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Will classic design save GM, Ford and Chrysler??



  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    when my Mom gave me her Malibu in January 1987 it had snow tires on it, and also had a pair of regular tires on their own rims that I put on in the spring. I always ran snow tires on that car out of's what my Mom did, grandparents did, etc, so I just did it too.

    When I got my '69 Dart and got rid of the Malibu, I got an extra pair of Dart rims and mounted the tires on that car. I think I used them on my '68, too. Finally though, I was going through a rough financial time in my life, and the regular tires on that Dart needed to be replaced. Instead of buying new tires, I just put the snows on it, even though it was the summer! :blush: I remember one of them blowing out during the summer of '95, at around 50 mph. My stupidity...the danged things WERE at least 8 years old by that time...Oops! :blush:

    Nowadays, the only vehicles of mine that see bad weather on a regular basis are my '00 Intrepid and '85 Silverado. All the others get put up for the winter.

    Are truck tires much different from passenger car tires? For having a light rear-end and being RWD, my Silverado's actually not bad in the snow and ice. I actually don't think it's any worse than the Intrepid, but that's probably just because I'm so used to it.
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    People not going with snow tires as much anymore probably also has something to do with the fact that compared to back in the day when *every* car was RWD, now there are plenty of choices for your drive wheels, as well as plenty of vehicle choices on top of that...

    So whereas in the 1960s if you lived in the Northeast say, you'd have to put snow tires on your rwd station wagon when winter hit, these days you just buy an AWD minivan and be done with it... :confuse:
  • reddogsreddogs Posts: 353
    What is these things you call "snow tires", down here in Sunny Florida, we've never hear of such things, are they from the 'ice age'??........ ;)

    Remember not everyone lives in New York City or the rest of the frozen tundra up north, some of us actually like RWD sports cars (such as the new Mustang or the new Challenger soon to come) as we cruise South Beach drinking our margarita's with the funny little umbrellas. :shades:
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Hey, some of us live in those frozen tundra areas and still drive RWD sportscars! :)

    Anyone can drive a Mustang in the sunbelt...try doing it in a Chicago winter! Now THAT takes a certain amount of, um, er, "dedication"! ;)
  • reddogsreddogs Posts: 353
    and would do well:
    1960 Nash 2-Door Sedan (for the economy crowd)
    1961-2 Chevrolet Corvette (very nice design)
    1963-4 Chevrolet Corvette Sting Ray (beautiful lines)
    1965 Ford 427 Cobra (nice look)
    1966-68 Ford Mustang Fastback (for Mustang lovers)
    1968 Mercury Cougar (bring some style to Mercury)
    1968 Chevrolet Camaro Rally Sport (best year)
    1969 Plymouth Road Runner (maybe name with emblem)
    1969 Chevrolet Chevelle Super Sport 396 (name/style cues)
    1969 Pontiac Firebird 2-Door Convertible (best year)
    1969 Pontiac GTO (the one and only Judge!)
    1970 Dodge Challenger (nice lines)

    These are the best of the sixties IMHO which they could bring back in updated design and get a lot of buyers....... :shades:
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Re the list

    Corvette - interesting to me that the Vette has constantly evolved its design over the years, and has yet to go retro. If it did, I could see it going 1963-ish...

    Mustang - the current one IS a 1966-68 design.

    Road Runner - I've wondered if in a year or two, Chrylser will offer a nose-coned/towelrack spoiler Charger Daytona Superbird as a real limited, "halo" kind of thing. Very few people will buy them, but they're cause a stir whereever they show up. :)

    GM - Odd that GM has yet to retro any of their classics. They certainly should...with the babyboomers about to retire, this is GM's last chance to mine that generation's nostalgia... :confuse:
  • reddogsreddogs Posts: 353
    I love the 63-64 Corvette's not so much the 65-66 as they have a slightly different look, cant put my finger on it...

    Current Mustang - seems to me the current one IS more of a 1969-70 design with the lights in the grill and some Shelby like extras. Maybe some of the MUSTANG afficionado's can help us....... :surprise:
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    I think maybe a late '50s - early '60s Vette design might fare well. I love the quad headlight treatment, and could see it translating well today.

    As for the current Mustang, the body itself is mainly 1968 inspired, with the headlights (on the GT) and the quarter windows being pure 1967 Shelby (originally, anyway).

    Interestingly, both Shelby touches were originally Shelby's modifications of things that were less-than-successful on his orginal 1966 Shelby Mustangs. The 1966 had the inboard headlights together in the middle of the grill (DOT said nope, and anyway they blocked air to the radiator), and there were no quarter windows (buyers complained about the blind spots).

    The badging on trunk of the current gen Mustang is similar to the 1969's (a gear-like motiff) though. But yeah, there's not too much difference between the 1968s and the 1969s. Though the 1969s did sport a huge non-functional hood scoop and side scoops as standard, which is similar to the 2001-2004 models. :confuse:
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    I'd say it most likely apes the 1969 with the front-end. The 70, while the same basic design, reverted back to single headlights, mounted fairly close together inside the grille, with two horizontal slashes outboard where the outer lights would've been on the '69.

    The roofline is more '64.5-68, though, although I don't think any Mustang ever had big triangular quarter windows in the back. All the ones I've seen had louvers. The '69-70 fastback was actually styled to look like a hardtop, although the little quarter windows didn't roll down..they just flipped out.
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    I believe the triangle quarter windows were Shelby-only in 1967...I'm not a fan myself, preferring my '02s smaller and right-up-against-the-side-windows style.

    Guy down the street has an '06 V6 Mustang with added louvers on the quarter windows. He also has the "Pony package" which gives one a good looking replica of the 1967 grill ("corraled" pony with horizontal bars connected to two smaller lights). Also has the shelby over-body striping though, which is a bit much for a V6 I think, but to each his own.

    I love the 1970 Mustang look, with the "missing" outboard lamps. :)
  • reddogsreddogs Posts: 353
    If I remember right, Bill Ford said it was based on what he drove in his youth and it was a 1969 Mustang and the design team added the Shelby and other touches, I'm trying to find the quote....anyway here's a 1969 to compare...
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Interesting re the Bill Ford quote...that is pretty cool. Unfortunately, I can't view the link (stupid office filtering software).

    Could well be the 1969 he had in mind...there's not too much difference overall other than a few inches added in front between the '68 and '69.

    But the little details seem to place the current design closer to the 1968. Maybe that's what his team was thinking, as you mention...

    - Current Mustang has a center grill pony emblem like the '68, not the offset pony-and-bars of the '69.
    - Current Mustang doesn't have the 1969s high, window-sill level side scoops, but rather lower indentations like the pre-1969s.
    - Current Mustang GT is missing the 1969 GT's most promient feature...the non functional hood scoop.

    Of course, the outboard headlight bezels on the current 'Stang have the ridges like the 1965s, so who knows? :)
  • reddogsreddogs Posts: 353
    .....the styling could do for the other Big 3 sales what the Mustang is doing at Ford.

    The 1961-2 Chevrolet Corvette actually has some 1956 T-Bird looks so may not be a good choice..
    The 1963-4 Chevrolet Corvette Sting Ray would do very well especially if it was done a lower price level.
    The 1965 Ford 427 Cobra would be great as a Miata size retro and would sell and attract nicely.
    The 1968 Mercury Cougar would definitely help Liconln-Mercury bring in some buyers into the lots.
    The 1968 Chevrolet Camaro Rally Sport and 1969 Chevrolet Chevelle Super Sport 396 would be a crowd pleaser.
    The 1969 Pontiac Firebird 2-Door Convertible and 1969 Pontiac GTO (Judge Version) would do well.
    The 1969 Plymouth Road Runner, 1970 Dodge Challenger and 1970 PLYMOUTH CUDA would really bring in lookers if not buyers........
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Cobra, you say? ;)

    Ford put out a really cool video showing the new Mustang and Ford GT running through a city, and added some clearly cgi-ed shots of a Ford Cobra concept to it.

    Here's what Ford has to say about the car:
    link title
  • reddogsreddogs Posts: 353
    "GM rolls out Chevrolet Camaro concept!"
    "Muscular-looking car modeled after 1969 classic." l

    "Now the ghosts are revving their engines. Yesterday, the Dodge Challenger, in modern concept-car form, was unveiled at the Detroit Auto Show. Today, it was the Camaro."

    I liked the 1968 better, but I'll go with the 1969... :D
  • navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080 amaro-concept/

    More Pictures.

    Camaro Story.

    Compare with the Challenger.

    Which do you guys like better? I like the Challenger best, then Mustang and Camaro. It's really hard to choose as all of them look so good!

    About the Camaro, if it doesn't prove Chevrolet can build desirable vehicles then I dont know what will. It will also lure buyers into dealers to look at other cars. The Camaro is one of Chevrolet's best cars in terms of styling.

    Without futher ado, let the muscle car wars begin! :D
  • reddogsreddogs Posts: 353
    If they build it, buyers will come.........

    "From the time ESPN motorsports announcer Jack Arute kicked off the festivities... it was a Camaro lovefest from beginning to end. It started with a parade of the most legendary first-generation Camaros GM could assemble, from Mark Donahue's legendary Sunoco racecar to an original and very rare 1969 ZL-1 ...And just to assure everybody that the new concept was in good hands, the last Camaro down the line was a '69 Super Sport owned by GM Vice President of Design Ed Welburn.

    A couple interviews with Roger Penske and former Chevrolet general manager Jim Perkins later and the crowd was sufficiently soaked in the aura of GM's long since discontinued pony car. Bob Lutz ..drove the car in amid cheers and applause.. The new concept is more than just a modern version of the 1969 Camaro. It has very different proportions than the original. Although both are the same length, the concept car sits on a 2-inch-longer wheelbase and measures over 5 inches wider than the original. It's also slightly taller than a '69, despite its low roofline...... From the two big gauges behind the steering wheel to the auxiliary dials mounted down low on the console, there's plenty of heritage packed into its cabin.

    GM's designers claim to have had more in mind than just the '69 Camaro when they drew the concept. They looked to the current Corvette for some inspiration as well as the angular YF-22 fighter jet. Their goal was to make the Camaro appeal to current fans while giving it a shape that would attract younger enthusiasts just the same.

    Part of that appeal comes from a drivetrain that's more than just a big engine hooked to a four-speed. The Camaro's all-aluminum 6.0-liter V8, which is backed by a six-speed manual, not only makes 400 horsepower, its Active Fuel Management system can shut down cylinders for better mileage on the highway. And unlike every other Camaro before it, this concept features an independent rear suspension for superior handling dynamics. "

    No lets see them build it and live up to the hype..... :shades:
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,206
    The windows were from the 66 Shelby. The 67 and 68s had the scoop in that area. Not sure the 65 GT 350s have the glass, can't recall.

    But as stated the car is more 69 and not 67 like most mags report. Looking at the front end, the headlights are more in, and the grille surround sticks out a little a little further than on the 67. The rear, particularly the taillights and rear valance, it's pure 69-70.

    Maybe they'll bring back the rear slats like on the Boss 302/429s (just kidding).
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    You are totally right...I checked out my Mustang spotter guide, and sure enough, the '66 Sheblby had those triangular windows. I don't know why I thought they were a '67 feature...but my reasoning for the addition (to counteract poor visibility) was right at least...

    Looking at both the '69s and the '68s, I'm kinda starting to see the '69 in the new one now.

    I LIKE those sport slats...but yeah, I'm willing to concede that most people won't. Rumor has it that Dodge was considering factory hood pins on their Challenger concept, but nixed them for the same reason. :)
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    Per the Imperial, should it become a separate division or remain part of Chrysler? I remember Chrysler trying to make a go of Imperial as a separate division from 1955-1975.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    "I checked out my Mustang spotter guide"

    Your what??
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    'I checked out my Mustang spotter guide'

    "Your what??"

    That's right! :surprise: Hey, I love the heritage and given how long they've been in production, there's a lot of changes to keep track of... :)
  • reddogsreddogs Posts: 353
    Mustang spotter guide, Wow!, I have got to get me one of those, does it download to the Palm™ ........ :shades:
  • Isn't Ford bringing the Euro-Focus over here?

    They could slap on a Pinto badge and stick on round head lights to bring back this infamous nameplate.
  • odie6lodie6l Hershey, PaPosts: 1,172
    I still like the '69 "Last of the Interceptors" Ford Falcon they had in Australia. The current XR-8 Falcon they sell down under is a rocket. I got to rent one while visiting relatives last summer. Boy, Ford would have been better bringing that over here to replace the Taurus rather then making the Frusion.

    But remember the exchange rate Australia $1.00 / US $0.50. So a vehicle that would be $51,000 there would be $25,500 here. They also still have the Ranchero but it is called the Falcon Ute (and doesn't look half bad either).

  • odie6lodie6l Hershey, PaPosts: 1,172
    and speaking of the Falcon Ute. Ford could bring it over at the same time GM brings over their Holden Ute (El Camino).

  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    So uh... anyone else think that Pontiac should receive a pony car and Chevrolet shouldn't?

    If they bring back the Camaro, I'm getting back on the "kill Pontiac" bandwagon.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    Why kill Pontiac bandwagon ????? I personally am not in total love with the Camaro. I liked the Trans-Am better than the Camaro during the golden years and feel the same now. However the new 2008 GTO isn't the prettiest car either based on sketches but perhaps it will look better in person ????? More Like Kill the Camaro and revive the Trans-Am :P

  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    The existence of the Camaro as a Chevy would make Pontiac pretty redundant as a brand.

    If I were in charge, I'd only build the Pontiac version.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    Not if they made the Pontiac brand more of a sport/lux brand. Think BMWish. Chevy could be more rude and crude like Dodge. It takes the cars to change the flavor and distinguish them something GM has yet to do enough of.

This discussion has been closed.