I'm going to go out on a limb here, anyone else think that this may be politically motivated and that this is being blown out of proportion to take Toyota down a notch or two, maybe to help save the domestics?
I am not a lawyer so my question is : isn't it illegal to sell if they had prior knowledge of recall ? does this give a customer who already bought a recalled Toyota, right to return his/her car back to dealer to get his/her money back?
As a skeptic, I wouldn't take it that far. Still, LaHood comes off to me as something of a blowhard, as illustrated in this opinion excerpt from MacLean's, Canada's national weekly current affairs magazine:
OPINION
How dare they tell us the truth?
by Colby Cosh
Maybe it's true: you can put a Republican in a Democratic cabinet, but you can't stop him from trashing science. On Friday the Highway Loss Data Institute issued a paper [stating] that their insurance-claims information offered no significant indication that cellular bans in California, New York, Connecticut, and the District of Columbia had done a lick of good. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood took to the web in a state of high dudgeon, complaining that the study "irresponsibly suggests that laws banning cell phone use while driving have zero effect on the number of crashes on our nation's roadways."
Leaving aside whether it can be "irresponsible" for a study to report disappointing or unexpected data--although, why, yes, now that you mention it, that's something the definition of scientific responsibility positively requires!...
...One way or another, there can be no excuse for LaHood to resort to the argument from anecdote in an attack on the world's most important highway-safety authority.
The Highway Loss Data Institute is an affiliate of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. When I first learned of LaHood's reaction through a press release by NHTSA, I was dumbfounded. Every other news report of the study was either positive or at least neutral regarding the outcome. The IIHS itself said the data were perplexing and further research would continue.
But LaHood has been leading a high-profile crusade against distracted driving, especially in regard to cell phone use. Therefore, some inconvenient facts apparently got in the way of his beliefs; hence the tirade.
Generally the way it works is that a problem is found by the manufacturer, either on the assembly line or through consumer complaints. If the problem is deemed "safety-related," the manufacturer must take corrective action on the production line, and instruct dealers holding unsold cars to make the needed repairs. Consumers already owning the recalled vehicles are notified by mail to return to the dealer for the repairs.
Sometimes, a remedy isn't available right away (new parts have to be designed, manufactured, and shipped). In this case the recall letters still get mailed, but consumers are told when the replacement parts will be available at dealerships. In rare cases where changes can't be made immediately on the assembly line, then the manufacturer has to stop any further delivery to dealers. (Cars can still be made, but stockpiled.)
It is very rare for manufacturers to buy back vehicles as a remedy. But it does happen when the vehicle can't be fixed, as can be true for serious rust issues.
but one of my question is is there any punishment if they knew (lets say in october or december) they were gonna call the vehicles ,but still kept selling till january. I bought one in the mid december & I feel like I ve kinda of been railroaded. Although I may be wrong, but I really do think Toyota knew that they were gonna make huge recalls way before december imo. Thx for the reply anyway...
anyone else think that this may be politically motivated
I have been tagged as a conspiracy theorist before, so I will agree. Government agencies do the bidding the bosses over them. I mentioned it before. The Congress and President were embarrassed by Toyota getting the most sales in C4Cs. I don't know what they expected. They did write the rules, goofy as they were.
WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Department of Transportation is looking into whether Toyota Motor Corp.'s problems with unintended acceleration can be traced to defects in the electronic controls rather than just the mechanical problems cited by the automaker, a Transportation official said today.
....When asked whether the federal review includes possible electronic problems with Toyota vehicles, a Transportation official who asked not to be identified responded in an e-mail, “Yes.”
.....But Safety Research & Strategies, a consulting firm, said in a posting on its Web site: “Neither floor mats nor sticking accelerator pedals explain many, many incidents” of unintended acceleration.
“By all appearances, electronics are playing a significant role in the problems," Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, said in an interview. The Transportation Department investigation “has needed to happen for some time,'' Kane said.
The investigation should cover 2002-06 Camry cars and 2005-07 Tacoma pickups, both of which have been the subject of numerous consumer complaints suggesting possible electronic defects, he said.
