Honda Civic Coupe / Civic Si 2006+

bigal3

If you know anything about aerodynamic, you will know that the shape (aerodynamic) behind the rear windsheld is very different for hatch-back vs coupe/sedan.

For hatchbacks, air turbulance will create right behind the rear windshield (down the hatch-door) while sedan/coupe is behind the car trunk.

Simply put it, Coupe is just a 2 door sedan. If a sedan doen't need rear windshield wipers, coupe doesn't need rear windshield wipers.

bigal3

...and I am sending my BMW coupe back too because it does not have a rear wiper.

bigal3

The BMW M3 coupes doesn't have rear windshield wipers, they MUST be cheap & cutting cost too.

The side windows of my car can get dirty pretty easily too (e.g. snow & salt, bird droppings, when it is cold & misty wet)....they should put windshield wipers on all my side windows too.

I agree that NHTSA should make it a safety issue so it becomes standard to put windshield wipers in every window (including all side windows)on all cars imported to the us.

bigal3

Yes, it is very bad for Honda not to put a back up camera in their sub-compact.

If my SUV have back up camera, it is only logical for my bicycle to have a back up camera too.

strumelia

>

Some PEOPLE should have back up cameras on their rear ends.

Strumelia

JBaumgart

I didn't say it was BAD for the Civic to not have a back up camera, just that it would be nice to have it as an option. It would be very easy and inexpensive to add it in conjunction with navigation - the screen is already there. The Prius has 8 option packages, and you can add a back up monitor to 7 of the 8.

P.S. By the way you CAN mount a portable GPS to your bicycle. But unless you are very heavy or can't turn your neck when you are backing up, adding a back up camera wouldn't be "logical".

bigal3

LOL....I agree with you. Just like what "only1harry" told you :

Strumelia: I can see you never had a "back up camera on your rear end". Once you have it, you realize how helpful it is and look for it on the next car you get. If noone has any use for it then why do half the rear end out there have it? and why would the manufacturers spend the $$ to install them?

I can't agree with him more...LOL

rorr

"For hatchbacks, air turbulance will create right behind the rear windshield (down the hatch-door) while sedan/coupe is behind the car trunk."

You appear to be making some mighty big assumptions regarding the profile of all hatchbacks vs. the profile of all coupes.

Example - the Mazda6 sedan has no rear wiper. The Mazda6 hatchback DOES have a rear wiper. Both the Mazda6 sedan and the Mazda6 hatchback have the SAME profile (angle of the back glass / length of the rear deck) and (presumably) very similar aerodynamics. Therefore, the answer regarding the presence of a rear wiper is not ALWAYS purely an aerodynamics issue.

From looking at pictures of the new Civic Coupe (not the most scientific approach I'll admit), it certainly appears to me as though the angle of the rear glass is as severe as many traditional hatchbacks which do have rear wipers. It also appears as though the angle of the rear glass is much more severe than a traditional sedan/coupe.

Would it be fair to say that IF the aerodynamics of a car created turbulance in the vicinity of the back glass, this car would be a valid candidate for a rear wiper, whether it is a hatchback or not?

midnightcowboy

It is a matter of aerodynamics. Normally if you have a hatchback or a station wagon because of turbulence there is not air flow past the rear window and it doesn't clear rain. On a sedan or a coupe there is a trunk and it moves airflow over the back window and it removes rain and therefore no rear wiper is needed.

A rear wiper is not designed to clear accumluated snow or ice. That is a completely different story and they should be cleared independently.

A rear window wiper has nothing to do with "style". It is to provide a clear rear window if airflow becuase of shape will not do the job. I suppose you have seen some station wagons ans SUVs with a vertical rear window and a wind deflector at the top of the windos on the roof. It deflects some of the air down to clear the window.

Hope this clears up all the confusion.

MidCow

rorr

My point was that some vehicles (again, the Mazda6 sedan and hatchback come to mind) have the EXACT SAME PROFILE, yet the hatchback has the wiper and the sedan does not. Have you looked at the Mazda6 sedan and hatchback? From the rear they are IDENTICAL; the ONLY way I can tell them apart is the fact that the hatchback has a rear wiper.

Yes, I'm aware that some SUV's have a wind deflector at the top of the glass to help clear the rear window. My wife's old 4runner had such a deflector. Operation was iffy at best; despite this wind deflector, we still accumulated a large amount of dust/water on the back glass and we were both thankful that we had a rear wiper.

