Governments impose tariffs to discourage the consumers from buying foreign products. As you can see this tends to cause tension between the trading nations. One thing that does not create tension is when the people, on their own free will, buy their own domestic products. It's not the administration's fault if Americans suddenly prefer products made in their own country. Bobad, you weren't the only one boycotting foreign products. Actually I haven't completely boycotted foreign products, but I buy American to the maximum extent possible. I'd rather fry my eggs in a $50 Ohio-made Calphalon skillet than a $15 Chinese Farberware skillet. With little things like that the price difference is significant, with vehicles, such as my GMC Yukon, I chose the Janesville WI built truck instead of the Mexican one sitting next to it (same price) which had a few more options I wanted. Obviously they know it matters to some, since it's posted on the sticker. I'm no economist, but it seems to me if we just let the manufacturers know that we value items made in our own country (by buying them), they will be less likely to manufacture overseas. It shouldn't take the government marking up foreign goods to make us buy American.
...of whether those cheap cars are $5K or $15K, I can still get an exponentially nicer older car for either price. The only way I'd take a Geely of Chery is if somebody gave it to me for free as a gag gift - especially the one that tries to ape a C-Class.
because the domestics gave up on the kind of cars I like before I was born (and didn't do much more than a half-assed job before that). I like FWD subcompact and RWD compact sedans and hatches, and the domestics have made it clear that they are uninterested in my business. Thus, my money goes to Asian makes which *do* offer those cars (European cars are unacceptably heavy).
A few years back, we had no bargaining chips when asking China to change their trading practices. Well, that's no longer the case! China is now officially hooked on American trade! Losing even half of our trade would be an economic disaster for China. They will complain, posture, bluster, and bellyache, but we now have the upper hand. I'm not saying we can cause radical changes there, but we can get fairer trade practices. You can say just about the same thing for Korea and Japan. It's time to play our trump cards in the Asian rim so American cars can compete!
I'll buy a Alabama built Honda or Hyundai. There's a lot of U.S. logistics that went into that car. I'd even buy a South Carolina built Bimmer. Buying a "totally" foreign car is out of the question. I doubt I would even buy a U.S. make that has outsourced to Mexico. No point defending the borders if you aren't gonna protect the our economy.
What bargaining chips do we have? What trump cards do we have? "Losing even half of our trade..." How would that happen? "... we now have the upper hand." I would describe our relationship with China as symbiotic. They need us to buy products they manufacture. We need them to buy products we manufacture.
I'm not saying the import-export stream between us and China is balanced. Far from it, as seen by our balance of trade deficit with them. But if we take action against their products, we need to recognize that they will take similar action against us. We can accomplish more working with them than we can against them.
I believe China needs us more than we need them. We can get cheap goods all over Asia, the Balkans, Latin America, and even Russia. We need to pressure them to buy more goods and services from us. They also need to be pressured into raising the value of the Yuan. It's been held artifically low so that the Chinese people can't afford American goods.
I think they are ridiculous and short sighted...first, how can the Chinese buy our goods, made with inflated union wages???...they are the ones making $1-2/hour, and for them it is a good wage (or so we are told)...they are the slave labor that is supposed to buy our goods made with $20-50/hour union wages???has anybody ever thought that scenario out, except to mouth the words "they need to buy more of our products?"...do you think they are buying VCRs, high end stereos, Emeril's cookbook, Bowflex machines, etc???...think of what you are saying...you are expecting folks who make $50/week to buy our stuff that we get paid $25/hour to make???...your assertion rings less than hollow...
The other alternative is for us to place a tariff on the goods coming in to the US...but tariffs just make it cost more to us, so we are now preventing our own consumers from taking advantage of lower prices...so, to play politics for a moment, all those poor and semi-poor folks who now buy their wardrobes at WalMart, will be forced to buy only 1/4 as much, because the tariffs will make the price of a $9 shirt jump to $25/30 or so...they now buy fewer shirts, and have we really created any jobs here at home???...if the shirts cost too much, even if we made them here they would only buy an occasional shirt, so American employment does not get helped...with fewer sales the folks who work at Walmart now lose jobs, so you don't help them at all...all the tariffs will do is reduce the overall level of sales and jobs here, and, as an added bonus, create unemployment in China...
Now I could care less about unemployment in China, but if we get hurt in the process, what good does that do???
Oh, the "level playing field" crap...someone needs to get past third grade and stop saying stupid phrases with meaningless words...China, Japan, and SE Asia hardly need Suburbans, Escalades, Crown Vics, Excursions and other vehicles that take up probably both lanes of their tiny roads...plus, their gas costs are probably higher than ours...we are a consumer society because we have the disposable income to spend on things other than the barest necessities...many things we have here are simply luxuries in the rest of the world...do they need our colognes and after shaves, considering that most Asians hardly have facial hair???...do they need CDs of the Beatles and Rap music???...what level playing field do you mean???... everybody mouths the words like the child mimicking what Daddy says without any comprehension at all...
There can never be a level playing field until we are reduced to subsistence level or the Chinese all need Escalades...and no, if they already make their own shirts, I hardly think we can compete by selling them our shirts...the concept of level playing field, which started in the 1980s with the onslaught of Honda and Toyota, has been, and always will be, childish thinking and a fairy tale to rival Peter Pan...sorry...
I think they are ridiculous and short sighted...first, how can the Chinese buy our goods, made with inflated union wages???...they are the ones making $1-2/hour, and for them it is a good wage (or so we are told)...they are the slave labor that is supposed to buy our goods made with $20-50/hour union wages???has anybody ever thought that scenario out, except to mouth the words "they need to buy more of our products?"...do you think they are buying VCRs, high end stereos, Emeril's cookbook, Bowflex machines, etc???...think of what you are saying...you are expecting folks who make $50/week to buy our stuff that we get paid $25/hour to make???...your assertion rings less than hollow...
