By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Unless, of course, you plan to keep your car for a while. My car has been in the family for 10.5 years and 162,000 miles worth. 4 MPG for that many miles at $2.80 per gallon is over $2,900. (Using my 27 MPG vs. 23 MPG over 162,000 miles)
I new question for you all around the same thread as this one. A civic ex at nav, mazda 3 i touring sunroof, side airbags, 6 cd disk changer, kia spectra (that's right I said it) sx with sunroof for $4,000 less than the civic.
It may seem weird but I thought I'd throw it out there. Kia also has a 10 year/100,000 mile warranty. I don't know if that means that if it breaks down I don't have to pay anything or not though.
Thanks again.
slaterac. :shades:
slaterac.
How do you mean?
Good thing. Test drive everything you can. It will give you an idea about what you like about certain cars, what you really can't stand, and will help form your opinion and clarify your needs from a car. I would probably never buy a Ford, but I drove a Fusion to see what I liked about it, and conversely, what I didn't like.
Needless to say, I got an Accord.
reliability, I think honda wins.
mpg, honda wins.
cargo space, honda wins.
room, leg room front and rear, about even more front leg room in honda more rear leg room in mazda.
price, honda with everything included is about 21. Mazda with much of the same things is about 18,500. (Although I'm not sure on the exact prices).
Drivability, either they are both great cars.
That's what I've got from those two cars. Feel free to add to that or substract from it. I think this would be a good idea to help those looking between the mazda and honda, like me.
slaterac.
I assume you read the Edmunds direct comparison test?
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=108601/pageNumber=1
slaterac.
Well, that's not the only reason. It's just that it soundly trounced it in driving performance, so that stood out. Do you like the funky dashboard layout of the Civic?
I pulled these numbers from MSN:
Honda Civic Si coupe - I4 2.0L (197 hp) 6M + ABS
0-60: 7.38 1/4 Mile Time: 15.68 1/4 Mile Speed: 93.20
Honda Civic LX coupe - I4 1.8L (140 hp) 5M + ABS
0-60: 8.04 1/4 Mile Time: 16.31 1/4 Mile Speed: 87.90
Honda Civic EX sedan - I4 1.8L (140 hp) 5A + ABS
0-60: 9.52 1/4 Mile Time: 17.35 1/4 Mile Speed:82.00
Mazda 3S (Grand Touring 5A + ABS
0-60: 8.6 1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 16.4 @ 84.7
I have found other stats on the Internet that show the Mazda3i Touring with a manual clocking slightly higher numbers than the Civic LX with a manual transmission.
That said, the Edmunds article stated that the Mazda 3 clearly handles better on the track, but to be fair that is what the Civic SI is for (performance). Personally, for a commuter car, I think the Civic LX (manual) and EX (manual) are very comparable to the Mazda 3i and 3s with regards to performance. In my brief test drive of the Civic LX, I found it to feel as fast as the Mazda 3i, but also felt the Mazda's manual transmission to be more responsive and I felt it handled slightly better. However, I am on the fence with these cars with regards to fuel economy and resale. As noted during the Edmunds comparison the Civic averages about 7mpg better which adds up over 4 or more years. Imagine if gas hits $4-6 dollars a gallon over the next few years (which is what most analysts are predicting based on political issue in the Middle East and Venezuela). I also found the Civic to be a little more comfortable.
Also, nobody can deny Honda's strong resale value..
That said, my heart says go with the Mazda and my mind says the Civic may be the better fiscal choice...
...nor the Mazda3's...
thanks again.
slaterac.
slaterac.
That said, the Civic will probably get you close to 5-7MPG better depending on your driving habits.. There are threads dedicated to real-world MPG figures for both vehicles.
...nor the Mazda3's..
You are correct there
Unlike my previous Mazdas, the Mazda 3 does seem to hold its value well...