I've never said word one about accumulated ice/snow. Guess what, front wipers aren't designed for this either. Does this mean we don't need front wipers?

My point about 'style' was my feeling that buyers of coupes may be more interested in 'style' than buyers of hatchbacks and may NOT WANT a rear wiper on their coupe because it clutters up the lines of the car. I can tell you that I've driven a number of coupes which did a HORRIBLE job of letting aerodynamics keep the back glass clear.

bigal3

Aerodynamic is not about angle of the window, it is about air flow around the window without causing much air turbulance.

Hatchback has a "chop-off" rear which will create air turbulance starting from the back windshield. Coupe has a extended car trunk on the back & air will flow down the back windshield & continue to flow to the back trunk before finally leave the car behind the trunk....therefore air turbulance occur behind the trunk (not the back windshield).

bigal3

I don't know why you still drive "a number of coupes" when you are so very pissed-off with them for having no back windshield wipers....& they did such a HORRIBLE job of keeping your back glass clear.

If you like cars with back windshield wipers, just insist on driving hatchback & SUV...and boycott those without them.

Since you are such obsessive about having windshield wipers to keep your glass clear, you should add windshield wipers to your side windows because they can get quite dirty too.

earth

I'm waiting for the day when they come out with wind shield wipers for my sun glasses

rorr

Actually, every one of my personal vehicles has been a hatchback since my first '77 Celica liftback. Every one of those had a rear wiper (with the exception of my '93 Mustang LX 5.0). That Mustang desperately needed a rear wiper. My wife has had a 4runner and now an Ody - both have had rear wipers.

I occasionally have the occasion to drive cars which I don't own (ie. rentals). Some of these have been (surprise!) coupes. On EVERY ONE, aerodynamics failed to keep the rear glass even remotely clear. And on every car I've had, aero DOES keep the side windows clear enough.

Just out of curiousity, how many vehicles have you had WITH a rear wiper?

midnightcowboy

Rorr said:

"My point was that some vehicles (again, the Mazda6 sedan and hatchback come to mind) have the EXACT SAME PROFILE"

They don't have the same profile, the sedan has a trunk , kind of like the letter "L". The hatchback is more like an "I" or in some cases a "\" That is not the same as a trunk.

Also look at Big Al's explanation in message #120. It is not just the angle of the window glass as you are implying.

LOL,

MidCow

mldj98

Can we PLEASE give this topic a rest....if you want a car with a rear windshield wiper than buy one.....the civic does not have it....so just move on!

rorr

"I am glad you are comparing Mazda6 hatchcack with Mazda6 SEDAN (& not coupe). Your question is : why Mazda6 SEDAN doesn't have back wipers?"

Umm, I bring up the Mazda6 because it is an example where aerodynamics have nothing to do with whether or not a specific vehicle was equipped with a rear wiper. All I was pointing out was that the two vehicles have the exact same profile, yet one has the wiper and the other doesn't. Obviously, there must be a different reason to place the rear wiper. And I brought up the Mazda6 SEDAN instead of the coupe because.......there's no such thing as a Mazda6 coupe. But since you seem to like lumping the coupes in with the sedans, I didn't think this would confuse you. It appears as though I was mistaken.

Personally, I think wipers are placed on hatchbacks and NOT placed on coupes/sedans simply because buyers are conditioned to EXPECT them on hatchbacks and to NOT expect them on coupes/sedans. And perhaps coupe/sedan owners are simply used to a hazy view out the rear of their vehicle.

midnightcowboy

mld98

Hey good idea! what is the MSRP price of a Civic Si ? When will they be available? What will dealers charge? How available will they be?

See, the way to move off an arcane topic, such as "to have or not have rear windshield wipers" is to provide some new information.

How about some new tidbits to move us along

Cheers,

MidCow

P.S.- Trying to remember cars that I had that had a rear windshield wiper: Starfire, GL1500, two CRXs, 280 ZX turbo 2+2, GSR. All others were sedans or coupes (no trucks station wagons or SUVs) that did not have because they did not require RWW.

mldj98

Let's see.....