I think it's ridiculous and shortsightedness such as your above comment that inspires people to overlook what is wrong with globalaization. It's one thing if American corporations went over to foreign country's to provide good jobs with good benefits, but to go over to chain children to a machine to sew you $200 pair of Nike AirMax basketball shoes is saying to the rest of the world we feel it's okay to support slavery. If they paid them a decent wage instead of exploiting the population, we just might beable to make China a friend instead of a potential enemy. They might then beable to afford american good like the Europeans and Canadians. However you like you said like your $9 dollar Walley World shirts and love supporting American Slave labor shops in China. :confuse:
Now I could care less about unemployment in China, but if we get hurt in the process, what good does that do???
I do support employing Chinese workers if it's going to have a positive affect on the people. Chaining children to a machine is puts a negative affect in the populus and don't think this happens. I've seen the Video's where Children are baught and sold as slaves to Corporation such as Nike. Children are used and abused for sex. I'm sorry I have morales and faith, and feel the big man upstairs will seek punishment for all of are corporate wrong doers. :mad:
Oh, the "level playing field" crap...someone needs to get past third grade and stop saying stupid phrases with meaningless words...China, Japan, and SE Asia hardly need Suburbans, Escalades, Crown Vics, Excursions and other vehicles that take up probably both lanes of their tiny roads...plus, their gas costs are probably higher than ours...we are a consumer society because we have the disposable income to spend on things other than the barest necessities...many things we have here are simply luxuries in the rest of the world...do they need our colognes and after shaves, considering that most Asians hardly have facial hair???...do they need CDs of the Beatles and Rap music???...what level playing field do you mean???... everybody mouths the words like the child mimicking what Daddy says without any comprehension at all...
So if you think it's fair that american buisness's and workforce has to compete with slave labor sweat shops we are ignorant ????? The playing field is unlevel and the Chinese Government is manipulating there currency on top of allowing it's large population to be exploited since they lack morale values. Yao Ming the 7'6 Center for the Houston Rockets, has helped the Chinese populus look at Americans differently and more positive. If our corporations had any morale character instead of constant greed we might beable to avoid WWIII with them.
There can never be a level playing field until we are reduced to subsistence level or the Chinese all need Escalades...and no, if they already make their own shirts, I hardly think we can compete by selling them our shirts...the concept of level playing field, which started in the 1980s with the onslaught of Honda and Toyota, has been, and always will be, childish thinking and a fairy tale to rival Peter Pan...sorry...
I'm sorry you feel that there is no hope to demand U.S. corporations to adhere to Human Right laws, Child labor laws, Enviromental Laws. It's people like you who are willing to buy these cheap slave labor goods without regard to who's arm was cut off making it. This mentality has allowed Big Corporations both domestic and foreign to harm your fellow human being. I think it's racist to overlook the treatment of the Chinese, and allow them to be treated like lab animals. We as a society are supporting legalized slavery. You would think history would of taught us a lesson ? It is year 2006 and we as a country due to our personal greed of wanting a $9 dollar shirt aren't willing to pay a little extra to perhaps save a childs life ? I am willing to pay a bunch more for my products, and will continue to support the struggling buisness's in this country and other developed Free country's. These buisness's are patriots of mankind. :shades:
So yes I guess I still believe in Peter Pan and Santa Claus.....I do feel Sorry for you.... :sick:
Oh, the "level playing field" crap...someone needs to get past third grade and stop saying stupid phrases with meaningless words...China, Japan, and SE Asia hardly need Suburbans, Escalades, Crown Vics, Excursions and other vehicles that take up probably both lanes of their tiny roads... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nobody is saying that at all. A "level playing field" simply means fair trade practices. There is a huge demand for US goods abroad, but by the time they get to consumer level, they are way too expensive for the natives to buy. If we used the same artifical means as China to keep Chinese, Japanese, and Korean cars out, I bet a Camry would cost $100,000.
American cars are kept artificially expensive to manufacture, and that hurts us abroad too.
I think it's ridiculous and shortsightedness such as your above comment that inspires people to overlook what is wrong with globalaization. It's one thing if American corporations went over to foreign country's to provide good jobs with good benefits, but to go over to chain children to a machine to sew you $200 pair of Nike AirMax basketball shoes is saying to the rest of the world we feel it's okay to support slavery. If they paid them a decent wage instead of exploiting the population, we just might beable to make China a friend instead of a potential enemy. They might then beable to afford american good like the Europeans and Canadians. However you like you said like your $9 dollar Walley World shirts and love supporting American Slave labor shops in China.
Everyone gets hung up on the pay rates for people in developing countries like China. That's because we compare their pay levels to our own. Yes, there is a huge difference. But that is not relevant to the worker in China. What is relevant to the Chinese worker is how his or her pay compares to the average pay in the community where he or she lives. If the prevailing rate in an area is $2 a day and Company X builds a brand new ultramodern factory and sets its pay rate at $3 a day, people will be coming from all over to apply for jobs. The company gets to pick only the best applicants and the lucky hires get a job that pays 50% more than the prevailing rate. To us it appears that the person who just got hired for $3 a day is still working for peanuts, but to that worker that extra money is going to translate into a better standard of living. That worker is going to be able to buy more goods. Increased demand for goods leadds to the need for manufacturing capacity, which means more factories, which means the need to hire more workers, which means better pay, and the cycle continues.
Many many years ago our pay rates were comparable to the current rates in China. As our economy grew and our nation prospered, our wages AND our cost of living increased. The same will happen in China. The thing to remember is that China's economy is not at the same stage of development as our own; China's is many many years behind us.
As China's economy grows and wages grow with it, Chinese companies in the future will begin to look for ways to reduce headcount in order to reduce manufacturing costs. It's a natural part of business and economic evolution. It's called survival of the fittest. No economy now or in the future is or will be immune from it.
that Rockylee thinks that US laws are relevant in other nations...they are not...deal with it...for Chinese workers to get $2/hour is probably more than they can make doing anything else...
