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Comments
No, I actually do hold the workers responsible.
But the managers are even more responsible. Management negotiated the contract, agreed to the workrules, and perhaps most importantly, created the system of antagonism that motivates GM's employees to want the union.
I'd like to know -- why should any worker at GM have faith in management when management targets its best plant for closure? This sends a clear signal: doing a good job doesn't matter.
If you treat employees poorly, then you end up with poor employees on the payroll. It's management that did the hiring -- again, it goes right back to management.
Too bad it won't have any effect on the management at GM/Delphi. It will only make them feel more like they have the advantage.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
No it does not. It has gone through drastic inflation over the past decade and half. After the collapse of the Soviet economy, the Left brought Sweden to prominence as another alternative to capitalist open market, shortly before its economy collapsed in the early 90's. A stable and prosperous economy simply does not have nannies and secretaries as its primary labor exports to the neighboring countries.
Yes it does. :mad: Sweden is not running the defecits as a % of GDP as we are in the US. The Swedish mid-left government has very successfully been in place for 70 years now, with two periods' disruption, and the reliance on the eastern Europeans and Soviet economies was (and is) close to nil. I don't know where you get that they export nannies and secretaries :confuse: . That's just not true.
Upper management was always pushing quality, but on the floor it was all about volume at any cost. Bonuses come from volume, write ups come from lack of volume. The quality control guys are the least popular guys on the floor as they slow production and reject completed products. The motto in shipping was "ship what we have, if they reject it we'll ship another one".
In short, the floor managers made it clear the workers were worth exactly what it cost to replace them, and in turn, the workers could care less about the product and focused on squeezing every dime out of the company.
No boardroom quality decision is going to improve assembly quality unless it actually impacts attitude on the floor. And incurraging an attitude change doesn't do it.
That's right, this has been a problem at GM for a long time.
So ask yourself -- who created the incentive system that prioritized volume over quality? Management did.
An accountant's mentality is clearly at work here: the goals have been to maximize throughput (to increase plant utilization) and to create more units across which the company could amortize its fixed costs (to increase margins).
The talk from above about quality was just rhetoric -- they didn't actually mean it. They may have talked a big game, but they paid people to produce volume.
The floor managers behaved as they did because they were incentivized to behave that way. If output had been measured based upon zero defects, and the pay distributed accordingly, then you would have seen a different process at work. Unfortunately, they acted that way because management structured the job to make sure that volume, not quality, is what counts most.
=======================
Treated poorly....? ..l.o.l....
Try firing a UAW member that won't work overtime or on he's on his third DUI and caught with drugs, been late 22 times, needs a ride to work everyday, missed 40 days of work or he's on his 10th Workmans Comp claim in 3 years ..... management has absolutely no control over it .. they get with the union steward, they go to arbritation and it's over in 15 minutes or less - and back to work they go .... you won't find that at Nike, Sherwin-Williams, Microsoft or the Honda plant in Marysville or the BMW plant in Spartanburg ...
We all know that the domestic plants have problems, some of those decisions we pretty stupid, like Saab and killing Old's .. we also know that when you pay someone $75,000 a year for a $45,000 a year job, plus all the benefits, that you're also looking to trim the cost of the car and/or cost of the incoming parts and supplies - but there can't be both ...
Keep in mind, there is a lot of "plain old luck" in the auto business .. who would have thought the Element would fly .. better yet, who would have thought the Scion xB would be a winner, certainly not the 250 Toyota dealers that first refused the Scion franchise .. their loss, but everyone becomes a Monday morning quarterback come Monday ..... but then again, Toyota/Honda doesn't have $200 million in Workmans comp and insurance claims coming up and Toyota/Honda isn't looking down the barrel of 20% of their work force that has to be paid this Friday - whether they work or not .....
Let's put it on our level .... no mortgage payments, no light or gas, no insurance, no cell phone expense, no cable, just enough money to build a very nice house with 10 guys - thats the way Toyota/Honda looks at it ..... in the meantime, Ford/GM has to pay 85 people to build the same house .... aaah yes, the benefits of the UAW .... think about it.