Prices.....you will pay full MSRP...plus...plus...plus
Won't be quite as popular as the sedan....6 speeds not everyone's cup of tea....plus all colors have the black interior.....
When...you ask...how about mid-December to mid-January....
Price....shot in the dark....around $21K (non-navi)....
Will it sell....of course it will!!!

Is that enough to change the subject from windshield wipers?
Geeeezzzzzz!!!! )
Happy motoring!!!

rorr

What I really want to know is.....the volume of the washer fluid tank. :P

rorr

Are we discussing the cars or participants?

midnightcowboy

Mjdj98 -

Okay MSRP but want a little less. Original price
6-speed Nirvana to me Only a manual man; have a 2005 6-speed Accord Coupe ( plan to keep, by the way)

Black interior : absolutely the best!

Mid-Dec Mid-January ( sounds about right I heard first avail 12/1) Got approval to buy a commuter car from the boss in April quote " what about a Civic Si, does it come in red ?"

Price : speculation was under $20K. If so it will be $19,999 But I suspect there was a little Price creep and you $21k is probably closer to actual price.

Will it sell : YES I am buying one!

H'mm what was that other subject .....

Cheers,

MidCow

P.S. _ I think to top it off it needs a Tanabe CAT-Bback.

mldj98

Oh your story sounds so familiar....
After 22 years of service (Go Navy....Beat Army!)....am thinking about getting myself a little gift....no reason...just because......have not approached the Fleet Admiral yet...just bought an 06 Accord EX-V6 Auto ( gonna keep it as well.....but would like a little rocket for the kid in me! Oh...did I mention the Admiral can't drive a stick!!!!!!
So why buy a Civic Si? Why Not??????

only1harry

rear wiper should not be used for snow/ice? Then that means the front wipers were not designed to clear light snow or ice from your windshield either?

I agree with BigAl3. My Integra is not straight or flat in the back. It has the same angle (called "rake") or a more severe angle than the '06 Coupe, but yet, it has rear wiper!
When the '97 Integra Type-R hit the showrooms in the US for the first time in March '97, it didn't have a rear wiper. All the '97 Type-R owners complained about it saying that all other Integras had it, and the weight savings of 2 pounds of the rear wiper and motor (which is pretty small) would not hurt performance. Guess what? The '98 models came with a rear wiper as did '00-01 Type-Rs (there were no Type-R's in '99). Not only that, the price didn't go up from '97 to '98. I think it was purely a cost savings scheme but they used it as an excuse saying Type-R's were supposed to be light with few accessories. Or did they figure noone would drive a Type-R in the rain?

normj

had to switch from 99 si to 06 lx (not by choice!)Nice elegant design. Little cheap looking interior. too much glitz, fortunately, you can dim it enough. stereo and climate controls look nice and acssible. steering wheel is is tacky n comaprison to the 99 si, so is the shifter.

now to the performace, the shifting is smoother and the clutch is like butter! suspension is tighter than the 99 si. however the pick and peppnessi sbetter in the 99 si on all gears. I have to say the performance and pick up in the 5th gear leaves a lot to be desired in the 06 lx. The 99 si would still move in the 5ht gear even when i was at 80 mph already. Haveb't ha da chance to try that out yet. its about a day old. We'll after 10 k miles....

midnightcowboy

My Admiral can drive a stick A long, long time ago when we were dating I helped her buy an 5-speed Audi LS100. I taught her to drive a stick; Very good move!!!

Now I am looking at a "commuter" car. 5-speed Insight high gas mileage, Prius high gas mileage but only CVT slush. An the Admiral says" you wouldn't be happy with the performance, what about a Civic Si Does it come in bright red?" YES, YES, YES

Cheers,

MidCow

P.S. - I am not sure what demographics they were targeting the Civic Si for, but I can assure you it wasn't for a ole' muscle car era guy like me. My first new car was a 1970 4-speed Oldsmobile 442

midnightcowboy

normj said:

"had to switch from 99 si to 06 lx (not by choice!)"

ARRG! you couldn't wait for a 06 Si ??

At least you got a manual shift. Concerniong pickup , you are probably getting a lot beeter mileage at a lot lower rpm in the 06 LX than the 99 Si.

In a recent article comparing 06 Si to 06 RSX-S it said the 6-speeds are the same except the Si has a taller 6th gear. I hope that is true, but from previously owning a 95 GSR that ran about 20 miles per 1,000 rpm in 5th gear, I know it doesn't really seem to matter.