About that child labor crap...I was working with my father in his auto business since I was 7 years old...no, nothing complex, but I was seeing and learning the value of work at a young age...for poor families, the children have to work anyway, and maybe that $$$ they earn is waht allows the family to eat...
It is not our job to worry about their working standards, because they live differently than we do...we are the ones buying the DVDs, VCRs, PDAs, with what we call disposable income...they are lucky to have enough to eat...if the working child means they can eat, they are better off...
Not everybody in the world can place their children in Montessori Day Care, so get over it...our laws apply to us, and it is about time you stopped worrying about what they do with their children...truthfully, while your sentiments are sweet, what they do with their children is truly none of your business...
So, if you want to post about Utopia, feel free to do so...but, after all is said and done, your thoughts will go nowhere, because you are sticking your nose where it does not deserve to be...I suggest you go over THERE and protest about children working...I would be surprised to see if they let you live...
Remember, economics are not equal in all nations...we just have it better than everyone else...but we cannot ram our standards and desires down other nation's throats...
Besides, I am worried about what China does with its military, not what it does with its children...
That many of the "lower skilled" jobs that used to still pay a living wage are being shipped overseas. There are a LOT of people in this country who are second and third generation shirt makers who no longer have jobs. I'm starting to develope a much more patriotic attitude. I'm starting to notice how many of the products I buy are made in China now. It's starting to alarm me.
I must agree...it would be nice to buy stuff made in America...while everyone wants US workers to make a living wage, if a shirtmaker can cut costs by having the work done in China or Mexico, can you blame them???...plus, if they had to pay shirtworkers $15/hr instead of $2/hr, the cost of your shirt would skyrocket...I am quite sure you would complain of the cost of clothing is US labor rates had to be paid...
The real problem, elitist as it may sound, is that the US market for UNSKILLED workers is evaporating...skilled workers are harder to replace...but for those who dropped out of high school, can barely read or write, they will become the underclass...we have to adapt to the new market, and the new market means that the 10th grade dropout who could make $35/hr at GM by doing repetitive, mindless, assembly work is gone...no longer can this society afford to have an uneducated unskilled workforce...it also means that those who do not have the brains to complete high school and advance to college or trade school will be left behind...in the long run, society may be better off, but in the short run, it will be stressful, because all those uneducated caught in the middle will be unemployable...
Jobs like doctor, lawyer, plumber, electrician, carpenter, welder, will always be here and cannot be moved offshore...
But, what you see is that anything that a machine can do to replace an uneducated worker will be done by the machine...so anything that requires monotonous assembly, like cars, shirts, pants, toys, TVs, electronics will be moved offshore, because it isn't worth paying $1/hour for a human to do it, when the machine does not need holidays, days off, makes no workers comp claims, does not show up drunk on Monday morn, does not leave work early on payday (why do you think the old joke about not buying a car made on Mon or Fri has stood for so long???...because UAW workers show up drunk on Mon and leave early Fri, while YOUR car is moving down the assembly line...quite frankly, the unions did it to themselves, and they are simply reaping the result of the seeds they have sown for 40 years...it's a miracle they have maintained their employment as long as they have...if I ran Ford or GM, I would have told the union to go to h**l and moved ALL production offshore...quality is Job One...HA!!!..saving their overpaid jobs is Job One, and it's too late to save them)...so machines will eventually take over all of the repetitive jobs, meaning that if our work force does not transition into the arena of the skilled, then we will have many starving people...
Because over the last century we have always had menial work for the unskilled and uneducated, high school dropouts always could find decent work and support a family...as the world economy changes, sadly, our people will just have to become better people, with better education and better skills...not because I say so, because there is no other way...
For the person who thinks they can drop out and find any work over minimum wage, they just may hit a brick wall...
OTOH, we have more trade schools, community colleges, 4 year colleges, scholarship programs, student loan programs, for anyone to avail themselves...for the person who stays a 10th grade dropout, they deserve what they get, because they are not smart enough or mature enough to earn more or to have a family...
the American name brand cars have turned into garbage for the most part, just look at the number of recalls, TSB's and suits for mechanical/electrical/safety problems with american brands. I have seen a brand new GMC have the axle shaft snap and come out of the rear axle, the rear tire and about 2 feet of axle shaft went flying into oncoming traffic. I have seen a 2004 Dodge durango have the axle snap at the yolk (vehicle was used by a day care city driving only). in the years I delivered auto parts for a parts store I have seen what cheap junk the dealers use in their vehicles. when you can bend a suspension link with your bare hands then the company is using substandard parts.
Exactly. He also failed to mention that the shear cost of buying a education and writing your own ticket will cost you upwards of $100,000. I have many friends that have a masters degree I work with, but can't justify leaving their job to go make half. Most of the good paying jobs like engineering, want to hire employees with 10-15 years expierence in that discipline. So that means they will have to work for "half" of what they make now for over a decade. Granted this might work for a single twenty year old, but for someone in there late thirties or early fourty's this isn't feasible. We can preach education, education, education, but as time goes on we are making the cost of that golden utopia so expensive that your average Joe Schmoe can't afford it. The rich kids can. BTW- our leader cut pell grants, and other "retraining" grants once again while still speaking education like a hallow drum. :confuse:
So much for education eh ? OTOH- how many employers today will front the upfront money for it's employees to go get a education ? From my expierence it's very few. I wanted to go to trades school when I worked for Johnson Controls. They told me due to cut backs I wouldn't be allowed to go. However during corporate quarter reports our bosses would tell us to take advantage of going to college. :mad:
...I just found out that my girlfriend's older brother has a serious thyroid condition, needs expensive medication to control it, and is without health insurance. A few years ago he was a computer programmer/network administrator for a major Philadelphia bank. He is now living in Tampa, FL working as a telemarketer as he had since been replaced by one of those (unwanted) guest workers. Her bro did go back to school to upgrade his skill set but to no avail. All he could get was a few temp jobs here and there. I guess the new definition of IT = "indigent temp."
but lemko our economy is robust and vibrant. I suppose your girlfriends brother didn't want that computer programmer/network admin. job, thus a guestworker was more appropriate because your g/f's brother felt the job was below him. :sick:
I am originally from Flint, Michigan - the home of General Motors. I grew up there when times were good. General Motors and the UAW created a standard of living for average working people and their families that was the envy of the world. The products that the people of that region designed,engineered and built were also considered to be the best the world had to offer. Unfortunately, those days - and those times - came to an end. I don't have to go into the reasons why things are so bad for both GM and Flint these days. Just let it be said that I buy and drive what I want to, as is my right in this country. Just because my car is built by one of the big three doesn't mean if my neighbor wants a new Honda he should be castigated for it. Free enterprise gives every company the right to build a better product and reap the rewards - or not.
Actually in Western Michigan it was General Electric that had the "Gold Standard" of pay and benefits for average working people. GM had a hard time finding people back in the 60's and 70's because the pay wasn't as good. Boy how things have changed.
We will have to agree to see things differently...you seem to refuse to take responsibility for your own life (my employer would not pay for my education), whereas I took out student loans and am paying them off...you are whining because someone else would not invest in you, so you will not get it until someone else offers you a "benefit"...
You would make a good factory worker, and a great union member, since they need people who are easily led and unable or unwilling to take their own bull by the horns...
I wish you well, but you seem unable to adapt to the changing world, where personal initiative will be required...best of luck to you...
I am confident I will have a decent life because of my union contract, and my company, and my government, willing to invest in me to keep me proficient in the skills neccessary to do my job at the highest level. :shades:
GM and Ford just announced closing plants in the Atlanta area. How can they slap those workers in the face like that. On the other hand, Honda and Kia just announced new Georgia plant locations. I think the Unions need to take a look at what they are doing to themselves. If Honda and Kia can afford to build cars in the U.S. profitably, why can't the big 3?
Your answer is easy. They actually design cars people want to buy in large volumes. GM might build a car like the Saab 9-7X, and sell under 900 for the year. :sick:
The unions don't design the cars, engineer them, or market them. They unfortunately don't even sell them, like some of the horrible dealerships that give a bad reputation to the brand.
Slap in the face???...hardly...they cannot afford to keep open plants that allow them to make more cars than they can sell...it is finally an acknowledgement by Ford and GM that they have the capacity to make millions more cars than folks are willing to buy...they have the capacity to make cars like in the 60s and 70s when the Big 3 probably had 90% of the US market...GM now bounces between 25-27%, and Ford is between 16-18%, less than 50% between them...they should have closed plants 10-20 years ago, but poor planning and union demands brought them where they are today...we can only hope that it is not too late, and that GM/Ford wake up and slash the number to get down to fighting weight...no more featherbedding, no more "sit on your duff and get paid for doing nothing" jobs bank (welfare without the stigma, as they actually think they earned it for doing nothing)...
GM/Ford need to cut the work force by 50%, get rid of the deadwood, and start making worthwhile cars again...but I doubt they will...
The simple reason that Kia will open while the others close is that they will not let the union within 100 miles of the plant...here in GA, the general rule is "employment at will"...you do shoddy work, you are fired...no notice, no nothing...unemployment is meager (makes one actually get up and seek employment, unlike Michigan where they live on unemployment for 9 months and then start seeking a job...again, welfare without the stigma, as they are brainwashed that they "earned it")...
We are watching the slow death of the union movement in the US...once it is dead and buried, the general quality of workmanship will probably skyrocket, as workers will forfeit their jobs if they continue with the crap they pull in the UAW...we can only hope it happens quickly, so the "union welfare mentality" also will die a quick death, and we can read about it in the history books...
You're so right. A company should have the right to let go of any worker that doesn't do his job, just like a worker has the right to quit any company that is not in his best interest. Any person is responsible to make himself or herself valuable enough, through education, hard work, creativity, dependability, etc. so that the company will actually value him/her and want to hold on to that worker, union or not. Products stemming from such a company will be valuable, well made products and will be in demand, which will expand the company and result in more being employed and older employees getting a raise not because a union demands it, but because it is in the company's best interest to hold on to that employee. This creates a sort of upward spiral in which everyone wins. But to demand that a company continue to hire a non-productive worker is like demanding a worker to continue with a company regardless of how the company treats him--both are forms of slavery if you ask me.
Just because my car is built by one of the big three doesn't mean if my neighbor wants a new Honda he should be castigated for it.
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I don't own a GM or Ford product, but I certainly wish they made something I could buy. GM and Ford are my 2 favorite car companies in the entire world, but unfortunately, their cars barely break into my top 10 list. I wait for their new cars every year. Sometimes they tantalize me with a new car, but a closer look always reveals a deal killer of 1 kind or another.
Why is it the illegals who committed a crime in crossing the border have politians and the media wanting being here to NOT be a crime. It's a crime to be in Mexico illegally; but not supposed to be a crime for illegals to be here illegally! And our government which has been lax in enforcement for decades wants to make them citizens--maybe just in time to vote in 08?
Duh on the media who are pushing for laxity in this. Maybe if more illegals were aspiring journalists and TV anchors and newswriters and so on the media wouldn't welcome them.
I think you missed my point...GM is building a new plant in Mexico while they are closing them here. If they have soo much overcapacity, why are they building new plants next door.
They're trying to play both sides. They say "Buy American" all the time, but at the same time they know that they have to get costs down to stay competitive in this very global industry.
They should say "Buy Mexican, as long as it's GM".
