Mid-size High Performance 5 Door Hatchback Recommendations Wanted
I'm trying to find out what options there are in the way of sedan sized reasonably high performance 5 door hatchbacks. Preferably with 5/6 speed manual transmission since I like to really drive my cars, not just point and click.
I'm not looking for an SUV, or a wagon. I'm also not looking for the sub-compact size.
To give you an idea, the only one I've really seen is the Mazda6 5 door hatchback. It has a sedan (actually more of a coupe) body, 5 doors and 210 hp. The Audi A3 looks OK, but is more wagon shaped. Price-wise somewhere $25-30k ish for a fully loaded model.
Coming from the UK where hatchbacks are a plenty, I don't get why there are so few options - or am I missing something? Having a trunk seems dumb, when a hatchback gives you so much more space.
I'm not looking for an SUV, or a wagon. I'm also not looking for the sub-compact size.
To give you an idea, the only one I've really seen is the Mazda6 5 door hatchback. It has a sedan (actually more of a coupe) body, 5 doors and 210 hp. The Audi A3 looks OK, but is more wagon shaped. Price-wise somewhere $25-30k ish for a fully loaded model.
Coming from the UK where hatchbacks are a plenty, I don't get why there are so few options - or am I missing something? Having a trunk seems dumb, when a hatchback gives you so much more space.
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Focus which is offered as a three or five-door hatchback and going up a size the Mazda 6 comes in a 5-door hatchback. That's about all I can think of
Coming from the UK where hatchbacks are a plenty, I don't get why there are so few options - or am I missing something?
There's a strong prejudice among us Yanks that consigns Hatchbacks too the realm of "cheap cars". I don't share it, having owned five different h/backs, but it's there. Accord sales for example didn't really take off until the four door w trunk was introduced. It displaced the 3-dr hatch in a matter of a few model years.
There's also the prevalence of multi-car HHs
which means that many do not need one car that is both sporty and practical.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Americans have realized that a hatchback a waste of money, when you can buy an SUV instead
they may be wrong, but that is obviously what they have decided
why would you want a hatchback instead of a Lexus RX330 (400H)?
How about a Volvo V50?
What is so special about a hatchback? Does it need to have two doors instead of four? 2-door cars simply do not sell as well as 4-door cars. Probably further explaining the demise of the hatchback.
Also, given the short wheel base, the ride is not going to be great. It's one thing if your drive is inner city, but for those who have freeway commutes, a little car is not as desirable as something we can stretch out in - like a floating living room.
If you want utility, buy utility (i.e. SUV or wagon). If you want a small car, buy a small car. But it just seems nutty to expect utility and a good ride for the price of a small car. You want a nifty hatchback for 30K? Buy a used RX330.
In my mind, a 5-door hatchback is a waste of money. It's less useful than a real wagon. But the owner can pretend it's better looking, I guess.
(or just buy a nice Subaru)
I think he meant multi-car households. As long as everybody doesn't like the same kind of vehicle, you can get all the variety you need.
"But it just seems nutty to expect utility and a good ride for the price of a small car."
Nutty? It's the best of both worlds! Cars are fun to drive. SUVs aren't. Even if it's just 5 seconds of tire-screeching bliss on an onramp, it's worth it. Not for you, obviously, and that's ok. But for those of us who like feeling all the bumps in a road, they're great. (And I do have a crappy commute, almost bad enough that I'd almost consider an automatic.)
They look better too =p. To me, SUVs look like boxes or blimps. Sedans look the same going forwards or backwards, wagons look like coffins (they're too long), but hatchbacks look like arrows.
I don't want a sub-compact hatch, or even the larger focus size. Golf is way too small for me. I'm looking for sedan sized, but with the coupe / spoiler style.
"SUVs look like boxes or blimps. Sedans look the same going forwards or backwards, wagons look like coffins (they're too long), but hatchbacks look like arrows."
Just about sums up my views too, and to really drive them they have to be sporty and use a stick - no wimpy auto transmission.