Cheers,

MidCow

normj

The Si was going to be way more than what I wanted to pay and I had to buy now!. Honestly can't figure out what matters! 1.6L engine seems better than 1.8L. 111 torque seems better than 128. weird. I never drove the 99 SI at high enough rpm to use 160 hp. Mileage is way bettter than the 99 si. ~37 mpg on the first tank.

norm

rorr

"1.6L engine seems better than 1.8L. 111 torque seems better than 128. weird."

What's the weight comparison between your '99 Si and your new '06LX?

normj

think its on par with the 06 lx, if not heavier. I can't find the weight of the 99 ex is listed at 2513 lbs and the 06 lx is at 2654.

norm

only1harry

Fellow LX coupe 5sp. owner:
'99-00 Si weighs 2600lbs even. Also don't forget you are comparing a 160hp car to a 140hp one. The 54 lbs also make a difference.

The Civics DX/LX/EX are built for fuel economy. Your '99 Si wasn't really built for that. It was built for speed and performance. There is really no such thing as a fast car that gets 38mpg. If Honda wanted to they could have made the new Civic faster just by programming the ECU and changing the fuel maps (and air ratios, etc.), etc. Gear ratios are also very important. I read an article that more power comes on around 4K RPM in the '06 Civic (I 'm test driving my LX coupe 5sp tomorrow and picking it up on Monday). This article also said that the timing is retarded at lower RPMs so the car is actually kind of "slow" to preserve fuel. Once the motor reaches 4K RPM (it might 've been 3,800RPM), the timing advances, the CAM moves something like 15 deg., and you get more power. This is all so the great fuel economy can be maintained for "normal" drivers or those driving under 4K RPM. I believe the max. power is reached at 6300RPM. Unless you wind 1st, 2nd & 3d to 6+ grand each, you really won't know how fast your car is and I doubt you 've done that since you only had the car a day or two.

My '01 Civic EX coupe (127hp/114lb-ft) is like that too. The car feels much faster between 4-6K RPM. It sort of jumps forward and you can feel the power surge at 4K. Then there is another one again at around 4800 with a different "tune" of the engine and even more power comes on. From ~5K to 6800 redline the acceleration is pretty linear with no surges. Actually the car starts running out of steam around 6500RPM but it's barely noticeable. I 'm sure the power curve (and torque) begins its downward decent after it hits peak power which I believe is also at 6300RPM in my '01.

andysandiego

I liked a test drive in an EX auto Nav sedan when they were first available, but today I briefly drove an LX 5-speed coupe, and was impressed with the fun of winding the engine up in second - as much as conditions permitted. I agree with others that the electric steering feels very light, but I bet you’d get used to it. The dealer had a spiffed up ’06 coupe on the floor with 225/40-18 tires on it, and Koya wheels but no one could tell me the width of the wheels. The package looked great.

At 40 mph or so I thought it would be interesting to see how it felt in 5th, to see how much it felt like lugging. I committed a faux pas but learned something. I pressed the lever too far to the right, pulled it toward me and thought the radio was giving out a funny high-pitched whine, but soon realized I was trying to put it in reverse. What’s interesting is that my ’99 Camaro Z28 has a lock-out to prevent you from pushing the shift lever over to the right while going forward. Plus, believe it or not, reverse on the Z28 (which has the 6-speed Corvette transmission), has synchromesh.

The latest “Autoweek” is starting a Drivers Log with a new Si. All three testers like it, although Mandel writes, “I would like less electric steering boost.”

:P

strumelia

Aghh!- You mean you ripped the dealer's car into reverse while driving 40 mph on a test drive? Man, I wouldn't want to be the poor person to eventually buy THAT car! Was the salesman with you at the time? :sick:

andysandiego

I made it sound worse thtan it actually was. The salesman next to me didn't even notice. There should be a lock-out, though. I'd still the buy the car if it were what I really wanted. I thought the controls and things like the interior door handles seem a bit more plasticky than my '04 (sedan). The coupe sure looks stubby, and the Si will, too.

:P

strumelia

andysandiego writes:
>The salesman next to me didn't even notice.

That's because he had fainted.

>There should be a lock-out, though.

Yeah, for YOU!

>I'd still the buy the car if it were what I really wanted.

I understand. Naturally you wanted a car that didn't have stripped gears.

