BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

sannlowe

Just had our tires replaced free -- all four in peabody, ma. turns out we were told that the replacement is free if you file a complaint before 10k miles. well, we told our salesman we weren't satisfied BEFORE delivery of the car (cause we saw all the discussions on line after purchase). had to argue, but we got all four. the downside is that they replaced with bridgestones again. Are the new ones the same?

zenwurm

i have pirelli euforia run flats on my 2006 325i.... have only 15k miles and went in for routine maintenance to be told that i need four new tires, a new rim and an alignment. called bmw - they said call pirelli, called pirelli they said oh well.... any advice? this is simply not acceptable :sick:

rfl

you DO NOT WANT BRIDGESTONE TIRES even for FREE! Take them off NOW while you still have the chance. Replace with Conti Pro Contact SSR (they are the OTHER) OEM tire that BMW offers. Obviously you didn't read enough of the posts.

russklabouch

Jeff.......hate the Bridgestones......1/2 potholes feel like craters...lasted only 35,000 miles. I replaced with Continentals....100% improvement.

I just had to replace a tire because of a nail.....so run flat saved me.....but FLAT TIRE notification won't go away. Do you know how to reset that?

Thanks

circlew

You need to reset the indicator...it's in the manual.

Regards,
OW

scootamon

This issue seems to scream class action lawsuit! I bought an 06 330i with 17,000 miles a month ago. I immediately began to notice tremendous road noise. Unfortunately, I did not realize when I bought the vehicle that there were signs of uneven tire wear.

I have spent the last few weeks reading website after website, blog after blog, about this issue. The comments about how BMW corporate, and various dealers, have handled this issue just astound me. Am I taking crazy pills? How can an issue this obvious and pervasive be so easily ignored by a car company. My local BMW dealer explained that BMW will pay for 4 tires with installation between 0-10,000 miles, and 50% of full tire replacement between 10,000 - 20,000 miles. However, I hear many people getting different answers from apparently less honest dealers... such as pretending there is not a problem, then offering to pay half as if they are doing a charitable service! My dealer doesn't seem to be covering up the issue, yet here I sit deciding whether to drop $634.00 (50% of the total cost for four run flats) on tires that I know are going to cause me problems in the near future.

Here's what I have gathered. Bridgestones are a problem (noise, uneven wear, etc), no matter how many times you replace them. Some people seem to have better luck with the Continentals, but it seems hit or miss. I have heard more horror stories about the Bridgestone Turanzas (thirteen tire replacements in 10,000 miles!!!???!!), yet I have heard enough negative about the Continentals that I am nervous to buy them.

I have already ruled out the Bridgestones. I am at the point where I think I am going to buy standard Michelins, and take my chances with not having a spare. How on earth does it make sense to replace your tires every 5,000 - 10,000 miles, or every time you get a nail in your tire! From what I have read, a decent set of standard tires will eliminate the road noise and uneven wear, and reduce replacement cost significantly. In addition, I may actually get 50,000 miles (gasp!) from a set of tires.

OK. I've said my piece. But I'm still really pissed that I bought a car from a supposedly reputable manufacturer, and I am witnessing person after person being treated poorly by BMW. Has ANYONE actually contacted a lawyer to figure out a proper way to resolve this. Email me if you have ... scootamon@yahoo.com ...Or am I just going to drive on Michelins for the next 100,000 miles, and hope like heck that I don't get a flat?! I suppose I'll be consulting my own attorney....

cdnpinhead

I've been monitoring/researching having a BMW for most of the last 8 years, since I bought my last new car (well, not counting the Acura I bought 3 weeks ago). I was cocked in the "go" position for either a 3-series sedan or sport wagon until a year or so ago, when the RFT situation became a big issue here on Edmunds.

A few other issues having to do with BMW's approach to maintenance (and requiring the dealer to do everything) pretty much soured the whole thing for me. BMW continues to sell or lease more units every year in the U.S., so it's abundantly clear that losing a few do-it-yourself enthusiasts like myself who want to be able to continue a journey in the middle of Nevada after having a flat tire is way off their radar.

There's more at the door, as was once said. Certainly not me and maybe not you next time, but lots of others will continue to buy or lease these things.

Go figure.

Lawsuits, by the way, are what probably got us these damn tires in the first place, or at least the reluctance to repair them.

mjbauer

I just ordered a new 335xi. should arrive in mid-May. One thing the sales guy recommended was wheel and tire insurance. $595.00 with a $3000 dollar lifetime limit. Since he glossed over all the other high margin add-ons I gave this recommendation a little thought. I am curious as to what others on this forum think of this? In a way it seems to confirm the run flat experience of many. Any ideas out there?

