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You're joking right? This thread is about Toyota. It's not about Ford or GM or VW. Read the title.
The Toyota presentation yesterday in Detroit was much more innovative than any other maker's glitz about single vehicles. It laid out the whole corporate strategy for the next 10-20 years. No maker will have 8 new dedicated hybrids hitting the streets in the next 1 to 4 years. That's in addition to the G3 Prius and the updates to the HH and the TCH.
That's innovation. Maybe it doesn't fit your personal view but that's life, everybody can't be satisfied all the time. Life goes on.
BTW I love the Ford Touch interfaces. But I don't go over the to Ford boards and tell them how wonderful Toyota is.
Not having seen the presentation, was there any mention of hydrogen fuel cells or hydrogen in any form in their future?
Couldn't have said it better myself. I don't see diesel ever catching on in a big way in the US.
Anyway, my point was that there is more to Toyota today than a spitball war over sales with GM. They still need to focus on getting the quality back up, which they should maybe do before pumping out new hybrid models. And it wouldn't hurt to suspend the relentless cost-cutting for a little while, IMO.
Now tell me, will there be a hybrid Corolla? I have mentioned the proposed Yaris hybrid in a couple of spots, and can't find anyone who thinks that would be much of an idea. OTOH, the new Focus and new Civic launch this year, and a hybrid Corolla would be a good way to compete with them, given that the last update of the Corolla was somewhat underwhelming.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Toyota is on record as saying that it can bring this technology to market affordably by the next Generation of vehicles in 2015. Honda is going in the same direction with the FCHV Clarity.
These can be on the roads and running well before affordable BEVs. But just like BEVs it's an infrastructure problem; charging stations that'll get you up to 100 miles or hydrogen fueling stations that can get you up to 450 miles?
You saw the hybrid Yaris yesterday, FT-CH concept, but it'll be called the Prius-something. It will be the first of the 8 new dedicated hybrids. As I said several pages back now what Toyota is going to do is use the marketing hammer that is the Prius name. Torrance has been fighting to get Toyota's agreement on this and now apparently it has been given.
Read the presentation. In addition there is this Toyota video for the new concept
The bigger issue as I see it is that Toyota now agrees with the US Govt that petro-fuels are absolutely going to be insufficient in the relatively near term to power the vehicles of the world as it grows and expands. I'd say that the sudden movements by the governments in Europe and China as well to accelerate low emissions/low fuel usage technologies is a further confirmation of the data and scenarios that they're privvy to seeing that we are not.
Toyota however is the first huge industrial company to come out and state that it's future strategy is planned around the scenario that petro-fuel will either run short for the driving public and/or that the driving public will see pricing run up so high that it causes economic hardship to the point that it turns away from auto's.
Neither situation is good for a huge international giant in the auto business. Toyota is telling everyone that in the event that these scenario's do come sooner rather than later that it will have options for the public, options that don't rely solely on petro-fuel. That is innovation on a huge scale.
This is a huge statement IMO that no other company of this size has ever made.
I think they've wisely decided that hydrogen is a non-starter.
Toyota will install brake override systems to prevent runaway vehicles
How do you say "better late than never" in Japanese?
We spin it as "wonderful." It's the best thing ever. It's the way everybody should be doing it.
Nothing to see here. Everybody move on! (translated: we don't want to talk about that!)
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Prius has won all sorts of Awesome awards.
Prius ushered in the Era of Economy.
Prius has record for most miles on a tank of gas.
Fuel economy in Prius = Awesome.
Resale Value in Prius = Awesome.
Awesome and Prius go together quite well.
Prius has won all sorts of Awesome awards.
Prius ushered in the Era of Economy.
Prius has record for most miles on a tank of gas.
Fuel economy in Prius = Awesome.
Resale Value in Prius = Awesome.
Awesome and Prius go together quite well.
I wouldn't dispute those facts, but the car doesn't interest me. Well, I find the technology interesting, but the car itself itself does nothing for me. I don't blame anyone for wanting one if their primary goal is to use less fuel. The Prius seems to be extremely well built and engineered, but it's just to boring for my tastes.
Gas isn't nearly expensive enough (yet) for me to change my ways. I don't drive enough during the week with only me in the car to justify the expense of an additional car for commuting purposes. I usually drive maybe 50 miles M-F, but on the weekends I need the room and towing ability of a BOF SUV. I often drive 150-250 miles on the weekends to and from the lake during the summer (a Prius won't haul our stuff or tow our boat).
Gas will have to get to the $6+/gal range for something like a Prius to make sense for me. Even then I want something that is remotely rewarding to drive. Good fuel economy alone won't do it, if that's all I cared about, I'll just drive my electric Club Car everywhere.
"Newsflash! Toyota will equip all vehicles with a lever that will allow the vehicle to be shifted into neutral under any circumstance, thus allowing drivers to stop any unintended acceleration. Said levers will be located either between the front seats or on the steering column. The neutral shift function may be multiplexed with the forward and reverse selection option to reduce implementation costs. Other automakers are rumored to follow suit.
Oh yeah, shifting the car into neutral would require the driver to actually know how to drive. Never mind."
