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Comments
-juice
The UAW leadership and rank and file need to read the book "Who Moved My Cheese." The management of GM/F/DCX needs to read the book as well. And then both groups need to take action...together. Unfortunately, I suspect that the message in the book will be overlooked by both groups. You can lead the horse to water but you can't make it drink.
The union and the company management need to realize that they are all on the same ship...the Titanic...and they have been hitting icebergs for years now.
Thomas Klier, a senior economist at the Fed in Chicago, did an in depth study in 2000. He found that, for example:
"Examination of Toyota's tier one suppliers revealed that only 10 percent are within 100 miles of Toyota's three wholly-owned North American assembly operations. However, 76 percent are within a 400-mile radius."
Compared to the NUMMI GM-Toyota joint venture in California:
"only 6 percent of its suppliers were within a 100-mile radius. Only 11 percent were within a 400-mile radius. The rest were located back East in the auto corridor."
Source: http://www.dallasfed.org/research/vista/vista0401.html
For Toyota's new Texas plant, here's a list of suppliers:
http://alamoworksource.org/toyota/suppliers.asp
They're almost all in Texas. I'm sure that there's going to be some parts coming in from Mexico (and cheap Mexican parts is probably a partial reason as to why Toyota picked San Antonio for the new plant), but we're talking a small percentage.
I'm not just trying to tout Toyota here - all manufacturers prefer to have parts shippable, via truck, within a one or two day time period. Vehicle manufacturing is a just-in-time delivery system, and this keeps costs reasonable. Sometimes this isn't always doable. But waiting a week for parts to be shipped from overseas would add a very onerus cost - nobody domestic or foreign does this.
1) My roommate's Mazda - American owned (Ford) but made in Japan
2) My Camry - foreign-owned (Japan) but made in USA
3) My girlfriend's Dodge neon - foreign owned (Germany) but made in USA
4) My boss's BMW - foreign owned (Germany) but made in USA
5) My dad's Buick Regal - American owned (GM) but made in Canada.
6) My sister's Civic - designed, marketed, and assembled all in America.
Sure, you can make points for/against some of these, but how can one disagree that the lines on this topic are completely getting gray in the modern era of globalization?
Rocky
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109910
Rocky
Rocky
It's not a facelift...
It's a facedroop.
The picture apparently didn't work on my page, but you can see it on Rockylee's post that I am replying to.
Rocky
Rocky
Officer: GM management wants us to offer major concessions.
Member: No concessions, no give-backs, nothing!!!
Officer: Well, we won't be seeing you at our next meeting, as your job is about to evaporate...now does anyone else have any bright ideas for any OTHER method of job suicide???
Heh, heh, heh...
So that's they way it's going to go ?
Rocky
Unless the UAW accepts concessions as rammed down their throats, they will find themselves reading about their former jobs in the Blue Oval News...
The only reason GM/Ford have the absoluet upper hand is that they will cease to exist if their overhead is more than they gross...can't change the price of steel or rubber, but (I hate to be repetitive) not only are labor costs variable, but it just is not worth $35/hr to pay someone to put on a wheel and tighten 5 lug nuts...I would be surprised if the intrinsic value is over $1/hour...
Most of the jobs (not all) required to assemble the vehicle are probably barely worth $10/hour because of the mindless repetition, that could almost be performed by a machine...the unskilled workers will be forced by the world economy to develop needed skills or they will spend their lives on welfare...
The writing is on the wall for auto production. It's only a matter of time. 5 yrs? 15 yrs?
But I'm an idiot for believing this, eh ?
Rocky
kdhspyder, I think the writing is on the wall for all manufactoring. It's either adapt to globalization or die. Either way your dead. :sick:
Rocky
We can assemble cars in Mexico because they are, literally, just over the border...it is cheaper to tranport a car from Mexico to anywhere in the South and Southwest than it is from, say, Detroit...
It is my understanding that numerous US steel mills that went bankrupt when they were unionized (US Steel, Bethlehem Steel) were bought out by entrepreneurs, updated with new, computerized equipment, and could make steel better and cheaper than Japan...maybe the mechanization did not require the employ of 1000s of steelworkers, but they did employ a bunch, and showed it can be done here, better and cheaper than it could be done over there...
I also believe that the UAW works under a quota system...they only make so much stuff today, and then the line "slows down" so they only make so much in a day...this is the diametric polar opposite of "productivity"...but, from a UAW standpoint, it DOES keep their jobs...of course, that is why the automakers are sending it out of the country, because the union will not bend, so it becomes "all or nothing"...
And, even if the union changed tomorrow, the rank and file, who have been spoiled all these years, and are not exactly high on the IQ scale, would not change their behavioiur or their mindset, like a spoiled child who pouts when he doesn't get his way...do not put it past the lineworkers to start sabotaging cars in their last year of work before a plant shutdown, because there can be no repercussions as they are losing their jobs anyway...
When all those buyout workers will be working their final six months, woe is the person who buys that product...I would not be surprised to see the highest level of complaints and warranty problems ever seen in the history of the world...
