Toyota on the mend?

nippononly

I read that news on the Insight on Autoweek, and the first comment below remarked in wonder that anyone still sold a car with a 2-speaker stereo in the year 2011.

The solution to Honda's problem with the Insight was NOT to make an Insight DX. It was to put in a hybrid system that would challenge Prius's for fuel economy.

Unfortunately, both Honda and Toyota have been convinced for about a decade now that the only way to improve sales is to cheapen their products, and so it was with the 2011 Insight DX......

ateixeira

Well, Navi was previously standard, which may have been overkill for the "affordable hybrid". That's what it was supposed to be.

I agree the 2 speaker stereo is cheap, and the cheaper fabrics for the seats was also bad. But they could have kept the speakers and cloth and sold an LX-level model still under $20k.

The problem is Honda can't do much about the tight back seat until the next generation, so they are stuck selling a model that can really only beat the Prius based on price. Not good.

lemko

Holy smoke! I remember that jingle: "Chevrolet! Building a Better Way to See the USA!" That was around 1972. My grandparents were big-time Chevy fans. From the time I was born to the present, there was always a Chevrolet parked outside their house. Heck, my parents' wedding album has a picture of my Mom emerging from the back of a brand-new black 1964 Chevrolet.

lemko

Toyota's Unwanted Revvin' Sends More Drivers to Heaven in 2011?

tlong

Toyota will take you to heaven in 2011? :P

(could be interpreted both positively and negatively)

ateixeira

You guys keep saying their cars are boring so how about:

In 2011, Toyota will ... zzz zzz

imidazol97

I had to check to see which discussion this was in. It's Toyota 2010, but I have to comment about our one trip through the upper peninsula to Sault Ste. Marie in late June I believe to ride the train! It snowed with a cold wind. Two days later it was near freezing when we rode the tour boat through the locks!

Have you heard about winter there?

I think you're far enough away that Rocky's not going to drop in. We were in lower Mich. last weekend as well, but you're safe from visits from us. Once to the cold north was enough! :grin

imidazol97

>I have never agreed with you more.

Well, thank you. It's seldom one gets applause.

ateixeira

avoided the UAW union successfully

This is what a senator from TN thinks of unions:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/01/tn-senator-corker-argues-uaw-would-be-highly-- detrimental-to-st/

VW should stay away, else they'll end up moving all production to Mexico.

fezo

June must be a strange month there. I went through the locks there once in June (and a couple of times in August) and it was fine.

Very pretty area but more rugged that I...

stever

LOL at revving.

Fezo, check out Pepe's North Of The Border sometime. I guess it's still there; was voted best restaurant in Barrow (#1 out of 7 :-)).

Imidazol97, winter hasn't really hit yet and it's only 3 weeks to solstice. Unlike my Anchorage days, it's pretty light out here too.

Back to the Insight, I bet they save a pound omitting two speakers and the wiring. There's another tenth of a mpg. Maybe Honda should just up their incentives instead.

(AutoObserver)

iluvmysephia1

Mr. General Motors. I'm so excited about Ford once again, I'm really becoming...domesticated. :P

ateixeira

Ford's new-and-improved products are arriving, but they really have to wean themselves off of those profit-killing incentives.

Toyota seems to be doing fine, given most others are filling the interiors with cash, basically. All things being relative, their incentives are low.

Honda even better.

fezo

Looks like Pepe's is still there! What a riot. I should have known better that to throw one your way....

gagrice

VW had labor problems with the UAW back in the 1970s. Wildcat strikes that shut down the plants. I am sure their expansion in Mexico, and downsizing in the USA was due to UAW strikes and crazy demands. VW is one of the largest automakers in the World, without a big presence in the USA. Where cutting quality to sell cheap cars is the current trend.

Like Toyota they were the largest import in the USA for many years.

iluvmysephia1

$500 Customer Cash back right now on the 2011 Ford Fiesta. Yeah, the incentives are high on Ford products and to move cars, trucks and SUV's, they'll do it. But on a 2011 Ford Fiesta S sedan with only one option, a single-CD player, and a MSRP price of only $14,490 (this price includes destination), that is a large percentage of what would be profit on that car from Ford. If you study what Ford has put in this car as standard equipment compared to what Toyota puts in a Yaris it makes yer head go ga-ga.