I know 6 Prius owners. My observation is that they don't accelerate very well going uphill or up grade when merging into Interstate traffic going 70 or more. Maybe even 60 or so.
My first economy car was a Datsun B210 in 1975.
John
not broken, she is taking a lot of short trips with the heat on, so the gas engine is running.
Toyota Adjusts Yaris Future
January 06, 2010 / By Paul Horrell
Click to view Gallery
The 2009 Toyota YarisToyota's subcompact cars plans have been knocked sideways by the recession. The company was planning a new generation version of its Toyota Yaris that would feature the innovative engineering of the tiny iQ, but it will now instead rebody the current Yaris (pictured) for 2012.
However, in search of ultra-economy, Toyota will make a hybrid version -- a full hybrid, as opposed to the mild-hybrid system in the Honda Insight. Toyota plans to release hybrids across its range. In Europe it is launching an Auris -- the European Corolla-equivalent hatchback -- with Hybrid Synergy Drive.
......The original plan was to design a range of subcompacts longer than the iQ but with the same packaging solutions and front platform, yielding a very spacious five-seat car, and an additional seven-seater a little bigger than a Honda Fit. But now, the need to save money on retooling Yaris plants means the current car will get a straightforward rebody.
http://www.motortrend.com/future/112_0912_toyota_yaris_future/index.html
I was not talking about that FT-CH monstrosity they pushed at the show. I am doubtful that will ever see the light of day, and if it doesn't that might be for the best.....
And they could sure do themselves a favor, as I said before, if one of those 8 promised hybrids is the Corolla. If hybrid-hating Europe can have a hybrid Corolla, why can't we?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My uncle had the best reason: he bought his used because it happened to have the sticker for the HOV lane in southern California. Apparently, using the car pool lane alone in a Prius is Awesome.
Read this article. It tells us that Europe's government taxes gasoline at a much higher rate to get people to buy diesel and it talks about how the automakers in the usa are going to get more technical with the gas engines to get better performance/ gas mileage like direct injection, turbo, supercharger.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4722851
Yes, and in the U.S. our gov. taxes diesel higher than gasoline to get people to buy gasoline ! That tells me that there is plenty of oil still available and that our gov is not interested in decreasing our imports of oil.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
NEW YORK – Toyota said Thursday it is recalling 2.3 million vehicles in the U.S. to fix accelerator pedals that can become stuck, the latest in a string of quality problems that have bedeviled the Japanese automaker.
The latest move comes just months after Toyota Motor Corp. recalled 4.2 million vehicles over concerns that accelerator pedals could become lodged under floor mats, causing sudden acceleration.
Another 2.3 million Toyotas recalled for accelerator sticking problem.
Maybe we're getting a little closer to the truth on the unintended acceleration exclusive of a few floor mat-caused issues. There's a mechanical problem in the linkage!!!
3.8 million here. 2.3 million there. Pretty soon they'll have recalled a whole lot of cars. More than any other manufacturer?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Toyota Recalls 2.3 Million Vehicles to Address Sticking Accelerator Pedal (Straightline)
Here's the Toyota Press Release.
I don't recall anyone in here actually having a sticky pedal - did I miss somebody?
and since we first started arguing about whether there was a much-deeper/much-more-dangerous problem than floor mats, there
4 more deaths the day after Christmas.
60 more "incidents" since then.
it's tragic.
I'll be sure to never buy a toyota and will continue to advise my friends/family who own toyotas to sell/trade them immediately for a car designed/tested by much better engineers and/or engineering processes. the toyota engineers ought to be put on suicide watch, they must be quite depressed to know what has resulted from their mistakes.
Until Thursday, Toyota had denied that there was a mechanical or electronic problem with the pedals. The company said the problem was “rare” but could result in a worn gas pedal being difficult to depress, slow to spring back or stuck partially depressed.
“Our investigation indicates that there is a possibility that certain accelerator pedal mechanisms may, in rare instances, mechanically stick in a partially depressed position or return slowly to the idle position,” Irv Miller, a group vice president of Toyota Motors Sales U.S.A., said.
--http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/business/22toyota.html
Move on. There's nothing more to see here! :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
According to Toyota, the condition is rare but can occur when the pedal mechanism becomes worn.
These are the models affected by the recall:
2009-2010 RAV4
2009-2010 Corolla
2009-2010 Matrix
2005-2010 Avalon
2010 Highlander
2007-2010 Tundra
2008-2010 Sequoia
There have been many complaints in the news and on NHTSA about sticky gas pedals. It was always blamed on the driver or the floor mats. At least up till now. Some investigation must have caught Toyota off guard. They have a very poorly designed accelerator in their newer vehicles. They all need to be replaced.
2009-2010 Matrix
I notice the Corolla and Matrix are listed separately. Someone here acted like they were the same car in the past when I suggested they were two unique vehicles.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What's odd is that the biggest discussion about unintended acceleration around here is the Toyota Sienna Uncontrolled Acceleration one.
There's also these:
Tacoma unintentional acceleration (no Taco on the recall).
