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Toyota on the mend?

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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I don't go to the shows like most of you fellas. What I get is mostly talking to people that have different cars. I don't recall anyone saying come look at my new Camry. Just not that much excitement from people that own them.

    The RAV4 -- you can now get one without a tire on the back if you buy the top end model with run-flats (!!!!!).

    That is the last thing I want in a new vehicle. One of the guys at the bank showed me his new 135i BMW a few months ago. His only complaint was getting a flat tire and the $380 to replace the "run flat" tire. It was a roofing nail and the dealer said it cannot be fixed. Have to replace. I don't see them as a plus for a new car. I have AAA for that unintended eventuality. Over 30 years have never used them for a flat tire.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited November 2010
    I have felt that Toyota would be smart to use it's large cash position and buy a controlling interest of Honda Motor

    I don't think Toyota has near enough money to do that. Honda assets are about $125 billion. First you have to find enough investors willing to give up their stock. If Honda is making any profit finding 51% would be unlikely.

    http://world.honda.com/investors/annualreport/2010/pdf/honda2010ar-p03-05.pdf
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    We need to rename this thread to "Toyota on the mend for 2011?"

    This is becoming an annual event. :D Should rhyme with eleven though ... something like "2011 Sales Up, Toyota's in Heaven".

    We'll accept near rhymes like "2011 Toyota Impression". Y'all have all month, and please, no wagering. ;)
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Just looked at the Honda Motor Co (HMC). Current price $36.09 with 1.8 billion shares outstanding. Not sure how many other shares outstanding. That means Toyota would have to come up with about $33 billion to get control of the HMC stock. Not likely that Japan would even allow it. Not good for competition.
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Toyota taking a controlling interest in Honda? Perish the thought! You want them to kill what little innovation and likelihood of producing interesting product Honda has left??!!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I've heard that companies in the past have tried to buy into Honda. I think one of our own American brands here? But Honda has been vehemently against selling any portion.
    Who knows if that might change in the future. I hate to say it (as an owner of a Honda vehicle and various equipment including a bike) but I think their quality is slipping also.

    And so will Hyundai and Ford a few years from now, if they let their present success go to their head. Greed is a nasty revolving door. Finding the balance and committing to it is key.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure you haven't been swayed by the Volt dancers

    That cracked me up - I remember them and yes, that was hysterical.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If they're going to stretch the FT-86 chassis, I wonder if the future WRX will ride on that platform.

    Funny to think the STI and IS-F could be related in some way.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep, all made in Japan...

    ..for a change. :D
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    FWIW, the Swagger wagon is selling well, the #1 van last time I looked.

    The Prius-based people mover will arrive soon and could add some decent volume for them.

    The RAV4 is due for an update soon, no?

    New Lexus GS and IS models are also coming soon.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2010
    My wife is dropping a lot of hints about that Prius people mover.

    And I guess I'm wrong - now it's not a recall.

    You say tomato, I say potato....

    Don't Call It A Recall: 650,000 Unit Repair Campaign Issued For 2004 - 2007 Toyota Prius (Inside Line)
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm not sure they differentiated it enough from the Prius. I'm curious to see how roomy it is inside - hopefully at least Mazda5-sized.

    They probably wanted to keep it light so MPG doesn't drop too much, but that limits its usefulness as a family car.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2010
    The current Prius is probably big enough for us, but we do tend to wind up with larger stuff, like the table saw I was gifted yesterday. It fit upright in the van, something that I couldn't do in the Outback and unlikely to be able to do in the new Prius. But it won't get that good mpg if it's Sienna sized.

    She didn't care for the Mazda5 too much, which surprised me when I suggested she go look at one last year. I dunno; I'm hoping we don't have to trade for another couple of years but the rides are getting long in the tooth.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What I like about the Mazda5 is it's the only minivan you can get with a manual transmission. The "Nagare" styling on the 2011 model kills it, though, just awful.