Really. Ford is sacrificing on the lower-loaded 2011 Ford Fiesta S sedan big-time.
Just to move vehicles. Where might they make it up? You know! The over-priced large SUV's (including the Explorer) and the large pick-em-up trucks.

explorerx4

There is a lot more room for incentives when you top selling vehicle is an F Series/Super Duty versus a Camry/Corolla.
Not only that, who is getting sued for 'diminished value'?

explorerx4

Don't forget to buy the orange pole and pennant to attach to the bumper to find your car after it snows.
You can go to some Laker's game too, without going all the way to LA.

xlu

Toyota US market share:

Nov 2010: 14.8%
Nov 2009: 17.9%

A 3.1 point drop!

explorerx4

It can be interpreted as a 16% drop in market share, depending on how you want to spin it.

gagrice

Japanese sales were down for the 3rd straight month; excluding minicars, sales were down 31% last month, the biggest annual fall on record for year-over-year November sales. Toyota saw sales dip 35% and Honda slid 38%.

GM Sales Increase 21% in November

* GM’s 4 brands are on track to gain market share for the year
* Chevrolet monthly sales rise 18%; year-to-date sales are up 17%
* Buick monthly sales increase 36%; year-to-date sales are up 54%
* GMC monthly sales improve 30%; year-to-date sales are up 28%
* Cadillac monthly sales increase 21%; year-to-date sales are up 38%

VW smiles

HERNDON, Va., Dec. 1, 2010 /PRNewswire/ -- Volkswagen of America, Inc. today reported that November 2010 marked a 24.2 percent increase over prior year sales for their entire line of vehicles. The Volkswagen Jetta continues to lead in popularity selling 11,153 Sedan and SportWagen models, a 40.2% increase over last year.

Ford Nov Sales up 24%

* Ford, Lincoln and Mercury November sales totaled 147,338, up 24 percent versus year ago
* Ford’s year-to-date sales totaled 1.74 million, up 21 percent; Ford’s sales growth doubled the industry average
* Ford’s balanced portfolio of high-quality, fuel-efficient cars, utilities and trucks drove November sales gains; cars up 25 percent, utilities up 13 percent and trucks up 34 percent
* Fusion set new full-year sales record

Poor old Toyota gets the lump of coal:

TORRANCE, Calif. (December 1, 2010) – Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today reported November sales of 129,317 units, a decrease of 7.3 percent from the same period last year, on a daily selling rate basis (DSR).

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/document/Monthly_Sales_PR_Chart.pdf

dominassion

The engine of my 1997 camry will stop running abruptly in the middle of traffic and refuses to restart right away. Most of the time I have to turn the key in the ignition to off and wait a while before it will run again.
What can be the issue?
Thanks for responses..

ben66

http://www.eurasiareview.com/opinion/opinion/9979-ralph-nader-questions-toyota-s- afety-investment

stever

Try the Toyota Camry Starting / Stalling Questions discussion - we're yakking about Toyota news and trends in here. Good luck!

ben66

Folks, the tide could REALLY be TURNING ! Read this exciting news abt how much more honourable carmakers which I have longed recommended, the trio of Nissan, Hyundai, Honda all make big gains. Just that toyota's lost of market share is still slower than what it should be, some people are STILL taking chances with this crook toyota :


http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-12-01/hyundai-s-u-s-sales-surge-as-industr- ywide-gains-elude-toyota.html

tlong

Folks, the tide could REALLY be TURNING ! Read this exciting news abt how much more honourable carmakers which I have longed recommended, the trio of Nissan, Hyundai, Honda all make big gains. Just that toyota's lost of market share is still slower than what it should be, some people are STILL taking chances with this crook toyota :

...as GM's market share was a lot higher for way too long than it should have been.

I agree about Toyota, it's good that they are finally dropping. Another big company getting on top and then becoming too complacent. I'm happy they are being knocked down a few pegs. And really happy Ford and Hyundai are getting the recognition they deserve.

nippononly

Fleet sales at Toyota dropped by 40%, from about 10% of total sales to about 6%. Could have contributed to the overall drop in market share, and given that fleet sales are generally low-profit sales, might be less damaging than the headlines might seem to imply.....

gagrice

I think the lack of fleet sales could be the rental agencies don't want cars that people are afraid to rent. SUA may not be a big deal to the faithful. I think Toyota would have lost even more sales if Hyundai could have kept up with demand.

2.01.2010 , FRANKLIN, Tenn.
NISSAN NORTH AMERICA SALES RISE 26.8% IN NOVEMBER

Porsche does not sell many fleet vehicles and the are way up over last year:

ATLANTA (AP) -- Porsche Cars North America Inc. said Wednesday that its November U.S. auto sales rose 49 percent from last year on strong SUV demand.

How many sales did Honda take from Toyota?

Honda Division posted November sales of 78,899, an increase of 15.9 percent versus last year. The Accord was the top-selling Honda model for the month with sales of 19,025, up 5.8 percent, followed by the CR-V with sales of 18,263, up 25.4 percent, and the Civic with sales of 16,562, up 16.3 percent. The all-new 2011 Odyssey continued to build momentum in its second full month of sales with 8,805 units, up 31.7 percent. Overall, Honda Division light-truck sales increased 24.7 percent to 38,802 and car sales increased 8.5 percent to 40,097.

I don't think there is anyway Toyota can be happy with the numbers we are seeing. Even with a new Sienna gaining 4% over last years model, the Odyssey kicked their tail, with a 31.7% increase. The bright spot for Toyota is the 4Runner with 130% increase in sales. The vehicle some here said was dead and gone.

ateixeira

But on a 2011 Ford Fiesta S sedan with only one option, a single-CD player, and a MSRP price of only $14,490 (this price includes destination), that is a large percentage of what would be profit on that car from Ford. If you study what Ford has put in this car as standard equipment compared to what Toyota puts in a Yaris it makes yer head go ga-ga.

I agree, but a couple of points...

$14.5k for a sub-compact is not necessarily that low, remember the Aveo and Versa start under $10 grand.

The other point is that few Yarises (Yarii?) come bare-bones. I'm guessin the dealers order them with a decent amount of options, so prices end up close anyway.

ateixeira

There is a lot more room for incentives when you top selling vehicle is an F Series/Super Duty versus a Camry/Corolla.

1st - Toyota is below Nissan on incentives as well, and how many Titans do you see on the road?

2nd - we showed earlier that big Toyota trucks (Tundras and Sequioas) have higher transactions prices than Suburbans.

3rd - 0% financing levels the playing field, because the incentives are proportional to the price paid. The domestics offer up to 6 years interest-free, and 5 years no interest on more models. Toyota offers 5 at most, and on fewer models.

Toyota's incentives are lower than the industry average by more than $500 per vehicle.

ateixeira

I think Toyota would have lost even more sales if Hyundai could have kept up with demand.

Hyundai is going to steal market share from everyone.

Just wait until the Elantra arrives, then the new Azera (looks great).

Here's a funny upcoming campaign for the Elantra:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/02/video-hyundai-launches-save-the-asterisks-cam- paign-for-40-mpg-e/#continued

Hysterical. They target Ford and Chevy.

fezo

Oh, I like that! The Elantra itself looks nice as well. Hyundai's roll keeps going.

ateixeira

Best implementation of the fluidic sculpture to date. Makes the Civic, Corolla, and even Cruze seem dull.

fezo

Yes.

It certainly makes one think of a smaller Sonata but right now that isn't a bad thing at all.

fintail

Azera still exists? This is the vehicle Hyundai had the balls to try to sell in Europe for 40K Euro...guess how well that went.

How long til the front light assemblies touch the doors or the A-pillar?

ateixeira

You have a minority opinion on the styling - the Sonata is a certified hit. These cars are literally shaking up their segments.

crkyolfrt

"and even Cruze seem dull"

I don't think GM intended for the Cruze to have an overly fluidic sculpture.

While I agree, that both the Sonata and Elantra have a compelling and pleasing presence, I wonder though, if GM's conservatism might endure time better? Both the Sonata, and now Elantra's shape, strikes me somewhat faddish. Maybe that's too harsh tho, cuz the shape lends itself well to good interior (and exterior cargo) room in basically all directions (except maybe for rear seat head-room) and pretty good drag coefficient numbers. Remember when the Rabbit came out? It had that shape. The shape that was a do-it-all shape, that in no time Chrysler (and later others still) were trying to emulate with their Omni/Horizon. To this day, I admire VW in that they have massaged that basic shape over all the generations into 2011's version of fluidic sculpture-like slipperiness, but have done so without going over the top. Volvo managed something similar altho to a lesser degree when they dared venture into FWD territory with their first 850. Ya...that's sorta what I feel Hyundai has done, and I am likely feeling that way more so since they followed suit with the new Elantra. I had fleeting similar thoughts when I first saw the Sonata, but now with the new Elantra, following suit, I guess that's why it hits me that me way. That's not to say I don't like the look and both are on my car shop list. I wish one of them was an AWD with a 2.5 litre 5 cyl turbo dsl tho..
And make provision to offer a tow hitch capable of towing 3000 lb.. The Elantra might be a little light for that, but the Sonata could step up I bet.
A guy can dream..

lemko

No, I'm with fintail. The Sonata looks like a Lexus ES if you left it on a hot stove to melt. Millions of people eat McDonald's hamburgers too. It doesn't mean they're good hamburgers.

fintail

Camry ruled its segment for eons too - not exactly a styling classic.