Stepping back from the situation a bit to take a larger view, it does seem improbable to me that so many SUA incidents (reports of which began quite a while back) have been caused by extra or loose floor mats and/or worn-out gas pedals.
I think Toyota needed a quick fix to get the green light from the feds to start sales again. They are estimating they lost 20,000 sales in January, and Camry got beaten by Accord and Altima in sales. That was with what, three days of lost sales? There will be more than that this month. They need to get back in business at any cost, I would think.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That was with what, three days of lost sales? There will be more than that this month.
Maybe not though:
"Toyota purchase intent fell from 13.9 percent of Edmunds.com car shoppers to 9.7 percent during the height of the recall frenzy," said Edmunds.com Senior Analyst David Tompkins, PhD. "Toyota purchase intent is back to 11.8 percent and seems to be climbing steadily."
I just meant they will lose at least five sales days this month, because the affected models aren't back on sale yet, are they? The parts aren't even available to resume production until Thursday, and all the affected models on dealer lots will have to be retrofitted before they can be sold.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Feds may hold their feet to the fire and demand an electronic fix for the recalled vehicles. All DBW Toyota vehicles should have brake over ride installed before Toyota gets the green light to sell more vehicles. Why add more problematic vehicles to the road before you fix the ones already out there? Audi survived and came back with a fix when it was not even their screw up. Toyota took their sweet time with the steering issue that was a big embarrassment in Japan. In their rush to be number one they put out a poorly designed DBW system. I say don't cut them any slack. There is no reason to do it.
I just meant they will lose at least five sales days this month
Oh ok.
But it does sounds like they've hit bottom and demand is rising again. Meeting product demand could be a problem. I don't see Barney Frank shutting them down next week but who knows.
btw Gary, Audi is having some fun trying to figure out lag and jumping problems on the Q5. Seems to be software...
Toyota needed a quick fix to get the green light from the feds to start sales again.
That has been Toyota's cover-up approach all along...deny it, blame the supplier, blame the driver, nearly anything possible instead of Toyota standing up and taking responsibility for their own poor quality. Sure says alot about Toyota. :sick:
"The government's review will look at the electronic systems across all manufacturers as well as the possibility that engine operation could be disrupted by electromagnetic interference caused by power lines or other sources."
Other sources? Oh right, it's Bush's fault, I forgot.. Of course there's a lot of politics in all of this. They get free air time, free photo ops and lots of press to campaign for whatever office they're running for next.
Poor quality, if it's such a big problem year after year after year then why did we all buy Toyotas? Because it isn't a problem for the vast majority of cars, including the Avalon I've been driving since early '06. Sure, the tires could fall off and the transmission explode tomorrow (I walked to work again today), with 46,000 miles on it anything is possible including continued good operation.
.....But Safety Research & Strategies, a consulting firm, said in a posting on its Web site: “Neither floor mats nor sticking accelerator pedals explain many, many incidents” of unintended acceleration.
“By all appearances, electronics are playing a significant role in the problems," Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, said in an interview. The Transportation Department investigation “has needed to happen for some time,'' Kane said.
The investigation should cover 2002-06 Camry cars and 2005-07 Tacoma pickups, both of which have been the subject of numerous consumer complaints suggesting possible electronic defects, he said.
What baffles me is why SRS is given such a free pass in the media. They have one engineer on the staff (not Kane), and their primary clients are trial attorneys. A little conflict-of-interest here? No one else, not NHTSA, Consumer Reports, or even the Center for Auto Safety are making such strident claims.
I see Kane wants to include my model year Camrys in his investigation wish list. Ok, I only own 2 cars, but in over 114K miles of combined operation, my wife and I have never experienced even the slightest hint of unwanted acceleration or "surging." These older cars do not have the suspect gas pedal design, plus the bottom of the pedal is about an inch higher off the floor than in the current-gen Camry.
They have known about this for years so that would mean they have been selling vehicles that they knew werent safe..
Have they, really? Can you prove it? Just because someone complained that their 20xx Toyota vehicle suddenly lurched forward, doesn't mean that Toyota knew there was an issue with the drive by wire electronics. It comes down to the burden of proof.
Someone posts their "gut feeling that Toyota knew about this for years" and now you post that it's fact. The fire spreads from there.