    There's a lot of room between the Prius and Sienna for something right-sized.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Yeah, that's a big attraction, but after ~20 months, her broken clutch leg is still healing so ....
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bummer.

    I'm sure the take-rate for a manual-equipped people mover would be low anyway, but it's nice that someone offers one.
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    smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    BMW has them across their line-up. A huge disadvantage if you ask me. I have yet to hear someone with run flats give a positive complement about them. Most hate them due to being easy to get a flat, expensive to replace, lousy tread life, and they get noisy really quickly! :sick:
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    smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    A new ES is due for 2012 I think as well.
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    crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    And, are not the car's suspensions tuned to the expected use of run-flats? Their sidewalls flex dif i believe..stiffer i think. So becomes a bigger deal if you want to use reg tires.
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    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    BMW has them across their line-up. A huge disadvantage if you ask me. I have yet to hear someone with run flats give a positive complement about them. Most hate them due to being easy to get a flat, expensive to replace, lousy tread life, and they get noisy really quickly!

    Actually, I suspect the majority BMW drivers have no idea their car is equipped with run flats until they have a need to know.

    While some owners certainly replace them with non-run-flats, again, I suspect most don't.

    If one measures popularity by looking at sales, it certainly doesn't seem to have had much, if any, negative impact on BMW sales.... especially, since there isn't a non-run-flat option from the factory.

    I'm neutral on the issue... I see both positives and negatives.

    On the positive side, I lost a neighbor in the last 2-3 years due to being hit by a drunk driver while changing a flat on the side of the interstate hwy. He was well off the roadside, but was still hit. Chances are, if he had run-flats, he would be alive today.

    On the negative side, I don't think they are any easier to get a flat than any other tire in general, but they are expensive, almost impossible to patch, have a harsher ride and don't have the same treadwear characteristics as non-run-flats.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A tire shop would know, and should warn buyers. They cost more, so I bet the profit margin is bigger.

    I've heard so many horror stories there's no way I'd want them. Higher up front cost, more unsprung weight, stiffer ride, low tread life, high replacement cost, limited availability (and not all shops are even equipped to mount them!), the list goes on.

    And the funny thing is I just had a flat this weekend.

    Tragic about your neighbor, though. :(
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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    What I like about the Mazda5 is it's the only minivan you can get with a manual transmission. The "Nagare" styling on the 2011 model kills it, though, just awful.

    We really like our 2007 Mazda 5, it is small and agile while having a lot of room.
    I saw the "nagare" at the LA Auto show and it is really quite subtle in person.
    I'm surprised nobody else has brought something like this to the US: I think Ford will do so late next year with the C Max.
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    iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited November 2010
    that Toyota is thinking Lexus now for the stretched FT-86 sedan version. If they want the coupe to be the drifter (which makes sense, yes) then this idea has some validity. I'm diggin' my Lancer GTS and how well it's doing in this NE Nevada snow. I'm just gonna hold tight and keep the car, it is only a 2008 model for crying out loud.

    Wow...it really holds da road well. I have to get silly with the pedals and steering to get it to go off on an ice glide. And that just brings me back to 16 y's old driving Dad's '66 VW Fastback in to landscape rockery in Lynnwood, WA, on a wild Friday night. That did it...I've driven like a man 50 years older ever since that! :blush:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,159
    >Should rhyme with eleven though

    Toyota's still sellin' in 2011.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,159
    edited November 2010
    Honda can offer help on transmissions and on soundproofing along with road noise control :P

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited November 2010
    Honda can offer help on transmissions and on soundproofing along with road noise control ...

    ...and GM can offer marketing with apple pie and dancers, as well as suspensions for really floaty rides -- as well as how to raise $billions in public funding for new adventures!
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Yeah, that's a big attraction, but after ~20 months, her broken clutch leg is still healing so ....

    besides, you have all that urban traffic in your neighborhood.....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,159
    >...and GM can offer marketing with apple pie and dancers

    Toyota has already used "apple pie" and "American dancers" to sell their product. They have tried to Americanize themselves.