.....JUST KIDDING!! (couldn't resist)
Strumelia

goose

Its not the plate. I don't have one yet. Its definitely coming from the rear deck.

earth

This is the reason I will never buy a Demo car...Too many hot footed people out there messing up a good car on the lot, and never buy from someone that is still too young to understand that a car is not a toy

themoon77

The new Road & Track magazine I received yesterday echoes what I have read from you all concerning the new Si. Looks like the handbrake is indeed a real pain. Being 6-2, I am really fearful of this, because I DO want a new Si, but I don't want such a thing to keep me out of the car. We'll see how bad it is once I can get into one.

Edge

midnightcowboy

Hey when everything else is perfect with the Si, you have to complain about something. Handbrake in Accord is no problem and I would bet my bottom dollar it isn't a problem in the Si either.

Cheers,

MidCow

mldj98

The hand brake in the Accord and the civic are not in the exact same place.....the handle in the Civic does get in the way with your knee....but if you drive with your foot on the gas pedal completely straight up and down then it won't be an issue....but if your cruising along, ones leg may tend to go to one side...hence your knee hitting or resting on the hand break.....sat in both the sedan and the coupe same problem....I'm about 6'1" and it is an issue with me as well....now if your shifting all the time in the Si then it may not be as big of an issue.....
won't know for sure until I drive one......the real question is this.....will this be a deal breaker????
Hmmmmmmm.....jury is still on on that one....
just my .02

earth

06 Civic Coupe EX and no, no, no hand brake problem...PERIOD

only1harry

Went to the dealer Saturday to test drive the LX coupe 5sp. I had a put a deposit on it and had waited ~3 weeks for it.

My 1st impression was the car is not gray but bronze. The last time I was there, they had a galaxy gray EX but it was under a canopy on the side of the building and looked gray. It was sold and all prepped and shiny. Actually looked really good in the shade. Well in the sun it cannot be mistakened for a gray metallic car. It's a goldish brown bronze color which I didn't like. There was a black EX coupe right next to it which I really liked (don't like the ivory interior but..) so I told the salesman right from the start that I was having second thoughts about the color. He said the black one was sold but "no problem, lets take the gray LX for a spin".

