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Comments
What are your city driving habits like?
Do you have multiple stops between your home and destination?
Do you glide to stops or keep on the accelerator until just before you are forced to brake?
Do you rev the engine above 2000 RPM after a stop or slowly gain speed?
Do you keep a constant speed when you are between stops or do you vary it significantly by changing pressure on the gas?
Do your idle your car after getting in or before getting out at source/destination?
Do you use a/c or drive with the windows open?
Have you checked the pressure in the tires?
All of these things add up to whether or not you can get the advertised MPG. A lot of variables but things to check/consider besides the computer/car itself.
Driving style and habits make an enormous difference in city/stop-n-go conditions. Hard starts, tailgating, hard braking...all make for ugly mileage. Accelerating reasonably, coasting where/when possible, and laying back a bit from the car in front of you, all make a ton of difference. Aggressive city driving just burns more gas and eats more brakes.
Also, though this certainly won't make enough difference to get you to a mileage you like from the number you quoted, you will eventually see a few % better mileage once the engine is well broken in and 'loosened up' a bit.
"Average mph is 16"
"multiple stops"
For me, I drive 2.3 miles to work, then home for lunch then back and back home = 9.2 miles per day. The roads are 25 and 30 mph. 2 Stop signs and 1 stop light between total. That's why my agerage MPH has been 22 with 26.0 MPG in about 150 miles since I got the car 2 weeks ago. I did have a few other trips around town at 35/40 mph and a couple short interstate runs at 55mph (3 miles or less) that helped bring up my mph.
But if my average MPH is 22 and MPG is 26, and your MPH is 16, I'm not at all surprised that you are getting 19 MPG @ 16 MPH.
For you (multiple stops, slow mph, small town), perhaps a hybrid (a good one like the Prius) would be better for you if you are really are concerned about city MPG.
Go take a trip at 55-60 mph, resetting the trip computer and verify you're getting 33 or so highway. If so, your car is really fine, it's just your situation that won't give you the milage you are after unless you switch to hybrid.
Your input has been very helpful, and I appreciate your taking the time to respond.
The car isn't even warmed up within one mile. Plus you are accelerating from a complete stop (assuming you actually stop at stop signs) 4 times within that mile (5 times if you have to stop for the trafic light, plus idling time while stopped at the light).
I think you're doing quite well to get 19mpg considering the type of driving you do.
When the production electric cars or plug-in-hybrids hit the market, sign yourself up. Tailor-made for driving pattern like yours.
Any helpful suggestions?
I had half a tank left exactly, accd to the gauge. It filled about 6.5 gallons then shut off. Though I won't routinely do it, I managed to squeeze a total of 9.33 gallons into the tank (2.8 more than the default stop on the pump!).
I still didn't overfill it, nothing was sitting at the cap when I finished, but it had to be close. I wanted to know how many gallons it took to get to 50% on the gauge.
I had reset all of the computer before driving it off the lot 18 days ago. Overall my numbers before filling today were: 22 MPH, 25.8 MPG, 155 range left in tank with 168.4 miles driven since taking delivery of the car with the dealers "full tank". (The total milage on the car is now 539.)
After filling up and resetting the computer again, it reported 309 miles left (that must assume something like 22 MPG @ 14 Gallons?). I drove ~1 mile to work, 2.3 home, 2.3 back to work, 2.3 back home, (all 25 to 30 MPH as before), my numbers currently reported are the following:
23 MPH, 28.4 MPG, 301 range left in tank.
Since I filled the tank with more gas than the dealer probably filled it with, I got horrible self-calculated gas milage -- 168.4/9.33 = 18.0 MPG, vs if I go with where the pump stopped initially 168.4/6.5 = 25.9 which is much closer to the computer estimate before refill.
Of course I realize that with only 1 fill up, 168 total calculated miles, and a significant difference in overfilling, this number is not too accurate either way and will take many more fill ups to average this out. But I wanted to post this to aid others like hyundaihoney for comparison purposes.
Will post more after a few more miles driven for this route to see if it holds. I actually seem to be getting better milage with my home/work area alone than including weekends where I hit the interstate for 1-3 miles, then deal with crowded parking lots and busy streets/lights.