By the way, I will undoubtedly upgrade the wheels and tires and likely use the standard wheels with snow tires (I reside in Michigan). That means I have to have some mechanism for fixing a flat, at least temporarily. I would be interested in ideas around that also.

circlew

I have 36K miles on my 330xi wih RFT's 1 flatcost me $250. BMW replaced all 4 Brdgestone EL42 tires at 12K with continentals.

Tire are very good and I have rotated front to back at 5K intervals and are wearing perfectly.

Do not buy the insurance, IMO.

Regards,
OW

rfl

Can u say RIP OFF? ! Don't buy insurance. I have the conti's on my 335xi and am happy as can be. I went for the extra tire and wheel and have them in the trunk as a spare. The tires are $144 at Tire Rack. You could buy 4 for the price of the insurance.

mjbauer

All, Thanks for the input. Your thoughts steer me away from that option, it is why I asked, getting an idea from others perspectives and experiences. .

chrisnj1

Hi, me and a friend bought identical 330i. Both had Bridgestone tires. He had a friend who worked at a BMW dealer who replaced the tires for free, I went to my dealer in NJ and told them what my friend got and they replaced all 4 with Contis. I paid for balancing. They are quiet and much smoother riding. The old tires had 16,000 on them. There was a recall on the Bridgestones but the dealers aren't saying anything unless the customer complains. If you complain they offer you a 50% deal.

wholi

I'm considering doing the same - swapping Bridgestone RF for the Michelin MXV4 on an 2006 325i.
Were there any adjustments that needed to be made in the suspension in order to make the swap from RF to regular tires? I've read you might need to.
What PSI are you using on the Michelin's?

Thanks!
Wholi

shipo

No modifications of the suspension are even remotely required or necessary. Mount up the new GFTs and away you go, simple as that. Those that tell you otherwise are either dealers trying to tow the company line, or believe the drivel spouted by dealerships. FWIW, not all dealerships are anti-GFT.

Keep us posted on how you like the Primacy MXV4s (I hear they're one of the best All-Season tires out there).

Best Regards,
Shipo

wholi

I'm considering doing the same - swapping Bridgestone RF for Michelin MXV4 on a '06 325i.
Were there any adjustments needed in the suspension when you went from RF to regular tires? I've read this might be an issue but don't know if it's true or just dealer BS.
Also, what PSI level are you using on your Michelins?

Thanks!
Wholi

wholi

Thanks Shipo!

I appreciate the info. I'll keep you all posted on what happens. :-)

Wholi

blueroad

We swapped to these Michelins on a 325 that had Bridgestone RFT and the change was all positive. No adjustments. The Michelins have a bigger radius, and the resulting ride is smoother, but I actually prefer the look and the ride. They are extremely quiet.

highlandpete

I spoke with a BMW Service Manager (UK) about any modifications and he confirmed nothing was needed. Even recommended the Goodyear F1 as a good tyre other owners were using on the 3-series.

I have modified my suspension. I'd chosen the non-sport setup, due to having RFTs, so now had a chance to modify to get better control without the crashing caused by the RFTs. I fitted Koni FSD dampers with success. Had them on for a year to-date and well pleased with the softer secondary ride improvements, with better primary ride control as well.

Suits me better on UK roads than the softer stock suspension, without making it a sport setup.

Highland Pete

jmess

I ran GoodYear Run Craps on my C6 for a year and hated them. So I got another set of wheels and put on some GFTs; they totally transformed the way the car felt and road. I carried a tire plug kit, Conti Comfort kit, and a small jack but never needed them in 2 years. I also found that GoodYear Run Craps wear at a faster rate than my GFTs even though they had similar wear ratings.

I don't think there are too many folks that value car feel and handling that like Run Craps. So I think the problems expressed in this forum exist with other makes of cars; they are the nature of the RFT "beast". I have recently moved on to another car that came with GFTs; there is a lovely donut spare sitting under the rear hatch floor panel eating up cargo space. I also carry the Conti Comfort kit.

So it goes.

wholi

Thanks to everyone for their input regarding the switch to regular tires.

I'm getting the swapped on Friday morning!

One final question - does swapping the tire have any affect on the 4 yr/50,000 mile service agreement? I'm guessing 'no' since it seem the tires are not covered under the agreement.

Thanks again!
Wholi

wholi

Oh, one other thing....If you're making the switch from RFT to regular tires, don't bother going to Costco. They won't make the swap unless you already have a spare tire in the car!

bdkinnh

>does swapping the tire have any affect on the 4 yr/50,000 mile service agreement

Nope. If anyone tries to tell you it does, ask them to put it in writing. I'll bet they won't.

nkeen

I took my 2006 325i ZSP in to have its winter LM-22 RFTs swapped for the summer RE050A IIs yesterday. The dealer gave me a 2007 328i with base suspension and Contis on 16" standard rims for the day. My impressions:

- Contis gave a softer, smoother ride than the EL42s on the last base E90 I drove.
- Turn in and responsiveness on twisty 2 lane roads was less sharp and precise than with the EL-42s -- steering had a vaguer, squishier feel.
- Standing behind the car with Contis installed, you can see some sidewall flex that is not apparent with the LM-22s, for instance (also on 16" rims).
- I much prefer the feel of the ZSP car on back roads -- some crashiness on badly maintained roads is a decent trade for the sharp, edgy "alive in your hands" precision of the handling with the sports setup and RE050A tires.
- Final thought: re tire pressure. You may need to look this up in the manual and tell the dealer what to use.

dohrmc

Wow, I have just read several years of posts on the RFT problem. It has changed my mind on a new BMW. I am currently driving my excellent '99 Saab 95 and was about to spring for a new BMW. No thank you, BMW. I will wait for the RFT dust to settle. [For the record, I have like BMW for many years, having test driven the old 2002 many times. I couldn't afford it, as I was a poor lieutenant at the time.] Now that I can afford whatever I want, they have moved the target. Dealer support sounds no-existent. I am not interested in having an adventure with tires on a long road trip. I think it is because most of the decision makers can't envision driving somewhere where there is no possible service because of the remote location. Luckily, there are lots of really good cars out there.

mjbauer

I am surprised to read that this one thing would cause one not to buy a vehicle? In effect the benefits of run flats are that you can safely continue to drive for a relatively long distance without stopping. That to me is a safety feature, especially for me if my wife is driving. She will not have to pull over to change a tire in a hazardous area. The drawback, is they cannot be repaired I don't believe the newer BMWs are still having any problems with tires and they are becoming common on many vehicles. I posed a question a while back as to insurance on these tires and wheels and was answered to my satisfaction about the lack of a need for the insurance

ccc4

same thing here...RFT is the only thing that holds me on as I read so many negative reviews about it. Can anyone tell me how bad it is compare to regular ones, much noisier, shorter tread life, higher cost....etc. What is the best brand to go with? and if it's possible to replace it with regular ones and if there is enough room for the spare? Thanks

shipo

"In effect the benefits of run flats are that you can safely continue to drive for a relatively long distance without stopping. That to me is a safety feature, especially for me if my wife is driving. She will not have to pull over to change a tire in a hazardous area."

Geez, I look at it from a completely opposite perspective. I'd MUCH rather have my wife driving a car with a spare tire so that if/when she has a flat, she can simply call me (or roadside assistance assuming one of us is on the road and we're not together), have the tire changed and be on her way, regardless of how much further she's got to go. To me, having a spare tire is far-FAR safer than having RFTs and no spare.

Best Regards,
Shipo

dohrmc

I passed a lady a few weeks ago in heavy traffic, no way to get over and help. She was on the side of the road in a new BMW, the left rear tire was essentially gone. At the moment I passed, she was on her cell phone. I don't consider driving 60 miles or so on a RFT that is damaged a long distance. If I was out in the wilds of Georgia, or Alabama I would be on the side of the road for a long while. Not to mention a great deal of the USA. With a spare, I would be out of there pretty quick. Techies always promise more than they can deliver. I am going to wait and see how this shakes out. In the meantime, I will probably get a car with a spare tire.

ajfinoak

I had an '06 325 with the run flats and SP which turned out to be a lemon. I would have been able to overlook the poor handling of the issue by BMW until I got my $ back but the idea of getting another car with run flats steered (no pun intended) me away from BMW for now. In 15 months, I had 3 nails in 3 tires which did not go flat because I left the nail in until I could get it fixed (no air loss). Each was an incredible hassle having to find a tire service station that would repair the run flat tire (insane to have to buy a new tire for that, first one at 75 miles- BMW said I needed to buy a new tire!). The last one could have been a major hassle- driving with 11 year old twins in the car on back roads in far Northern CA. I saw the nail but knew I would never find a place to repair the tire in rural CA on a Sunday- never mind thinking of trying to find a place that sold them! I was 150 miles from home and luckily the nail kept the air in as the run flat would never have lasted. Sorry BMW, you will need to find another customer to persuade of the value of your corporate decisions.

