of the car. You might put a deposit down and negotiate the price before the car comes in, but the lease contract is not (normally) signed until you take delivery. It expires in xx months (your lease term) from when you sign and date it, so signing a contract before the car arrives mean you pay for less months than you should.

    When the dealer sends the contract in to IFS they make sure the numbers are correct based on the date on the contract. If they used the wrong residual they kick it back, if the MF figures too low they kick it back. If the MF figures higher then the lease is funded and the dealer kicks a check for the extra interest you signed for.

    Did you see my chart? I plugged in 3 sedans - a journey, a 6mt, and a x all with just premium and all "sold" at $500 over invoice along with 2 G37 coupes (journey and 6mt both with premium sold at $500 over invoice) and figured the payments on each from June (when I started looking for a G) until Jan. It is posted earlier in the month, but here it is again:

    Link to the payment chart image

    The x payment is as low as it has been since June, the journey (sedan) is nearly as low as it has been in that time (less than $1 per month more than the June 07 payment), the 6mt is $11 more than it was 8 months ago.

    Sure it COULD be better, but using the combination of MF and residual the late Dec and Jan numbers for the x produce the lowest net payment since last June. Will the numbers be lower for Feb? I don't know. We will not know the Jan sales numbers until it is (likely) too late for you to lease at the Jan rates. If they DO release sales figures Friday and don't change the deals until Monday, then you could guess at what they might do based on x sales for Jan.

    The FED rate is meaningless to a captive bank, they set the rates to move cars or when they are moving to maximize profits. The new G37 is releases and the rate is 0.00275 which is a lot higher than a 3rd party bank. Sales must be slow, because they have a $500/$1000 customer rebate on them now and dropped the MF quite a bit (not the cheaper payment on the chart). Heck, I just leased my wife a Honda Pilot and the rate was 0.00014 (0.33%), do they think THAT MF has anything to do with a prime rate or anything the FED does? Nope, Honda needs to move them out so have big dealer incentives and insanely cheap leases.

    When the new x-over arrived (EX) IFS had no help on it, the leases were high. They sign up the "got to have it first" folks for maximum profit, then when they think sales are slowing the sweeten the deals to try to drive more sales. If that does not work, they sweeten them even more. My dealer said he expects a BIG push from Infiniti on the EX soon - they are sending him 15 or more in the next few weeks and over 50 in the next few months. So he expects from cheap lease deals soon (or he may have a fleet of unsold EXs in his lot).

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Let us know when IFS says. I have never extended a lease, but it is supposed to be month to month at the same payment - but I always wondered about the allowed miles and the residual. Do those change with an extension or not?

    I did have an extension given to me on my C5 'vette. The lease bank did not want me to turn it in and knew I was trying to selling it, so they have me a couple of extra weeks to find a buyer (I did) so they did not have to take it back.

    The sedan numbers for Jan are poster in the forum here .

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    I posted the car info and some pix here in the price paid forum but I thought I would post the lease part here.

    The selling price was $39,628.19 (VPP plan C) less the $500 in customer cash made my price $39,128.19. Then add in the $595 bank fee to get a net cap cost of $39,723.19. The 39 month/10k mile per year residual is $26,768.50 (62%) and the MF is 0.00236 so the base payment is $489.09 per month. Security deposit was waived.

    At delivery I paid the first payment plus local tax ($80) plus tax on the $500 rebate at signing. There was NO ($0) doc wee or any other fees on the deal, that was it. They will send me the MSO/MCO and a limited power of attorney so I can title and tag the car myself here at home - and pay those fees direct to the DMV at that time. I assume if I lived where the dealership was located I could have paid them the fees and had them do it for me, but I didn't ask. I have an existing plate I want to transfer to the new car and wanted to do it myself anyway. I have done this with many other out of town or state lease deals.

    The Harper Infiniti F&I guy had all my paperwork printed out when I got there and the numbers matched mine to the penny. So it was just a quick glance to check them and sign away. A very easy and pleasant experience.

    SOME folks are reporting lower than VPP prices, but I had a VPP claim code and needed to find the right car. The dealer that had the car in stock would honor the VPP price but charges $500 for a doc fee. I may have negotiated a lower price but once the fee is added back I would don't think I would have saved much, if anything. If I lived where there were lots of Infiniti dealers I probably would have had an easier time finding a 6mt coupe and could have bounced deals around between the dealers to get the best price.

    I am happy with the deal and love the car :D .

    Dennis
  • jebelljebell Member Posts: 54
    Are the same numbers posted in the lexus rx350 forum somewhere? I have been searching and unable to find them.
    Thanks.
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    I have not seen them, sorry. You can simply ask the dealer what the rates are and if they are the "Buy rates" or do they mark them up. Most I have found will give you and honest answer. You can also ask in the forum over at leasecompare.com and see if Tarry has those.

    Dennis
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