I'll put my UAW father's I.Q. anyday for any amount of money up against your I.Q. pal. I got the greenbacks pal, you show me yours.
Rocky
P.S. you name the price and the place.
But he doesn't think the Arlington plant will close -- particularly with competition from a new Japanese-owned truck plant nearby.
"GM does not want to be kicked out of Texas by Toyota," he says. "They will convert this to a truck plant before that ever happens."
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060409/AUTO01/604090314/- 1148
Have they every published that for their higher-paid executives. You know... the 5th in line will get 1,000,000$ per hour of work life when we include his pay and retirement costs to the company? Those million dollar retirements and healthcare costs for execs really add up fast.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
Ford's compensation: $13.3 million
CEO plans to donate his restricted stock to charity
April 8, 2006
CEO Bill Ford award down 40%.
Related articles:
• 2005 executive compensation
Ford Motor Co. Chairman and CEO Bill Ford, who told shareholders in May that he would not take any salary, bonus and other awards until the company's automotive operations are profitable, received other compensation totaling $13.3 million last year, according to a regulatory filing Friday.
That's down 40% from the $22.2 million that Ford, the great-grandson of company founder Henry Ford, was paid in 2004.
In all, Bill Ford received $5.3 million of restricted stock awards; options to buy 1.69 million shares, which are valued at $7.5 million; and $466,755 in other compensation, such as use of the company's airplanes, the filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission shows.
Part of that compensation was based on Bill Ford's pay for the first quarter of 2005 -- before he declared he would forgo salary, bonus and other awards until the company's automotive operations are profitable -- while another part stems from a performance-based incentive program.
The company has said the CEO plans to donate any final restricted stock award he receives to charity when his stock equivalents convert to shares. The filing Friday estimated that donation at $4.96 million.
Bill Ford's compensation reflects the challenging times that face the Dearborn-based automaker.
Ford made a $2-billion profit last year, but it was not a good year. The company's North American automotive operations lost $1.6 billion, and in 2004, Ford booked a much larger profit of $3.49 billion. Ford is now implementing its Way Forward restructuring plan, which will slash 30,000 jobs and idle 14 plants, to get back on track.
Ford's Friday filing also revealed:
Ford President and Chief Operating Officer Jim Padilla, 59, who said Thursday he will retire July 1, received a compensation package worth nearly $6.8 million in 2005. That included a $1.5-million salary and a performance-based incentive award of restricted stock valued at $1.99 million.
Padilla and fellow longtime board members Carl Reichardt and Marie-Josee Kravis will not stand for re-election at the company's annual meeting May 11 in Wilmington, Del. Consequently, the company's board of directors is expected to reduce the number of directors from 15 to 12 at the meeting.
Mark Fields, an executive vice president and president of Ford's Americas division, received compensation totaling $3.2 million last year. That included a $972,500 salary and a $1-million cash retention payment. Fields, who led the development of Ford's Way Forward restructuring plan and is the heir apparent to Padilla, will have to repay the $1 million if he leaves voluntarily in the next two years.
The filing also says shareholders will vote on a proposal about whether to remove sexual orientation from the company's equal employment policy. Ford's current policy says the automaker won't discriminate on the basis of race, color, religion, age, gender, sexual orientation, national origin, handicap or veteran status.
Ford is recommending that shareholders reject this proposal, saying it would hinder the company's ability to recruit and retain employees. The dispute stems from an ongoing dispute with the American Family Association and other conservative groups, which have declared a boycott against Ford over its commitment to nondiscrimination based on sexual orientation.
imidazol97, Hows this pal ?
Rocky
-juice
Rocky
Rocky
-juice
Some of the latest products coming out of Detroit have been impressive, so recently I tried to go out and buy either a new Corvette, Pontiac Solstice, or Shelby Mustang. To me these all seem like truly wonderful cars, and a reason to shop "American" again. Unfortunately, my experiences with dealers have left me with a very sour taste in my mouth. ALL of the Chevy, Ford, and Pontiac dealers I visited were unbelievably arrogant, enough to turn me off to "American" cars for another 20 years.
Contacted 10 Pontiac dealers - all were arrogant and smug and non-negotiable about demanding $3000-$5000 over sticker. Contacted 9 Ford dealers - only a few were even willing to take a deposit, only to then have to buy the Shelby for whatever they decided "market value" would be (meaning, tens of thousands over sticker). Contacted 21 Chevy dealers through Edmunds.com asking for an e-mail quote on a new Corvette, and got back 1 whole legitimate response. The other 20 all deluged me with phone calls about their "phenomenal pricing", "great deals", "come on in and talk", "what will it take to get you to buy today" games - and no prices.
Detroit is finally building some great cars that people would actually buy. But, either they are not smart enough to make enough supply to meet demand, or the dealers need to climb a few steps up the evolutionary ladder and learn the basics about treating customers with a modicum of respect and courtesy. Instead, as soon as they have a desirable product, they revert to the old arrogant, disgraceful games that drove so many of us to buy Japanese.