Will be testing 70 mph highway travel this weekend for a 100 mile round trip. Unfortunately it's an open access road running through a few small towns so a few slow downs to 30 during it.
You are estimating the crap out of everything, using the gas guage to tell you how much gas is left when you don't even know how much you started with, and then over filling your gas tank.
9.33 gallons for a 14 gallon tank (regardless of guage approximation), I'd say that was in the range of a 2-2.5 gallon overfill.
I realize the on board computer is pretty accurate but doing your own measurements helps confirm. As I mentioned, I know that due to the overfill and low # of miles, the own-computed numbers are NOT accurate. But it still provides a good comparison when others, like Hyundaihoney are only seeing 19 out of their trip computer and are concerned the car doesn't get the 25 MPG city that it is claimed to get.
I have confirmed that per computer, and per a 'regular' fill (not overfill) that indeed it does get 25 MPG city if you can maintain > 20 MPH average with at least 2 mile trip segments. The other poster was stating closer to 15 MPH with a much lower MPG, which makes sense and is why they're not getting advertized.
Just trying to post enough details for others that are concerned about all the numbers. After I do one long - all - interstate trip and verify highway miles, I will be good and not do detailed analysis until like a year later just to see if it goes up or down siginificantly indicating a problem if the onboard calculator doesn't report the same.
van
1. Heavy city traffic, lots of stop-and-go driving over short distances and lots of idling, with low temperatures (into the 20s regularly), about 23 mpg average.
2. Long trip (about 450 miles) on the interstate, only a couple of stops, about 65 mpg average speed, temperatures in 40s-50s, about 35 mpg average.
3. Mix of city, suburban, and urban freeway driving, short-to-medium trips, temperatures 40s-70s, about 28 mpg average.
So the overall average is around 28.7 mpg. That is interesting in terms of what my car has delivered over that period of time, but not from the standpoint of what it can do under different conditions. I think both viewpoints are useful.
I realize all of this about averages. That's why I said *I realize* this is not an accurate hand-calculated estimate in my original post, and stated that. I guess I don't understand what was so controversial about the details I posted.
I posted what I knew, stating that with 1 tank, overfilled vs where it stopped, and the computer amount -- all to help Hyundaihoney in a similar comparison. It was all the data I had to work with so far.
I know all about needing to take multiple tanks, thousands of miles if you want to compare on your own calculations, or just use the built in computer as the guide.
I was trying to help another poster by giving the computer reported results in only 2x a long of a trip as hers, not state that my own fillup calc was accurate by any means.
I definitely know consistently, day for day, the built in computer shows that my short trip to work averages 27 MPG, on a per day basis, or on a weekly average or on the entire tank average. This is significantly more than hyundaihoney gets and even more than I expected. I just happen to have a low traffic/low turns/low stop trip to work.
Driving around to stores and across town today to another site for a off-campus meeting, I found my computer reported MPG dropped significantly due to many more stops, slow downs for turners, driving through parking lots, etc..
It (the computer calculations) definitely helps you plan the trips better and anticipate driving patterns. Something the per-tank calculations can't give you.
My guess is that Hyundaihoney is forgetting about how many actual pauses occur in her trip, that is causing it to drop to 19 mpg vs my 26-27 (and the EPA rated 25). It's not actual stop signs and stop lights... it's the turners, it's the parking lots and pauses to leave a parking lot counting as additional stops that just kill in town driving.
van
van
I would estimate 60% city and 40% highway driving.
Is this a good mileage?
Car has (at end of tankfull) 2000 miles, and I did intentionally drive very gas-friendly on the DC trip (set cruise at about 62, regardless of 55mph limit or 65 limit, avoided lots of unnecessary acceleration, etc) just to see what the car is capable of... Don't know if I can drive this mellow all the time, but doing so I was able to squeeze right around 40mpg highway from the car. Trip computer said 39.7 for the overall tank, and I filled 12.04 gal into the car with 481 miles since previous fillup (computes to 39.9) so gas used correlated pretty well with the computer.
The car could probably do even a bit better if Hyundai could conjure up a 6-speed box; engine RPM in 5th, even at my mellow cruise speed, is ballpark 2500. Squeeze one more cog in there, and drop engine speed to 2000-ish at 60-65mph, and it might do even a bit better.
