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The Growing Divergence Between Horsepower and Speed Limits
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Then have the state record odometer numbers... and charge XX amount per mile for upkeep.
I don't know you seem not to have read everything on this forum. I gave plenty of examples where a cars mileage goes down as engine output goes up. So again there is a direct relationship between HP and fuel consumption.
Not sure why you keep telling me this,
Because every time its brought up you seem to argue that position.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
like look at you would the world really be all that different if you were not in it, no you dont play an intricate part in my life minus just time wasted at work for me to chat on the computer, but when they take this privilage away from me next week i will never here from you again. so I dont need you, i dont need the car i drive, i dont need the house i live in technically i really dont need the suit im wearing... So you really think about it.. we dont really need anything.
Your question still does not diminish the fact it is purely a strawman question.
Well, I don't see you "shooting your Caddie in the head" so to speak!? One would tend to think you're like that NYC real estate magnate (I forget her name) who once is reputed to have stated that (taxation policy) is" ONLY for the little people."
I have already said in a prior post that I see no incongruity to (YOU) owning a 400 hp caddie, nor a 90 hp car either.
Just filled up the VW TDI, 90 hp "fuel guzzler". Did a heavy round of rush hour type traffic and a few 80 mph trips on the freeway's slow lane for a combo of 48 mpg.
And there are examples to the contrary, proving that the relationship is not consistent. (If it was consistent, you see, there wouldn't be exceptions.)
All of that aside, still no reason provided why you'd focus on output, rather than the fuel consumption itself, if that is your primary concern.
Because every time its brought up you seem to argue that position.
Provide a post number where I have done this. You apparently have an uncanny ability to read things that haven't even been written!
Well, I think if Snakeweasel define the output as the actual used HP, yes, using more Hp will require more Gas all other things being equal.
but if you compare two engines in a same car, that the more powerful get lower mileage if driven head to head, while likely, is not necessary true.
I have some paper tests in mind that showed the BMW 530D had a better mileage than the lower powered 525D, whereas the EUROMIX ratings were similar. In some diesel cars, it is possible the more powerful Engines do not use more fuel than lesser ones.
Volkswagen TDI engines often behave in a similar way.
Technological breakthrough may also help contradict the more power = more gas rule : I heard the 2007 Camry Hybrid , while 35 HP more powerful than the standard 2.4, will offer much better mileage.
And also has been shown less consumption does not mean less emissions or green house gases.
I have and if you believe that stop taking any fluids, we will all attend your funeral next week.
i dont need the car i drive,
Then how would you get to work and earn money to buy food and put a roof over your head?
So you really think about it.. we dont really need anything.
Only the dead don't need anything.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Yeah keep saying that maybe someone will believe that.
Now will you actually answer the question and not throw false accusations around trying to avoid an issue?
There rest of your post is contradictory to other posts you have made.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
there hasn't been one true example that shows the contrary. Show me one example where a engine with more output in a car will provide greater fuel economy. Just one, you can't because it doesn't exist.
the only way you can show anything to the contrary is to compare a much lighter but higher HP car to a much heavier but lower HP car. But thats not a fair comparison is it?
Its a simple fact, increase output increase fuel consumption.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Most do, however a small minority like you, do not!!
You might want to make the case that one is a hypocrite for driving a Caddie when an Elantra will do, or can not make a case for the need for "high" hp.
However, as I have posted (now numerous times), there is no incongruity for you having a 400 hp Caddie and a 140 hp Hundai Elantra. I say enjoy em and to each their own.
So what?
When your Caddie needs filling you fill it. When your Elantra needs filling you fill it.
lets us capability for this as its easier to track.
I have some paper tests in mind that showed the BMW 530D had a better mileage than the lower powered 525D.
How about some facts such as HP rating for each as well as the weight of each and mileage. Plus on paper is different than real world.
Technological breakthrough may also help contradict the more power = more gas rule : I heard the 2007 Camry Hybrid , while 35 HP more powerful than the standard 2.4, will offer much better mileage.
Here is the problem everyone one has with this argument, they always want to compare apples to space shuttles to prove their point. Try comparing apples to apples.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not so at all. It is only you that wishes to frame the argument in this fashion.