- The M3i really handled well, and I felt the M3i with the manual was much quicker than the Honda LX automatic (I called several local Honda dealers and none had a manual LX/EX sedan. It would be several weeks before they would have one in to compare, and most likely these would be sold already so a test drive would be tough).
- Interior. The M3i Touring model I purchased (got a great deal on it) was loaded with a power sunroof, 6 disc changer, side airbags, steering wheel audio controls, rear lip spoiler, all weather floor mats, etc. The Honda EX was about $1400 more and the LX was only $400 less (assuming the dealer could get me a manual) but just does not compare feature wise. The more I sat in the Honda Civic, the less I liked it. I just felt distracted with the dashboard layout and preferred the Mazda' s.
- Exterior. While I do not dislike the Honda's exterior styling, I do not like it as much as the 3's.. The LX's wheel covers looked cheap next to the 3's alloy rims. I do appreciate the fact that Honda tried to do something different with the styling, its just is a little to over the top for me.
- Gas MPG. This was tough for me. I wanted a 3s, but felt the 3i was just as quick off the line, and liked the potential gas savings. Obviously Honda has the advantage here, but the 3i is a huge step forward from the 16mpg SUV I traded in.. I can live with 29-30mpg average that I hope to get in the 3i..
- Selection/negotiation. This was one of the biggest factors for me. None of the Honda dealers in my area (Northern VA/Maryland) had manual sedans available and I really preferred one. Not too mention the LX with the automatic would have cost more than the loaded 3i.. None of the Honda dealers budged too much off MSRP and many would not return my calls. This seemed to make my choice of the 3i very easy..
I think both of these cars are excellent sedans and are probably the top 2 choices out there. They both have strengths and weaknesses, but in the end the Mazda seemed like the overall better value (considering all the features you get)..
BTW you should know that the 3i with stick are known to get 40+mpg on HWY driving ... my 3s with stick got me 35mpg and would again if I could stop driving 85+ on hwy's
Congrats on the purchase... I have been happy about my Mazda since I bought it in december.. but I completely understand your uncertainty.. the Civic is very different, but it is a challenging competitor to the Mazda...
Igor
I believe Mazda fixed the AC for 06.. but regardless.... if you go and buy cabin air filter and install it (have it installed) you will significantly improve your AC performance (I did it and I have no complaint on AC performance on my 04 MAzda3)...
There are other "rigged" ways people discovered, but they are more involved and not all have been proven.. but www.mazda3forums.com (which is where I go for info) has them all posted.... go and look around,
if the weak AC is your only serious complaint, it should be fixable.
Igor
most 3i 's sell at invoice... so ask for that.
Igor
There are other "rigged" ways people discovered, but they are more involved and not all have been proven.. but www.mazda3forums.com (which is where I go for info) has them all posted.... go and look around,
if the weak AC is your only serious complaint, it should be fixable.
There has been enough discussion on the cabin filter by the professionals and those who have had it installed and the fact is it does nothing to improve the A/C performance. If one thinks it does, it's a psychosymatic effect and not real.
The issue with the A/C is serious in non auto climate control is not yet fixable. There is a hack available by one of the guys who has knowledge in A/C at a previously mentioned Mazda forum for those that are somewhat adventurous. See Mazda A/C problems.
Currently at the auctions here in the North East, I cannot buy a used Mazda3 at a decent price to sell on my lot. They are going for thousands over book value.
I would say resale value is about even right now.
So, they bought them used for 15 or 16K?
The Mazda3i 5-speed base model STARTS at $15,150. Invoice on a Mazda3 s base is $16,365. $16K there is a slight chance to get that, but, $15K, do dealer is that stupid or desperate, especially with how hot the Mazda3 is.
I personally talked to several of them at various G2G... sure they might have been lucky to get an s for that cheap.. but my point is .... an i or itouring should not be bought for anything over invoice.. (lucky ones bought some under invoice) - but straight invoice price is standard.. heck, when I was buying I was given invoice right away over the phone, when just inquiring whether the car I wanted was still on the lot.
