Winter Driving - are you prepared?

bottgers

I'm sick of wiper blades that don't wipe. I've tried a bunch of the different expensive blades and the regular ol' Ancos, but none of them wipe. I'm constantly haing to open my door when I stop to snap the wiper, and it will wipe clean for a few seconds, but then it goes right back to the streaky, non-wiping BS. Are there ANY wipers that work well during the winter months?

andys120

Have you tried Winter Blades, they have rubber over the netal arm to keep ice from sticking? Trico and Anco make 'em for most cars.

Spraying the wiper arms w a silicon spray will repel ice as well.

oregonboy

I have found that cleaning the blades really helps. Each time that I stop for gas I use the "bug scrubber" side of the windshild squeege to scrub to road crud off the wiper rubber. It really extends the useful life of the blades. :shades:

bottgers

I installed a pair of the Anco winter blades yesterday. I'll see how they do.

Mr_Shiftright

I just replace all three blades once a year. There's nothing like a brand new blade for the season's first rain storm! I have to travel a really treacherous road, often at night, to get home, and every little bit helps in terms of lighting and wipers.

I do clean the blades though, with alcohol, about once a month. I live near the ocean and will get a light salt film sometimes..

andys120

I've found that if the windshield is icing up badly, hitting the defroster will help so that the wipers can do their job. Once the windshield becomes warm enough to melt ice that hits it you can switch the climate control to the regular setting and simply redirect some of the warm air upwards. Your manual will tell you how.

wwest

First, the "cause" for the state laws not allowing downhill coasting in neutral have long since passed. In days even before my time vehicular braking systems were sort of the "hang on and pray" type. So the gearbox was always then an important part of the braking system, often a VERY important part. And also not having synchros in the gearbox made it damn near impossible to put it back into gear once a level of speed had been attained wherein you now required braking.

And keep in mind that FWD and F/AWD vehicles were not as commonplace in the days those laws went on the books.

So..

You are driving a F/AWD vehicle. Front engine torque biased (70/30 F/R) AWD vehicle. One of the foremost hazards, if not the MOST hazardous, in driving a FWD or F/AWD vehicle is inadvertent engine compression braking on the front, driven, wheels. You may notice that NO modern day FWD or F/AWD vehicle will automatically downshift during lift throttle coastdown, at any lower, lowering, speed absent the driver applying the brakes as a "signal" of the driver's awareness (hopefully...!!) of tractive roadbed conditions.

So, coasting downhill on a slippery ice or snow covered roadbed in a FWD or F/AWD, slip the tranny into neutral, just as advised by none other than the AAA, and be SAFER.

Or open the diff'l/PTO, remove the center diff'l's front drive spider gear, weld the rear spider gear in place so you have a much more safe RWD vehicle. If you have a VC then let the VC drive the front conditionally.

Now you have a R/AWD RX350.

Much safer....

stever

Thanks, but I'd rather put my FWD minivan in D (3rd - it's got an OD off switch) or 2 and ease down the 16 mile Bogus Basin road in gear rather than in neutral and burn up my brake pads while I lose ~3,400 feet in elevation, and negotiate 172 curves.

You've harped on how dangerous FWD rigs are going downhill in the snow for years now. I'd be curious to see some links to accidents caused by such activity (or even links that you think could be attributed to your theory). I'd like to see a link to the AAA's statement too (I don't have access to their print publications).

You can skip the links going to your posts around the net. :shades:

I'll go nose around the NHTSA until I hear back from you.

(someone drove off the road going up this morning and plunged 150', fwiw. Can't tell if the rig is FWD or RWD or some flavor of 4WD - KTVB).

wwest

I haven't skiied Bogus for many years now but I do remember the road quite well. My best guess would be that at that time I would have been driving a 1978 Ford E150 work/cargo van with a straight 6 and stick shift, RWD only. We added seats and a side rack for skiis.

Your local Porsche club has an event every year involving that "road" but I have yet to have been in the area to particpate. You might keep an eye out for a '79 Forrest Green 911 Targa with gold BBS 3 piece wheels and NYSSA license plates. North of you, McCall, there is now a '78 Seafoam Green (light metallic green) 911 Targa also with gold BBS 3 piece wheels.

You're invited to breakfast or dinner at the Cracker Barrel if all three of us manage to make the event this year.