Now before I go on keep in mind I own an '01 EX coupe 5sp, and have owned 2 other Civics before that, a '97 DX Hatchback 5sp., and a '93 EX coupe 5-sp. These are the cars I 'll be comparing the '06 to.
I spent about 30min. overall inside this car and drove it 6 miles with the salesman in the passenger seat. I noticed a lot more plastic in the car 2nd time around (I had sat in other LX & EX sedans 2-3 wks ago), that feel like a lower grade plastic than what I have now in the '01 EX or my '97 DX.
- Visibility in general seems worse than my '01 coupe.
- Steering felt "funny" and like there was a few milisecond delay when turning but you 'll probably won't notice it. It's not too bad but definitely feels "light" and like you 're not turning the wheels (the steering rack) yourself. I race my Integra and my brother's Type-R so I very keen when it comes to small changes especially in steering and handling.
- Acceleration: since I knew I wasn't buying that car I decided to REV it a little higher than I usually do in a test drive but asked the salesman if it were ok and he said it's fine as long as I don't overdo it. We agreed that I would not go over 5K RPM. The car is slower compared to my '01 EX at low speeds and low RPM but if you stay in lower gears and rev it past 4500RPM it feels ok but still slower than my '01 EX. I actually hit 5500 RPM in 1st & 2nd gear and it accelerated ok but it's just not as fast as my '01 Civic. Maybe the new Civic needs to be launched at 3-4K RPM to be quick, don't know, but that would destroy the clutch fairly quickly. I launched from about 2K and spun the tires a little. It was actually a good launch I thought with no bog. So my impressions were that the '06 does 0-60 in at least 9sec. if not more, not low 8's like the previous (7th) generation '01-05 Civic. I hope I 'm wrong but it just didn't feel as quick as the '01. I also smashed the gas in 5th gear at 40mph and the car didn't move, nothing happened! I downshifted to 4th and it started moving slooowwwlyyy. My '01 in 4th gear at 40mph takes off! I think Honda's torque figures might be way off. It 's supposed to reach peak torque at 4300 RPM but the torque is not felt below 4K. From 4500 on, it feels much better. I have a feeling they 're going to find out that 3d party vendor installed the wrong sensor or built a part out of spec robbing precious power or torque from the motor..
- BRAKING: Mediocre as are all Civics. ABS engages way too fast because the tires are crappy. When I switched to better tires in my '01 braking improved dramatically.
- Handling - LOTS OF BODYROLL!! About 30% more body roll than my '01 EX!! Upon my request the salesman took me to some nice country roads with lots of curves and I pushed it a little. Bodyroll was immediately evident. I wouldn't say excessive, but borderline/very close. Ride was NICE however and well composed, slightly better than my '01 but then again my '01 has 162k mi. and I 've probably forgotten how the ride was when it was new. It got a little bumpy when we hit a bumpy part of a road but I don't mind it because I could tell the springs are a little firmer. What it needs is stiffer valving on the shocks. The whole time REVing to 5,000+ RPM the interior remained quiet and the engine was not buzzy like my '01's is.
Shifting/clutch: Clutch was extremely soft and easy to depress and coordinate with the shifter. The shifter however is entirely plastic and bugged the cr*p out of me because it was slippery! After I 'd shift my hand would slide right off! If you get a chance grap the shifter on an '01-05 Civic or any Honda and feel the difference. Older Civics have fake leather (or real) or leatherette shifter or in '01+ models it's a nice grippy rubbery shifter. The '06 has a slippery plastic shifter that's so fake and shaped so weird that I hated it. Couldn't get used to it. It's also mounted too high. With my eyes on the road my hand was looking for the shifter. My hand would go too low and I had to take my eyes off the road to find the shifter. Shifter is TOO NOISY. Clicks loudly everytime you put it or take it out of gear. Gear changing is notchy and not so smooth like in my '01, '97, and '93 in which it felt like cutting butter when shifting. Not the '06. You hear and feel a metal like grinding sound/click everytime you go in or out of gear. 3d gear is HARD to find. This comes from someone who has driven nothing but cars with manual transmissions! I never had an issue with any of my other Civics going into 3d or any gear. My other Civics were a pleasure to shift, really. Not this car. From 1st to 2nd it's no problem. From 2nd to 3d it is an issue. I never thought I 'd see that or say that about a Honda. My knee did touch the hand brake the whole time but after a few minutes I forgot about it or I wasn't paying attention to it. Now when I entered the car, my knee hit the same parking brake because it was engaged (up). I hit it hard where I almost said "ouch". Anyone over 5'10 will have to be very careful entering the car because that dang shifter is in the way. Bad design, period.

Sorry about the long post. The new Civic does have a nicer much needed long awaited arm rest, decent storage space, nice dashboard, stereo and contols are fine, etc. But acceleration wise and shifting was disappointing to me. I actually left the dealership very upset and extremely disappointed because I expected the '06 to be just as good or better than my current Civic. It was not as good (forget better) in most categories and now I think I may have to say goodbye to the Civic and that really upsets me. I 'm actually angry at Honda that is trying to sell a lesser Civic to the American public because maybe they think they are bulletproof and Americans will flood the showrooms to buy Honda cars no matter what. Maybe they 're right. Maybe the salesman is right saying I 'm not the average buyer because I look too close at things and I 'm more keen to details. I think this serious recall that is going on right now with all the '06 Civics about the gas pedal getting stuck may be a sign what this car is built l

only1harry

Sorry about the long note. The last couple of sentences got cut off. In any case, I hate to say it but I 'm going to start looking at Toyotas and other cars. I 've been very loyal to Honda and even bought my wife a CRV last year (which btw has had several problems) but I think I see a trend with Honda that I don't like. They 're trying to impress people with looks and dashboard design thinking noone will notice the cheap plastic inside or their cost cutting methods, the lack of power (I hit the gas going uphill in 2nd and 3d gear and the car barely made it up the hill - my '01 flies up the hill in 2nd through 4th) which I 'm sure is a result of them trying too hard to get good gas mileage, bad shifter, poor visibility, cheap touring tires, and mediocracy in every way.

Take a look at the doors in a '93-05 Civic and you 'll see very little plastic on it. It's usualy a nice expensive feeling rubber. The '06's inside door panel is 90% hard plastic. Very cheap feel and look. Enough said on that. I 'm just upset the new Civic cannot even compare to a 10yr old Civic.

strumelia

Can't you guys EVER learn to keep your knees to yourselves when you sit! Geez, how much knee spread do you NEED, the size of Australia or something??
Strumelia

mldj98

Well?????
Not goin' there!!!! )

micweb

Thanks for the great review. I can tell you are an enthusiast driver, and this will help many of us in keeping our eyes open as we test drive.