    Toyota should look at some of the strategies GM used through the used and avoid those techniques. Apparently, toyota is a slow learned based on observations from 2002 to current date. However, toyota has avoided the UAW union successfully, and that's a good thing.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Toyota has already used "apple pie" and "American dancers" to sell their product.

    I guess I didn't see dancers at last year's auto show for Toyota, that doesn't mean they haven't used them. Which venue was that at? How about the apple pie? I do remember the jingle playing during baseball games a few years ago "Motherhood, Apple Pie, and Chevrolet". I have missed Toyota's use of apple pie.

    Toyota should look at some of the strategies GM used through the used and avoid those techniques. Apparently, toyota is a slow learned based on observations from 2002 to current date. However, toyota has avoided the UAW union successfully, and that's a good thing.

    Well I wouldn't call 2002-2010 slow if we calibrate against GM :P .

    Agree about avoiding the union and the benefits of that.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,340
    edited November 2010
    'Will Toyota's still be sellin' in 2011?' :P
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    They used to have a terrible tune that is still stuck in my head about "baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet."... Of course the fact that I can't get it out of my head all these years later means the guy who wrote it was an advertising genius.

    Maybe we'll get "football, hamburgers, pumpkin pie and Toyota."..... Just doesn't have the same ring to it.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    A tire shop would know, and should warn buyers. They cost more, so I bet the profit margin is bigger.

    Agreed, but most people don't consult a tire shop when buying a new car...or used one. When re-shoe-ing, however, yes, I think the tire dealer should offer options, but fully explain all the pros and cons.

    I've heard so many horror stories there's no way I'd want them. Higher up front cost, more unsprung weight, stiffer ride, low tread life, high replacement cost, limited availability (and not all shops are even equipped to mount them!), the list goes on

    Well, other than those, there aren't many disadvantages...

    On the other hand, the advantage of being able to continue after having a flat in a rough area of a city, or for one who is unable to change a flat (disabled, small build person, young female, etc.) may be enough justification for one to use run-flats.

    Personally, I'm not too wild about having an unsecured spare rattling around in my already "rather small" BMW trunk. But, that's just me. I was fully aware of the run-flat issues welll ahead of buying my BMWs. I was willing to accept them.
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    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Remember See the USA, in a Chevrolet.... sung by Dinah Shore?
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Honda can offer help on transmissions and on soundproofing along with road noise control

    Umm, seriously? I would say all of those are Honda weak points. I would take a Toyota automatic all day long before I would consider a Honda automatic, and whenever people ask me, I strictly advise against buying a used Honda automatic. WAY too much risk with one of those fragile things.

    Honda COULD teach Toyota a thing or two about making a car that is not a rolling couch, but I don't think it's worth the risk of Toyota sucking the rest of the goodness out of Honda along the way.

    For the same reason, it worried me a little when Toyota took a 16% stake in Subaru, but so far it seems to be OK - Toyota is letting Subaru continue its own development programs for the mechanicals.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    How about "sumo, sushi, mochi, and Toyota?"
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    See the USA in your Chevrolet
    America is asking you to call
    Drive your Chevrolet through the USA
    America's the greatest land of all

    On a highway, or a road along the levy
    Performance is sweeter, nothing can beat her
    Life is completer in a Chevy

    So make a date today to see the USA
    And see it in your Chevrolet

    Traveling East, Travelling West
    Wherever you go Chevy service is best
    Southward or North, near place or far
    There's a Chevrolet dealer for your Chevrolet car

    So make a date today to see the USA
    And see it in your Chevrolet.
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    The whole song! I'm impressed.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2010
    Ah, life in the UP. About the only place we need to drive anymore is the grocery (it's only 1.5 miles, but we're lazy about toting all that stuff back). Yesterday we walked to breakfast, a gift shop and the thrift store, and later on my wife walked to the post office, bank and library. It's quicker to walk down and pay the utility bills than find an envelope and stamp. Good for the leg too. Some guy has a street legal ATV here - we need an electric Toyota golf cart for the grocery run. Did I mention you can buy a decent house here for what a loaded up Sienna costs? Bring your own job though.