Terry :surprise:
I still like the Montego however and will consider one when it gets the more powerful motor. Not many cars in that price range with such size and I actually like the looks of it. That being said many current Ford/GM owners tell me the same thing: it's hit and miss. Person A has had no problems with his Pontiac person B has a second home at the repair shop etc etc.
Why not? Management made the hiring decisions, established the QC requirements, and provided the design, engineering, sheet metal, parts, build processes, and assembly facility used to build that car.
If management isn't responsible, then what exactly are they managing? I'd say that UAW pride might be misplaced, but their managers ought to step up and take a bit of responsibility for permitting their logo to go onto that product.
Look at how Hyundai has been resolving its QC issues -- hiring more QC employees, fixing designs while in process, and fostering a bona fide zero-defects mentality that is initiated at the top and handed down to the bottom, matched with an incentive system that pays people for building quality, not just volume. That's what Ford and GM will need to do as well.
My point is whether a human actually sets and places the door and tightens the bolts to the chassis or whether it's done by a robot these days.
Anyone know?
Quality control should have caught it AND the dealer prep they love to charge for should have corrected it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think you will find that the 30/30/30/10 rule would apply to labor in general. Notice I said "labor". I am not differentiating between salaried and hourly. (Note: This is reflection of over 35 years in the industry on both sides of the labor classification)
10% are totally worthless and do nothing but complain and compound the problem within the sytem.They vegitate
and can only express effort if it endangers their entitlements.
30% just don't give a damn and just go with the flow. They will not put out one iota of extra effort unless paid for it..repeatedly. A "so what" attitude exists.
30% are just biding time so as to retire and leave this
godforsaken ZOO. They keep trying but are getting very tired of the effort.
30% (God love em) are really committed to producing the best product they can. This is in the face of depressing obstacle and changes.
The only thing that management can do really to change this reality lies in "control" i.e.purging of the salaried ranks.
Screw up countless times as a UAW member and the process of your removal is next to impossible. Do it any as salaried and you are terminated quickly and abruptly. If you (salaried) do not perform up to the capacity that management feels you should you are passed over for any raises/ advancement period.- The UAW still keeps its status quo.
Show initiative as salaried and you may be promoted quickly, sometimes too quickly- Show initiative as UAW and you will be offered a salaried position that you may consider until you realize that being a Union committeman is MUCH MORE profitable and substantially safer in the job market.
There was a time (not long ago) when GM had 173,000
salaried employees. That number has been reduced by 78%. And that number is even now being reduced. Management long since terminated that salaried 10% and a good portion of the first 30% mentioned here, No Jobs Banks here.It was streamlined because it COULD be done. The UAW will have to face organization collapse before it acknowledges that it will have to clean up its act.
I hate to say it but it could happen..... "BANKRUPTCY
your lucky that wasnt my new car you were rubbing your hands all over if i came out to the parking lot and saw a stranger touching my new car id lose it
If it was a Mercury, you would probably be afraid that it would fall apart.
I think that's a good analogy .... and the major thing is, every plant is different with a different attitude .. some are great, some are average and some are ho-hum - it's an attitude thing ... some work better as a whole and some get "contaminated" because of minor issues that keep flaring-up and it ends up being nothing more than black Friday - everyday ....
I was at a certain plant about 5 months ago and the issue on the floor was ..
1.) who the new UAW leader was going to be on the next vote (politics) ..
2.) how this new UAW leader was going to stop Ford from charging the extra $125 a month for their family health coverage (which is cheap money) ..
This conversation went from 5 people to 50 .. and as time went on during the day 50 people turned into 200, the other 400 stayed out of it .. the point is, nobody was working for the next 2 hours (at least none with their head on) ..... and 100+ plus of those people were at the golf outing the next day .. the same conversation went on for hours, with very little golf and a whole lot of alcohol .... at the UAW meeting the next day, the fire branding went on, but worse.
I understand their views, I understand their position and I feel their pain ... but it becomes insidious - and it effects the "majority" of the workers and not for the good .. you can't let the minority run the majority .. but as of today, that's what is going on .... sometimes it's better to cut and run and keep what you have instead of losing it all .....
Like my Great grand daddy used to say: .. "you can be a Lion and you can be a Tiger .. but never be a pig --- pigs get slaughtered.."
Terry.
I would say you are spot on for 2006. It was not always that way. When I started in the Telephone business in 1961 everyone had there job and someone was watching that knew what the job entailed. Now it is pretty much a free for all in communications industry. I think the blame is shared about equally between craft and management.
To show how tough it is to get rid of a Union employee. In the mid 1970s we had a guy working in the RCA long distance center in Anchorage. He carried a pistol to work with him. He was not reprimanded or stopped by management. The only way they got rid of him is he robbed a bank using the RCA van. They found out later he was running a house of ill repute and was wanted in San Francisco. They terminated him when he got convicted.
Me personally .... I could care less if he ran 20 of those things .. as long as he did 100% of his job everyday ...
(oh yeah, and didn't try to advertise at work ..l.o.l...)
Terry.
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&ne- wsId=20060313005930&newsLang=en
http://www.michiganreview.com/article.php?id=1746
http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2006/03/13/afx2591600.html
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?feed=FT&Date=20060- 313&ID=5573397
(oh yeah, and didn't try to advertise at work ..l.o.l...)
Maybe the company could have used his side-business as part of an incentive plan for all employees...
That would have given new meaning to the phrase "labor relations."
Where did you read this? JD Power says Saturn was 13th below the industry average for 2005 initial quality (3 month)even below the Scion brand and at industry average for 2005 dependiblity (3 year). All other GM brands are above Saturn for initial quality and Cadillac/Buick are well above Saturn for 3 year dependibility and about the same as the rest of GM's brands.
Where did Saturn go wrong? Stylng, younger more inexperienced engineering personel, Styling, lack of development money, lack of Marketing funds. Not sure about how the plant force effected it since I was never at the plant.
I'd agree that styling has been a serious problem, sales have declined in large part because the cars simply aren't that competitive. If a Saturn is going to have the finesse and style of a five-year old Toyota, then they need to lower prices to compete with five-year-old Toyotas, rather than new ones. Yet another example of GM management taking a good idea, and running it into the ground.
I guess we should open the flood gates and let everyone in and let them buy a piece of america. Whoever does it the cheapest' gets the job, and once you can't work no longer and all the greeter jobs at Walley World are full, you get the guillotine
BTW- It's all the UAW's fault. :confuse:
Rocky
The really ironic thing is, since the average wages/benefits for UAW members is more than somewhat better than the average American's with the same skills set, many American's see that "Me Me Me" attitude most prevalent amoung the UAW.
Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:40 PM ET
By Jui Chakravorty
DETROIT (Reuters) - Rating agency Standard & Poor's on Tuesday said it expected General Motors Corp. (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) to swing to profitability in 2006 but said a bankruptcy filing was a risk if financial performance at the world's largest automaker does not improve.
"We think there could be some improvement in (2006)," S&P credit analyst Bob Schulz said on a conference call to discuss a special report the financial information company issued on the outlook for the auto industry.
"But if there is not and things were to continue along relative to the financial performance of '05, then the company could ultimately reach the point where they choose to restructure," Schulz said.
GM lost $8.6 billion in 2005 as it struggled with high labor and commodities costs, loss of U.S. market share to foreign rivals, and sluggish sales of profitable sport utility vehicles.
The automaker is optimistic about its new line of redesigned SUVs, called the GMT-900 series, which are launching this year.
S&P called the new SUV models GM's "most important set of vehicles" and said their success was "critical" for the company. S&P equity analyst Efraim Levy said early sales numbers for the GMT-900 SUVs were encouraging.