Besides if you distrust the statement is is more than easy enough for you to look up YOURSELF. Pretty soon you will deny for example that you can NOT compare mpg such as a gasser VW Jetta at 24/31 to a VW Jetta TDI at 42/49.
Since you insist on overlooking the obvious, let me state it: one is a gasser the other is a diesel. Guess which has the mpg advantage?
You might want to make the case that one is a hypocrite for driving a Caddie when an Elantra will do, or can not make a case for the need for "high" hp.
Now that is a strawman argument, restating someone elses argument as something they never said so you can knock it down.
Never did I once say that people should have low HP cars, never, not once. Now while I do question the rational that people use to justify having one on this forum that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't have one.
If you want one fine get one, just don't tell me you need a lot of HP just in case it snows.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You also need air, and try spending a northern winter naked with no shelter.
Only the dead don't need anything.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
In other words in an experiment to see the effect of changing one variable you change only that variable not all variables. If you change all variables your results are garbage.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
i was able to get all kinds of free food, not stealing not beging, but it was out there.. and i did forget about air, yes supprised they havent tried selling that yet, oh wait they have there called oxygen bars...
and the whole naked in the winter, hello move to a warmer climate... use leaves to cover yourself in cold times..
so keep thinking, maybe its just because you have lived a nice comfy life with no problems why you think you need things of material..
I asked so what? Now tell me, does your Caddie consume more or less than the Elantra? So according to YOUR logic, what possible logical rational could you have to own the more consumptive?
And for the fourth or 5th time, I see no incongruity with you owning a 400 hp Caddie and a 140 hp Elantra. Obviously you still own the Caddie, so in practice, neither do you.
Arguing with a rock has greater utility. At least you can use it for building material.
so who cares if he owns a 400hp car and a 140 hp car... it doesnt matter he likes what he likes..
Here it is:
(Note: Pferdestarken is almost identical to horsepower... or you can divide that number by 1.0139 to get standard horsepower numbers)
European 2006 Volkswagen Golf S 1.4
Pferdestärken* 75
Engine cubic capacity 1390
Fuel Consumption
Urban 29.4mpg - 9.6l/100km
Extra-urban 50.4mpg - 5.6l/100km
Combined 40.4mpg - 7.0l/100km
Engine emissions 168g/km
Engine noise levels 74.0dB
Engine maximum Speed** 102mph - 164km/h
Engine acceleration 0-62mph 14.7secs
Maximum output PS 75
at RPM 5000
Maximum torque 93 lbs.ft / 126 Nm
at RPM 3800
---
European Volkswagen Golf S 1.6 FSI
Pferdestärken* 115
Engine cubic capacity 1598
Fuel Consumption
Urban 31.7mpg - 8.9l/100km
Extra-urban 50.4mpg - 5.6l/100km
Combined 41.5mpg - 6.8l/100km
Engine emissions 168g/km
Engine noise levels 72.0dB
Engine maximum Speed** 119mph - 192km/h
Engine acceleration 0-62mph 10.8secs
Maximum output PS 115
at RPM 6000
Maximum torque 114 lbs.ft / 155 Nm
at RPM 4000
---
European Volkswagen Golf GT TDI
Pferdestärken* 140
Engine cubic capacity 2000
Fuel Consumption
Urban 39.8mpg - 7.4l/100km
Extra-urban 58.9mpg - 4.8l/100km
Combined 49.6mpg - 5.7l/100km
Engine emissions 154g/km
Engine noise levels 72.0dB
Engine maximum Speed** 126mph - 203km/h
Engine acceleration 0-62mph 9.3secs
Maximum output PS 140
at RPM 4000
Maximum torque 236 lbs.ft / 320 Nm
at RPM 1750
I'll drink to that! But I won't drive directly after!
Look around you, millions on welfare get food and shelter for free.
Now there's irony. Thanks for giving me my laugh for the day!
Pardon me. I will try again. Yearly license plate tax based on HP or pounds/HP, etc., actually is less arbitrary and more equitable then current legal method for assessing real estate taxes on houses.