Personally I would NEVER drive that downhill run in the wintertime in a FWD automatic, one with a clutch, maybe, but each to his own. IMMHO leaving a 4WD/4X4 in "locked" mode would probably be just as bad, HAZARDOUS, as FWD.

In my opinion that is only ONE flavor of 4WD and yet another for a 4X4 (4WD w/low range) but a myriad of "flavors" of AWD.

tidester

Things must be pretty quiet at the West residence for you to dig back five months to fabricate a controversy.

The original question had to do with saving fuel and that was dispatched appropriately.

First, the "cause" for the state laws not allowing downhill coasting in neutral have long since passed.

Sorry, but you don't get to decide which laws are obsolete and can be neglected. Your pet theories won't hold water in a court of law and, in my humble opinion, it is irresponsible to advise others to ignore those laws. There are legislative procedures for repealing "obsolete" laws but until that is done they remain in force.

In the meantime, if engine braking is excessive for your descent, then switch to a higher gear. You won't waste gas and you'll be in compliance with the law.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

stever

Personal opinions are one thing. Blanket statements about safety without any independent verification don't hold a lot of water. I appreciate voices in the wilderness and you have my respect for propping your vehicles up on 2x4s and testing stuff, but surely you can find me just one or two links that support your theory?

I'd love to meet you at the Cracker Barrel (even if their ice box pie is kept frozen harder than a rock ). I'd even ride shotgun with you on the road - one of these years I'm going to remember to go watch the Bacchanalia. Or we can go skiing/riding up there (you can even drive my Outback).

wwest

"..in 2nd gear rather than in neutral and burn up my brake pads...."

Well, first of all, brake pads are rather cheap to purchase and damnish easy to install vs transaxle clutch surfacing and install. But the more important point for me is your seeming willingness to put yourself, your passengers, and others on the road at risk only to conserve brake pads (and/or to make a point).

There is, of course, the issue of overheating the brake components and thereby losing almost all, or all, braking capability but that can be prevented by pulling over once in awhile to allow them to cool. Our '71 Ford Station Wagon (oft referred to as the "Queen Mary", HEAVY, she was) was quite subject to that problem but mostly only on the downhill run from Mission Ridge outside Wenatchee.

But think about ABS, what does it do, why is it so gold-darn important...??

ABS has the ability to release braking on the front wheels (where 70-80% of brake HP is applied/expended) so you can still maintain directional control while braking as heavily (almost..) as conditions allow.

How would you alleviate your van's 2nd gear engine compression braking to regain or maintain directional control on your FWD minivan should the need inadvertently arise...??

Quickly shift into neutral..??

That's why the AAA recommends practicing being able, and prepared, to quickly shift into neutral should the need inadvertently arise. (Hint: Knowing the "road", IT WILL...!!)

wwest

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:zz1l1OUp3ysJ:www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/- Winter-Driving-Tips/IljH1zT6fEeKeAmTXrTlBw.cspx+AAA+winter+driving+fwd+neutral&h- l=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&lr=lang_en

About half way down the page.

"...If your front wheels skid..."

stever

I looked and couldn't find anything from the AAA and putting a car into neutral, other than trying to get unstuck. Seems like you had something one other time from them though. [edit, thanks for the link - note that they talk about putting the car in neutral after you skid, not while going down the snowy hill].

As you may recall, Bogus Basin road is a narrow two lane road. There are lots of pull-outs but they are intended for letting people pass you, not for parking while your brakes cool down. I'll try to remember to snap a photo of the no parking signage next trip up.

In all my 20 winters in Anchorage driving almost exclusively a FWD sedan and FWD minivans, I never experienced the back end passing me coming down the hill from Arctic Valley or just cruising around the area. And I'm not that skilled a driver.

wwest

Let's define "skid"...??!!

Does it simply mean yaw is out of whack, out of line, or could it mean that the vehicle is still moving in the desired direction, say straight ahead, but the wheels are "locked" (skidding..??) due to low roadbed traction and engine compression braking (you choose, front, rear, or all four).

Dangerous, potentially, either way, right...??

Back in my days in MT I would often get down a slippery downhill slope, steep slope, (RWD/Auto) by lightly applying the e-brake. There were two positive effects from that, slight braking and sort of an anchor at the rear helping to hold the car in line, the behind remaining behind the front.

Now think about why that may not work with FWD or F/AWD.

You might ask why I didn't simply downshift, as you do.