I'll keep everyone updated with overall figures after another thousand miles or so.
This kind of fits with my sense of what 'makes sense' (straight line power to wheels through a hard clutch should be intrinsically more efficient than the torque converter arrangement, at least a bit so), and also fits with the surprisingly good mileage I've been seeing from my 08 SE 5-speed. It doesn't, however, fit with the official EPA mileage figures. For most cars I was looking at when buying my Elantra, the EPA estimates were virtually identical between manual and auto versions of a given car. On the Elantra, the official estimates actually penalize (however slightly) the manual.
Does anyone with any knowledge of the EPA test cycles know why the seeming disconnect? Does the test spec for a manual car assume/require some sort of aggressive (or maybe just crappy) gear selection and/or shift timing? :confuse:
I didn't get the manual for mileage - I assumed, based on the new EPA numbers, that there was no mileage benefit. (But if there is one, and I'm starting to suspect there is, I'll certainly take it!) I just wanted it because I like driving them; it's a more active, participatory experience, and I like it better that way.
Here is the average MPG's these people have gotten... I am #18
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=mpgData&vehicleID=23572&browser=tru- e&details=on
Here is my data over 4 fill ups.
- I compute gas mileage using the how much the odometer changes and divide that by how many gallons I can fill it to (to reflect how much fuel was used)
- I reset the trip meter at each fill up, so I can use its mpg number as a 2nd opinion. (the trip meter has never matched my manual calculations)
- I determine stop and go / hwy driving percentage via time spent in the car, not via mileage.
- My weekday drive is mainly through city streets about 7 - 9 (15 minutes a day?) miles round trip.
- Weekends is when I do the most hwy driving, but heck that could be only 14 minutes (to go 15 miles) total with at least 1 hour of varied city driving. So I am easily 90% stop/go driving most of the time, which surprised me.
- I drive consciously to save gas except when on the fwy I do hit 75 sometimes.
- Trip computer usually says my avg speed is 25mph (this counts idling and stops where my speed is zero)
- Variables: I don't always use the same gas stations. I would guess not all gas stations are calibrated the same so fill-up numbers can vary...though I have no idea how much.
I did expect this car--maybe naively-- to get better MPG's than my Geo Prizm, but I guess that is a pretty tall order for a 2.0 liter PZEV engine even with CVVT. The Prizm was 1.6 liter 112hp. I got 300 miles between fill-ups for most of its life and it only has a 12.5 gallon tank.
You cannot beat a manual for mpg. The only exception is (as suggested) if the gears are not tall enough, then the automatic will eventually "catch up" if the speeds get high enough.
I suspect the first tank from the dealer was 89 octane, 10% ethanol which usually is the same price or a penny or so cheaper and the most "common" around here. I was seeing 27 MPG from the computer for my in-town driving.
On my fillup, I chose 87 octane, 0% ethanol, knowing it should give slightly better MPG without the alcohol in it.
And guess what--it does. Same driving habits, same trip, and I'm seeing it around 29.5 MPG for in-town driving vs. 27 before.
My wife drives it harder than I about 3 times a week for only a couple mile trip to the store.. not coasting to stops, above the speed limit and the MPG drops by 0.3 each time she uses it, but then I can bring it right back up by my more careful drive to work to the 29.5 area again.
A 100 (50 each way) mile trip on open access road resulted in appx 35 MPG with a strong cross wind. That included multiple slowdowns for small towns (30 mph vs crusing of 60 ish).
So only half-way through my second tank, I'm very happy with a ~29 city and ~35 MPG, at least what the computer is reporting. We'll see what a hand calculated amount is on the next fillup.
Will take it on a longer trip in a month that will really help show/isolate highway milage.
Yeah, I'm finding that out.
It seems to me that the EPA numbers do a disservice to people (and to their intended mission of reducing fuel usage/emissions) by not letting them know they might get better mileage.
I realize that not too many people would buy a manual anyway, but some who might buy one if they knew the mileage difference might not if they thought there was no point.