(but I was buying in late december which helped a lot)
EDIT.. I re-read your post and want to add one more thing.. if 3s starts at 16and change, getting it for slightly uder 16 is not anything impossible - for any car... I did not say they go it for straight 15k... just remember talking to people who got them under 16k.. mostly by "letting themselves be convinced not to get the well loaded i-t/i-gt from another dealer, and instead get the base s"
Igor
Whether I am just lucky or my cabin filter helped (it definitely helped with junk being blown into my car) or not, my AC runs fine...
Igor
Also, to address other posts. Getting invoice is almost a no-brainer. Every dealer I went to practically EXPECTED to sell it at or close to invoice. Honda was down to invoice as well. Between 3 different Mazda dealerships I was down to $600 below invoice. The only real negotiation was for what they would give me in trade. Honda wouldn't budge on my trade but Mazda went from $8500 to $9300 to $9500. I owed $10,000 so I was ecstatic to get that close on a Hyundai w/ 65k miles!! I ended up at $18,204 for a 3s w/ sunroof, side air bags and 6 CD changer. Invoice was $18,800. Only had to pay tax on the balance of the trade plus $600 for Sirius radio. Out the door for under $20k and that's a helluva deal on one of the hottest cars on the market, fully equipped (everything except leather).
Shop around. The dealers have some room to move below invoice and they also need to meet sales #'s so deals can be found if you look for them.
So, they bought them used for 15 or 16K?
The Mazda3i 5-speed base model STARTS at $15,150. Invoice on a Mazda3 s base is $16,365. $16K there is a slight chance to get that, but, $15K, do dealer is that stupid or desperate, especially with how hot the Mazda3 is. "
I got my 2006 3S touring (MT) for $16755. That was invoice less $500 (dealer did that in lieu of me waiting to get my zoom zoom coupon). Still amazed at that price...
Excellent point
edit: I'm basically asking them to swallow the ttl fees.
slaterac
thanks,
slaterac.
However I drove them all with manual tranny, so this is not that relevant.
However in there civic there was a lot more road and wind noise when I drove it.. my mazda is much quieter than that.
However I believe you do get an extra gear on the ATX in the civic over the iTouring...
- I never advise on styling as it is subjective...
- Go drive them and see which interior fits you better - seats, controlls, wheel position etc... and decide based on that.. the i and EX are a very close match.
BTW about your price question.. are you telling me the Dealer wants over 18k for i Touring and is giving you $2000 for your trade in, or if he asking the 16.something thousand and on top of that giving you $2000 for your car?
I was not sure.
Igor
Thank for the response. I have test driven both vehicles but I was able to take the mazda out for the weekend and love the car. But I can get a honda for 300 more and it may hold it's value better, get better gas mileage, etc. I really like the mazda though and understand why edmunds said that it beat the civic in performance because it's a very nice car and a lot better in performance even though I have only test driven the civic.
As for the pricing question I was saying that they want 18k for the i touring with sunroof/6 cd changer, door guards, side airbags. I have been quoted at 17,950 somewhere else but they said with tax, title, tag it would be 18,700 and I want to get it around 16,300 including everything and my trade in.
slaterac.
100% wrong
Sure an SUV has more powerful AC - but it is also has a much larger area to cool - plus many SUV's carry 9 people -
Do you really think that the engineers that design the AC system say - OK this is an SUV lets give it an AC that will cool the car off to 65 degrees - but when they are working on a small car they say - lets shoot for 80 degrees - thats good enough.
There are many people who have the Mazda3 (and other small cars too)that claim that their AC is very cold - and does a great job of cooling the car no matter how hot it is outside(I believe them). How would you explain that? I guess you can't explain something that is not true.
These types of statements have been put out there by car dealerships when people have AC problems just to give them an excuse - its the same as the tired old - its the R-134 that is the problem.