"control"

wwest

I would, will ALWAYS, ignore the "No Parking" signs (or any "law") in favor of a life saving effort. If I got a ticket you better believe the judge would get an earfull.

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure..."

Yes, the "shift into neutral is "after the fact", but the message is still quite clear.

Luckily my days in Anchorage, Fairbanks, and Barrow were pre-FWD.

wwest

"...Sorry, but you don't get to decide which laws are obsolete and can be neglected..."

Well, actually I do, as do you.

First, mostly, the law enforcement personnel typically do not attempt to enforce laws that are obsolete and are therefore unenforceable before a judge, at least a sensible judge. I have only been to court one time over one of these and the judge nearly laughed the prosecuting attorney out of the courtroom.

But then the officer "read me out" in the hallway for having the gual to question her "authority". But I'd bet she never wrote another ticket for that reason.

Can you really imagine any judge "validating" a parking ticket when a life saving decision was made adverse to the "law"...??

NOT...!!

Personally I can't even imagine an officer writing such a ticket.

"..then switch to a higher gear.." "..be in compliance with the law"

No.

Mr_Shiftright

I've raced cars on oval tracks and you know, severe compression braking will screw you up whether you are RWD or FWD. The only thing that's different is which way you hit the guard rails.

I'm guilty of coasting down long straight hills just for the fun of it (how far can I go?) but never on an icy or snowy roads. I have an AWD car right now, but drove Saabs for many years, and a Scion xA, both FWD-ers. Touching the brakes in neutral will put you into a skid just as easily as engine compression but with ABS now the dangers are much less IMO, as the brakes do not lock (nor do the wheels lock in engine compression unless you are doing something quite radical, like downshifting to 1st gear at 40 mph).

The trick of course on all slippery surfaces is "no sudden moves".

andys120

Touching the brakes in neutral will put you into a skid just as easily as engine compression but with ABS now the dangers are much less IMO, as the brakes do not lock (nor do the wheels lock in engine compression unless you are doing something quite radical, like downshifting to 1st gear at 40 mph

That says it all, Shifty, on a long slippery hill it is much safer to rely on engine braking while descending than coasting in neutral. Unlike Mr. West my experience on slippery roads is not limited to the occassional ski trip as I have lived in Northern New England for 35 years and driven AWD, FWD as well as RWD cars.

Mr_Shiftright

I certainly understand the effects of compression braking on a FWD car, but you know this would have to be a pretty radical maneuver, like downshifting from 5 to 2 racing downhill. Just lifting off the gas on a FWD car shouldn't make any difference.

Of course, if you are on a snowy road, going fast around a turn, and you lift off abruptly to avoid an animal, say....well, that could get dicey with either FWD or RWD.

I'd guess that on a RWD you'd get power-off understeer, and on a FWD, power-off oversteer.

andys120

but you know this would have to be a pretty radical maneuver, like downshifting from 5 to 2 racing downhill

Well that's just it, it's easier to avoid radical inputs to the drivetrain by being in the correct gear as opposed to coasting. A car in neutral will pick up speed
going downhill, forcing input from the brakes to keep at a safe speed whereas it's possible by downshifting to "crawl" down at a steady speed slow enough to avoid having to brake which is the last thing you want to do. To get down the steep hill leading to my home I downshift to second or third (A/T or manual) to slow the car. I've done it everyday in all weather for 11 years without the least problem.

If a person, vehicle animal or a tree limb were to force me to brake I'd be going slowly enough to smack it into a snowbank without any problems. I doubt that'd be the case if I were "freewheeling" down in neutral.

I think our friend is confused because you're supposed to put a manual shift
in neutral when braking on ice. That's something I've never done because I try to avoid braking on ice altogether.

Mr_Shiftright

Well your FOOT might be braking on ice but your car won't be.

It's a nice gesture, but futile, as we have all seen from those YouTube videos...the pitiless, gradual slide downward to destruction...the frantic, useless flickering of brake lights, the spinning of the steering wheel to and fro, and the car just ignoring all that input and obeying the laws of gravity, thank you very much.

oldharry

I have owned and driven FWD RWD 4WD, and engine braking is safe with all if your skills are up to the task. With FWD (or any other) on ice, I never slam into a lower gear going down hill. Touch the gas to synchronize during the shift if a down shift is necessary, then back off the pedal slowly. Keep your foot on the pedal, and increase wheel speed if slippage starts. With FWD, the rear wheels roll free when engine braking, and are LESS likely to skid than with a RWD.

If you lack the experience, practice on a large, level parking lot from moderate speeds. It does not take many tries to learn what to expect.

Braking in neutral, can get you into much trouble. The ABS may release the bakes, but there may not be enough friction to start the wheels turning to regain steering. Engine power with ABS restores steering.

Telling an inexperienced driver to shift into neutral may get him killed, and is totally irresponsible.

Harry

wwest

"...Engine power with ABS restores stearing..."

So, you're saying that if the surface is so very slippery that the tire will not rotate during the period of ABS brake release then a little power application from the engine will help get it, keep it rotating...??

I would imagine should a person ever encounter a road surface THAT slippery then the primary option would be to bury the brake pedal into the floor and then hang on and pray.

"I never slam into a lower gear going down hill.."

Slam....??!!

With an automatic transaxle just how do you "ease" into a lower gear...??

Methinks you might be thinking back to the good old clutch pedal days when "easing" into a lower gear was entirely possible.

Apply even the slightest level of gas pedal pressure along with moving the shifter to select a lower gear and with most modern day automatics, especially those "coupled" with DBW, you will get a sudden burst of "acceleration", in this case MORE wheelspin.

DBW programming is typically such that it will hold off on engine RPM elevation until the downshift is completed. And unless I miss my guess the programming will be such that with this set of inputs an "expectation" of quick acceleration will be the norm.

wwest

"Telling an inexperienced driver to shift into neutral may get him killed, and is totally irresponsible.."

Really...??

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:zz1l1OUp3ysJ:www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/- Winter-Driving-Tips/IljH1zT6fEeKeAmTXrTlBw.cspx+AAA+winter+driving+fwd+neutral&h- l=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&lr=lang_en

Follow the link and read the publication. Then use the very same search terms to see just how many government agencies plus the military are recommending just that procedure.

Targeting specifically toward INEXPERIENCED drivers.

wwest

"Your manual will tell you how..."

NOT...!!

At least not for Toyota or Lexus and likely any passenger car equipped with an automatic climate control designed by NipponDenso or Denso US.

These have a serious design flaw, not only serious but potentially DANGEROUS. These are designed to rely SOLELY on the operational functionality of the A/C for dehumidifying the incoming airstream in order to prevent and/or remove interior windshield condensation.

Not on point, you say...

Well, yes, but....

The problem in this instance results from the fact that once the passenger cabin has been heated to within a few degrees of setpoint the airflow routed to the interior surface of the windshield will be as much as 20F BELOW the setpoint, but by Denso's desire, VERY DRY.

Big deal.

If you drive into and area wherein the outside of the windshield needs warming then you MUST not only switch to defrost/defog/demist mode but raise the target temperature setpoint. I would suggest raising the setpoint DRAMATICALLY, maybe even to MAX, until the icing trend has definitely been reversed.

Good luck.

Mr_Shiftright

Just because AAA says it doesn't mean it's particularly useful advice. If you read the entire step by step procedure they are advocating, they apparently want you to:

1. take foot off gas as front wheels skid
2. put car in neutral
3. do not immediately steer to correct--let the car stay out of control until traction returns
4. THEN Steer in the direction you want to go
5. Then put the car in drive.

YEAH RIGHT---as if the person wouldn't be in a panic by then.

I mean, some of this stuff is right out of 1948. "Hang a brightly colored cloth from your antenna?"

SAY WHAT?!!!

wwest

Apparently you have never had to stear into a skid as the car slides toward the edge of the road on Rodgers Pass. MT200.

Panic, yes, but knowing what to do beforehand often abates or at least lowers the panic level and thereby allows one to act rationally or at least moreso. When the stall warning goes off just as you depart the runway you can either panic, "freeze", and die or push the nose down just far enough to prevent a SUDDEN UNCONTROLLED return to the runway.

Education, knowing what to do, TRUMPS panic responses each and every time.

wwest

Are you disagreeing that the procedure would work or is it just that you believe most would panic, freeze, and never get to step 2...??

People are a lot less likely to panic if they recognize the situation as one for which that have some preparedness, plan.

Mr_Shiftright

Thanks for asking!

I'm saying that the procedure is both unrealistic for the average driver and no more effective than not putting it in neutral.