BTW, I also thought about buying a Mazda 6 hatch as I liked the driving dynamics but could not bring myself to buy a Ford and the spoilers and interior look cheesy.
I agree with others here on the boxy, dorky SUVs - they are not fun to drive and are pollution pigs anyway. I am getting an Audi A4 and thought about the Avant but it still looks a little too, well, coffin like.
You say the A3 is OK, but looks like a wagon to you. Then you say the "Golf is way too small for me". However, the new (MkV) Golf is larger than the A3 in the back. It has more headroom in the back than the new Jetta, and a larger trunk than the A3. Of course, they are all built on the same platform, so most other dimensions are almost the same.
In 3-door GTI version, it will reach the US in February, as a 5-Door GTI or Golf about in June.
A more car-like SUV that is almost a hatchback is the Subaru Forester --- but that may also be too small for you. Alternatives are the Impreza or WRX.
1. Mazda6 5-door
2. Change the criteria.
There is nothing else even remotely similar to Mazda6 5-door. I know where you coming from, I'm in the same boat: in Europe people want sedan handling and looks but rear hatch utility for those rare instances of hauling a large box. Drop the looks you get a wagon, drop the utility you get a sedan, drop handling and looks you get an SUV. Americans like "simple" solutions so market is segmented accordingly: car is a sedan, unless it's a roadster, truck is a pickup or SUV. Need more space, get an SUV or minivan. Everything between or beyond is "weird", "quirky", or "not cool".
Wagons and hatchbacks never caught on here because of their looks. Go to any discussion list about cars and you'll see that 60-80% comments are about looks outside and inside, 20-30% is handling and acceleration. Utility is taken for granted even it's not really there, e.g. look at some Jeep SUVs, and you'll find less interior space than in most midsized wagons. Eyes buy cars in America and it seems eyes do not like anything different than usual.
With all American practicality, I think they don't know the first thing about ergonomics and space utilization (look how their apartments or houses are planned and compare it to your home country) for obvious reasons: they are not premium here, so no need to plan it carefully.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I agree it's down to the Mazda6. If the A3 is too wagonlike, then the Saab 9-3 Sportcombi probably is too. At least it has some rake to it. The Mk V Golf is quite a bit bigger than the old one, but I don't know if it'll be big enough for you.
You could look for an old Merkur...
Chevy Malibu MAXX. (I know - no stick)
some of the so-called SUVs aren't really SUVs. What about the X3? the FX35/45? I know the FX does not drive like a truck. How about the Murano? or, again, a used RX330?
they won't drive like the Subaru WRX, but they will get you onto the freeway and push you back in your seat
there are some good choices out there - probably more than we've ever had
unless you think the Ford Pinto was a good car
:-)
I still like the idea of a Volvo V50 - get it with AWD and a stick. Sweet ride.
Does the Civic have a hatchback model?
What would be sweet would be a 5 door Accord hatchback the shape of the 2 door coupe.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
and AWD
that'd be a sweet machine
The MSRP for the A3 goes anywhere from about $25K to $34K+, depending on which engine and what options you want. Many buyers pay between $1000 and $1500 below MSRP. So, look around before assuming it's too expensive for you. You don't need to spend more than $28K-$29K for an almost loaded version with the 2.0TFSI engine (my preference), DSG, and leather (Sport package, Convenience Package, and Cold Weather Package).
The RAV4 is one, so is the Mazda CX-7, Ford Edge, Nissan Murano/Infinity FX, Volvo V50 and the A3 3.2.
These cars have a few things in common, AWD, more space/utility than a sedan and a sporty component. Which one you choose depends on what you value/need the most. I'd submit the A3 is by far the sportiest and probably has the least space/utility. The others are more balanced between these factors.
The wagon is well designed and fast. If you can get comfortable that the wagon will be reliable, it is a nice package. It is not a sports car. If you want to know the difference, jump into the A3, particularly the 3.2, and the differences will be obvious.