There is a ton of speculation going on with this issue, and the liberal media has a way of reporting stories that will persuade you one way or another.
Well from my research it has been reported on many models for years, why wouldnt they know about it? Shouldnt they have known about it? I would hope so considering it was and is a big problem..
Have they, really? Can you prove it? Just because someone complained that their 20xx Toyota vehicle suddenly lurched forward
Toyota is no better than any of the other automakers, for listening to customer complaints. The 2004 Prius is a classic example. Well over 100 people experience stalling at high speed. Toyota drug their feet with it until the NHTSA said you have a problem. They finally found their bug and did a fix on them. Since the Prius has come out there have been complaints of surging with accidents and brakes failing causing accidents. Seems like a higher number than just operator error to me. Now Toyota has to address the problems in their newest Prius when they get high profile owners complaining.
>Just because someone complained that their 20xx Toyota vehicle suddenly lurched forward, doesn't mean that Toyota knew there was an issue with the drive by wire electronics.
This is sounding like a toyota salesman or corporate defense. Is there proof that nothing else is wrong? And is there proof that all those acceleration reports that don't fit floor mat impingment and pedals sticking after being partly depressed -- all those other reports -- are over nothing? Frankly, that just doesn't wash with what I read over the past months. And now other reports are coming out that thing the same thing as I.
>It comes down to the burden of proof.
AND we may get to see that burden shortly in the form of congressional hearings and by the NHSTA's result. I suspect the implication that a past worker in NHSTA having been employed by toyota and that reporting may have been twisted and shaped in such a manner as to keep under the radar of the NHSTA's internal alert may have put them on notice--along with several things already about toyota being nonresponsive and being quick to announce things "finished."
Stay around. There's more to see. That's my opinion.
Stay around. There's more to see. That's my opinion.
You ain't seen nothin' yet would be my opinion. People that were snubbed by dealers over the last decade will be empowered to come out and be heard.
My experience is Toyota dealers will give you the run around on the simple things like CD players and tailgate issues. It is catching up to them. And rightly so.
This is sounding like a toyota salesman or corporate defense.
Actually I'm neither as I won't ever own another Toyota, but not because of this issue we're discussing, more so because of local arrogant dealers. I learned a couple years ago that Toyota quality was way over blown. We've got 3 Toyotas in my family still and have had unexpected repairs on each of them, still better than the domestics IMO, but far from bullet proof. My current vehicle is a 2008 Chrysler Sebring.
If you think the news is bad for Toyota now, wait till they crash and burn and shut the factories down for months and months, and lay a bunch of autoworkers off. More job losses will affect us all (not to mention that those Toyota ads you see on here to pay our bills may go away).
I have a feeling that LaHood is going to be taken to the woodshed shortly.
As you pile on, be careful what you wish for. :sick:
If you think the news is bad for Toyota now, wait till they crash and burn and shut the factories down for months and months, and lay a bunch of autoworkers off. More job losses will affect us all (not to mention those Toyota ads you see on here to pay our bills may go away).
Seriously, way to go Toyota! And here I thought Toyota was superior to the other automakers, or at least they wanted us to believe that.
Maybe had they not tried to cover-up this issue over 5 years ago, we wouldn't be paying for all this now.
...could Toyota be so evil as to use these current issues as an excuse to shut down all North American production and move it back to Japan or elsewhere? If Toyota mishandles the way it treats their NA employees during this crisis, their employees might opt for UAW representation after these recalls are resolved.
If Toyota mishandles the way it treats their NA employees during this crisis
What difference does it make at this point, they have already mistreated their owners. Gosh, with all this news coming out in less than a month, I sure feel sorry for their employees; can you imagine some of the stuff they try feeding them to believe???? :sick: :sick:
If I were a Toyota employee, I'd be seriously scared. Are these guys currently laid-off until February 8th? I'm sure Toyota just doesn't have them sitting around or sweeping floors all day.
As the second congressional investigation into Toyota's practices is being launched today, it has surfaced that there have been over 100 reports of problems with the brakes on Priuses, two of which have resulted in crashes with injuries. (per NPR news this morning)
I guess this will be the NEXT thing Toyota has to look into, eh? ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
AND we may get to see that burden shortly in the form of congressional hearings and by the NHSTA's result. I suspect the implication that a past worker in NHSTA having been employed by toyota and that reporting may have been twisted and shaped in such a manner as to keep under the radar of the NHSTA's internal alert
You've been around long enough to know the congressional hearings with be more about strum and drang than getting to the heart of the matter. As for one former NHTSA employee having that much clout is a stretch to believe, unless of course you WANT to believe it.
As the second congressional investigation into Toyota's practices is being launched today, it has surfaced that there have been over 100 reports of problems with the brakes on Priuses, two of which have resulted in crashes with injuries. (per NPR news this morning)
I guess this will be the NEXT thing Toyota has to look into, eh?
Oh No, like they did before, they will probably try and blame the driving saying they are braking to hard or something; maybe its the pedals? :sick:
I know that for you this is very personal and immediate, but in the larger view this is genuinely looking really bad for Toyota's image at this point. Multiple issues, congressional investigations, and multiple recalls for problems that caused crashes, all so close together, will be hard for them to recover from.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Now Toyota has to address the problems in their newest Prius when they get high profile owners complaining.
Are you talking about Steve Wozniak's bogus conplaint? Read the whole story here, then get back with us.
An excerpt:
And there may well be genuine software or electronic glitches out there, but we’d like to see solid evidence of them. Instead, we’re stuck listening to Steve Wozniak’s experience with a faulty cruise control on his Prius. It’s being spun as an example of Toyota’s electronics gremlins, creating confusion and scare-mongering. As if there wasn’t enough of that already.
Where is the proof that Steve Wozniak's complaint is bogus? I kind of missed that. Are you referring to the fact that he mentioned about the cruise control, and you think it has to be about manual acceleration with the pedal?
Questions: is the cruise control CPU+memory+software, a totally separate system from the one that the accelerator uses?
If they are separate systems do they transfer information? I believe you can accelerate with the gas-pedal while in cruise-control, which leads me to strongly believe the systems are 1, or communicating and working together.
Good points from James! For example - The bankruptcy and bailout of GM and Chrysler should have been kept secret from the public. The same with those bailouts of Wall Street. These public embarassments would have never happened if we would become more like the old USSR. :sick:
Now go get a Happy Meal and get back to your regularly scheduled Disney programming. U.S. 21st century theme - Be obese and happy!
Gary says, "My experience is Toyota dealers will give you the run around on the simple things like CD players and tailgate issues. It is catching up to them. And rightly so. "
Oh please Gary. There are [non-permissible content removed] car dealerships of all ilks. Toyota does not have THAT market cornered, unfortunately. It would be nice if ONLY 'Yota dealers did that.
Did you read the whole article? Wozniak has a repeatable problem with the cruise control above 83 mph. It happens every single time he tries it. Stepping on the brake pedal instantly cancels the cruise, as it should.
It's not a mysterious "glitch" occurring once in a blue moon that causes the car to accelerate out of control.
I'd like to see a dealer say they can't duplicate the problem because no road has a speed limit above 80 mph in the US.
So which is it? Does Toyota really know what the fix is for the unintended acceleration problems or not? Apparently the U.S. House of Representatives wants a straight answer. It seems the House is a little upset with official statements made by the beleaguered Japanese automaker because they seem to contradict what Toyota told the House earlier. They're also disturbed by comments they heard from Toyota's U.S. President and COO Jim Lentz while on the Today Show with Matt Lauer.
The latest hearing notice came from the House Energy and Commerce committee, which was already scheduled to hold a hearing on February 25 to "examine the persistent consumer complaints of sudden unintended acceleration in vehicles manufactured by Toyota Motor Corporation," according to committee chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif. They have given Toyota until Friday to answer a few questions about inconsistencies in some of Toyota's official statements.
The House says that Toyota gave assurances that they this issue under control, which don't match up with what Toyota had told them several days earlier. The House Energy and Commerce Committee's Chairman Henry Waxman, and investigation subcommittee chair, Rep. Bart Stupak, want some proof from Toyota to back up those claims by Friday.
"I think it's more likely software in my case that causes it, and I can't cause it every time and every trip, but I am sure it will happen again," Wozniak said.
Be careful with your second-hand reports/sources. Quotes are preferable compared to an author's interpretation and paraphrasing a quote.
An example of the author-of-your-link's lack of command of language: "... has described a repeatable situation that is clearly a flaw in his cruise control, and it only happens at super-legal speeds". Super-legal? :confuse: So he means that 83+ mph is very, very legal? maybe this Rhodes scholar meant to say "super-illegal"?
My experience is Toyota dealers will give you the run around on the simple things like CD players and tailgate issues. It is catching up to them. And rightly so.
Up front let me say I don't work for Toyota in any capacity. That being said my wife bought her first Camry in 93. She drove it for 13 years. We replaced tires and breaks and had it serviced regularly at the Toyota Dealer, but nothing else.
I traded my 02 Rendezvous for a 05 RX300. ( First time in 40 years we didn't have a GM vehicle in our garage. ) My wife finally traded her 93 Camry ( 150k+ miles ) for a 06 Corolla S, and after several years decided the Corolla was to small and bought the 09 Camry. Which now has almost 20K miles.
So in almost 17 years with the same Toyota Dealer, and almost six years with the same Lexus Dealer.( although the Lexus dealer is a little pricey ) I can honestly say I never had a problem with the service or care either dealer gave us. Unlike the GM dealers I dealt with over the years.
My absolute worst vehicle I ever owned was the 02 Buick Rendezvous. :sick:
Your comparing service of Lexus to Buick????? Given the high price of Lexus models, I would only expect the same level of service. The same is true for other luxury automakers.
The RX300 was a little over 40K. The Buick was a little under 40K ( actually 38K ), about three years earlier. But a huge difference in quality of vehicle and service provided by the Dealer. My point was compare to other vehicles I have owned over the years I would put Toyota products at the top of my list for vehicle satisfaction.
Your comparing service of Lexus to Buick????? Given the high price of Lexus models, I would only expect the same level of service. The same is true for other luxury automakers.
He was also comparing to Toyota, did you miss that?
Good to hear you have had a good experience with Toyota, but seems like the minority right now with all of Toyotas' troubles. Noticed JD Powers Associates rated Toyota at "About Average" while Buick was "Better than Most" in overall service satisfaction.
Comments
OPINION
How dare they tell us the truth?
by Colby Cosh
Maybe it's true: you can put a Republican in a Democratic cabinet, but you can't stop him from trashing science. On Friday the Highway Loss Data Institute issued a paper [stating] that their insurance-claims information offered no significant indication that cellular bans in California, New York, Connecticut, and the District of Columbia had done a lick of good. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood took to the web in a state of high dudgeon, complaining that the study "irresponsibly suggests that laws banning cell phone use while driving have zero effect on the number of crashes on our nation's roadways."
Leaving aside whether it can be "irresponsible" for a study to report disappointing or unexpected data--although, why, yes, now that you mention it, that's something the definition of scientific responsibility positively requires!...
...One way or another, there can be no excuse for LaHood to resort to the argument from anecdote in an attack on the world's most important highway-safety authority.
The Highway Loss Data Institute is an affiliate of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. When I first learned of LaHood's reaction through a press release by NHTSA, I was dumbfounded. Every other news report of the study was either positive or at least neutral regarding the outcome. The IIHS itself said the data were perplexing and further research would continue.
But LaHood has been leading a high-profile crusade against distracted driving, especially in regard to cell phone use. Therefore, some inconvenient facts apparently got in the way of his beliefs; hence the tirade.
Sometimes, a remedy isn't available right away (new parts have to be designed, manufactured, and shipped). In this case the recall letters still get mailed, but consumers are told when the replacement parts will be available at dealerships. In rare cases where changes can't be made immediately on the assembly line, then the manufacturer has to stop any further delivery to dealers. (Cars can still be made, but stockpiled.)
It is very rare for manufacturers to buy back vehicles as a remedy. But it does happen when the vehicle can't be fixed, as can be true for serious rust issues.