    More people like us and Toyota would go broke.

    I'm liking the still selling stuff. :-)
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Nice!

    Were the climate a touch better you'd have me tempted. Well, that and the nasty little thing of me needing regular access to some pretty special medical care. I'm still counting on getting to be an old fezo but it takes more care than your average bear.

    I'm getting a pretty good clue as to where you are. I'd guess at an actual town but I know you are withholding that.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I could easily do all my shopping in a golf cart if they were legal here. Sounds like our kind of community. Library, PO and groceries. We also have an ACE and TrueValue in our little town. And 7 Mexican eateries that are all good. Life in small towns is great. Sounds like yours is even less than our 15,000.
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    We're at about 25,000 and unfortunately too much of it is concentrated in a development. Had I the chance to do it over again I'd have located in the old downtown where indeed one could get around by golf cart and do most of what you want 9though traffic wouldn't really allow it).
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Most of our 15k residents are on one acre minimum lots. A few condos and apts along the main street in town. An acre keeps you far enough away from your neighbors to not be annoyed by their choice in music.

    How about "Toyota be Revvin' in 2011" Not that I believe that.... :blush:
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,185
    Are you in the witness protection program or something? :shades:

    I can walk to pretty much any amenity I need, but I live in a more dense downtown area...if I was in a more distant suburb, a car would be pretty much required unless I had all day to do simple errands.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2010
    I'm hiding from Rocky; otherwise he'll stop by and and force me to park a Buick and a Ford pickup in the garage (actually I could just swap cars with the in-laws, cause that's what they have. They swapped their Bimmer when they moved here since they didn't think they could get it fixed).

    Fez, my wife is driving her mom an hour over to the eye specialist right this minute, so yeah, it's like Mexico. Take two aspirin and get to a plane or something. We do have the Ace and True Value though. No Mexican food though. I think we need some Latino immigrants to enliven the place and get some jobs going.

    There is a Toyota dealer in Marquette and one down in Iron Mountain. :-)
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    A Mexican would freeze solid up there! Of course you have no Mexican food! You could probably find a nice Norwegian place....

    Is Marquette the "big city" from where you are? Not like there are lots of candidates. Maybe the Soo would be the other but it's not like that's big either.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,116
    I'm dating myself here, but I always liked the "See the USA..." and "Building a Better Way to See the USA" Chevy ad campaigns. Even in the early '70's, they'd show a clean-cut family next to their gleaming new Impala or Malibu, in front of some place of American historical importance or geographical beauty. I thought it was effective.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Toyota has ... tried to Americanize themselves.

    avoided the UAW union successfully, and that's a good thing

    I have never agreed with you more.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, other than those, there aren't many disadvantages...

    Thought of one more - much less selection. Very few tire brands sell them. You'll also have far fewer fitments if you want to keep the OE size.

    For sure there are advantage to run-flats, just not worth it for me.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree - the last Honda I rented had too much road noise. The last couple, actually. Yodas are far more isolated.

    I don't imagine Honda and Toyota collaborating much at all. Neither one would benefit much, except maybe Honda using HSD instead of their mild hybrids.

    Did you guys see the Insight got a price cut, along with de-contenting? Navi is no longer standard, cheaper cloth, 2 speaker base stereo, but they got the cost under $19k with freight.

    It needed some help - the Prius outsells it nearly 10 to 1.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    How about "Toyota be Revvin' in 2011" Not that I believe that....

    In that case how about:

    Unwanted Revvin' in 2011?

    :D
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