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As for the 2010 model, it doesn't score as well as either the Toyota Camry or Honda Accord according to the IIHS, which conducts more demanding tests than the government. Note that the Sonata is near the bottom of the list. The Camry and Accord are much higher up, although neither earns the Top Safety Pick award. Even more telling, look at these rollover ratings from the IIHS. The Camry has the strongest roof; Sonata and Optima are dead last.
If you have results on the '11 model Sonata, then please post links!
How about the powertrain? The Camry is a tier 1 vehicle with 20 more horses in V6 trim than a tier 2 V6 equipped Sonata of 2010 (checked both with same 2010 year specs).
Those 20 more horses put the Camry in another league from the Sonata, with no loss in fuel mileage.
First, the facts as reported by today's New York Times:
On Dec. 26, a 2008 Toyota Avalon -- one of the cars under recall -- crashed just outside of Dallas. A police officer in Southlake, Tex., Roderick Page, said in an interview that "for undetermined reasons, the vehicle left the main roadway, and went through a metal pipe fence, striking a tree and causing the vehicle to flip
and land upside down in a pond."
All four people in the car died. "There was no evidence that they attempted to hit the brake or slow down," he said. "Honestly, my reaction is, 'Wow.' "
Two weeks later, an investigator from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration visited Southlake to inspect the car, accompanied by a Toyota engineer. Mr. Page said one factor they immediately ruled out was the floor mats, which were in the trunk.
Before we go further, let's crank up the old time machine....
Suddenly, it's February 1960. In a small midwestern town, a veteran police officer walking the beat in the predawn hours spots a series of mysterious colored lights moving along the eastern horizon. The lights are moving faster than any airplane or new-fangled jet that the officer has seen. Suddenly, the lights make an abrupt right angle turn, head straight up from the horizon and disappear.
The afternoon papers report in bold headlines, "FLYING SAUCER SEEN OVER SMALL MIDWESTERN TOWN." A 13-year-old boy, who's into space travel, sci-fi, and is an accomplished model rocket builder, sees the headlines and excitedly says at the kitchen table, "Golly Mom and Pop, little green men from the planet Zargon are planning to invade planet earth! After all, everyone knows policemen always tell the truth."
(to be continued, in memory of the wonderful storyteller that he was, the great Mackabee)
The Toyota Camry that was featured on ABC Nightly news with the surging accelerator was found to have a bad throttle body unit. At least that is what the dealer replaced on his vehicle. Nothing was said about floor mats or sticking gas pedal,
http://finance.yahoo.com/insurance/article/108724/toyota-slow-to-awaken-to-deadl- y-problem?mod=insurance-autos&sec=topStories&pos=4&asset=&ccode=
Note the very first part of the article where an Off Duty California Highway Patrol officer, with his family on board, is unable to control his vehicle...and the families final moments are caught on 911 tape. If an experienced Highway Patrol officer is unable to overcome this malfunction, what chance does the average Joe or Jane have???
This thing is going to cost Toyota Billions, as the lawyers begin to line up what will be years of lawsuits. If anyone has any investments in Toyota, they would be wise to sell now...while that stock is still worth something.
Since the poster wasn't there at the occurances, there's no way for the poster to know that those are the only causes of acceleration that's unintended in toyotas.
Is there a link to proof that there are no other factors? Many people have looked at the descriptions of unintended acceleration and determined that there is something more going on. To wit cases where the vehicles just lunge forward from a dead stop. Can't be a floor mat stuck. Can't be the pedal not returning due to CTS's poor sensor build after the pedal's being pushed down because the pedal wasn't being pushed.
Not sure what talking about another poster Rockylee or UFO's in post #4695 have to do with the unintended acceleration, so I won't respond to those.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Of course I wasn't there; nothing can be proved absolutely. But there is something called the "scientific method," and I'm going to illustrate it in my continuation (tonight, after work).
To wit cases where the vehicles just lunge forward from a dead stop. Yes, and how can we be certain of all of the facts in these alleged incidents? This was part of the Audi 5000 dilemma.
I'm surprised they are trying to say it was Bush's fault! (Just a little humor, please save the flames for Forget Bushisms, etc.
This is what the pedal problems in re the return action sticking are all about--video of both pedal styles.
The Truth About Cars dissembles both pedal supplier examples.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You are correct this is just one instance. However what do you think the odds are another driver will have the cool head to call his or hers Toyota dealer while the vehicle is racing out of control to tell them they are experiencing a surging problem and than pull into there ( engine racing ) parking lot where the service manager is waiting. I think your "only one car theory" will hold up for a very long time.
I am not convinced that most historical cases of UA are the car's fault. Cars were having UA back when I started driving in the mid-60s. The usual cause was foot on the gas pedal and not the brake. The reaction to moving when you think you're pressing the brake pedal is perfectly normal, push harder.
As far as the comment about a police officer not being able to handle a UA. My father was a Virginia State Trooper and a cousin was a county sheriff for 27 years. It's a fact that many law officers are NOT car people and at least as many are NOT gun people. They spend a lot of time in a car and carrying a sidearm, but they aren't interested in either really and do not train and prepare for emergencies. You would think they would want to master their tools, but they all don't. To them cars and guns are just simple appliances that require no thought to use.
If I was in a runaway car doing 100+, well, I wouldn't be because I'd already have it in neutral. Or park, but the driveline would not be moving me down the road.
John
John
I am really sorry to hear Mac passed away. I always enjoyed his postings
He was a kind-hearted man with a very positive outlook right up to the point when he had to stop posting. Too bad I never got to meet him as he lived in the same state as me (VA) and his dealership was about 200 miles away.
If this is a real problem, there could be more in the future. We'll just have to see. All I know is that when I took driver's ed in 1969 there was a section about what to do in case of emergencies. One of these emergencies, along with blowouts, skidding, and impending head-on collisions (!), was a stuck gas pedal.
We've come a long way, baby, but unfortunately not in the right direction. :sick: I took driver's ed in 1986, and they didn't teach us any of that stuff. Heck, they didn't even teach us about left lane camping and keeping right except to pass...my grandparents, of all people taught me that one!
One safety precaution I always remember though, from watching a film, is that if you're stopped and waiting to make a left turn, keep your wheels straight until you're actually ready to go. Otherwise, if you get rear-ended and you have the wheels already facing left, you'll shoot out into oncoming traffic. I've noticed though, every time I see a cop with someone pulled over, the police cruiser always has its wheels turned facing traffic, which seems stupid to me. If the wheels were turned to the right and the car got rear-ended, it would get pushed off the road, rather than back into traffic. And depending on how close the cop is to the car he pulled over, it seems that with the wheels pointing toward the road, his own car is more likely to either run over him, or push the car he pulled over so that it slides over him.
I wonder if they're taught to do this, despite the concerns you mentioned. Maybe the theory is that if they get an urgent call for assistance elsewhere, it's supposedly quicker for them to get moving again (similar to how fire trucks and ambulances are always parked head out in their garages).
I can add an anecdote to the pile - spoke with my mom last night, she will be buying a car this year, and was until this week looking at Toyotas. Now she will be limiting her search to Fords, as a direct consequence of what she is seeing on the news.
And she's a baby boomer AND a multiple Toyota owner in the past! She's supposed to be Toyota's bread and butter for goodness' sake!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Your Toyota is operating as designed, idling up when the A/C compressor kicks in.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Enjoy!
Looks, how about how it drives with the sudden acceleration even when the pedals are not involved; checkout the 2011 Sonata....amazing!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Thank you for the correction.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
karen@edmunds.com
We are specifically looking for someone in NY at the moment.
I'd say the average Jane or Joe has a good chance measuring higher than a Highway Patrol officer. I'd give the licensed (and therefore passed both written and field driving tests) driver more credit.
The HP officer is just a glorified overpaid POWER HUNGRY REVENUE CZAR. Even officer's lie, cheat, steal, panick, and commit negligence.
I took driver's Ed around 1994 and they did teach us about emergency situations, which of course DID include what to do if the accelerator pedal gets stuck.
I think the problem is lousy teachers or lousy students that forget what they learned once they get their license. :P
And the reaction to the Los Angeles Times article is a classic. :shades:
Interview with the President of Toyota
I had trouble following just how the parts were going to be affected. I need to see it in 3-D.
A 2nd lawsuit filed, but in Canada, about the throttle system used on Toyota.
throttle body and text
The text explains that after the first suit, a US suit, was filed, toyota quietly announced that the brake over throttle fix would be added.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Sad? Your kidding right? I felt bad for Matt...the President of Toyota sounded ridiculous and confused :confuse:
Says alot about the accuracy of what he was trying to imply...talk about mixing your words up in a critical interview.
And the way he handled the LAT questions...OH MY!
The camera work wasn't good enough to see the body language much of the time while the questions were being asked. He appears to be speaking from a script. He answered around the questions sometimes from his script. He has very controlled movements, but the camera wasn't on him during the asking of the question to see his reaction. The camera was trying to make Laurer the star rather than letting us see Lentz's reaction to the question.
When he wasn't on script, he stumbled.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Honestly, I think anybody who pays $5K or more for a 10 year old Accord or Camry with 150,000 miles is a fool, but yeah, I've seen the KBB figures. I ended up getting $2,000 for my Intrepid. I took a slight hit because it already had minor body damage. I think they dinged me around $300 for that.
Still, I don't regret buying that Intrepid, versus a Camry or Accord of that same era. For one thing, it was more comfortable for me than a CamCord of that timeframe. And even for a base model, it was a decent performer and had a good level of standard equipment, and a nice interior for its price point. I had thought about buying another Intrepid to replace it, but chose not too, simply because I figured it was time to experience something different.
Yeah, the latest Legacy matches all the FWD boys for fuel economy, because of the CVT. Makes it by far the nicest choice IMO, as long as you don't REVILE the CVT as I do personally. Certainly it's very competitive pricewise, powerwise, and featurewise. Not quite as much room as the big boys like Camry/Malibu, but not far off and equal in size to the likes of Fusion, Mazda6, etc.
The manual does fine with FE too. Our Legacy wagon 5-speed seems to compete well with respect to fuel economy. Ours is an '05 and is considerably smaller than the FuLan/CamCord crowd. I think its about on par with the previous Mazda6. And its fun when it snows.
Ultimate Toyota Recall Guide