Having lived in New York and the mountains of Colorado and worked in the wilds of Alaska for a year, I've tried every damn procedure in the books for snow driving.

I do not claim to be the expert snow driver, but I have driven 40 years in the nastiest weather and never had a mishap, and most of it with RWD machinery or, in Alaska, 4WD trucks.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I don't think most American drivers should be told to put a car into neutral except to START IT and to TOW IT :P

They simply do not have the skill level for this sort of thing.

stever

With an automatic transaxle just how do you "ease" into a lower gear...??

For my ski hill, I just stick the tranny in the appropriate gear before starting out. Usually 3rd. If conditions warrant, I'll notice in the first quarter mile and be able to gently slow down so I can downshift the automatic to 2nd without kissing the snowbank.

Mr_Shiftright

I just find it rather unbelievable that some 65 year old guy (someone likely to be reading advice from AAA) starts skidding towards a tree or an embankment or another car....he does NOT instinctively turn the wheel, but just takes his foot off the gas and calmly shifts into neutral as the car heads for its target.....then, as he nears the target, he notices that his car seems to have more traction, and then he turns into the skid while simultaneously putting the car back into drive (not 1, not 2, not reverse, but Drive--presumably not looking at anything but the target).

Well good luck and god bless but I don't have the presence of mind to do that.

oldharry

Well, I admit I have never downshifted a TOYOTA drive by wire on ice, but I have with a Cadillac, and the engined 'blipped' up a few rpm on throttle tap, then settled right back down. Engine braking FWD slows the front without locking the rear. GM had to recall some FWD's because the rear brakes were too aggressive, and rear wheel lock cause the car to swap ends on slippery roads.

A body shop guy told me, however, that he has a customer that rearended other cars twice with a new Nissan DBW because the driver in front started away from a stop light, then slowed, and the Nissan kept accelerating after he lifted his right foot.

Perhaps Mr. West is recommending not to buy a Japanese label FWD?

Harry

wwest

Before Cadillac decided to discontinue the FWD models entirely, along with the highly esteemed V8, most of them had already been revised to prevent engine compression braking on the front wheels. If I remember correctly they said they had adopted an "over-running" clutch within the transaxle so that the wheels could NOT "drive" the engine.

wwest

First, the only "FWD" you will find me out in adverse conditions with is an '01 F/AWD RX300. All year around there is ONE set of tire chains on board stowed in the center "well" of the spare tire. Come wintertime the second set goes onboard.

About two weeks ago both sets were installed and not removed until a few days ago.

But. Most of my early wintertime driving experience was in NH, Goose Bay, Alaska, and MT, not one FWD in all that time and experience and I don't remember driving anything but RWD.

So, yes, many's the time I had to "hang on and pray". The rear end coming around to my "right", stear right, into the skid (against EVERY survival instinct, and often toward the road drop-off, if not an immoveable object) wait, wait, wait, until traction "catches", now gently, even so gently begin stearing back into the direction you wish to go....

Sweat pouring off your brow.

Maybe I was just one of the lucky ones, before the AF would allow me to drive on the flight line I had to practice, again and again, losing control of our SAC equipment "bread trucks" on glare ice, and then recovering to do it yet again. Until my instructor decided I wasn't a danger to our B47's or KC-97's.

andys120

With an automatic transaxle just how do you "ease" into a lower gear...??

It's very difficult with the old-fashioned column-mounted PRNDL type shifters but it's a snap with modern "manumatic" setups that have either paddle shifters or console mounted levers. I do it every day with the Steptronic in my 5-Series.

wwest

The question was not intended to ask how you "input" your desire for the transaxle to downshift, but how might the firmware complete the downshift softly, with "ease". Is there any automatic transaxle/transmission firmware that doesn't use a quick/FAST BANG-BANG procedure for DOWNSHIFTING, release one clutch set and engage the next...??

And a 5-series implies a RWD or R/AWD vehicle which is not really a part of the subject matter here. And remember that these days the "shifter", regardless of type of implementation, floor console, column, or "paddle", is simply a set of electrical switches which are switched on or off, INSTANTLY insofar as the controlling ECU is concerned.

stever

Well, I had a FWD Voyager in Anchorage for ten winters and I never had any problems downshifting with the PRNDL column shifter. My '99 Quest only spent one winter in Anchorage and I don't take it skiing too much here in Boise, but I haven't any issues cranking it down a gear on the column either. Maybe it's just what you get used to.