It is my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) that they are opening fewer plants in Mexico than they are closing here...meaning, they may close 10 plants here, but open only a few in Mexico, thereby still reducing overall production capacity...add to that what bobad said, they are seriously reducing union capacity here, and re-opening with nonunion elsewhere...
No matter how you look at it, the unions did this to themselves...no matter how greedy you think management may be (and I do not condone mgmt greed), they amount to a few dollars compared to their bloated payrolls of hundreds of thousands of workers...the unions had their golden era, where everything they wanted was granted...it is now like a standard bell curve, and they are on the right side down slope...it is going to get ugly, very quickly and very soon and very severely...
Those offered buyouts of $35K-140K are coming soon, if not now...they are about to shed thousands of workers that they have not needed for over a decade...jobs bank no more, go pound the pavement and find some honest work...the range of the buyout is because the $35K (severance of 6 months salary) will be cheap to GM, getting rid of union deadwood, and the $$$ paid out will be regained in less than a year via payroll reductions...don't know if it will work, but it is the smartest thing to do, as they have enough workers to make double their market share...
The $140K will still help, because it is coupled with a permanent severance from retiree Blue Cross...no more health insurance whatsoever...considering that GM probably pays about $5-8K per family to the Blues, and, up to now, no worker or retiree contribution whatsoever, they will see that payback over time, as their health costs will severely drop simply because the workers are no longer insured, so GM will not be subject to escalating premiums anymore...make those who are left pay a major protion of their premium out of their paycheck, and maybe GM could be profitable on half of what they used to sell...
Unions are dying a slow death, and we need to do whatever we can to accelerate the process, and bring the workers back into the real world...and keep whatever auto industry we can keep...
UAW leadership knows what must be done - leadership can't be that clueless - but they have to sell it to their members.
Unfortunately, for years UAW leadership had a vested interest in sowing distrust between management and workers (granted, management made it easier through their own boneheaded actions), but now that management isn't crying wolf, the union will find it very hard to sell "givebacks" to the rank-and-file.
The 2007 contract negotiations are not going to be much fun, but I don't see how either GM or Ford can survive without huge concessions from the UAW.
Japanese automakers overtook US car giant General Motors in North American car and truck production in 2005 and all signs point to Asian dominance of the industry soon, a report showed.
Faced with growing losses in market share, GM reduced its production in the region to 4.6 million vehicles in 2005 while Japanese automakers boosted their assembly plant output in the region by 12 percent to 4.8 million cars and light trucks last year.
It is the first time on record Japanese car and truck manufacturers have surpassed the biggest of the so-called Big Three US automakers in North America, according to the report by Scotia Economics.
Meanwhile, a significant shift is underway globally that will make Asia -- already the world's largest vehicle-producing region -- the big winner as its share of global manufacturing capacity increases to an estimated 37 percent by the end of the decade, up from 34 percent in 2004, said Scotia Economics car analyst and report author Carlos Gomes.
"Despite rising North American vehicle output by foreign automakers, the region is losing its global dominance in vehicle assemblies," he said.
By late 2008 -- once GM and Ford's restructurings are complete -- North American assembly capacity will decline to an estimated 17 million units from the current 18 million, he said.
"At that point, North America will represent less than 20 percent of world capacity, down from 25 percent of output in 2005, and more than 30 percent as recently as the turn of the century."
Japanese manufacturers first started to produce vehicles in North America in 1985. General Motors assembled 7.4 million cars and trucks then, 6.8 million more than offshore manufacturers with assembly plants in the region.
In recent months, both GM and Ford have announced plans to close several facilities and eliminate about 2.4 million units of North American capacity through 2008.
"Once these restructuring initiatives are complete, North American capacity for the 'traditional' Big Three will likely drop below 10 million units, down from over 12.5 million in 2005," Gomes said.
In contrast, Japanese automakers have signaled plans to further expand their North American facilities.
Scotia Economics estimates that the assembly capacity of offshore manufacturers will climb by nearly 40 percent through 2008, lifting Asian and European assembly capacity to roughly 7.3 million units here.
While all three major Japanese car makers are expanding their North American capabilities, Toyota is the "most aggressive," according to the report.
Its facilities operated at 117 percent of normal capacity last year and it plans to boost its current 1.1 million capacity to 1.81 million units by 2008, Gomes said.
Toyota is building a new light truck plant in San Antonio, Texas and will add a new facility in Woodstock, Ontario. The new Canadian plant will ramp up production in 2008, and will have the capacity to produce 150,000 RAV4 crossover utility vehicles, Gomes said.
Korean automakers are also racing to catch up. Hyundai began production at its new facility in Montgomery, Alabama last year, and Kia Motors will follow in 2009.
grbeck, Agree pal. The Rank and File are afraid that if Wagoner, Bill Ford, and Uncle Dieter, get enough out of them they will pay themselves handsome bonuses. American airlines CEO did this to the union. :confuse: There is a huge distrust by the union for management. I think the best approach Wagoner, could do is promise to make it up to the members later in the form of bonuses. Bill Sr. asked for concessions from the UAW back in the 90's and Bill Sr. made it up to the UAW during the good years.
Comments
But ... let's see what happens when it's $15,000 for a Chevy Cobalt vs. $5,000 grand for a Geely Copycat or Cherry Cheapmobile.
-juice
Rocky
I found it funny that Dodge painted some PT Cruisers in the colors of the American flag, since it's made in Mexico. LOL
-juice
Rocky
-juice
I'm not saying the import-export stream between us and China is balanced. Far from it, as seen by our balance of trade deficit with them. But if we take action against their products, we need to recognize that they will take similar action against us. We can accomplish more working with them than we can against them.
The other alternative is for us to place a tariff on the goods coming in to the US...but tariffs just make it cost more to us, so we are now preventing our own consumers from taking advantage of lower prices...so, to play politics for a moment, all those poor and semi-poor folks who now buy their wardrobes at WalMart, will be forced to buy only 1/4 as much, because the tariffs will make the price of a $9 shirt jump to $25/30 or so...they now buy fewer shirts, and have we really created any jobs here at home???...if the shirts cost too much, even if we made them here they would only buy an occasional shirt, so American employment does not get helped...with fewer sales the folks who work at Walmart now lose jobs, so you don't help them at all...all the tariffs will do is reduce the overall level of sales and jobs here, and, as an added bonus, create unemployment in China...
Now I could care less about unemployment in China, but if we get hurt in the process, what good does that do???
Oh, the "level playing field" crap...someone needs to get past third grade and stop saying stupid phrases with meaningless words...China, Japan, and SE Asia hardly need Suburbans, Escalades, Crown Vics, Excursions and other vehicles that take up probably both lanes of their tiny roads...plus, their gas costs are probably higher than ours...we are a consumer society because we have the disposable income to spend on things other than the barest necessities...many things we have here are simply luxuries in the rest of the world...do they need our colognes and after shaves, considering that most Asians hardly have facial hair???...do they need CDs of the Beatles and Rap music???...what level playing field do you mean???... everybody mouths the words like the child mimicking what Daddy says without any comprehension at all...
There can never be a level playing field until we are reduced to subsistence level or the Chinese all need Escalades...and no, if they already make their own shirts, I hardly think we can compete by selling them our shirts...the concept of level playing field, which started in the 1980s with the onslaught of Honda and Toyota, has been, and always will be, childish thinking and a fairy tale to rival Peter Pan...sorry...
I think it's ridiculous and shortsightedness such as your above comment that inspires people to overlook what is wrong with globalaization. It's one thing if American corporations went over to foreign country's to provide good jobs with good benefits, but to go over to chain children to a machine to sew you $200 pair of Nike AirMax basketball shoes is saying to the rest of the world we feel it's okay to support slavery.
Now I could care less about unemployment in China, but if we get hurt in the process, what good does that do???
I do support employing Chinese workers if it's going to have a positive affect on the people. Chaining children to a machine is puts a negative affect in the populus and don't think this happens. I've seen the Video's where Children are baught and sold as slaves to Corporation such as Nike. Children are used and abused for sex. I'm sorry I have morales and faith, and feel the big man upstairs will seek punishment for all of are corporate wrong doers. :mad:
Oh, the "level playing field" crap...someone needs to get past third grade and stop saying stupid phrases with meaningless words...China, Japan, and SE Asia hardly need Suburbans, Escalades, Crown Vics, Excursions and other vehicles that take up probably both lanes of their tiny roads...plus, their gas costs are probably higher than ours...we are a consumer society because we have the disposable income to spend on things other than the barest necessities...many things we have here are simply luxuries in the rest of the world...do they need our colognes and after shaves, considering that most Asians hardly have facial hair???...do they need CDs of the Beatles and Rap music???...what level playing field do you mean???... everybody mouths the words like the child mimicking what Daddy says without any comprehension at all...
So if you think it's fair that american buisness's and workforce has to compete with slave labor sweat shops we are ignorant ????? The playing field is unlevel and the Chinese Government is manipulating there currency on top of allowing it's large population to be exploited since they lack morale values. Yao Ming the 7'6 Center for the Houston Rockets, has helped the Chinese populus look at Americans differently and more positive. If our corporations had any morale character instead of constant greed we might beable to avoid WWIII with them.
There can never be a level playing field until we are reduced to subsistence level or the Chinese all need Escalades...and no, if they already make their own shirts, I hardly think we can compete by selling them our shirts...the concept of level playing field, which started in the 1980s with the onslaught of Honda and Toyota, has been, and always will be, childish thinking and a fairy tale to rival Peter Pan...sorry...
I'm sorry you feel that there is no hope to demand U.S. corporations to adhere to Human Right laws, Child labor laws, Enviromental Laws. It's people like you who are willing to buy these cheap slave labor goods without regard to who's arm was cut off making it. This mentality has allowed Big Corporations both domestic and foreign to harm your fellow human being. I think it's racist to overlook the treatment of the Chinese, and allow them to be treated like lab animals. We as a society are supporting legalized slavery. You would think history would of taught us a lesson ?
So yes I guess I still believe in Peter Pan and Santa Claus.....I do feel Sorry for you.... :sick:
Rocky
Oh, the "level playing field" crap...someone needs to get past third grade and stop saying stupid phrases with meaningless words...China, Japan, and SE Asia hardly need Suburbans, Escalades, Crown Vics, Excursions and other vehicles that take up probably both lanes of their tiny roads...
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Nobody is saying that at all. A "level playing field" simply means fair trade practices. There is a huge demand for US goods abroad, but by the time they get to consumer level, they are way too expensive for the natives to buy. If we used the same artifical means as China to keep Chinese, Japanese, and Korean cars out, I bet a Camry would cost $100,000.
American cars are kept artificially expensive to manufacture, and that hurts us abroad too.
Everyone gets hung up on the pay rates for people in developing countries like China. That's because we compare their pay levels to our own. Yes, there is a huge difference. But that is not relevant to the worker in China. What is relevant to the Chinese worker is how his or her pay compares to the average pay in the community where he or she lives. If the prevailing rate in an area is $2 a day and Company X builds a brand new ultramodern factory and sets its pay rate at $3 a day, people will be coming from all over to apply for jobs. The company gets to pick only the best applicants and the lucky hires get a job that pays 50% more than the prevailing rate. To us it appears that the person who just got hired for $3 a day is still working for peanuts, but to that worker that extra money is going to translate into a better standard of living. That worker is going to be able to buy more goods. Increased demand for goods leadds to the need for manufacturing capacity, which means more factories, which means the need to hire more workers, which means better pay, and the cycle continues.
Many many years ago our pay rates were comparable to the current rates in China. As our economy grew and our nation prospered, our wages AND our cost of living increased. The same will happen in China. The thing to remember is that China's economy is not at the same stage of development as our own; China's is many many years behind us.
As China's economy grows and wages grow with it, Chinese companies in the future will begin to look for ways to reduce headcount in order to reduce manufacturing costs. It's a natural part of business and economic evolution. It's called survival of the fittest. No economy now or in the future is or will be immune from it.
About that child labor crap...I was working with my father in his auto business since I was 7 years old...no, nothing complex, but I was seeing and learning the value of work at a young age...for poor families, the children have to work anyway, and maybe that $$$ they earn is waht allows the family to eat...
It is not our job to worry about their working standards, because they live differently than we do...we are the ones buying the DVDs, VCRs, PDAs, with what we call disposable income...they are lucky to have enough to eat...if the working child means they can eat, they are better off...
Not everybody in the world can place their children in Montessori Day Care, so get over it...our laws apply to us, and it is about time you stopped worrying about what they do with their children...truthfully, while your sentiments are sweet, what they do with their children is truly none of your business...
So, if you want to post about Utopia, feel free to do so...but, after all is said and done, your thoughts will go nowhere, because you are sticking your nose where it does not deserve to be...I suggest you go over THERE and protest about children working...I would be surprised to see if they let you live...
Remember, economics are not equal in all nations...we just have it better than everyone else...but we cannot ram our standards and desires down other nation's throats...
Besides, I am worried about what China does with its military, not what it does with its children...
The real problem, elitist as it may sound, is that the US market for UNSKILLED workers is evaporating...skilled workers are harder to replace...but for those who dropped out of high school, can barely read or write, they will become the underclass...we have to adapt to the new market, and the new market means that the 10th grade dropout who could make $35/hr at GM by doing repetitive, mindless, assembly work is gone...no longer can this society afford to have an uneducated unskilled workforce...it also means that those who do not have the brains to complete high school and advance to college or trade school will be left behind...in the long run, society may be better off, but in the short run, it will be stressful, because all those uneducated caught in the middle will be unemployable...
Jobs like doctor, lawyer, plumber, electrician, carpenter, welder, will always be here and cannot be moved offshore...
But, what you see is that anything that a machine can do to replace an uneducated worker will be done by the machine...so anything that requires monotonous assembly, like cars, shirts, pants, toys, TVs, electronics will be moved offshore, because it isn't worth paying $1/hour for a human to do it, when the machine does not need holidays, days off, makes no workers comp claims, does not show up drunk on Monday morn, does not leave work early on payday (why do you think the old joke about not buying a car made on Mon or Fri has stood for so long???...because UAW workers show up drunk on Mon and leave early Fri, while YOUR car is moving down the assembly line...quite frankly, the unions did it to themselves, and they are simply reaping the result of the seeds they have sown for 40 years...it's a miracle they have maintained their employment as long as they have...if I ran Ford or GM, I would have told the union to go to h**l and moved ALL production offshore...quality is Job One...HA!!!..saving their overpaid jobs is Job One, and it's too late to save them)...so machines will eventually take over all of the repetitive jobs, meaning that if our work force does not transition into the arena of the skilled, then we will have many starving people...
Because over the last century we have always had menial work for the unskilled and uneducated, high school dropouts always could find decent work and support a family...as the world economy changes, sadly, our people will just have to become better people, with better education and better skills...not because I say so, because there is no other way...
For the person who thinks they can drop out and find any work over minimum wage, they just may hit a brick wall...
OTOH, we have more trade schools, community colleges, 4 year colleges, scholarship programs, student loan programs, for anyone to avail themselves...for the person who stays a 10th grade dropout, they deserve what they get, because they are not smart enough or mature enough to earn more or to have a family...
I have seen a brand new GMC have the axle shaft snap and come out of the rear axle, the rear tire and about 2 feet of axle shaft went flying into oncoming traffic.
I have seen a 2004 Dodge durango have the axle snap at the yolk (vehicle was used by a day care city driving only).
in the years I delivered auto parts for a parts store I have seen what cheap junk the dealers use in their vehicles.
when you can bend a suspension link with your bare hands then the company is using substandard parts.
True, but employers will probably resort to "guest workers" for these jobs in the near future...
BTW- our leader cut pell grants, and other "retraining" grants once again while still speaking education like a hallow drum. :confuse:
So much for education eh ? OTOH- how many employers today will front the upfront money for it's employees to go get a education ? From my expierence it's very few. I wanted to go to trades school when I worked for Johnson Controls. They told me due to cut backs I wouldn't be allowed to go. However during corporate quarter reports our bosses would tell us to take advantage of going to college. :mad:
Rocky
Tell him to keep his chin up. I feel for him.
Rocky
Boy how things have changed.
Rocky
Rocky
You would make a good factory worker, and a great union member, since they need people who are easily led and unable or unwilling to take their own bull by the horns...
I wish you well, but you seem unable to adapt to the changing world, where personal initiative will be required...best of luck to you...
I am confident I will have a decent life because of my union contract, and my company, and my government, willing to invest in me to keep me proficient in the skills neccessary to do my job at the highest level. :shades:
Rocky
The unions don't design the cars, engineer them, or market them. They unfortunately don't even sell them, like some of the horrible dealerships that give a bad reputation to the brand.
Rocky
GM/Ford need to cut the work force by 50%, get rid of the deadwood, and start making worthwhile cars again...but I doubt they will...
The simple reason that Kia will open while the others close is that they will not let the union within 100 miles of the plant...here in GA, the general rule is "employment at will"...you do shoddy work, you are fired...no notice, no nothing...unemployment is meager (makes one actually get up and seek employment, unlike Michigan where they live on unemployment for 9 months and then start seeking a job...again, welfare without the stigma, as they are brainwashed that they "earned it")...
We are watching the slow death of the union movement in the US...once it is dead and buried, the general quality of workmanship will probably skyrocket, as workers will forfeit their jobs if they continue with the crap they pull in the UAW...we can only hope it happens quickly, so the "union welfare mentality" also will die a quick death, and we can read about it in the history books...
Strong opinions to follow...
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I don't own a GM or Ford product, but I certainly wish they made something I could buy. GM and Ford are my 2 favorite car companies in the entire world, but unfortunately, their cars barely break into my top 10 list. I wait for their new cars every year. Sometimes they tantalize me with a new car, but a closer look always reveals a deal killer of 1 kind or another.
Why is it the illegals who committed a crime in crossing the border have politians and the media wanting being here to NOT be a crime. It's a crime to be in Mexico illegally; but not supposed to be a crime for illegals to be here illegally! And our government which has been lax in enforcement for decades wants to make them citizens--maybe just in time to vote in 08?
Duh on the media who are pushing for laxity in this. Maybe if more illegals were aspiring journalists and TV anchors and newswriters and so on the media wouldn't welcome them.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
They should say "Buy Mexican, as long as it's GM".
-juice
The 'detroiters' not closing capacity, they are closing union-controlled capacity.
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Exactly. They must compete or die.
I'm not sure if I can handle the grill..... :surprise:
Rocky
No matter how you look at it, the unions did this to themselves...no matter how greedy you think management may be (and I do not condone mgmt greed), they amount to a few dollars compared to their bloated payrolls of hundreds of thousands of workers...the unions had their golden era, where everything they wanted was granted...it is now like a standard bell curve, and they are on the right side down slope...it is going to get ugly, very quickly and very soon and very severely...
Those offered buyouts of $35K-140K are coming soon, if not now...they are about to shed thousands of workers that they have not needed for over a decade...jobs bank no more, go pound the pavement and find some honest work...the range of the buyout is because the $35K (severance of 6 months salary) will be cheap to GM, getting rid of union deadwood, and the $$$ paid out will be regained in less than a year via payroll reductions...don't know if it will work, but it is the smartest thing to do, as they have enough workers to make double their market share...
The $140K will still help, because it is coupled with a permanent severance from retiree Blue Cross...no more health insurance whatsoever...considering that GM probably pays about $5-8K per family to the Blues, and, up to now, no worker or retiree contribution whatsoever, they will see that payback over time, as their health costs will severely drop simply because the workers are no longer insured, so GM will not be subject to escalating premiums anymore...make those who are left pay a major protion of their premium out of their paycheck, and maybe GM could be profitable on half of what they used to sell...
Unions are dying a slow death, and we need to do whatever we can to accelerate the process, and bring the workers back into the real world...and keep whatever auto industry we can keep...
Unfortunately, for years UAW leadership had a vested interest in sowing distrust between management and workers (granted, management made it easier through their own boneheaded actions), but now that management isn't crying wolf, the union will find it very hard to sell "givebacks" to the rank-and-file.
The 2007 contract negotiations are not going to be much fun, but I don't see how either GM or Ford can survive without huge concessions from the UAW.
If it wasn't for big pickup trucks and SUV's, the American makers would be history.
Japanese automakers overtook US car giant General Motors in North American car and truck production in 2005 and all signs point to Asian dominance of the industry soon, a report showed.
Faced with growing losses in market share, GM reduced its production in the region to 4.6 million vehicles in 2005 while Japanese automakers boosted their assembly plant output in the region by 12 percent to 4.8 million cars and light trucks last year.
It is the first time on record Japanese car and truck manufacturers have surpassed the biggest of the so-called Big Three US automakers in North America, according to the report by Scotia Economics.
Meanwhile, a significant shift is underway globally that will make Asia -- already the world's largest vehicle-producing region -- the big winner as its share of global manufacturing capacity increases to an estimated 37 percent by the end of the decade, up from 34 percent in 2004, said Scotia Economics car analyst and report author Carlos Gomes.
"Despite rising North American vehicle output by foreign automakers, the region is losing its global dominance in vehicle assemblies," he said.
By late 2008 -- once GM and Ford's restructurings are complete -- North American assembly capacity will decline to an estimated 17 million units from the current 18 million, he said.
"At that point, North America will represent less than 20 percent of world capacity, down from 25 percent of output in 2005, and more than 30 percent as recently as the turn of the century."
Japanese manufacturers first started to produce vehicles in North America in 1985. General Motors assembled 7.4 million cars and trucks then, 6.8 million more than offshore manufacturers with assembly plants in the region.
In recent months, both GM and Ford have announced plans to close several facilities and eliminate about 2.4 million units of North American capacity through 2008.
"Once these restructuring initiatives are complete, North American capacity for the 'traditional' Big Three will likely drop below 10 million units, down from over 12.5 million in 2005," Gomes said.
In contrast, Japanese automakers have signaled plans to further expand their North American facilities.
Scotia Economics estimates that the assembly capacity of offshore manufacturers will climb by nearly 40 percent through 2008, lifting Asian and European assembly capacity to roughly 7.3 million units here.
While all three major Japanese car makers are expanding their North American capabilities, Toyota is the "most aggressive," according to the report.
Its facilities operated at 117 percent of normal capacity last year and it plans to boost its current 1.1 million capacity to 1.81 million units by 2008, Gomes said.
Toyota is building a new light truck plant in San Antonio, Texas and will add a new facility in Woodstock, Ontario. The new Canadian plant will ramp up production in 2008, and will have the capacity to produce 150,000 RAV4 crossover utility vehicles, Gomes said.
Korean automakers are also racing to catch up. Hyundai began production at its new facility in Montgomery, Alabama last year, and Kia Motors will follow in 2009.
It will be interesting that's for sure.
Rocky