Levy said one of GM's biggest remaining challenges was the uncertainty surrounding talks with its former subsidiary and parts supplier Delphi Corp. (DPHIQ.PK: Quote, Profile, Research)
GM is in discussions with the bankrupt supplier and the United Auto Workers union that call for cuts to Delphi's payroll and benefits in exchange for some compensation for unionized workers.
Delphi has said it will ask the court to void its labor contracts if an agreement to cut wages and benefits is not reached by the end of March.
That could prompt a strike at Delphi, which could in turn cripple GM and force it to burn through billions of dollars a week, analysts have said.
"If there is a strike at Delphi ... that would be the biggest negative that I can see for the year," Levy said, adding that he did not expect a strike.
GM is also in talks with potential partners to sell a majority stake in its finance arm, General Motors Acceptance Corp., in an effort to lower its borrowing costs and protect its credit rating.
S&P analysts said if GM did not sell GMAC, it would hurt the ratings of both the company and its subsidiary.
S&P analysts said they expect U.S. auto sales in 2006 to be slightly below 2005, but added that "a sharp decline" was not incorporated into ratings for the industry.
Levy said he expects 2006 sales of about 16.7 million units, down from nearly 17 million in 2005.
The S&P analysts said they expected GM, Ford Motor Co. (F.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and DaimlerChrysler AG's (DCXGn.DE: Quote, Profile, Research) Chrysler to continue to lose share to foreign rivals in 2006 as high gas prices hurt sales of SUVs and light trucks and high health-care costs squeeze profit margins.
Bob Schnorbus, chief economist for consulting firm JD Power and Associates, said he expected the erosion of market share to end over the next five years as the gap in quality between the domestic and foreign automakers narrows.
Maybe we should read it again in December to see if these predictions come anywhere close to reality.
You know, for us car buyers it is always hard to know whether we should fix the old clunker or buy a new car.
The GM Board of Directors has to decide whether to fix up the company the way it is or go bankrupt and pretty much start over. Tough choice.
Ford will drop spousal(domestic partner) coverage if the spouse has insurance coverage (medical) with his/her employer.
Here is the link:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060315/AUTO01/603150407
I imagine it will be only time that GM and D/C follow the example.
Note: >This is only for SALARIED EMPLOYEES !
UAW Coverage stays the same.
Equality of Sacrifice my "%$&"
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060307/NEWS11/60307004
http://today.reuters.com/business/newsArticle.aspx?type=basicIndustries&storyID=- nN15262555
Now the hourly are screwed. None will be able to find the same pay and beni's. Not close. Michigans economy is screwed for awhile. No more brand new snowmobiles and boats every couple years!
Maybe the work force is scaring potential manufacturers from setting up shop in Michigan. If the work force have a mindset that is not flexible who would hire them? I have friends that moved from San Diego to Detroit. They are making more there as engineers than they were in San Diego. She works for DC he is a network engineer. They bought a home in a very nice area for a fraction of what they sold their home for here. There is opportunity in MI.
I have no sympathy for the person that would sit in a rubber room and collect wages, instead of going for more education.
Michigan may be in dire straits. The Union workers need to look at themselves as part of the problem. Instead of always blaming management. I have a lot of Union experience. I know how Union members get complacent, after 10 years in the CWA and the last 35 years in the Teamsters Union.
I guess the rest of the workers here in the USA would like to see more "It's We We We" from the UAW, as in "we're all in this together." No one who is paying $300+ per month for their health care and getting 7 holidays if they're lucky (which is the average American worker) are going to have much sympathy for someone whining about paying $100/month for healthcare along with 20 or so holidays per year. Plus a jobs bank that pays you for not working.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Idle Hands, Detroit's Symbol of Dysfunction: Paying Employees Not to Work
It cost the automaker's $1.4 billion per year. You know the old saying "a billion here and a billion there, pretty soon you are talking some serious money".