Instead of buying an American car, I came home with a new Infiniti G35 Coupe. The experience couldn't have been more pleasant. It was less than 30 minutes from start to finish, the dealer offered the car for 1% over invoice, and it was done. Maybe I'll consider American again in 20 years...
I've had my share of aggressive dealers, but always bought from those who treated me with respect. Our experience with the Chevrolet dealer when girlfriend bought her Impala was very positive as it was with the Buick dealer for the LaCrosse.
I see you were looking at a Corvette. Are you fairly young? My best friend was looking at a 'Vette when he got out of graduate school. The saleslady at the Chevy dealer didn't take him too seriously due to his age and tried to sell him on the mediocre Lumina Z34. A green pea at the shop took my buddy seriously and ended up getting the sale and commission on a new Corvette! When my friend came to pick up the car, the saleslady was like, "Oh I wouldn't own a car like that anyway!" Sour grapes, sister! I told her, "Stop raining on his parade. He's been talking about buying a new Corvette for the last five years."
My brother bought a new pontiac and there was silt in the dash and seats, this shows that the company has no problems screwing over the consumers. A detailed inspection showed that front end parts had been replaced and from what they found the car had been in a flood, carfax came back as a new never titled car, my brother was the first owner, things like this show the ethics of the US auto companies and dealers.
I wouldn't say that this is an indication of the ethics of US auto companies & dealers. I don't disagree with your other points, heck I've got about a grand on my GM card and I can't find anything I like from them worth it.
.
My buddy bought 2 identical Malibus a few years back and the same things broke at about the same age/mileage, so he bought a CRV and it's been the best vehicle he's ever had.
I drive a Ford 500 now, have 50k on it, change the oil, rotate the tires, start the engine and away we go.
I had a Datsun years ago which rusted away one winter. I wonder why they didn't have the courage to stay with the name? I have had other Japanese auto's since, and found no better nor worse than American or German manufactures.When you don't do the recommended maintance you have auto problems.
My wife's previous 2 company cars were Taurus's and while they both provided to be perfectly reliable, they both felt cheap and unrefined. Certainly not cars I'd spend my money on. But, overall the 500 is not a bad car, but it doesn't match the Camry's and Accord's I've driven in terms of fit and finish and refinement. Rear seat room and trunk space are very impressive.
So you're trying to say it's Pontiac's fault that a dealer took a car from a flood area and sold it as a new car when it was a new car?
That kind of dealer is why they invented attorneys.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My brothers car first displayed electrical problems, after a month he took it to a private shop when it quit on the way home, they found that the electrical system had water damage and when they did more digging through the car found silt in the foam and found that the car had had front end repairs, he had a title search done on the VIN and he was the first title holder for that VIN. This is a common thing that they do and not just pontiac, dodge, chevy, ford have all been caught doing this. I go to lots and look for the bondo and body filler they used to hide damage on new cars, the ones where the fender paint finish is not quite a perfect match with the rest of the car and the dealer claims it is a new "undamaged" car. Search the net and you will find articles about this.
Hell dateline even did a special on it a couple years back.
They shipped the car back to where?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
.
The dealer was probably reimbursed by their ins. co. for the damages and then tries to sell it as new.
.
I agree with one of the previous posters. Examples like this are why attorneys were invented......
they have said that they see no problem with the practice as long as the vehicle has been repaired in a approved facility.
also it is illegal in many states to sell a "totaled out vehicle" that has been paid off by an insurance company as a new undamaged vehicle, but they get around it by shipping these vehicles to other states.
In the Dasteline NBC investigation they found that some vehicles had new factory VIN numbers on the dash/door while the firewall number told the true history of the vehicle.
also look at the big news worthy issues that companies where aware of and tried to hide (ford truck/suv rollovers and firestone tires) the list is long.
I do remember when I was looking for a car last time around seeing a car that was brand new, which appeared to me to have overspray in one of the front wheel wells. It looked pretty obvious to me that there'd been some type of repair to the vehicle; all the other cars had black wheel wells, and but this white car had white spray...and only on one side. Now whether it was someone backing into it in the lot and denting a fender, or something worse, I don't know...but I didn't buy from that dealer.
I also have a cousin who is a service manager in a larger city in a neighboring state (hope that's vague enough!!)...they had a hail storm one spring, and there was one vehicle in particular that for some reason got pounded by the hail. They moved it to the back of the lot to await the insurance person to come sort things out, which apparently took several months, leaving the car untouched deep into the summer. When the insurance guy did show up, he went out to look at the car and couldn't find any damage - apparently the heat of the Southern sun had been enough to expand/contract the hail dents and pop them out...so they pulled the car back up to the lot and sold it as a new car.
Both of which just confirm the bad dealer story - as is both of these were "domestic" vehicles, but I'm sure others could find similar stories about import dealers as well.
Rocky
Rocky
If it was Mercedes, I'd get suspicious about fintail :P
If it was a Buick or Cadillac, Lemko might be guilty. :P
A Ford ? Who cares
Rocky
-juice
Rocky