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Comments
The si would dance around the 3 in ANY guise? So, the Si will outperform the Speed3?
News to me...... :confuse:
It is a fairly common mistake to compare skidpad numbers from different tests to try and determine which is the better 'handler'. Does Edmunds test ALL their cars on the same skidpad? Is the surface of that skidpad ALWAYS in the same condition?
It's usually better to compare numbers from within a single comparison test. This way, all the cars were tested on the same track under the same conditions. Now, where can we find test results for the Si and the Speed3 under the same conditions? Hmmmmm......why sunofagun, Edmunds HAS tested these two cars under identical conditions.
Slalom: Si at 67mph, Speed3 at 68.2mph
Skidpad: Si at 0.86, Speed3 at 0.88
Braking (60-0): Si at 125', Speed3 at 116'
And the Si was tested on the optional 'summer' tires. So, Mr. Astaire, if you still think the Si handles better than the Speed3, you need to do some SERIOUS dancing..... :P
"I know i may be pushing it with this, but there are many who would attest that the si is quite the handler."
Actually, that's about the only thing that you don't have to 'push'. Taken by itself, the Si IS quite the handler. Heck, I've owned a couple of Si's myself (CRX Si and Civic Si) and I know ALL about low torque/high rpm hp fun coupled with a nice flingable chassis. And yes, compared to the 'normal' Mazda3 I'm sure the Si does handle better.
But the 'normal' Mazda3 is the one doing the dancing around the 'normal' Civic (LX/EX). Just as the upmarket performance Mazda3 (Speed3) is the one doing the dancing around the upmarket performance Civic (Si).
All of this is based on U.S. spec cars, of course.....
BTW - I'm fairly certain the individual you were responding to was only looking at the base model Mazda3 vs. either the Civic LX/EX. So your throwing in the Civic Si was really a bit much.....
(insert (really long and/or sarcastic nitpicky response here.) :P
So, you are going to dock the Mazda for providing better gripping wheels? That's not fair. Your complaint should be that the Civic only comes with 16's. BTW, the 17's on the Mazda3 are not performance tires. Just mearley 4 season radials.
It is possible to test a Civic EX vs a Mazda3 s with 16's. The base Mazda3 s comes with 16's.I wonder if there are such tests out there.
Sounds to me like another good reason to get the Mazda3....
Regarding the seats, I think that is mostly subjective. I ended up buying a 3s Sport MT, and my girlfriend thinks the seats in that look cheap!
This seems odd. Are you certain the deposit was non-refundable? Try calling the manager to have him explain the policy. If that does not work, try another Mazda dealer. I imagine that the dealerships have to be careful in avoiding joy riders trying out the hot new toy but charging admission seems far-fetched.
Moving from an S2000 to an Si may seem like a step down for some. Perhaps, the largest advantage is that the Si may be tamer and therefore easier as an everyday car. If you're looking for an everyday car, I would pick the regular Mazda3 over the Mazdaspeed3.
Since the Mazdaspeed3 is related to the Mazdaspeed6 in terms of engine and transmission, you may want to check that forum also. My impression is that Mazda has learned from the Mazdaspeed6 example and has a very successful product on its hands.
p.s. I would not classify the Speed3 as a sedan but rather a hatchback.
Taken by itself, that is generally a true statement. However, the presence or absence of a Limited Slip Differential won't show up in a skidpad number since these are typically STEADY STATE numbers.
In other words, a higher skidpad number for the Speed3 compared to a regular Mazda3 has zip to do with the LSD.
Just for kicks....I read the Edmunds comparo between the Si and Mazdaspeed3 (with others in the comparo). Here is what Edmunds had to say...
Civic Si .86g's compared to .88g for the Mazdaspeed3
"Mazda's 2007 Mazdaspeed3, the new guy on the block, is unquestionably fast (155-mph top speed), quick (14.2-second quarter mile) and grippy(0.88g on the skid path). The Mazda had the quickest segment times at the Streets of Willow, not to mention the quickest overall lap time of 1:33.65. (1:36.20 for the Si)It also stopped short at 116 feet from 60mph. Doesn't matter how you spin it, the Mazdaspeed3's performance is unmatched in virtually every category."
As they are for the Mazdaspeed3. Aftermarket TMIC's, (FMIC's in the works), CAI's, turbo upgrades, stand alone engine management, BOV's, suspension upgrades, boost controllers, turbo back exhaust...all made by other companies BESIDES Mazda.
Its funny how much mazda had to shove under the hood to get the aftermarket to notice
That statement makes no sense. Its a brand new car. The Civic Si has been around for eons. Yes, new engine for the Si, but, same engine family (K20) that has been in use (Acura) for years now. Easy to modify performance parts already made for that engine family.
The si is great because it is a wonderful platform to start on, and even if we are still talking bone stock
Never said it was not. But, the Mazda is as well.
if mazda wants the prize for most power in a car in this class for this price award they can have it, there is more to it that that for me.
I take it since power is not your only concern, how about handling? Advantage, Mazdaspeed. Braking? Advantage, Mazdaspeed. Useable space? Advantage, Mazdaspeed. 0-60, quarter mile? Advantage, Mazdaspeed. As Edmunds.com said "it is unmatched in virtually every category"...
I really am wondering what companies these are too, seeing as how i've read various mazda tunig magazines and pretty much all there seems to be parts for are the rx-7 and miata. And a few for the mazdaspeed protege. Unless ofcourse you count the 'heavily modified' regular 3's that are limited to cute little asthetic upgrades.(watch out for that lip!
Then what is?
The reference to the aftermarket is just how you stated; yes there are parts now, but it took a blown up turbo-charged ms3 to do it. The performance version of the civic isn't the only one that gets modded.
Not true. There are just as much aftermarket mods for the Mazda3 as there is for the Civic. Quite frankly, no one really mods a Civic anymore. I have not really seen a modded Civic since the 96-00 MY Civic. The 00-05 maybe had the occasional "weed wacker" muffler on it. I have not seen a single 06-up Civic with anything done to it, other then at a SEMA show, or Sport Compact Car mag.
really am wondering what companies these are too, seeing as how i've read various mazda tunig magazines and pretty much all there seems to be parts for are the rx-7 and miata
Well, the Miata is one of the most popular raced vehicles in the world. You may also want to pick up some other mags that show the Mazda6 (and Speed6), Mazda3 (and Speed3), Mazdaspeed Protege, MX-5, RX-8 mods. Really, all you see from Honda is the Civic or S2000. I have not seen a modded Accord since the 94-97 MY.
Unless ofcourse you count the 'heavily modified' regular 3's that are limited to cute little asthetic upgrades.(watch out for that lip! WHoa here comes a muffler!)
That's too funny! Right there you described they typical Honda Civic stereotype!
I'm sorry, but, if you really want to talk true performance, or a true sports car you are wasting your time with anything from Honda except the S2000. Unless you drive formula cars...
As far as 'true performance' goes, i have a close friend who has a civic that puts 350 hp to the wheels and because of the weight of it can pretty much kill anything it comes across. (including the beloved mazda speed 3.
Now if I can only find out what's causing the cracking sound at the base of the windshield I'll be really happy! :confuse:
You can say that Mazda is owned by Ford, but that is not entirely true. You need to know that about 33 percent of Mazda is shared through Ford....and it has been a nice fit.
Take a look at other manufacturers who basically have the 'imports' built here in the U.S. now. Mazda has these vehicles built 100 percent overseas: The 3, 5, CX-7, RX-8, MX-5 Miata, speed6, and speed3. The MPV is not made anymore, and was built here in US. The Mazda Truck shares with Ford also...however, there are tell-tell differences such as the suspension and steering...the Tribute will come back out in 08' with a new design..and it will still be built in US. The warranty is different from Ford and Mazda has a loaner car program along with roadside assistance. Many other cannot claim this.
But please, Mazda is not owned by Ford....and anyway, Ford is still a good company in my opinion.
If anyone wanted the sports car ride and handling, go with the 3. (besides, why wouldn't anyone looking for a sporty ride not go with a 3, a vehicle that one by a car and a half on the slolums when tested against the BMW 3 series) when it came out?
I happen to be the salesperson that you got upset with when I had to tell you, under management authority, that it was a vehicle that was limited production and one that speed enthusiasts, like yourself, don't like to purchase with excess miles on it. Wouldn't you agree? If we let everyone drive them, they would be driven harsh, fast and furiously!
Do you know how many others would love to joy ride, with no intention of purchasing the vehicle? Many have asked.
I have sold 4 of the 5 speed3's that we have received and have loved every minute of it. So have the customers!! The individuals that have purchased the vehicle have nothing but praise for this vehicle.(one came from Kansas and knew the stats...he knew what the 3 could do and bought right on the spot) Many have compared the Honda to our 3....however, there is little comparison between the two vehicles. Read Car and Driver, there are good articles in the January mag.
I wanted to apologize in a public form for the treatment you felt that day. (since I did not get any information from you when you left me that day) I hope you get what you want in your next vehicle. Our Speed3s are still as popular now as when you were here. I love offering them to you and everyone else....and I apologize that they are not a dime a dozen. They are special and I want to keep them well kept, with miles under 15, for someone who is ready to purchase. I am also here for anyone who has questions or more information on the vehicle. We are here for you in your quest for more information. We have an urge to serve policy.
Give us a chance....we are a good company...
Are you enjoying the MPV? I drove one for a little while. Handles well.
Yeah, that sounded sincere...
You say you are sorry that they felt that way, and sorry that the car is limited. I guess the actual customer isn't always right, and doesn't deserve an apology...?
Are you SURE you aren't a Mercedes dealer?
Honda has a very good reputation of providing post warranty "goodwill" policy on repairs.
Aside from the fun factor that some people feel the MZ3 has, the Civic IMO, is a better choice in the reliablity department and it looks decent. If you want an even more reliable car, go with Toyota Corolla, but I think it's really ugly.
Surely that's not what you are saying...
Your need to keep the mileage down on vehicles you intend to sell makes sense. The way to make that happen is to dedicate one vehicle as a demo. That demo will sell later at not too much of a discount if this vehicle is as popular as you say.
IMHO, making people pay for test drives is not the way to win customers and influence potential buyers. It's not that hard to work around the fact that you have a popular vehicle which may attract joyriders. Charging "admission" for a test drive seems to me to be totally counter-productive given how many legitimate potential buyers you will alienate.
That said, I strongly believe that a person's preference for either the Civic or the 3 has a lot to do with their driving priorities. The 3 handles better, is more powerful, and is just sportier all the way around, from the interior cloth to the red lighting to the ride/handling, steering, and acceleration. The Civic is a competent driver, and it's overall more comfortable than the 3, but there's a bit of mass market mush to it that I don't like. But that bit of mush makes it the comfier, squishier car that the vast majority of people (especially commuters) will undoubtedly prefer. Plus, with some 17's at least a measure of the handling will come back.
On a side note, personally I think that the Civic Si is more comparable to the standard 3s than it is to the Mazdaspeed. I still think the 3 takes the cake because it isn't as...well, hard core as the Si with its snappy ride motions and snatchy high-performance clutch even if the 3 is a touch slower and clumsier. I figure if it's gotta be fast, then the Mazdaspeed is faster and handles well enough.
Just my 2 cents. From the looks of it, if this forum could cash in on all the 2-cent pieces running around it'd be a millionaire!
Will be swapping out my LX steelies in the next couple of weeks for some great condition 16"ers from a '05 Civic Si I purchased on eBay. Then, I'll finally have it outfitted the way I want. The sunroof was the deal breaker on not getting the EX last June, never had good luck with my aftermarket unit I had in the early '80's.
What can I say, we're very content with both the Civic & the M3. The 3 is definitely the more fun car in the driving category...blows the Civic away!
The Sandman
Wow. Do you care to elaborate on how you know Mazda had adapted to management styles of Ford, and what proof you have to back that statement up? What exactly is the Japanese method?
To state that Mazda quality is not better then Ford's is so far fetched. Just look at their respective track records.
Last I checked, the V6 Mazda 6's were "below Average" on Consumer Reports (although I'll admit it's been months since I saw that report), while the Fusion seems to be doing well, with nary a recall.
The Mazda6 V6 is a Ford Duratec 30 engine. Quality is also present in how well the vehicle is put together, materials used, lack of "rattles" or "noises" found after mileage has been put on, how the electrical system performs. Not just the engine and transmission. If you look at the Mazda6 4 cyl and all the Mazda's built by Mazda (not Ford), you will see the difference (Mazda3, MX-5 etc..).
This answer is problematic for consumers. As consumers, why shouldn't we expect the same quality in all of the lineup of a particular brand? If certain models are problematic this reflects badly on the brand generally. Maybe the Mazda6 V6 is an example of failed global integration. The Ford-Mazda relationship in these cases is not working to create greater synergy.
I happen to agree with you there. It is unfortunate that in some cases a bad apple can ruin the bunch, for John Q. Public.
I happen to know, from experience, that Mazda's with virtually no Ford integration happen to be much better then the once that have more integration. I personally, do not think Fords are all that bad. They do have their problems, but, every brand does as well, and I believe that Ford has really made an effort to better their product. I am not saying they are on par with Honda or Toyota, or even Mazda, but, they are getting better.
I know this is a Civic vs Mazda3 forum, sorry for the tangent. However, the Mazda3 is a good example of Japanese engineering, and how well they built a vehicle. Just like Honda does with the Civic.
Agreed!
Disagree. :P
My experience, that's my proof. That's what's life all about...experiences. In life, the facts are not important as much as the truth.
How does your ownership experience prove you know how Mazda manages their company?
From a financial perspective, Mazda is increasing profits year to year as well as increasing sales, whereas Ford is losing money and decreasing in sales. How can that be if they run their companys the same way?
However, sometimes there is already a very negative impression even before you come to a dealership and I think that is what happened. When someone is mad, there isn't anything you can say to make it better. Part of his anger was when he saw a speed3 out in the front and wondered who drove it. Service drove it to make sure it worked properly. I felt terrible with the whole outcome.
You are correct, it is a sports Hatchback.