Pity...the V50 seemed a viable alternative to Audi, etc., until I discovered that bad record.
It looks like its between the A3, and the Rav 4 for me!
Neither Audi nor Toyota want to deal much on the V6 Rav 4 or the A3. Worse, the V6 RAV 4 is rarer than gold or platinum, and people are prebuying the few available.
Audi wants me to pay about $500 in fees, and $500 over cost over invoice. Which basically to me means, $1,000 over invoice because I believe Edmunds over dealers. Come on, Advertising, association, prep, port dock fees???? Why don't they charge for paper, electricity, and stamps while there at it.
Also, does anyone have any real world experience on the Quattro's mileage?
Thanks!
Maybe a little more. But a RAV 4 is way cheaper than a 4runner!
But, Both are first year-ers _here_ and first year cars from anybody, anywhere, tend to have problems. Have you heard anything from JDPOWER or elsewhere on that?
Also, Andres3, any ideas why the V6 RAV is so rare?
Is this true? If so, Am very surprised they are terminating orders this early!
1) the few they get are sold quickly, or sold "inbound" presales.
2) Toyota and Lexus are using the same new dynamite new 3.5V6 in their higher production cars, such as the Camry.
3) Toyota has introduced and will be introducing even more new models, and they are stretching their production capabilities with all these new models.
With Toyota, and the fact the RAV 4 is made and assembled in Japan, I'm not worried about first year jitters and reliability.
With Audi, I'm gravely concerned.
Been burned, now shy.
Perhaps after the initial buying frenzy cools down and Toyota ramps up production of more V6's to feed models requiring them, the Rave4 will be more widely available.
However, my FIRST year model 2003 Accord LX V6 Coupe still had only one major mechanical defect, and only a handful of very minor ones. Thats high average reliability still in my book for 54K miles so far (cross fingers). Unfortunately, high average reliability isn't very Honda-like. The high end of average is the bottom edge of all Honda cars. Therefore, I was expecting bullet proof Camry dependability from 95 - 2005 , and what I got was less than perfect.
Meanwhile VW's decided to change the Golf series in 2008 to a lower-cost-to-build design (current model costs 2.5X what similar competitors cost to build). So we may see major A3 changes then, since A3's related to Golf.
And Pontiac today announced the cancellation of the Vibe's AWD and GT models, leaving only the Base, after May, 2006
The only repeatedly reported "glitches" on the A3 so far has been broken latches for the shade on the open sky system and there is a replacement latch available that is supposed to fix the problem.
C&D May pretty much tore Caliber apart, feeling it needed a lot more development. The SRT-4 version, they were much happpier with, but felt at present it may not be suitable for racing because it sits higher off the ground than the SRT-4 coupe did.
The 3.2 A3 they liked the handling of, but bemoaned the weight increase and gasped at its cost. They also were hoping the new VW R32 currently in Europe would make it over here without waiting for the 2008 Golf redesign.
Hope Edmunds will have its own comparo soon.
By the way, in this never-ending saga, manual rather than DSG may be on the horizon, and the 5-door thing may be out unless they can somehow wring out an additional 5000 units or so.
Also, I would not underestimate the "only now with a newer model" part. From all reviews I have seen, this is a phenomenal handler. Although I still think the 3.2 is somewhat outdated, and would have preferred either an upgraded 2.0TFSI or the 3.6 FSI VR6. :shades:
The 3.6 FSI or updated 3.2 with FSI would have been better choice for A3 3.2, given C&D found the current 3.2's not much quicker than the 2.0T.
The required beefed up transmission for the 3.6 doesn't currently fit into the MkV platform. Since the MkVI is only 2 years away, for those that can wait there are better things on the horizon.
I still find it mind-boggling that the AWD/2.0TFSI combo is not available on any VW/Audi product - and the first one that get's to the US may be the heaviest of the bunch ... the Passat...
Any comments? I did find their insurance pricing was somewhat off wrt my provider.