Unintended Acceleration (Lexus RX)
Other makes are represented too:
Anyone experience Sudden Unintended Acceleration in a Santa Fe
Lumina Unintended Acceleration
I am really disappointed with how far in quality many of the newer Toyota's built after 1998 or so have dropped. However I still plan to purchase a 2010 Yaris. It is a simple small displacement econobox car that I think is still a safe bet. If Toyota does not modernize the engine in the Yaris for 2011, maybe I will buy one then. But sadly I would be very hesitant to buy a newly designed engine from Toyota. Never thought I would ever say that. I have been monitoring Yaris forums since 2006 and have not heard of any major issues.
interesting interview with a guy whose camry took off, but he was smart enough to put it in neutral (learned it from the news) and actually coasted into a toyota dealer, and had the service manager see the car with smoking brakes and racing engine. And no mat interfering.
said that the repair consisted of replacing some electronic sensors? something like that.
so I guess the conspiracy theorists that thought there was more to the problem than mats might not have just been paranoid!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
and for the guy that mntioned quality, Honda has been having a tonof problems. Trannys still a major issue, and brakes on Accords. Plus some other stuff.
anecdotal, but quite a few people that have been loyal Honda owners are swearing off them for good.
I am actually in that camp (own 3), but if I had to replace any of them, it wouldn't be with a new Honda. Only possibility would be a CRV, but I doubt I would even go there.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Which newscast had this story? Local station? I'd like to see if it's on their website.
At least the service writers couldn't say that there was no sign of what was wrong because it wouldn't do it for them...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
"The company had blamed floor mats for many of the acceleration incidents. An ABC News investigation, however, found that many drivers and safety experts rejected this explanation, asking instead if there was an issue with the electronic components that control acceleration. "
:::Isn't this what some of have been saying here? The earlier info and anecdotal evidence didn't pass the smell test as being only the pedal caught by extra mats on the floor. :sick:
However they were brushed off by Toyota and salemen as just a customer problem.
To wit: "Dozens of other Toyota owners had made similar claims about electronic problems with their cars, unconnected to floor mates, over the last few years, but they were routinely dismissed by Toyota as unfounded."
"Toyota says the recall of the "sticking gas pedals" covers Haggerty's problem, but he says his gas pedal was never stuck. "
Oddly, we have a second problem finally admitted to by Toyo. However, this owner is saying his pedal didn't stick, which is the current excuse, instead something electronic didn't work right.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
He showed the "bill" and the reporter looked at it. He didn't call it a work order implying warranty payment.
He bought another possibly faulty set of parts and had to pay. :P
I would consider the brake pads, calipers, rotors shot on that car and needing replacement.
I would consider the transmission ruined from shifting into Drive with the motor revving at what might have been rev-limited RPMs.
If I were he, I would be asking for a replacement car. However, I wouldn't accept a confidentiality clause as part of accepting a new car. That would be a tactic for Toyo to use to get him out of the any further interviews. I can see 20/20, Dateline, 60 Minutes all wanting to do a 12-minute segment with this.
If
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
How much more of this can Toyota take?
Wrong question.
Let me put it this way: GM has never issued a recall for the plastic manifold issue. Chrysler and Ford never issued a recall for their epidemic transmission problems. Honda has never issued a recall for their V6/5AT issues.
Auto scribes and enthusiasts can’t seem to understand this: the general public is not really bothered when they get a recall letter for their otherwise-reliable Camry. They’ll just take it in at the next oil change and be done with it. Until Camries are stranding people on the side of the road or costing them thousands of dollars to replace blown engines and transmissions, the general public will not care because these are not quality-affecting recalls.
We get recalls for laptop batteries, child cribs, stereo power cords, coffee grinders, etc. We don’t see these are “quality issues”, either. Consumers just don’t care, and rightly so. Only enthusiasts who treat recall counts as a kind of scorecard (and the writers who play to that sentiment) are bothered by this.
According to all objective measures, Toyotas up and and including current models are actually very reliable, teething issues on a few models excepted. Until that changes, and it shows no sign of it, Toyota’s “reputation” is not really at risk.
My sentiments exactly. I'm not going to panic and dump my Camrys (which are older and not affected by the recalls anyway). BTW, objective measures include Consumer Reports (I know, go ahead and sneer!), TrueDelta and JD Powers.
Transmission problems don't kill people. Sticking accelerators, cars that catch on fire, cars with no brakes, those can kill and injure people. That is what gets recalled. The feds don't care if you bought a piece of crap or not, or if the warranty isn't long enough, Caveat emptor. But safety issues, like you mentioned in the rest of your post - laptop batteries that explode, strollers that whack off fingers, and of course cars with sticking throttles, no brakes, or that catch on fire, are safety issues. That is why they are recalled.
Toyotas up and and including current models are actually very reliable, teething issues on a few models excepted.
Yup, their engines can run at full speed for a long time before the car crashes.
All this high tech stuff reminds me of all the money the U.S. spent back during the space race to develop a pen that would write in zero gravity...the Russians just used a pencil....
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I had a spring break on an old Ford long ago. Those American brand cars just never seem to last. :sick: I hooked it around something else and drove it home. All I had to do was lift up the pedal with my toe under it when the spring didn't bring it all the way.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,