I had a 2003 Civic Coupe LX and was fairly disappointed by the handling - my Focus ZX3 had been better. The car provided great gas mileage, however.

I can't understand why Honda misses the things that matter to enthusiast drivers - like handling, weight of steering, etc. - that don't cost anything - and why they get chintzy on things, like tires and wheel sizes (14" until this year), that don't cost much more to do right.

I had hoped for a lot more from this engine/suspension; Honda knew they had lost enthusiast drivers with the last generation, I thought it was on their agenda to get it "right" this time....

(What's sad, is that this is the COUPE where they actually took the time to have different wheelbase, stiffer suspension - and it still comes across sounding more like a Scion tC than a sporty ride.)

only1harry

micweb: Actually there are simple things you can do with your '01-05 Civic to improve handling. One of them is to get a custom wheel alignment. Don't forget we have McPhearson strut suspension up front and that means we can finally adjust the camber. I had my alignment shop give mine a little more negative camber, more toe out in the FRONT, not a lot, like -0.04" or -0.05" each side for a total of 1/10th of an inch toe out at the most, ie: -0.10" total. Toe in (+ positive toe) will make the car understeer more and you will rollover your tires (sidewall) more easily. In the REAR you can only adjust the toe not the camber. My toe in the rear was toed in too much so I had them bring it back to 0" (on both sides of course - left should always match right)in the rear and the car handled and rotated a lot better! The only advantage of toe-in (especially in the rear) is a little more high speed stability and quicker turn-in but. 0" toe is pretty good in the back. The ride only gets affected a little when you start going to toe-out in the rear. Only if you race (formally) your Civic you should have toe-out in the rear, otherwise 0" toe is what most alignment shops do or slight toe-in like +0.02 on each side. Mine had +0.07 on the rear left and +0.09 on the other. So I went from a total of +0.16 total toe in the back to 0 toe. Made a nice difference in handling. I notice everything in my car because I autocross race my Integra regularly (like last wknd) so I can feel even the slightest difference.

Better tires also help tremendously. The factory tires are really crap. I got Bridgstone RE950s which lasted around 40k mi. and Dunlop A2 Sport (196-60-15") and handling was like night & day. It's actually not a bad handling car if you just get better tires. I also made my car accelerate faster (and handle better) by installing lighter 15x6.5" Rota wheels. They are only 12.8lbs, about 4lbs lighter than the stock 15" steelies that my '01 EX came with. That translates to 40lbs less unsprung weight on each corner. 160lbs less unsprung weight overall! Better acceleration was immediately noticeable as was quicker steering response and lane changes. Lighter wheels make a big difference. Also helps with gas mileage if you don't go crazy with the tire width. I 'm back on the steel wheels now getting ready for winter and I don't like it. I can tell the car accelerates slower and the winter tires make it handle bad.

Does your '03 LX have the 12mm rear sway bar like the EX? I believe LX models only had a 10mm rear bar in the first year out in '01, but I think in later LX models they might have matched the EX diameter of 12mm.

I can't see how the '06 Civic LX/EX doesn't have a 14 or 15mm. 11mm is a joke for the heavier '06 Civic. My '01 EX weighs 2550lbs. The LX/EX 2650/2700. The heavier a FWD car is the bigger the rear sway bar needs to be. The '06 rear springs & shocks are way too soft too which is another reason they need a bigger sway bar in the back. I pushed down on the rear suspension with the trunk open and it easily went down 2-3"! I then did it again with 1 hand and I was able to compress the suspension at least 2" with no difficulty at all. It felt extremely soft. The salesman said "wow, you 're doing that with 1 hand?". Very disappointing. Then I knew why I had experienced so much body roll during the test drive of the LX coupe. It felt like pushing down on some of my American cars that I had in the 80's (I 'm 39). I think I 'm going to test drive an EX coupe next time to make sure they don't have a better suspension or bigger sway bars because I don't trust web sites and specs - they make typos or give wrong info. I will also give it the rear suspension test push to see if it's the same as the LX
I still haven't decided what to do. They are looking for a black LX coupe 5sp for me right now (cause I didn't like the Galazy gray) but they said it looks like they have one coming in around middle of December. So I have 30 days to decide what I want to do. My '01 EX is still going strong so I 'm not in a big rush.