I'd like to see some accident reports or studies saying that FWD vehicles are inherently unsafe on snowy winter roads.

Now that I think of it, if you did an accident survey, you'd probably find that AWD/4WD vehicles are inherently unsafe on winter roads - it's always 4WD SUVs you see in the ditch or playing turtle. :P

btw, I drove the Quest to Goose Bay NFLD/Labrador, but don't remember a Goose Bay in Alaska.

wwest

"..it's always 4WD SUVs..."

Yes, too few "true" 4WD/4X4 SUV driver/owners know to take the system out of LOCKED mode once underway. Like FWD, that makes them more likely to get up and going initially, but just downright HAZARDOUS(***) in those conditions if you leave the center diff'l locked.

And then there is the SUV group that think the AWD system allows them to go out and play in the snow with impunity.

NOT...!!

*** Most modern day 4WD/4X4 vehicles will entirely disable ABS/VSC/TC with the center diff'l locked since those features cannot be functional.

bigfur

Talk about winter driving at its worst. Thursday and friday both saw over ten rollovers alone in the morning rush hour because of black ice. The temp was about negative 30 with a wind chill of about negative 50. I wonder what is worse, the feeling of the car as its rolling over or standing outside the car waiting for the state patrol to show up???

Mr_Shiftright

30 below is pretty punishing if you're standing outside. I remember Alaska at 50 below and it was painful to breath. It was very dangerous at those temps to be out for very long and no, you don't want to grab your door handle with your bare hands.

bigfur

I dont get it, these are the same idiots that drive across a frozen lake with no problems. Yet when it comes to just a little bit of black ice on a curve in a road they end up on their roof.

andys120

Driving across a flat surface with few obstacles is a whole different thing from driving on an icy road with traffic, curves, dips rises and blind spots.

Black ice sneaks up on you, surprise can create panic.

Mr_Shiftright

There you go.....PANIC....brain freezes, pedal mashed to floor, wheel locked or arms flailing....and probably too late to do anything even if you came to your senses.

bigfur

Gotta love black ice. Nothing better then it being so cold your exhaust freezes.

kdshapiro

In the mid-nineties there was a series of devasting ice storms on the east coast. I was driving a manual and after yet another ice storm went to work the next day. I came off a clear road speed limit 55, onto an exit ramp, doing about 30, which clar for the first 10 feet then was black ice the rest of the length. As I rounded the curve scared out of my head, a car had previously spun out in front of me and was perpendicular to the road...no chance of me stopping. The driver saw me coming and not suprisingly had a look of panic.

In a split second I mashed the clutch keeping the car in neutral, prayed, steered slightly to left to avoid the cars front, hoped I wouldn't hit the guardrail on the left. Managed to get around the car without hitting anything, then the exit ramp turned into a downgrade straight to the stop sign at the bottom.

I kept the car in neutral, the plan was to mash the brakes when I was even with the stop sign and hope I didn't hit an innocent car who happened to be in the intersection at the wrong time. The almighty must have been looking after me, as when I hit the brakes at the stop sign there were no cars in the intersection and I stopped in the middle of the road.

It could have ended much, much worse. Lesson to be learned is one can't panic.

tj6968

I use Tripledge wiper blades. They've worked well for me... they are silicone so it will last longer than rubber. I bought them from www.buytripledge.com but I think you can find them other places.

ray80

Also, although I don't know its weather related, its a good time to check lights. I found I have a headlamp, and have seen 3 others on each of the last 2 nights with headlamps out..

nehlstay

I had a 97 sentra as my first car in high school. I suggest you drove it into a wall and use the insurance money as a down payment. Those cars are garbage, I hated it, terrible in snow, no power. Luckily for me, my girlfriend wrecked it for me and I got a used Cherokee. Night and day difference, more power actually works in snow which made the sentra seem like a go-kart with a/c.

There is something to be said about a V8 and 4WD. Its worth the difference in fuel consumption if you ever have to deal with snow. Also if you ever get in an accident, chances are, you win. Keep in mind that an SUV with a poor crash test rating will still demolish a smaller car with even the best crash test rating, a little know fact.

mary_smith

Do they actually get rid of the nasty dirt and snow from the tires of other cars or do you still have to squirt the washer fluid to remove it? I would love to find a blade that kept me from constantly using the washer fluid. I'm always afraid I'm going to run out.