I have been tagged as a conspiracy theorist before, so I will agree. Government agencies do the bidding the bosses over them. I mentioned it before. The Congress and President were embarrassed by Toyota getting the most sales in C4Cs. I don't know what they expected. They did write the rules, goofy as they were.
WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Department of Transportation is looking into whether Toyota Motor Corp.'s problems with unintended acceleration can be traced to defects in the electronic controls rather than just the mechanical problems cited by the automaker, a Transportation official said today.
....When asked whether the federal review includes possible electronic problems with Toyota vehicles, a Transportation official who asked not to be identified responded in an e-mail, “Yes.”
.....But Safety Research & Strategies, a consulting firm, said in a posting on its Web site: “Neither floor mats nor sticking accelerator pedals explain many, many incidents” of unintended acceleration.
“By all appearances, electronics are playing a significant role in the problems," Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, said in an interview. The Transportation Department investigation “has needed to happen for some time,'' Kane said.
The investigation should cover 2002-06 Camry cars and 2005-07 Tacoma pickups, both of which have been the subject of numerous consumer complaints suggesting possible electronic defects, he said.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100202/OEM01/100209971/1147-
Stepping back from the situation a bit to take a larger view, it does seem improbable to me that so many SUA incidents (reports of which began quite a while back) have been caused by extra or loose floor mats and/or worn-out gas pedals.
I think Toyota needed a quick fix to get the green light from the feds to start sales again. They are estimating they lost 20,000 sales in January, and Camry got beaten by Accord and Altima in sales. That was with what, three days of lost sales? There will be more than that this month. They need to get back in business at any cost, I would think.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Maybe not though:
"Toyota purchase intent fell from 13.9 percent of Edmunds.com car shoppers to 9.7 percent during the height of the recall frenzy," said Edmunds.com Senior Analyst David Tompkins, PhD. "Toyota purchase intent is back to 11.8 percent and seems to be climbing steadily."
Toyota Already Recovering from Recall, Edmunds.com Data Shows (AutoObserver)
Any publicity is good publicity right?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Oh ok.
But it does sounds like they've hit bottom and demand is rising again. Meeting product demand could be a problem. I don't see Barney Frank shutting them down next week but who knows.
btw Gary, Audi is having some fun trying to figure out lag and jumping problems on the Q5. Seems to be software...
Audi Q5 defective transmission
It's called a Red Herring
n.
Something that draws attention away from the central issue.
That has been Toyota's cover-up approach all along...deny it, blame the supplier, blame the driver, nearly anything possible instead of Toyota standing up and taking responsibility for their own poor quality. Sure says alot about Toyota. :sick:
Other sources? Oh right, it's Bush's fault, I forgot.. Of course there's a lot of politics in all of this. They get free air time, free photo ops and lots of press to campaign for whatever office they're running for next.
Poor quality, if it's such a big problem year after year after year then why did we all buy Toyotas? Because it isn't a problem for the vast majority of cars, including the Avalon I've been driving since early '06. Sure, the tires could fall off and the transmission explode tomorrow (I walked to work again today), with 46,000 miles on it anything is possible including continued good operation.
John
“By all appearances, electronics are playing a significant role in the problems," Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, said in an interview. The Transportation Department investigation “has needed to happen for some time,'' Kane said.
The investigation should cover 2002-06 Camry cars and 2005-07 Tacoma pickups, both of which have been the subject of numerous consumer complaints suggesting possible electronic defects, he said.
What baffles me is why SRS is given such a free pass in the media. They have one engineer on the staff (not Kane), and their primary clients are trial attorneys. A little conflict-of-interest here? No one else, not NHTSA, Consumer Reports, or even the Center for Auto Safety are making such strident claims.
I see Kane wants to include my model year Camrys in his investigation wish list. Ok, I only own 2 cars, but in over 114K miles of combined operation, my wife and I have never experienced even the slightest hint of unwanted acceleration or "surging." These older cars do not have the suspect gas pedal design, plus the bottom of the pedal is about an inch higher off the floor than in the current-gen Camry.
When in doubt, go with your gut feeling.
Have they, really? Can you prove it? Just because someone complained that their 20xx Toyota vehicle suddenly lurched forward, doesn't mean that Toyota knew there was an issue with the drive by wire electronics. It comes down to the burden of proof.
Someone posts their "gut feeling that Toyota knew about this for years" and now you post that it's fact. The fire spreads from there.
There is a ton of speculation going on with this issue, and the liberal media has a way of reporting stories that will persuade you one way or another.
Toyota is no better than any of the other automakers, for listening to customer complaints. The 2004 Prius is a classic example. Well over 100 people experience stalling at high speed. Toyota drug their feet with it until the NHTSA said you have a problem. They finally found their bug and did a fix on them. Since the Prius has come out there have been complaints of surging with accidents and brakes failing causing accidents. Seems like a higher number than just operator error to me. Now Toyota has to address the problems in their newest Prius when they get high profile owners complaining.
Toyota won't be back in heaven before 2011.
This is sounding like a toyota salesman or corporate defense. Is there proof that nothing else is wrong? And is there proof that all those acceleration reports that don't fit floor mat impingment and pedals sticking after being partly depressed -- all those other reports -- are over nothing? Frankly, that just doesn't wash with what I read over the past months. And now other reports are coming out that thing the same thing as I.
>It comes down to the burden of proof.
AND we may get to see that burden shortly in the form of congressional hearings and by the NHSTA's result. I suspect the implication that a past worker in NHSTA having been employed by toyota and that reporting may have been twisted and shaped in such a manner as to keep under the radar of the NHSTA's internal alert may have put them on notice--along with several things already about toyota being nonresponsive and being quick to announce things "finished."
Stay around. There's more to see. That's my opinion.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You ain't seen nothin' yet would be my opinion. People that were snubbed by dealers over the last decade will be empowered to come out and be heard.
My experience is Toyota dealers will give you the run around on the simple things like CD players and tailgate issues. It is catching up to them. And rightly so.
Actually I'm neither as I won't ever own another Toyota, but not because of this issue we're discussing, more so because of local arrogant dealers. I learned a couple years ago that Toyota quality was way over blown. We've got 3 Toyotas in my family still and have had unexpected repairs on each of them, still better than the domestics IMO, but far from bullet proof. My current vehicle is a 2008 Chrysler Sebring.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/03/news/companies/dot_toyota_lahood/index.htm?hpt=T- 1
If you think the news is bad for Toyota now, wait till they crash and burn and shut the factories down for months and months, and lay a bunch of autoworkers off. More job losses will affect us all (not to mention that those Toyota ads you see on here to pay our bills may go away).
I have a feeling that LaHood is going to be taken to the woodshed shortly.
As you pile on, be careful what you wish for. :sick:
Seriously, way to go Toyota! And here I thought Toyota was superior to the other automakers, or at least they wanted us to believe that.
Maybe had they not tried to cover-up this issue over 5 years ago, we wouldn't be paying for all this now.
What difference does it make at this point, they have already mistreated their owners. Gosh, with all this news coming out in less than a month, I sure feel sorry for their employees; can you imagine some of the stuff they try feeding them to believe???? :sick: :sick:
I guess this will be the NEXT thing Toyota has to look into, eh? ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You've been around long enough to know the congressional hearings with be more about strum and drang than getting to the heart of the matter. As for one former NHTSA employee having that much clout is a stretch to believe, unless of course you WANT to believe it.
I guess this will be the NEXT thing Toyota has to look into, eh?
Oh No, like they did before, they will probably try and blame the driving saying they are braking to hard or something; maybe its the pedals? :sick:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Are you talking about Steve Wozniak's bogus conplaint? Read the whole story here, then get back with us.
An excerpt:
And there may well be genuine software or electronic glitches out there, but we’d like to see solid evidence of them. Instead, we’re stuck listening to Steve Wozniak’s experience with a faulty cruise control on his Prius. It’s being spun as an example of Toyota’s electronics gremlins, creating confusion and scare-mongering. As if there wasn’t enough of that already.
Questions: is the cruise control CPU+memory+software, a totally separate system from the one that the accelerator uses?
If they are separate systems do they transfer information? I believe you can accelerate with the gas-pedal while in cruise-control, which leads me to strongly believe the systems are 1, or communicating and working together.
Now go get a Happy Meal and get back to your regularly scheduled Disney programming. U.S. 21st century theme - Be obese and happy!
Oh please Gary. There are [non-permissible content removed] car dealerships of all ilks. Toyota does not have THAT market cornered, unfortunately. It would be nice if ONLY 'Yota dealers did that.
It's not a mysterious "glitch" occurring once in a blue moon that causes the car to accelerate out of control.
I'd like to see a dealer say they can't duplicate the problem because no road has a speed limit above 80 mph in the US.
Will Toyota recalls actually fix all acceleration issues?
So which is it? Does Toyota really know what the fix is for the unintended acceleration problems or not? Apparently the U.S. House of Representatives wants a straight answer. It seems the House is a little upset with official statements made by the beleaguered Japanese automaker because they seem to contradict what Toyota told the House earlier. They're also disturbed by comments they heard from Toyota's U.S. President and COO Jim Lentz while on the Today Show with Matt Lauer.
The latest hearing notice came from the House Energy and Commerce committee, which was already scheduled to hold a hearing on February 25 to "examine the persistent consumer complaints of sudden unintended acceleration in vehicles manufactured by Toyota Motor Corporation," according to committee chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif. They have given Toyota until Friday to answer a few questions about inconsistencies in some of Toyota's official statements.
The House says that Toyota gave assurances that they this issue under control, which don't match up with what Toyota had told them several days earlier. The House Energy and Commerce Committee's Chairman Henry Waxman, and investigation subcommittee chair, Rep. Bart Stupak, want some proof from Toyota to back up those claims by Friday.
I'm not going back thru that article. Either the author misinterpreted, assumed or misconstrued what Wozniak said in the speech in his speech on Tue. I saw the interview Wozniak's exclusive interview this morning with ABC's Good Morning America. Here's the link to some text: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/RunawayToyotas/toyota-recall-questions-motor-compa- - - - - - ny-knew/story?id=9733655
"I think it's more likely software in my case that causes it, and I can't cause it every time and every trip, but I am sure it will happen again," Wozniak said.
Be careful with your second-hand reports/sources. Quotes are preferable compared to an author's interpretation and paraphrasing a quote.
An example of the author-of-your-link's lack of command of language: "... has described a repeatable situation that is clearly a flaw in his cruise control, and it only happens at super-legal speeds". Super-legal? :confuse: So he means that 83+ mph is very, very legal? maybe this Rhodes scholar meant to say "super-illegal"?
There's more than a stuck pedal wrong
Bring new meaning to "Drive At Your Own Risk"! :sick:
Up front let me say I don't work for Toyota in any capacity. That being said my wife bought her first Camry in 93. She drove it for 13 years. We replaced tires and breaks and had it serviced regularly at the Toyota Dealer, but nothing else.
I traded my 02 Rendezvous for a 05 RX300. ( First time in 40 years we didn't have a GM vehicle in our garage. ) My wife finally traded her 93 Camry ( 150k+ miles ) for a 06 Corolla S, and after several years decided the Corolla was to small and bought the 09 Camry. Which now has almost 20K miles.
So in almost 17 years with the same Toyota Dealer, and almost six years with the same Lexus Dealer.( although the Lexus dealer is a little pricey ) I can honestly say I never had a problem with the service or care either dealer gave us. Unlike the GM dealers I dealt with over the years.
My absolute worst vehicle I ever owned was the 02 Buick Rendezvous. :sick:
The RX300 was a little over 40K. The Buick was a little under 40K ( actually 38K ), about three years earlier. But a huge difference in quality of vehicle and service provided by the Dealer. My point was compare to other vehicles I have owned over the years I would put Toyota products at the top of my list for vehicle satisfaction.
He was also comparing to Toyota, did you miss that?
This was linked over in Edmunds Answers this morning.
Would you believe that lawsuits over Audi's sudden acceleration problems are still going on in a Cook County Illinois courthouse?
Center for Auto Safety (Yep, Sean Kane's outfit).
The US, Canada and Japan blamed it on operator error (the US wasn't happy with the pedals being close together). The Swedes blamed the cruise control.
Take a deep breath and settle in. We're going to be here for a while.