In my state, one pays extra real estate taxes for “amount” of things in your house such as toilets, sinks, bathtubs, fireplaces, bedrooms, etc. One also pays taxes based on amount of square footage of house. I know all of this for fact. I had to research thoroughly to challenge my first real estate tax bill on new house. I reviewed the worksheet and data that tax assessor used to assess my house. I found that assessment and bill were too high because assessor made mistake and had too many square feet shown for my house. Assessor fixed the error, apologized and I got a refund from the county.
Now, do you think that it is fair and legal for tax assessor to assess real estate taxes on the AMOUNT of square footage of a house? If you don’t, then there is no need to read further. Square footage is in reality the capacity of a house.
The concept of taxing on the AMOUNT of something is similar to the AMOUNT or capacity of HP in a car. If a real estate tax assessor has a legal right to assess the amount of square footage of a house on “private property”, then a secretary of state DMV should have a legal right (after state legislature passes law) to collect yearly license plate car user fee based on the capacity (HP) of car used on “public property” or public roads. It has been done before.
This fee could be assessed based on weight of vehicle such as “pounds/HP”. This fee could be argued to be fairer than taxes on house square footage. After all, the car is using public roads and interfacing with other vehicles while the house is minding its own business on private property.
The user of a car with high HP and high performance is more likely to drive recklessly and hurt someone on a public road or damage public property. The higher yearly license plate fee is justified.
From insurance.com: “In general, sports cars and other high-performance, flashy vehicles are classified as higher risks because they are common targets for thieves and vandals, and because statistically, the people who own them tend to drive more recklessly.”
From Russ Rader, spokesman for the IIHS: "In general, vehicles with a lot of horsepower encourage fast driving, and speeding is a leading factor in fatal crashes" .
That's not the point of this thread. The name is "the growing divergence between speed limits and hp" not "who cares about higher hp".
I'm all for higher hp/weight, let those who want it pay more for it than lower hp/weight cars.
Nor do we need a license to own them. The same should be for cars.
If you want to operate your 600 HP car on your "private" roads on your 1,000 acre ranch, then yes, you don't need a license or insurance. If you want to operate your car on public roads, then you must pay a license fee for that car. You don't exclusively own public roads by definition. We all do. We collectively, through our government, say that you have to pay a license fee.
Did you ever hear of the word, "analogy"?
:shades:
Again your setting up a strawman argument. I never said it was illogical to own a car that consumes more gas. All I said was that more HP means more fuel consumption. If that isn't an issue for you thats ok. But it seems that some people here are saying thats not true.
Just because I say high HP cars consume more fuel doesn't mean I am saying stay away from high HP cars. I am just pointing out the obvious.
Oh yes seeing how this has gone you did concede the fact that more HP means more fuel burned.
And for the fourth or 5th time, I see no incongruity with you owning a 400 hp Caddie and a 140 hp Elantra.
And I never said there was any disharmony in it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Higher displacement and horsepower/torque do not always equal higher fuel consumption.
I have compared three Volkswagen Golfs (same year/model) with varying engine sizes (and horsepower).
And found that the higher the horsepower, the higher the fuel efficiency.
True. The hp disarmament committee advocates want to add layer upon layer upon layer of regulations to the already layer upon layer upon layer of regulations.
If fixtures add value to the property, then taxes are adjusted accordingly. But the tax is ad valorem -- put the same house in a neighborhood with higher or lower values, and the house will correspondingly gain or lose value accordingly. So no, bad analogy.
The user of a car with high HP and high performance is more likely to drive recklessly and hurt someone on a public road or damage public property.
You need to learn the difference between correlation and causation. We can statistically expect that the buyer of a V-8 Mustang may be more, er, enthusiastic than would someone who would settle for (or indeed, even love) a Kia Sephia. But that does not mean that the Kia driver becames diabolical when given the Mustang, or that the Mustang driver is pacified with the Kia.
In any case, the correlation in insurance premiums doesn't seem to run with "high horsepower" cars, but with "sports" and "sporty" cars, irrspective of horsepower. A Cadillac will almost certainly have more ponies than a Lotus, but guess which one is deemed to be a "sports car"?
Huh? that goes against physics.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
One can also see this principle in action on the IIHS data base. Specifically, as an example; Camaros and Mustangs have higher EVERYTHING.
me: It pays the person at the window's salary, and also the 5 peoples' salary who are on coffee break.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
:confuse: