Ask the people at the top. They are the "shareholders" investing their millions in companies and demanding unsustainable ROI's.
Well part of the problem is that the people at the top benefit from these booms and busts. Seriously, all you have to do is have some money invested risky, some money invested in low-risk things, and then rebalance periodically. When it looks like things are too good to be true, cash in some of your risky stuff, and then when the market drops, buy some of it back.
Of course, that's easier said than done. A lot of people can't do that, simply because in a recession they might lose their job, home equity, and half of their portfolio all in one fell swoop. And when you lose your job and need money to keep afloat, your only choice might be to cash in investments that have lost a lot of value.
"Marketers don't sell what people want, they tell people what to want."
I just don't see how folks can be persuaded to buy things they don't want (2 exceptions...time shares and UAW cars in the 60s and 70s when they were virtually, the only thing to buy, and one DOES need a car)...
I don't want an xBox and no amount of ads will change that...and I cannot see someone buying an xBox when they don't want it, regardless of advertising...now ads did help me buy an iPod, simply because advertising made me aware of it and I liked what it would do, carry 2000 of my favorite songs without commercials and poor reception...but still, I would not buy it if I had no desire to carry music with me...
Well, marketing is all about demographics...you don't sell video games to 60 year olds and you don't sell motorhomes to 15 year olds. But you can tell each what to buy. And the key there is "tell".
Why did you buy an ipod over a much cheaper yet just as effective machine?
I was looking for a professional quality 18v cordless drill so I contacted a friend in the home remodeling business to find what he recommended. It turns out that he likes Makita power tools so -after a little follow-up research- that's the brand I went with. Advertising might make me aware of a brand and/or product but it is virtually never the deciding factor in one of my buying decisions.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I did check out others, but I thought the iPod was well made and it did what I want...I also bought a cheap $13 item with less capacity for working out at the gym, so if I lost that one, I wouldn't feel so bad...the iPod for (nonviolent) travel and sitting around the house, and the cheapie for (violent) workouts...both serve a need...all I am saying is that ads make me aware something exists, but if the iPod seemed like the $13 cheapie, I would not have paid more for it...plus, even tho I am a PC user, I believe from friends that Apple does make quality products...
Why did you buy an ipod over a much cheaper yet just as effective machine?
Now, now, don't put dissenting thoughts into the masses...I want my Apple stock to keep going up! :P
And that advertising stuff does work. I might be getting a free Iphone because Apple came out with a new one, and a friend of mine just has to have it SOOOO bad because it's SOOOO much better and SOOOO much more gotta-have than the old Iphone.
Dunno if I'm gonna take him up on the offer though, because I don't know what it'll do to my monthly cell phone bill.
My apple stock has been treating me well too. apple has pricing power because their products are generally easier to use and they work well. I spent some time playing with my bil's iphone 4. No question it's a better phone than my Samsung captivate (galaxy s) android phone. Add how simple itunes works, it's easy to see why apple dominates.
Why did you buy an ipod over a much cheaper yet just as effective machine?
Sort of like arguing why people buy BMWs over GMs. They are both effective in getting you there, and some GMs even faster. You are buying a level of quality and feel, not just raw functionality. And with the Apple products, you are also buying an ecosystem of the best online music store and the most peripherals and other products that go with your choice.
I just got an ipod for that same reason - co-worker just had to get the latest model, didn't want anything to do with the "old" one. He's also someone who ran up more consumer debt than anyone I know...what a coincidence.
So, was the Makita made in the States? I bought a Dewalt (which is a great tool), thinking it was made here, got home and read the fine print (and I mean REALLY fine print) on the box: made in 3 different countries and South America. Got on the horn and called Lowes and asked if they had ANY cordless drills made here. The guy put me on hold for several minutes. Came back and said, "Sorry." I was pissed off the entire weekend.
Looking for a new car but would not be caught DEAD in a Japanese vehicle esp. an American people killer by the name of Toyota. You could not give me one for free ! I`ll stay with the American companies owned and made in the USA, my cars and truck are older models but I can rebuild or repair them forever. So far they have not needed much. I won`t support companies that come from the AXIS powers of WW1 and 2, my father was a fighter pilot. For further info on the invasion of America contact Numbers USA and The Tea Party Don`t sell your stuff here, even if it`s assembled in the USA, Toyota moving backwards and out we hope !
I appreciate your position, but a major reason OUR cars are better today, IMO, is that the quality of the Japanese cars in the 80s and 90s put our junk to shame...our Big 3 made their quality improvements only because they HAD to, not because they felt some dying urge to give us the best...so we owe Honda and Toyota a debt of gratitude, like it or not...rest assured, the UAW never did anything to make their product better, and would not until forced to do so...
That may be true, but I think domestic cars which now imitate Japanese brands are so incredibly boring. I'd take a '70's car with a decent resale value that most folks could afford new and which could be traded in, in three years than what passes for new cars today. Thanks, Toyota and Honda. Thanks for helping your countries back in WWII too.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I have a bil that works for a tool and die shop in michigan which sells dies to ford, GM, Toyota, Hyundai, and Nissan. We were talking yesterday and he told me the Asian makes still demand dies that have much tighter tolerances than the domestics.
I think anybody should buy whatever they prefer--up to them.
For me, the "Revolution" was over 200 years ago. WWII ended 65 years ago. The main difference is, there are folks still alive on all sides who participated. To me, that's a big difference. America lost 400K lives--yes, 400K--in WWII.
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I guess I just can't see that as a purchasing influence. If I did, I would also have to look at the domestic military-industrial complex who influenced the American role in the war and those losses. Soviets lost an insanely higher amount, but I have never met a Russian who had the same feelings - perhaps the most avid fans (other than those in the homeland) of German cars are Russian.
American firms via their influence on foreign policy also aided the reds in the big war, the same reds who would enable the death of a further 100K Americans in later wars...so it's kind of a fuzzy debate.
I respect your opinion, but I don't honestly see how that can be compared to what happened to us during the Second World War...despite any conspiracy theories that can be dreamed up by some folks (not you).
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Nothing but respect here, I am not arguing, I just don't see it. We weren't innocent victims of anything then or at any other time. I anyway don't have any ego over that war. Probably the greatest waste of lives on all sides in the history of western civilization. Really, a tragedy for everyone involved, setting in motion events that we can't yet begin to grasp.
My grandfather was in the Aleutians during that terrible war and later would own both Japanese and German cars. He didn't carry the grudge for too long, apparently.
A guy at the local Mercedes Club of America show this year was actually a POW at Stalag IX-B. What was he driving? A brand new E350 cabrio. Didn't hold a grudge to the current builders of cars because of the actions of long-dead lunatic leadership. And for a product like that, the domestics simply don't make anything comparable anyway.
And no worries about conspiracy theories...I love em :shades: ...and wars don't happen out of random events.
Let's see...Hitler on one side; FDR on our side Hirohito on one side; FDR on our side Mussolini on one side; FDR on our side
I guess Stalin seemed at the time (without later hindsight) to be the lesser of two evils by our guys.
It's pretty clear who the genuinely bad guys were...'Stockholm Syndrome' not withstanding.
But again...choice of automobiles is a personal decision.
My guess is that those who think differently are generally (accent on 'generally') younger than me.
I have a copy of the V-E Day paper from our small hometown (not a suburb; 9,000 residents). At that time, 35 soldiers had been killed in the war...each one had a photo and a small story in the paper and mentioned the parents and their addresses. My Dad had kept it all those years and I had it laminated. This really brought the war home to me, so to speak.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Yeah, Stalin hadn't been slaughtering people since the 30s, his government hadn't been behind the death of millions before 1939, and the reds hadn't had desires to expand into Europe and more since around 1920 when Poles and Finns bravely held them off (and the former were fed to the red beast by the supposed good guys)...nope, none of that is true, really, great guys. Few want to face that those alliances created the American deaths in Korea and Vietnam. And I won't even touch on the endless list of crimes from the British empire. We can be thankful that the horrible war sent those ones off to the graveyard of history, and Britain today is a depressing yet hilarious shadow of itself. While Germany is once again the dominant member of Europe, all the while receiving far less ERP funds than England or France.
We have no right to a moral high ground, nobody does. Everyone is a criminal. It's human nature.
Maybe it would be an issue for me if most "allied" vehicles that I would actually want to own weren't made before I was born...
Well, we have a USS Indianapolis survivor that lives in our small town. He drives a Camry, so apparently nearly being killed by a torpedo from a Japanese sub hasn't deterred him from buying a Japanese car. Plus, like others have said, who we to judge, our hands are far from clean.
We have no right to a moral high ground, nobody does. Everyone is a criminal. It's human nature.
Gen. Curtis Lemay, the man in charge of bombing Japanese civilian targets (Tokyo and othe civilian areas) once said that he would be charged as a war criminal if the US lost the war.
At least, he was truthful about what he was doing at the time...
Living in the South, its easy to find someone who still holds a grudge against the North, and that war ended 150 years ago. Seems that some folks just can't let the past go....
I occasionally get the itch for a motorcycle...had a Japanese and an Italian tempting me, but now I think I want a BMW. Those darned Axis bastards
Fin, a good friend of mine has owned several Japanese motorcycles over the years and last year he bought a BMW 1200GS. He absolutely loves it. He also considered a Ducati, but couldn't pull the trigger on one. He doesn't deal well with temperamental cars or bikes so in the end he passed on it.
I personally have a problem with "letting go of the past" when we're talking 400,000 U.S. servicemen lives, little more than a decade before I was born, affecting many people in my close-knit hometown. No one can tell me that anything the U.S. did warranted the attack at Pearl Harbor, or Hitler's attempt at world domination. Anything else is delusional or "feel good" thinking I'm afraid...like only mentioning Stalin and ignoring those 'other guys'. Of course, it's not as simple as that, but I find some of the discussion on here about World War II to be frightening. I've said my last thing about it, but I expect to hear more about it..have at it.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Oh yeah, I love the GS series bikes, I think they even look cool. I also think the new S1000RR is insanely cool, but both are just so pricey, and as I get older I am getting cheaper about vehicles - not to mention chicken about riding a bike with the oblivious motorists in this area. But it's been on my mind a lot, especially in the past year. I had been looking at an Aprilia too, but as you say, Italian...worries me a little.
We can't hold our noses up at anyone. I can't embrace claims of moral high ground or supposedly unprovoked attacks or failing to address one wanting to build an empire when an equally evil force already had one. Nobody has blood-free hands, and nobody truly acted out of altruism.
I anyway can't make a purchasing decision based on all of this. The real criminals are all dead now, the governments and leadership structures are long gone.
It doesn't require much searching online to find people who think Chomsky is a nutjob, but I can't buy that those poor guys in Japan and Germany in WWII really weren't that bad, and we are almost as bad. I wonder if the rest of the world, even, would come to that conclusion about WWII. I doubt it. Scary as hell.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Plenty think FDR and Churchill were nutjobs too. Everyone has a detractor. But read Chomsky's babble and try to debate it.
We are not all about truth and justice, honestly and righteousness. Japan and Germany were criminals - and we along with our allies have virtually the same history. All wannabe empires are criminals. We can't be smug and self-righteous about the past.
It's scary in my eyes to see anything even close to black and white regarding the war.
My father was in the Army Air Corps in WW II while my mother's parents immigrated from Germany in the 1920s. One of her cousins was a Luftwaffe pilot. My German grandfather gave me grief for buying German and Japanese cars as well as an Italian motorcycle. Dad didn't mind the German car or the bike, but was less enthused about my Japanese car. Me, I'll keep my Jeep, my Triumph motorcycle, and my Raleigh road bike- but from now on my cars will only come from Germany.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Some say the best way to keep the peace between nations is to trade with them.
If products and commodities cannot cross borders then guns and tanks do.
I am not really interested in the color of skin or language spoken but who produces the best product commensurate with the value factor. My vote goes to the producer who works the hardest and sweats the details.
Throughout history it seems that every tribe has slaughtered every tribe.
Then again I certainly understand the heartfelt emotions of those who lost loved ones in war.
No one can tell me that anything the U.S. did warranted the attack at Pearl Harbor
I wouldn't argue with you, but I suggest that you research the Pearl Harbor attack & the events that led up to it, as I did about 20 years ago. After I finished, much of the anger that I had felt toward the Japanese was transferred to our own top brass - notably Admiral Husband E. Kimmel, who was C-in-C Pacific Fleet at the time, & General Walter Short, who commanded the Army's Hawaiian Department.
Kimmel & Short shared responsibility for Pearl Harbor's security. Kimmel had primary responsibility while the Pacific Fleet was in the harbor, while Short was top dog while the Fleet was at sea.
Kimmel was absolutely convinced that a Japanese attack against Pearl would only take place while the Fleet was at sea, so he refused to take even elementary precautions - comprehensive aerial reconnaissance, for example - while the Fleet was in the harbor.
Short was equally convinced that any Japanese attack would take the form of sabotage. Consequently, he ordered Army fighter planes parked close together in bunches so that sentries could more easily guard them. As it happened, this also made it much easier for Japanese warplanes to destroy them before they could take off.
Both Short & Kimmel failed to act on a "war warning" message sent from Washington a few days before the attack.
If these men had done their jobs properly, Pearl Harbor would have been ready for war, & the Japanese would have killed or wounded far fewer Americans & inflicted far less damage. After the war, Japanese pilots who had participated in the attack said that they were astonished at how little resistance they encountered.
I was infuriated when the Senate passed a resolution in 1999 that largely exonerated Kimmel & Short.
Shame on them...but they didn't do the actual bombing. The Japanese did. And before someone trots out Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I'd suggest that everyone knows (or should know) that a land invasion of Japan was the next step and that 500K U.S. casualties were expected--because of Japan's kamikaze/never surrender attitude. In fact, even after Hiroshima, they refused to surrender.
As far as examples of folks being "OK" with it all, I do know a Jewish guy who to this day will not consider a Benz.
I feel that some stories about LBJ shooting JFK from two cars back and GWB planning 9/11 aren't far away on this board!
OK, that's an exaggeration.
As far as "moving on" or "getting over the past", for me it's a lot easier to get over that so-and-so's domestic car from 1985 was a piece of crap. If people won't even try an American brand auto today, and look for one built here and with high domestic content (they are out there, it doesn't take a ton of work to find them), then those people are as narrow-minded as anybody out there.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Hi Marsha, Toyota first came out with the top of the line junk car and still can`t get it right and progressed to putting American`s in their graves like in WW2. Check your facts about the best by starting with the Shelby Snake and Cobra (427) and the Cadillac Escalade (and our Hybrids)and Toyota still can`t catch the Chevrolet Corvette and Honda has a long way to go to match the 440 Dodge Magnum Charger (1967-70) remember The Dukes of Hazzard on TV and the R/T style and lets not forget the Ford T-Bird in 1958 w/ a 430 CID pushing 350 HP back then and the Dodge Challenger is highest rated in it`s class by J.D. Powers(but what do they know) and the 1970 earth - shaking Hemi and the 440 R/T Six Pack 396 CID and the Barracuda ( 440 Cuda) Mopar Muscle Hemi powered and Lincoln Continental Mark V 1979 and today is top of the line just for starters to think about. I once had a 1968 454 CID (NOS) Charger all tricked out and no one could catch me except topfuel.
Hi uplander, WELL SAID all of it except the LBJ part he was involved but JFK`s head went backwards from the bullet and it was from up front and very low so LBJ could not have pulled the trigger so who did. Try the FBI`s sniper expert and instructor that was there that day and pictures have him in the exact location also computers have proven the location. NOTE; the FBI had no love for JFK at all but I do and still feel the pain as I saw him shot. But this is off the track. Just don`t buy those imports esp from COMMUNIST China put them back on the shelf and just say no ! Question on JFK; why was all the evidence removed and why all the cover up in the plane back, notice the coffin change etc. Someone needs to step up and tell the truth. But he won`t.
I've long been interested in the JFK assassination and have visited Dealey Plaza and would like to return...but that's probably best-left to another forum!
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Shame on them...but they didn't do the actual bombing. The Japanese did. And before someone trots out Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I'd suggest that everyone knows (or should know) that a land invasion of Japan was the next step and that 500K U.S. casualties were expected--because of Japan's kamikaze/never surrender attitude. In fact, even after Hiroshima, they refused to surrender.
As a student of WWII, I believe that President Truman would have committed an impeachable offense if he had chosen not to use the A-bomb, once it was available. Those bombs saved more lives - both American & Japanese - than they cost
Going back to Pearl Harbor, I can't help but be struck by the difference between our fleets during the months leading up to the attack. Our Atlantic Fleet was on a wartime footing, with all units on a high state of alert. We had been exchanging fire with German U-boats since the summer of 1941. We obviously took Germany much more seriously as a potential adversary than we did Japan. Every high-ranking American officer firmly believed that war with Germany was inevitable & that the U.S. should prepare for it.
(Interestingly enough, it was widely rumored during the weeks after Pearl Harbor that the Japanese planes that took part in the attack were actually piloted by German Luftwaffe pilots. Even then, many Americans refused to believe that the Japanese had the technology & the skills to pull off the attack.)
In contrast, the Pacific Fleet might as well have been on another planet, even though the U.S. military had drawn up plans (known as War Plan Orange) for war with Japan back in the 1920s. Traditionally based in San Diego, the Fleet was transferred to Pearl just a year & a half prior to the attack to send a message to the Japanese - a move that made it much more vulnerable. The failure of senior commanders to take steps to mitigate that vulnerability is nothing short of criminal.
(Incidentally, I don't subscribe to the theory that FDR, looking for a "casus belli", deliberately baited the Japanese into launching the attack.)
In any event, the Japanese who planned & authorized the attack have been dead for decades. I doubt if any of the pilots who carried out the attacks is still alive. (Many of them died less than 6 months later, when the U.S. Navy sank 4 Japanese carriers during the Battle of Midway.) In all likelihood, none of the people, whether American or Japanese, actually involved in designing & building Japanese-brand cars was old enough to have fought in WWII. So I still can't see why this should be an issue, unless you believe that the children are accountable for the sins of their fathers. I certainly don't.
Would you apply that sentiment that the UAW members who built your Dad's lousy '85 Ford aren't the same people who build the '10 Taurus, and the management at Ford isn't the same? I do think the sins of Japan and Germany in WWII way exceed the sins of the Big Three, but it seems like folks are generally way more forgiving of the war enemies (only slightly kidding) than Detroit.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
As we all sit and read the latest news about unemployment, lets THINK. Over the last 20-30 years we have shipped so much of our wealth and jobs overseas what were we expecting to happen? Yet, as a society we are still like lemmings.. heading to Walmart, buying foreign goods and services... and still expecting jobs here at home??? We are all connected in this economy folks. Take a minute and think about it. Demand American products and services.
Comments
Ask the people at the top. They are the "shareholders" investing their millions in companies and demanding unsustainable ROI's.
Well part of the problem is that the people at the top benefit from these booms and busts. Seriously, all you have to do is have some money invested risky, some money invested in low-risk things, and then rebalance periodically. When it looks like things are too good to be true, cash in some of your risky stuff, and then when the market drops, buy some of it back.
Of course, that's easier said than done. A lot of people can't do that, simply because in a recession they might lose their job, home equity, and half of their portfolio all in one fell swoop. And when you lose your job and need money to keep afloat, your only choice might be to cash in investments that have lost a lot of value.
I just don't see how folks can be persuaded to buy things they don't want (2 exceptions...time shares and UAW cars in the 60s and 70s when they were virtually, the only thing to buy, and one DOES need a car)...
I don't want an xBox and no amount of ads will change that...and I cannot see someone buying an xBox when they don't want it, regardless of advertising...now ads did help me buy an iPod, simply because advertising made me aware of it and I liked what it would do, carry 2000 of my favorite songs without commercials and poor reception...but still, I would not buy it if I had no desire to carry music with me...
Why did you buy an ipod over a much cheaper yet just as effective machine?
(You know Steve Jobs is a big Democrat, right?) :shades:
fwiw, we just got a new mattress that was made in the US. Still shopping those sneakers though.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Now, now, don't put dissenting thoughts into the masses...I want my Apple stock to keep going up! :P
And that advertising stuff does work. I might be getting a free Iphone because Apple came out with a new one, and a friend of mine just has to have it SOOOO bad because it's SOOOO much better and SOOOO much more gotta-have than the old Iphone.
Dunno if I'm gonna take him up on the offer though, because I don't know what it'll do to my monthly cell phone bill.
Sort of like arguing why people buy BMWs over GMs. They are both effective in getting you there, and some GMs even faster. You are buying a level of quality and feel, not just raw functionality. And with the Apple products, you are also buying an ecosystem of the best online music store and the most peripherals and other products that go with your choice.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
and 2, my father was a fighter pilot. For further info on the invasion of America contact Numbers USA and The Tea Party Don`t sell your stuff here, even if it`s assembled in the USA, Toyota moving backwards and out we hope !
If the tea party doesn't want me to buy something, that doesn't make me want to run away from it :shades:
If people refused to buy from American companies based on old American crimes, nobody would be buying anything.
I hope he doesn't listen to the Beatles, look at what England did in the Revolution!
For me, the "Revolution" was over 200 years ago. WWII ended 65 years ago. The main difference is, there are folks still alive on all sides who participated. To me, that's a big difference. America lost 400K lives--yes, 400K--in WWII.
American firms via their influence on foreign policy also aided the reds in the big war, the same reds who would enable the death of a further 100K Americans in later wars...so it's kind of a fuzzy debate.
My grandfather was in the Aleutians during that terrible war and later would own both Japanese and German cars. He didn't carry the grudge for too long, apparently.
A guy at the local Mercedes Club of America show this year was actually a POW at Stalag IX-B. What was he driving? A brand new E350 cabrio. Didn't hold a grudge to the current builders of cars because of the actions of long-dead lunatic leadership. And for a product like that, the domestics simply don't make anything comparable anyway.
And no worries about conspiracy theories...I love em :shades: ...and wars don't happen out of random events.
Ditto for my BMWs and the Mazda. It kind of makes me want to find a nice Alfa GTV- then I'd have a true "Axis" fleet!!!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Hirohito on one side; FDR on our side
Mussolini on one side; FDR on our side
I guess Stalin seemed at the time (without later hindsight) to be the lesser of two evils by our guys.
It's pretty clear who the genuinely bad guys were...'Stockholm Syndrome' not withstanding.
But again...choice of automobiles is a personal decision.
My guess is that those who think differently are generally (accent on 'generally') younger than me.
I have a copy of the V-E Day paper from our small hometown (not a suburb; 9,000 residents). At that time, 35 soldiers had been killed in the war...each one had a photo and a small story in the paper and mentioned the parents and their addresses. My Dad had kept it all those years and I had it laminated. This really brought the war home to me, so to speak.
We have no right to a moral high ground, nobody does. Everyone is a criminal.
It's human nature.
Maybe it would be an issue for me if most "allied" vehicles that I would actually want to own weren't made before I was born...
It's human nature.
Gen. Curtis Lemay, the man in charge of bombing Japanese civilian targets (Tokyo and othe civilian areas) once said that he would be charged as a war criminal if the US lost the war.
At least, he was truthful about what he was doing at the time...
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/curtis_lemay.html
Living in the South, its easy to find someone who still holds a grudge against the North, and that war ended 150 years ago. Seems that some folks just can't let the past go....
Fin, a good friend of mine has owned several Japanese motorcycles over the years and last year he bought a BMW 1200GS. He absolutely loves it. He also considered a Ducati, but couldn't pull the trigger on one. He doesn't deal well with temperamental cars or bikes so in the end he passed on it.
We can't hold our noses up at anyone. I can't embrace claims of moral high ground or supposedly unprovoked attacks or failing to address one wanting to build an empire when an equally evil force already had one. Nobody has blood-free hands, and nobody truly acted out of altruism.
I anyway can't make a purchasing decision based on all of this. The real criminals are all dead now, the governments and leadership structures are long gone.
We are not all about truth and justice, honestly and righteousness. Japan and Germany were criminals - and we along with our allies have virtually the same history. All wannabe empires are criminals. We can't be smug and self-righteous about the past.
It's scary in my eyes to see anything even close to black and white regarding the war.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
If products and commodities cannot cross borders then guns and tanks do.
I am not really interested in the color of skin or language spoken but who produces the best product commensurate with the value factor. My vote goes to the producer who works the hardest and sweats the details.
Throughout history it seems that every tribe has slaughtered every tribe.
Then again I certainly understand the heartfelt emotions of those who lost loved ones in war.
Let us trade and have peace.
I wouldn't argue with you, but I suggest that you research the Pearl Harbor attack & the events that led up to it, as I did about 20 years ago. After I finished, much of the anger that I had felt toward the Japanese was transferred to our own top brass - notably Admiral Husband E. Kimmel, who was C-in-C Pacific Fleet at the time, & General Walter Short, who commanded the Army's Hawaiian Department.
Kimmel & Short shared responsibility for Pearl Harbor's security. Kimmel had primary responsibility while the Pacific Fleet was in the harbor, while Short was top dog while the Fleet was at sea.
Kimmel was absolutely convinced that a Japanese attack against Pearl would only take place while the Fleet was at sea, so he refused to take even elementary precautions - comprehensive aerial reconnaissance, for example - while the Fleet was in the harbor.
Short was equally convinced that any Japanese attack would take the form of sabotage. Consequently, he ordered Army fighter planes parked close together in bunches so that sentries could more easily guard them. As it happened, this also made it much easier for Japanese warplanes to destroy them before they could take off.
Both Short & Kimmel failed to act on a "war warning" message sent from Washington a few days before the attack.
If these men had done their jobs properly, Pearl Harbor would have been ready for war, & the Japanese would have killed or wounded far fewer Americans & inflicted far less damage. After the war, Japanese pilots who had participated in the attack said that they were astonished at how little resistance they encountered.
I was infuriated when the Senate passed a resolution in 1999 that largely exonerated Kimmel & Short.
As far as examples of folks being "OK" with it all, I do know a Jewish guy who to this day will not consider a Benz.
I feel that some stories about LBJ shooting JFK from two cars back and GWB planning 9/11 aren't far away on this board!
OK, that's an exaggeration.
As far as "moving on" or "getting over the past", for me it's a lot easier to get over that so-and-so's domestic car from 1985 was a piece of crap. If people won't even try an American brand auto today, and look for one built here and with high domestic content (they are out there, it doesn't take a ton of work to find them), then those people are as narrow-minded as anybody out there.
and Honda has a long way to go to match the 440 Dodge Magnum Charger (1967-70) remember The Dukes of Hazzard on TV and the R/T style and lets not forget the Ford T-Bird in 1958 w/ a 430 CID pushing 350 HP back then and the Dodge Challenger is highest rated in it`s class by J.D. Powers(but what do they know) and the 1970 earth -
shaking Hemi and the 440 R/T Six Pack 396 CID and the Barracuda ( 440 Cuda) Mopar Muscle Hemi powered and Lincoln Continental Mark V 1979 and today is top of the line just for starters to think about. I once had a 1968 454 CID (NOS) Charger all tricked out and no one could catch me except topfuel.
Question on JFK; why was all the evidence removed and why all the cover up in the plane back, notice the coffin change etc. Someone needs to step up and tell the truth.
But he won`t.
As a student of WWII, I believe that President Truman would have committed an impeachable offense if he had chosen not to use the A-bomb, once it was available. Those bombs saved more lives - both American & Japanese - than they cost
Going back to Pearl Harbor, I can't help but be struck by the difference between our fleets during the months leading up to the attack. Our Atlantic Fleet was on a wartime footing, with all units on a high state of alert. We had been exchanging fire with German U-boats since the summer of 1941. We obviously took Germany much more seriously as a potential adversary than we did Japan. Every high-ranking American officer firmly believed that war with Germany was inevitable & that the U.S. should prepare for it.
(Interestingly enough, it was widely rumored during the weeks after Pearl Harbor that the Japanese planes that took part in the attack were actually piloted by German Luftwaffe pilots. Even then, many Americans refused to believe that the Japanese had the technology & the skills to pull off the attack.)
In contrast, the Pacific Fleet might as well have been on another planet, even though the U.S. military had drawn up plans (known as War Plan Orange) for war with Japan back in the 1920s. Traditionally based in San Diego, the Fleet was transferred to Pearl just a year & a half prior to the attack to send a message to the Japanese - a move that made it much more vulnerable. The failure of senior commanders to take steps to mitigate that vulnerability is nothing short of criminal.
(Incidentally, I don't subscribe to the theory that FDR, looking for a "casus belli", deliberately baited the Japanese into launching the attack.)
In any event, the Japanese who planned & authorized the attack have been dead for decades. I doubt if any of the pilots who carried out the attacks is still alive. (Many of them died less than 6 months later, when the U.S. Navy sank 4 Japanese carriers during the Battle of Midway.) In all likelihood, none of the people, whether American or Japanese, actually involved in designing & building Japanese-brand cars was old enough to have fought in WWII. So I still can't see why this should be an issue, unless you believe that the children are accountable for the sins of their fathers. I certainly don't.