Do you really think that the engineers that design the AC system say - OK this is an SUV lets give it an AC that will cool the car off to 65 degrees - but when they are working on a small car they say - lets shoot for 80 degrees - thats good enough. "
So you are saying that a 4 cylinder engine has the same cooling capacity as an 8?
If you want to get all technical you could claim a large V8 could HANDLE a larger capacity AC than a small 4 banger - that would be true. But that is not what I am trying to say.
The amount of power needed to run the compressor is not that much - look at a window AC unit you could use in your house - an 8,000 BTU size - takes 820 watts or about 1.1 HP to run. Sure a GOOD auto AC will kick out more cold air (and take more power) than a small window unit. The AC in my house is a 4 ton unit - it takes less than 6 HP - does anyone think that the AC in a car would need a larger TOTAL capacity (not relative capacity) than a house?
I guess this is the point where someone needs to say something smart like - I would rather have the extra 2 HP and give up some AC performance.
This board is to discuss Honda Civic vs the Mazda 3. Seems like every single Mazda 3 thread gets dominated by two or three folks that want to keep discussin their A/C issues. Honesly, some of these folks (not you zbill) are starting to sound like trolls...
Thanks..
I just wanted to know what you all think of the mazda and the civic and which one you would get and why?
slaterac.
Those who want to continue the a/c conversation regarding the Mazda3 need to meet up at this link: Mazda3: AC issues. See you there!
slaterac.
I think the thing that really pushed me to go with the Mazda (aside from the car itself) was the fact that I had just purchased a Honda Odyssey EX-L from a local Honda dealer at the end of April and the same dealer refused to go any more than $200 under MSRP (plus they tacked on a $289 processing fee). I was not looking to pay invoice but, they could have at least come up with a better offer than that for a returning customer. To me, that was just greed.
In addition, after driving the cars back-to-back, I preferred the dashboard layout of the 3 to the Civic as well as the handling/performance.
The Honda has an advantage at the gas pump, and I actually really like the exterior design. Both good cars, but the limited availability of the Civic and the room to negfotiate on price was frustrating.
My guess is that you will be able to pickup a Civic under invoice after the 07 Mazda 3, restyled Toyota Corolla, and restyled Hyundai Elantra are out. A lot of good competition
You are right about the civic. One of the reasons I went with the Mazda 3 was because it was less expensive, and I just liked it better than the civic. I liked the civic's new look interior but the mazda was just a better car to me with more power and great handling.
slaterac.
The Honda is a significantly more comfortable ride because it has smaller wheels/tires and the suspension isn't as stiff at the Mazda. The tradeoff is in road-feel and handling, although the Civic is still a good handling vehicle in normal driving. It also kicks the Mazda's butt in fuel economy.
My first car when I was 16 was a Honda and I've owned nine other Honda/Acura vehicles in the 17 years since then. All were great cars (except my '96 Accord from hell, another story).
When I was in the market for a new car back in 12/05, I drove the Civic multiple times as well as various Mazda3 models. My personal dislikes about the Civic were the styling (interior and exterior are just not my taste) and the available color combinations were unappealing to me. I despise tan/beige interior, so I would have been limited to exterior colors that have gray interior. I didn't care for any of them. Honda needs to expand their color choices a little- had I bought a Civic, I would've wanted a white one with gray interior but they don't offer that.
For the first time in my life, I bought something other than a Honda. I haven't regretted my choice. But I think I can safely say a Honda Civic is not a choice anyone would ever regret, either. It just didn't appeal to me.
Sidebar- the comments above exclude the Si model of the Civic. The Si sedan will be out in a few months and will actually kick my Mazda3's tail in terms of speed. Until the MAZDASPEED3 gets here!!!
I am almost positive that I would be just as happy with the Civic as I am with my Mazda3. All I know is that the 3, is a great little car and I am very happy with my purchase. The fact that the Mazda dealer has given me great service over the years also factored in my decision.