Heck, the one salesman I worked with practically tried to talk me out of getting a manual (I think because they didn't have but one of them in inventory). I told him what I was looking for (SE, manual, X, Y or Z color) and literally the first words out of his mouth were "you know the manual doesn't do any better on gas, right?". lol I say, "Yeah, I know, I just want one." Undeterred, he next tells me how I'm killing my resale options by getting the manual. Yeah, I know...I just want one. :P
So, I didn't know I was going to do better mileage-wise, but I'll sure take it. Getting ready to fill up later today, and the puter shows 38.2 on this tank (no trip longer than my 25 mile commute to work). It has been pretty much spot-on so far, so I bet it's pretty close this time too.
The type of gas does make a difference, like staying away from ethanol is a good idea if the price is similar.
I recorded 37-39 mpg on the hwy doing 70mph using full synthetic oil and 33 lb of tire pressure with my 5 spd.
Using reg oil and factory tire pressure I got 34-35 mpg at 70 mph.
On my next 800 mile round trip I'll try using premium gas as long as it's not more than 15 cents above reg to check the improvement.
It should do better as the eng has a 10.3:1 compression ratio. Might even slow down to 65 to get firmly into the 40+ mpg area....lol
I wonder what the compression ratio is on the new Genesis coupe V-6 eng. Runs on reg or prem, with a slight HP boost on premium.
On another note. I just read the Car & Driver long term 40K mile test of the 07 Nissan Altima.
The xenon headlamp replacement costs $656.....ouch
Oil filter $9.00
Wheel $478
Tire $104
Note to self, never buy a car with xenon headlights...lol
PS, the a/c compressor went out at a cost of $937 after the 36K mile warranty expired.....
The previous tank was almost all in town on 4-10 mile trips. Staying at the speed limit (25, 30, & 40, depending on the street), the computer reported 24.7 MPG.
Not many data points, but encouraging.
699 miles off approx 23.3 gallons on my last 2 fills. Thats a MPG of straight 30.0. Wow much better than the 24's I was getting.
I live in South CA so its pretty warm throughout the day. But also what helped was coasting to the red signals and being soft on pedal within the city. For both my last fills highway was around 70% and city 30%.
Looking forward to break the 30.0 barrier now.
On my first full tank of gas with the Elantra I got 34 MPG driving the same route. I had heavy use of A/C and did 75-80mpg. It's been cooler so I'll see how it goes with out heavy A/C use and I'm driving a little slower this week to see if my MPG improves significantly. So far I'm impressed with the car.
I plan on using the car for a road trip later in July, I will drive a bit more conservatively and see if I can get 40!
BTW, flew into Las Vegas for a meeting, rented a mid-sized car.....They told me to pick out a car in the mid-sized row and the Elantra was there. Used to think it was a compact.....!
See how your computer does after you fill and drive it. Your manual calculations and the computer should be within .1 mpg due to rounding in the computer.
Sarah
Aren't you the one who had a tranny fail on their new Hyundai product a few months ago? Did they offer you an Elantra so you'd be quiet about it? Just kidding.
Please refresh me memory and give all the pertinent details in 30 words or less. You have twenty seconds Bob...GO!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I do love the car, but MPG was one of my biggest criteria in choosing it.
Anyone have any advice? Turned out my model was one brought in from Korea if that makes a difference.
But in the mean time, the easiest thing to check is your tire pressure. If you go through these forums you'll find many, many entries for owners of all makes who found the tire pressure on their newly delivered cars was off by several PSI. Go with the pressure that's on the driver's door frame label. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/maintain.shtml
BTW, using the car's estimate range is not the best way to estimate fuel economy. The range estimations are generally based on recent driving, not necessarily the entire tank. For instance, in my car it's based on the last 10 minutes of driving. I've seen post-fillup ranges from 270 to 430 miles.
You can use the car's trip computer to estimate mileage. It will be more accurate than making an estimate based off the distance-to-empty but TCs are still often off by a few percent.
The absolute best, guaranteed accurate way to measure fuel economy is to note the odometer reading (or reset the trip meter) when you fill up, drive the tank, and fill up again. Take the odo/trip meter reading after the second fillup, subtract the reading from the first fillup, and divide by the number of gallons you just added.
If you have a smartphone of any make, there's "an app for that". Personally, as I track car expenses anyway I use a simple Excel spreadsheet. When I gas up I note the odo reading on the receipt. When I get home I enter the reading, gallons, and overall cost and my spreadsheet gives me MPG, $/mile, and a bunch of other stats.