blugekko

That is not true at my Costco. My friend just swapped his run flats at Costco with no problems.

lgm

I live out in the NW, where there are a lot of open roads that I would love to drive a 335 on. I made a decision not to buy a BMW based on two key items - first the run-flats and the potential of being stuck somewhere more than 50 miles away from a dealership or tire place that stocked them, and second because I never got a straight answer from the two dealers I talked to. Although there were a couple of other small things I did not personally like on the BMW, they would not have been deal breakers. BMW will continue to stay on my radar, but unless they give me an option on the RFT, they will not get my business. I have at least two friends who have made the same decision for the same reason.

I continue to hope that BMW is monitoring this and other boards.

circlew

I doubt BMW monitors these boards or even cares about this issue...full speed ahead!

Regards,
OW

hpowders

"It has changed my mind on a new BMW."

Me too!

I have leased BMW's exclusively since 1993.

The run flats are the latest "betrayal" from a once proud company that has lost its way. The "Ultimate Driving Machine" is alas, no more.

My 2005 545i lease is up in July. It has been a wonderful vehicle. With all the sophisticated technology on board, I can imagine how much money it would be costing me in maintenance during years 5-8 if I was to CPO it and buy it.

I am considering buying a user-friendly, long-term reliable vehicle like the Honda Accord EX L V6 sedan in July. No run flats. Turn signals that work like the "old days." Radio stations that can be set easily. Insert a key, twist and the engine starts. How refreshing!

I will be back if and when BMW realizes the folly of its ways.

'Til then.... thanks for the memories.

Mr_Shiftright

Probably not monitoring us daily but there are ways that the content of these boards are brought to the attention of manufacturers---so your comments do count, definitely.

Visiting Host

circlew

Nice to know it gets back somehow.

These are extremely valid concerns that should be addressed by BMW in some way, shape or form. I've noticed some feedback in Roundel but is it doing any good?

How will we ever know?

Regards,
OW

cdnpinhead

"How will we ever know?"

When RFTs are made optional. I'm not holding my breath. As you noted, Roundel is printing more letters that make the same points made on this board, including the reluctance of people to even buy/lease a new BMW w/ RFTs.

However, there are "more at the door." So long as a brand is driven (sorry) by badge wearers & designed in a country/continent that has no clue what 450 miles of driving without a tire store within 300 miles is all about, here is where we are.

I drive Nevada regularly, and even when I'm in other places, I seek out back roads and other fun options. I will not drive without a spare tire & I certainly prefer tires that allow the vehicle to perform at its full potential.

BMWNA couldn't care less, I imagine. There's three (or 300?) sheep for every one actual driver who opts out.

circlew

Exactly my thoughts...I would not want anyone to hold false hope for changing back to the good ol' days of spare tires and oil dip sticks.

Quite the contrary will hold true, no doubt. Soon all BMW models will run on stiffer sidewalls.

Regards,
OW

bdkinnh

My 08 535i is my first BMW, and I love it. That said, I hate the fact that it doesn't have a dipstick nor an oil temp gauge. I also hate the fact that they got rid of the drain plug on the differential - that was just petty.

I'll curse run-flats with every breath I take, but if they kept them I may still buy another when I'm done with the 535i because I can fix that problem by getting a set of PS2's. Sure, it's more expensive, and it pisses me off, but I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face.

If they get rid of the spare tire, I'm out. Not having a spare is dangerous, and I'll never be without one. Ever.

galenbh

I'm also in the camp that will not be without a spare tire. Has anyone discussed with a BMW dealership the possibility of having one mounted in the trunk? Sure, could just throw one back there... But it will bounce quite a bit depending what you are driving over (esp. speed bumps). Also... dropping 50k on a car and having a tire and jack bounce around in my trunk seems... well... unfortunate.

rfl

I will not be without a spare either. So, I ordered an extra wheel(oem) from the dealer-$286 + tax) and an extra conti pro contact from Tire rack ($144) and a 12" bungy cord from Pep Boys (89 cents). drop the wheel in the trunk...on either side in the back corners is a "D" ring bolted to the car. Attach one end of the bungy cord to each D"" ring and the tire is installed. Limits trunk space, sure...but there's still room for soft duffles when you travel and plenty of room for normal stuff like groceries, etc. locally. Doesn't bounce a bit...sits there like a rock (it weighs about 40 pounds). And...as a bonus...if you ordered the car with the drop down seat you've hardly taken any space at all and since the seat(when folded down) angles slightly upward toward the interior...the tire doesn't fly forward either.

cdnpinhead

"Attach one end of the bungy cord to each D"" ring and the tire is installed."