The intent was to re-train laid off workers. Some take advantage of the opportunity. Many don't.
Sniff, sniff what kind of smoke am I am smelling?
Jobs bank
What it is: A program under which General Motors pays hourly workers even when a plant has closed or production stops. Ford, Chrysler and Delphi also have jobs banks.
How many GM workers are in it: Between 5,000 and 6,000.
Estimated cost to GM: $700 million to $800 million a year.
Formed: Under a 1984 UAW contract. The companies agreed to the program after the UAW said it would not fight new measures to increase plant efficiency and cut costs.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051123/BUSINESS01/511230370
If anyone remembers owning or seeing the first Japanese and Korean offerings and comparing them to their products now I think it's high time the powers that be have a short time frame to pull their heads out of their butts.
Geely thrill the US Auto Industry
Geely automobiles declared last week that Geely is going to take part in the NAIA in Detroit at January, next year. And, Geely planning to sell its products to US in 2008. This is the 1st time that Chinese automobile will appear in NAIA.
John harmer, Vice president of Geely automobile US branch£¬declared that Geely will exhibit its brand new model: CK in NAIA, this model is going to be sold to Puetor rico in fall of 2006, and will enter the US market in 2008. As he said, Geely had already sent 12 sample cars to US for safety & environment protection test in July 2006.
The whole US Auto industry is waiting for the new opponent from China to be appeared in Detroit. Meanwhile, the Japanese and Korean brand is threatening GM & Ford¡¯s market share in US, the workers in Detroit auto industry are striking for unemployment and the deduction of their salary. Under this situation, the Chinese Automobile with relative cheaper price compares to US motor are supposed to be the potential opponent of US auto industry.
How Geely act in Detroit dramatically shows Geely¡¯s strategy and LIshufu¡¯s wisdom, Geely choose to show only CK model in Detroit though it has the full rang of car models, and CK was withdraw from the booth quietly as soon as the press day was concluded, in order not to encounter directly with the critical US end users.
Geely¡¯s strategy upon entering the US market is consolidate step by step. 1st, make full preparation for introducing the new brand in the specific market before the product actually hit the market, follows, make amendments & upgrades upon the product to meet the specific requirements of the market, meanwhile, get its branch ready in this market and buildup its own sales group of dealership. It is the best way in all aspects for building up the brand image and having a good and healthy birth for the Chinese Auto industry in US market despite its high cost.
The one pace of Geely, may well be the great pace of the Chinese Auto industry, and the model CK, take non-significant compare with the other models of other Magnates, who knows, may write its own profound impact in the International Auto industry.
One thing I find funny is how the majority of the articles concerning the job banks don't discuss it was also set-up as a way for the Big 3 to tap ready, trained workers when people retired, quit, didn't want to transfer when a plant closed or other reasons.
There are some good aspects of the jobs bank, but it seems that you only read about workers coming in and playing checkers, reading the paper or watching TV.
Rocky
Seems to be what they excel at.
Of course, that applies to MORE than just the 'jobs bank' issue (ie: 'the state of the economy').
Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
Not from data I can find. Perhaps you can share where you find this data?
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/CSM/story?id=1655196
Which reads, in part, "Median incomes rose just 1.6 percent after inflation during the 2001-04 period...."
There was disappointment that it rose ONLY 1.6% after inflation, but the point is the median income ROSE.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11520738/
I love the headline on this one: "Average American family income declines". That must mean the average family is bringing home less money, right? Wrong. When you read the article what actually declined was the RATE at which family income was GROWING. You have to read the article to find that "The median, or point where half the families earned more and half less, did rise slightly in 2004 after adjusting for inflation to $43,200, up 1.6 percent from the 2001 level."
Again, income AFTER INFLATION was up. Of course, from the headline you would think the opposite.
I stand by my earlier assertion: the media's job is BAD NEWS, and that includes reporting on the economy.
I can't think of a better way to help both China/India AND the U.S.... :P