strumelia

I really like my new 06 EX Coupe. Very stylin. It's got plenty of smooth power zooming up my very steep long hill without skipping a beat, it's a great gas mileage car, it has a sleek sporty look and plenty of luxury features I like. I LOVE the dashboard with the speedometer right up by the road eye level. Needless to say my knees DON'T hit the handbrake, and I "even" like the warm honey Ivory interior. It's also a Honda which likely means a good overall future repair record and loads of resale value.

I don't plan on racing it, though, so I'm simply not going to worry about all that stuff poor Harry worries about.
I'm probably the more "typical" buyer Harry's salesman was referring to.

I did make sure to go to several area Honda dealers before I settled on what color to get, because I wanted to see ALL the colors in person first. As Harry says, the Galaxy Grey is indeed more like a bronze. But I would describe it as a silver-bronze, not really a brown by any means. I thought it was a nicer warmer grey than just a cold grey, and if you want silver-grey then get the silver anyhow, I thought to myself. The silver didn't seem silvery enough to excite me personally, and the Galaxy Grey was a bit grandfathery looking for me. The black was definitely cool, but left me with a too somber depressing feeling. The Atomic blue was like Superman and seemed too comic book sparkly. Harry, why don't you just wait for the red EX Coupe to come out in Jan? You sound like a red car guy anyway. I didn't want red myself because I've been driving a red car for the past 12 years already, and it was time for a big change. I got white because of all the colors it jumped right out and grabbed my eye and I liked the zippy way the white shows off the black window trim and my black nose mask. I love it!
Strumelia

hondasalesman

the new Si already has limited slip differential and 197 hp. The Rsx will probably cease to exist.

only1harry

I feel the same about all the colors. My wife has a silver CRV and my sister a silver '02 Civic EX, so silver is out of the question. I now drive a (dark) blue (forget the exact color name) '01 EX coupe so don't want blue again. The light blue '06 Civic as well as the Galaxy bronze/gray also look grandfathery to me like you said. I also have a red Integra since '99 so I don't want another red car. It's also true that you get pulled over more frequently with a red sporty coupe. So I 'm down to black and white. I like black better than white so it looks like black is going to be it. They had a black EX coupe in the lot that was sold and it looke pretty good. I have seen a white one on the road and it also looked good but I just prefer the black because it's more shiny especially at night Besides, if I change the color one more time the salesman will kill me! :surprise: It's bad enough I wasted 1.5hrs of his time last wknd with "my car" that I had reserved and put a deposit down on. I felt sorry for him but he was cool about it. He doesn't want to lose me as a customer. I 've bought 3 cars from him already + my sister's Civic so that's 4. He 's very patient with me. Besides, he knows he is going to sell that car in 24-48hrs but I think he was afraid one of the other salespeople would sell it now that it was freed up. BTW, the Galaxy Gray's were flying out the door. They had 2 of them all prepped ready for delivery and another one parked next to "mine" was also sold but not prepped yet. The only ones that hadn't sold were the 2-3 EX sedan auto w/Navi that had a sticker of $21K! The same ones I saw there 2+ weeks ago. Now if you had a choice of those or the Si for the same price, which one would you pick? I wouldn't care if the Si ran on premium (which it does) or got worse gas mileage. If I were looking to spend $20-21K the Si would be a no brainer, not the EX. You get much more for your $$ with a $21K Si than a $21K fully loaded EX.

Yes, the LX coupe I drove did OK up the steep hill but only after I went down to 2nd gear. In 3d gear it was bogging and had no "oomph.." unlike my '01 EX.
I forgot to mention the seat and seating position was very comfortable and for a change I had plenty of head room (I 'm 6'2, 200lbs) when I lowered the seat down as far as it would go. Honda did a great job with the dashboard design and I almost started getting used to it by the time I got back from the 6 mile test drive. In the beginning I was looking down at the tacometer trying to find the speedometer to see how fast I was going but a few miles down the road my eyes started looking at the "upper" mini-dashboard and getting used to that.

Just curious if the EX has a switch in the trunk to turn the trunk light off? The LX doesn't.