You might want to consider a stouter arrangement -- maybe a ratcheting strap & some means of limiting forward motion with it. In a front-end collision that 40-lb assembly could become quite a battering ram as it moves forward. That said, yours is the solution I would have selected, had I ended up with a 3.

volkov

I'll second that, bungee cords are stabilizers only and will tear themselves apart under any real load such as sudden deceleration of a 40# wheel. Splurge the extra $5 for a proper nylon tie down strap. Security of a spare wheel in the cargo area of the wagon was one of the major issues I wrestled with when we considered the 3 series.

njmike2

I just picked up a 2007 CPO 335 i with 8K miles on it- Non SP.

Car has 17 Conti RF tires. I think they are terrible overall. I thought they would be decent based on what I have seen here.

My question is this- Is it possible to get a spare doughnut from another model at say a junkyard (Maybe an X3?) to use in an emergency. ?

I will be swapping out these tires for Michellin Primacy GFT shortly. Dont like the idea of only conti comfort can.

Lastly, As a 2000 323 owner- I am a bit disappointed in this 335 car thus far. Feel that the E 46 has a better ride overall. I was going to get rid of it- but may keep it also.

Of course this car is much quicker ect- but feels more harsh-Shifts, Bit of turbo lag. Tires real bad.

cutevablonde

Hi Guys -- I am having the same problem as everyone else with these RFT except I feel lucky -- I actually got 27,000 miles -- I have a 2006 330xi! I am not going to replace them with RFT's so wondering what would anyone recommend?

I will take my chances with a flat tire -- live in an urban area so not worried about that.

And, if anyone decides to sue BMW, count me in. They completely deceived every customer who bought these cars, and I personally will never buy another BMW again.

Thanks!

hayes9

First off, I would like to thank Shipo and all of the other BMW enthusiasts on the forum for your warnings and advice on the RFT problem. It staggers my imagination that BMW would produce a quality car and then saddle it with 3rd rate tires and no spare. I am on the cusp of purchasing a 328xi and have decided to swap out the RFTs for Michelin Primacy MXV4s, and then throw a "donut tire" in the trunk. I do not mean to hijack the basic purpose of this forum which is to warn the unsuspecting of BMW's foolishness, but now another issue has arisen on my planned purchase. Consumer Reports indicates that the i model of the 328 series is significantly more reliable than the xi model. I am willing to put up with the tire shenanigans in order to drive the car that gives me the most pleasure, I am not willing to put up with a less than reliable car out here on America's northern plains. Have any of you noticed a reliability gap between the i and xi models that would cause any concern? Thanks, Hayes

circlew

2006 330xi 34,000 miles is flawless so far.

Regards,
OW

rprice1

At 15,000 miles the right rear Potenza RFT on my 325i developed a slow leak. Rather than spend any money on the awful RFTs, I replaced all four tires with Michelin Pilot Sport PS GFTs. The result is dramatic. I can not exaggerate the improvement: tire noise- gone; tramlining- gone; bone rattling jarring with every bump and crack in the roadway- gone; skittish handling except on the most smooth highway- gone!

Of course, I still do not have a spare tire and so I am uncomfortable about using my 325 for long trips (such SF Bay Area to LA, which I do frequently in my 525). I purchased a Conti Comfort Kit in case of a flat, but I am not all that confident about relying on that if I get a flat in the middle of nowhere!

hayes9

OW, thanks for your information, have you even heard of a quality difference between the i and the xi ? I have heard that the i handles well in winter with Blizzak tires.

circlew

It is said the the extra weight hinders the handling vs. non-XP but I am havinng huge fun non-the-less. That makes me a poseur, BTW!

Xi+slush box=Poseur!

One who groups him or her self in a particular social clique in order to appear trendy or "edgy" but doesn't believe in the principals held by said clique and is only leeching onto it in order to avoid the social ridicule of not being part of a clique. A poseur will probably change their "style" once every 6 months, possibly more.

The only difference is nothing bothers me! Go figure!

Regards,
OW

jaj

I don't recall seeing anything in Consumer Reports contrasting reliability between i and xi models. Can you please indicate where you saw that? Thanks.

-Jeff