Sonata is ok from the side and rear, but the front is a mess. Just MHO...

I don't see any beauty in the upcoming Elantra either, just lazy styling - somehow swoops excite the masses.

andres3

But why would the American carmakers want to do that ? Shoot their own backyard customers with crap versions ? Do they ENJOY losing sales to other brands here in the big US car market ?

Well, I don't understand why they did it either, but the facts are the facts, and they did "enjoy" losing sales year after year , decade after decade in the US car market, so they must of at least "liked" it.

obyone

decade after decade in the US car market, so they must of at least "liked" it.

That's probably why it took Obama to dump Wagoner. Obviously the board wasn't going to do it.

explorerx4

from their old pal CR

imidazol97

"Oh what a feeling."

From the CR quote:

"...that were subject to the original recall. The repair procedure is extensive, and the TSB document states that the cost is covered under the cars' original three-year/36,000-mile warranty. If the warranty has expired, the owner will have to pay for the work. Meaning, a potential issue was introduced and for some customers, the free recall may mean money out of pocket for owners of older cars impacted by this action.
If you have one of these Toyotas that had the earlier recall performed, and the accelerator pedal now feels loose, we advise you to return the car to the dealership to have the new TSB work performed. "

ateixeira

Both the Sonata, and now Elantra's shape, strikes me somewhat faddish

They definitely took risks, but I think it will pay off, even long-term.

Also, if you look at the Sonata hybrid, you see that Hyundai can pull off different looks from the same basic shape. They could face-lift the Elantra in a similar manner.

I'm buying stock in Hyundai...

AN Today: "Hyundai posted a 45 percent gain in November"

ateixeira

I'm actually going to side with you guys on this one - that's total nonsense. If the dealer cut the pedal short and that solution did not work long-term, they (with Toyota) should fix it and cover the costs.

Dunno about the "old pal" part, though, given they withheld their recommendation from 7 models until the December 2010 issue came out. Not to mention the Not Acceptable for the drift-worthy Lexus GX.

imidazol97

>about the "old pal" part,

I didn't state the "old pal" quote.

ateixeira

It was in the link in the prior post by explorerx4.

Luxury sales YTD:

Lexus: 201,769
BMW: 196,833
Mercedes (minus Sprinter sales): 196,288

Looks like BMW and Benz will battle it out for #2.

gagrice

I know you like to tout Lexus sales as the only bright blip on the Toyota radar screen. If you do an honest analysis you would find Lexus in the number 3 spot on the luxury list. Comparing the ES350 their far and away top seller to the E class MB top seller is a joke. You don't want Mercedes to count the Sprinter. I don't think counting the ES or the IS as luxury is valid. Face it Lexus has dumbed down the luxury car market with their rebadged Camry. It is a shame so many people get suckered into their marketing hyperbole.

ateixeira

ES does not compete with the Benz E-class, the GS does.

And like it or not, the ES/IS and C-class and 3-series are all entry-luxury cars. If you had to exclude one car from those 3 brand it would definitely be the BMW 1-series, anyway.

The Lexus ES doesn't have a direct competitors at Mercedes. I'd say the IS battles with the 3, the GS with the E, and the LS with the S.

And rumors of a GS-F for the persist:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/02/rumormill-yet-again-lexus-gs-f-is-coming/

fezo

Well, not Toyota but there doesn't seem to be a Honda thread in here that gets much interest so....

I have the Ody in for its 75K service. The service loaner is a 2010 Accord - something I'd not previously driven.

Several thoughts - it's officially way to big to be an Accord without having a whole lot more useful space. It also drives more like a Camry than what I think of as an Accord though with more road noise than a Camry (Honda still has noise down...) and a little heavier steering feel. It's OK in a way that my dad's old Buick Century was OK.

this one is an EX-L. To spend extra money for leather I'd like better leather.

Maybe I'll change my mind on this thing and it does have heated seats which is nice but i think if i were buying another Honda it would be a Civic or a CR-V.