Lincoln made a good start into the import segment with the LS. Lincoln could have expanded on the LS theme. Modernize with better and larger ptoducts on that theme. Give the car a reliable intelligent active suspension. On that could be programed for the various users of the vehicle. This along with awd could be standard on a variant. There are a number of ways to produce this car for individual taste. Give it a hefty option list. Like makers use to do. The LS got off to a good start with customers. Ford never really improved on it over the years. Sure the engine and interior were upgraded along with a modest body style change. But not the whole design. The price of the car was about 5k lower than what it should have been. Ford claims that it couldn't make money on this car. Ford never really tried to market this car correctly. Right now a TCL goes for about 52 k. The S type car that would replace it could go for about 55-57 K Many say Lincoln doesn't want to go that high. I say why not. It doesn't have to be the same size as an S either . As far as the MKS there are a number of was to make this car more appealing along a broader line of customers. For one thing ,make it more like Audi. The larger Audi's have a much better ride than the smaller ones. The ride is controlled without being too harsh on the senses. This car rides more akin to Volvo. By the way, I really think that electric steering is heading in the right direction. People believe that if one criticise a product one must hate it. Criticism can be good as long as it's done honestly.
Ford has canceled the development of its new rwd platform. People in the industry have known that Ford was going to do this for at least eight months. Ford was never really serious about producing a large rwd Lincoln. If it were, the MKS would have been it. During development of the MKS there was plenty of time to develop a rwd platform for it. This car was being planned about a year to 16 months before the demise of the LS. The only decision to be made was to pertain to its styling. Lincoln will probably be terminated after a few years. Product development for Lincoln will be terminated with no new products added to its line -up after the MKT. Lincoln will consist of badge engineered products of Ford models for the foreseeable future. I don't believe that Ford is in as good a financial condition as it pertains to be as compared to GM and Chrysler. After 8 - 10 months it will also be seeking aide from the gov.
Prey tell, how big do you think the RWD Luxury sedan market is? Do you think its bigger then the entry level sedan market? The mainstream mid-size sedan market? Even the sport coupe market? The pick-up truck market? The entry level FWD sedan market?
I see his point that it would be fun if Ford had a nice RWD platform to use, the Pontiac GTO and G8 are both nice rides, as is the CTS, but it also seems like those aren't exactly flying out the door either. I remember the Lincoln LS as being a great car, but a lot of it was shared with the Jag S-type IIRC.
Right now, make what you can sell easily, get into the clear, then start working on fun projects A Fusion SVT or Taurus SHO with a manual would be nice!!
I purchased an MKS 4 months ago. I keep having problems with the rapid deceleration cylinder deactivation. The car always dies out. The dealer repairs it and the repair last for a couple a weeks and then it acts up again. This has happened about four times already. Now the rear bumper is separating from the body. When the car goes over a bump the bumper now rattles. I am getting rid of this junk Monday morning. Yea buy American.
Hmm joined yesterday and only one post, I cant decide if he is a troll or not. I feel bad for him either way. I didn't think the cylinder deactivation cars were out yet. I haven't seen an EcoBoost one on the lot.
Well, then tell me why the car dies out after I leave the highway and have to restart it? This happens only after I let off the accelerator to let the car coast. Waiting for your answer so I can tell the service manager what to look for. I'll be waiting. An engineer should have some idea what is wrong with this car.
So what engine does it have? How many miles are on it? What region is it located in (west coast, east coast, north or south, middle states etc)? Does it only do it when its cold or does it do it every time you let go of the gas? Is it only on the highway?
You mentioned they fix it for a minute and it comes back, what is that fix? Do you get a check engine light?
Do you have to physically pull over, come to a stop on the shoulder, put the car in park, restart the car, then put the car back in drive and go again? Or can you do it in neutral while coasting?
I am still waiting for an answer. Let me know why the car dies out after I leave the highway and let it coast? Why do I have to restart it when that happens? An engineer should know why. Particularly a Ford engineer. Let me know by Sun eve or the car is gone tomorrow morning. By the way, you should feel sorry for me considering how much I paid for the car.
The engine just dies out When the accelerator is depressed the cars engine is dead but only after leaving the highway. I just restart it and then it is fine for the day. This happens intermittently. The dealer says that the software that controls the engine that adjust for the change in acceleration is not quite working right. Why not just change the brain-box? The engine is the 3.7 litre. I live in Lake Forest IL . About 50 miles north of Chicago. It has een cold here ,but it has also done it when it was in the 60's. the car has about 3900 miles. I presumed that he was talking about the rapid deceleration what ever. Now the rear bumper is lose. Believe it or not I was going to purchase a Volvo before this car.
I have a LM dealership in the Chicago area. I read about your problems. If you want, you can set up an appointment with me. I will take personal charge to see what is the cause of your problem. Some dealers personal are just not very good or don't take pride in their job. Usually the item that is causing such a big problem is a small item easily repaired. Some mechanics are always looking for complicated reasons.for a malfunction. And sometimes a person unfortunately gets a bad product that is hard to figure why the problem is happening. Give us a chance to perform surgery if needed on your car to make you happy. If it's determined that the car is the occasional bad apple that happens to every product once in a great while , I will help get a new car from Ford for you. This a true story My dad bought a 1978 Rolls Silver Shadow. Every time it rained hard the trunk would be soaking wet. the dealer couldn't determine why this kept happening. The seals on it were changed repeatedly. Finally a Master mechanic from Crewe came to examine the car. He got into the trunk and hand high pressure hoses spray water on the trunk. He determined that the seals were faulty. The seals were replaced and it just kept happening. Finally the people at Crewe gave my dad a new car. Unfortunately things like that happen to every product. Also if you really plan to get another car you wouldn't want another person e to inherit these problems If you decide to take my offer here is my email superduperspeedfreak @ gmail.com. We can arrange a free loaner if need be also There is no excuse for the problems that you are having.
Take the offer from speculator. In Michigan, that many times it would qualify for the Lemon Law. I am sorry you are having so much trouble. Besides, I am not sure you are being told the truth of the problem. Please keep us informed.
I purchased a brand new 1982 Lincoln Town Car, 302 engine from the local small town FML dealer. It had a 50,000 mile warranty from the factory and before the time and mileage wore out the local mechanics installed quite a few BMAPs and O2 sensors because the throttle body injection engine was running very rich. The mechanics were using a diagnostic console and playing the odds.
Just before the 50,000 and time was up I drove to Bill Gill LM in Tacoma for their help in determining why it ran rich. They hooked the car to a huge diagnostic analyzer that published a long sheet which I took to my local dealer's shop foreman. He read it and was amazed. The next day I picked up the 82 with a newcomputer under the dash which solved the problem.
Diagnosing is best performed by the best equipment which I expect you have. Thank you for offering to help Roaddog & hopefully he accepts your offer.
I was finally able to sit in an MKS at the Washington Auto Show, and what I was most struck by was that outside of the center stack, the materials are great. And the attention to detail on the materials was what was really impressive. The entire doors, both front and back are completely made with nice, soft touch plastic.
To really get a sense of it, pay attention to the pocket in the front doors. You can squeeze it between you fingers and bend it back and forth, and you can tell it's nice, soft touch material all the way through. Some other cars in this class don't bother with the soft touch on this part of the door, but most just simply put a thin layer of soft-touch plastic over cheap hard plastic. You can feel it when you squeeze, or try and bend that pocket.
I just thought it was a really good example of where Lincoln paid attention to the little things on this car.
I think one of the other things that struck me was how much I preferred the vehicle with navigation to the non-navigation system version. That nice big display mounted high on the center stack where I can see and reach it just looked good to me especially compared to the regular version.
I am not saying that the MKS should emulate the S Class in every detail, only in ride and refinement areas. Surely these features would not put the price of the MKS into the stratosphere and they would make the MKS much more appealing to a larger audience and without alienating current Lincoln owners.
The engineering required to "emulate the S- Class" costs money, lots of money, which is why the S is so much more to buy. Pretty soon, as with the Lincoln LS, you have a great car, competitive with the German rivals, that you can't sell for what it's worth because it's a Lincoln. Then you can't make any money with it, since you have to sell it at a Lincoln price point, not a BMW price point, and next thing ya know, you have to start de-contenting the car to make it competitive enough to sell at all. Then you drop the concept.
It's not as easy to build a car, sell it at a profit, and keep your company going as it looks.
It's not as easy to build a car, sell it at a profit, and keep your company going as it looks. As practically every company is proving right now.
Looked at an MKS again over the weekend. Some more comments...the leather is nice...it doesn't look as big as it is and I don't think that is a good thing...the back seat seems smallish for such a big car...when the new Taurus is released, I think the MKS may be the plainer of the pair, especially from the side and rear.
Perhaps the MKT will do better in the marketplace, since it stands out more (not so plain)/is obviously bigger and roomier.
Hard to predict what people will buy now. A lot of traditional buyers are holding off pending the economy and some are making irrational purchases based on fear of higher gas prices.
I read today in news that retirees in Florida trade in their Mercedes for Huinday Genesis. Not bad for Huinday. They made us believe that Lincoln is old mans car.
With this economy, it is hard to believe that there was a great increase in sales across the board. So where did those shares come from. Cadillac, Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, who?
How many of them are trading their Mercedes' for MKS' ? Retiree doesn't equal senior or old. A person who has enough personal finances can retire at a relatively young age. What are the demos of those who are trading in their Mercs for the Genesis? Also what models of Mercs and more importantly why?
This info is provided by Huyday dealer. Huinday has an advantage over MKS - it is RWD and looks like a copy of Mercedes. Lincoln dealer would tell different story.
Hyundai (I remember a Saturday Night routine from years ago where it was pronounced High-Un-Day-Eye) is at a distinct disadvantage in marketing the very good Genesis. Although Hyundai is improving by leaps and bounds, and moving up market, it does not have a luxury division ( a la Lexus or Infiniti or Audi or Lincoln).
Given the price of the Genesis and that it is sold alongside the Accent, it is doing very well. Better than Mazda ever did with the Millenia and 929 (again without a luxury division), or of course VW with the very expensive Phaeton (a great car but way out of any VW price range). If Hyundai had a halo division (Courtesan? Privelige? Baromiq?),would not more nouveau riche flock to it?
Lexus made it big by providing dependability along with luxury and genuine luxury features. It will be interesting to see if Hyundai can do it here without a special division. The Hyundai Equus is every bit as expensive and ostentatious as the Phaeton, and it will probably come here. Lincoln and Ford, even though they are doing some creative things now, don't have the cojones to introduce that sort of real luxury machine.
I applaud Hyundai for their efforts with the Genesis - seems like a very good vehicle. But I seriously doubt they are taking any sales from Mercedes just yet, for the reasons Gregg states.
It isn't that expensive as Lincoln has had cars that rode like Lincolns in the past. Duh. They should resurrect the old air suspension system so the MKS rides better than a Ford. You can even make the car ride better with plain old coil springs if you tune the suspension properly and not shoot the whole budget on styling. A few years back Ford was spending more on R & D than any other company in the U.S.; too bad alot of that spending was wasted.
You're assuming that the firmer suspension was unintentional. I think it was entirely intentional and that they don't want mushy, floaty suspensions like the TC. That market is very small (and dying).
The AARP crowd is growing and will continue to grow as long as average life spans continue to increase. Cadillac kept saying in the 70s the older demographic is dying, but today the DTS (the only traditional Cadillac left [from 1985]) is Cadillac's second biggest seller. The TC sales took a big hit because production was suspended for about six months while the tooling was moved from Wixom to Canada.
I think that was more literal than you meant it to be. The average Lincoln owner pre-MKS and MKX/Z was over 70. Upmarket mainstream vehicles will hopefully drop that a bit, or Lincoln will die off with its customer base.
Cadillac kept saying in the 70s the older demographic is dying, but today the DTS (the only traditional Cadillac left [from 1985]) is Cadillac's second biggest seller.
Funny! Of course the number of us older codgers is growng...and AARP ropes people in now at age 50. I have been driving now for well over 40 years, and I know what I prefer in a vehicle. I cannot imagine turning some magical age and all of a sudden wanting a floaty-boaty ride. I suppose it coud happen, but I doubt it.
TC sales have taken a hit because the car has not been kept up with the times. It is an ancient design lacking 21st century amenities. The DTS design, while getting long in the tooth, is not nearly so backward.
Can you please explain what exactly do you mean by a floaty-boaty ride? I am serious. I have heard the term floaty used in a negative sense. What exactly is the perception of a floaty ride? Is it one where you don't feel the expansion joints or bumps very much? What is bad about that?
I agree with a previous post. Bring back a little bit of the cushioned ride of the TC in a more up to date car like the MKS and I think it will do very well. It can always be as an option, say with 18 inch wheels. For the people who want to feel the bumps more, put a firmer suspension with 20 inch wheels. I don't care about the ecobost. I don't want something that handles like a BMW, or I would buy that. I want a comfortable ride and I want an up to date interior and exterior with all the electronic toys.
It's a very soft suspension that soaks up bumps well but in doing so makes you feel disconnected from the road (floaty). Light steering makes it even worse along with cushy seats. Sort of like driving from your recliner.
This also usually results in a lot of body roll in corners - made worse by old flexible body on frame architectures like the TC. That's the "boaty" part - like steering a boat.
And while we may have more folks becoming senior citizens that doesn't mean they want the same type of vehicle as the previous generation. Most buyers today want a more controlled ride where you feel connected to the road with good handling.
If the market for boaty/floaty was so good then why isn't Buick #1 in sales? The DTS only sells well to fleets. Same with the Panthers (TC, GM, CV).
I will agree that boaty, by your description, is not a good thing. But, I still would like to feel the bumps less. I am not sure what you mean by light steering. Are you talking about the force needed to turn the wheel, or are you talking about how much you need to turn the wheel? I am not sure how that would make the floating feel worse.
As for you last question. I realize it is rhetorical. I admit that I have not driven a Buick since I drove my grandmother's in the 1970's. I take it you feel Buicks float and corner like a boat. I can't say. I can say this. In my part of the country, there are lots of TCs, GMs and CVs. Not as many as pickups, but still a good number, and certainly more than Buicks.
I mean both the effort required to turn the wheel at normal driving speeds AND the ability to "feel" the front tires through the wheel. If the steering is assisted too much then it's like steering a video game - you can't feel what the tires are doing.
If Ford only sold vehicles in "your part of the country" then maybe they could get by with floaty boaty vehicles. But they don't and the rest of the world doesn't want a rolling overstuffed lounge chair.
The MKS doesn't handle and perform as well as a 5 series Bimmer or STS or E class Merc. If to compare it to other fwd or awd vehicles The Audi A6 outperforms it and the awd Acura RL will have a better awd system when it adapts the super handling awd system for the RL. These vehicles are all in the same price range of a loaded MKS. It would really beat all if the MKS did but alas Ford could only do so much with the present platform. But then again Ford couldn't produce a car as good as the Hyundai Genesis. Also to be introduced in the U.S by Hyundai in 2011, is its flagship rwd sedan, the Equus. Reportedly it will offer a hybrid using Lithium ion instead of Lithium hydride batteries. The Lithium ion batter is about 40% lighter and smaller than any other battery pact on the market and it only uses 72 cells . The car is suppose to go on average 100 miles on battery alone with an average speed of 50 miles per hour. This is Hyundai not Toyota or Honda. Too bad it's not GM, Ford or Chrysler.
Reportedly it will offer a hybrid using Lithium ion instead of Lithium hydride batteries. The Lithium ion batter is about 40% lighter and smaller than any other battery pact on the market and it only uses 72 cells . The car is suppose to go on average 100 miles on battery alone with an average speed of 50 miles per hour.
How long does the battery on your laptop last? When its brand new? A year later?
This is Hyundai not Toyota or Honda. Too bad it's not GM, Ford or Chrysler.
Yup and if Ford, GM or Chrysler did that, and the batteries lasted a year before needing replacement, everyone would chime in...
I made a mistake. It's not lithium ion. It' is lithium polymer. It's basically a gel. Mac is using the new tech in its new Laptops.
That is okay, I think the point still applies...how long does your laptop battery last when its new? When its a year old? When its 3 years old?
If they have the financial backing to do this type or research and make it work, I think its great for them! I think this is part of what Ford, GM and Chrysler are lobbying the government to help with in the US.
Let us know when the Genesis outsells the MKS. And while I didn't bother to look up prices, I seriously doubt you can get any of those vehicles you mentioned, comparably equipped, for anywhere close to the MKS price. They are $5K - $10K more - at least.
Lexus is successful with less sporty luxury vehicles, so why can't Lincoln be - at least until they get new platforms?
To answer your question about pricing, I used truedelta.com to compare the MKS to the competitors list. I used truedelta, because it accounts for differences in standard equipment and adjusts the price accordingly. It can not adjust the price for things like driving feel, luxury 'feel', and other subjective qualities. I also selected the base engine for any competitor, and no AWD for any model (except the RL, which is required). The results are as follows for maximizing the number of shared features:
MKS vs 5-series: $12,505 less MKS vs STS: $12,960 less MKS vs E-class: $18,470 less MKS vs A6: $7,890 less MKS vs RL: $7,315 less (AWD for both)
"This also usually results in a lot of body roll in corners - made worse by old flexible body on frame architectures like the TC. That's the "boaty" part - like steering a boat."
I'd guess that's why trucks and stretch limos are built with frames. If they were of unit body construction, they would need training wheels or they would collapse. Body on frame construction is more durable, can handle more weight, and is much easier to isolate for noise, especially road noise. I.E., the Cadillac DTS has a issue with road noise when compared with a Town Car, and I presume there's really no cost-effective way to resolve the problem. Anyone remember the clunky and creaky 60s-70s unit body Chrysler products? Unit body construction saves weight and increases passenger compartment room, but I'd rather be in an accident in a body-on-frame car than in a unit body accordion. The best solution was the previous generation TC which had a unitized body secured to a perimeter frame; a very solid combination.
The best solution was the previous generation TC which had a unitized body secured to a perimeter frame; a very solid combination. Then why the heck was it so creaky, and shuddery over certain road imperfections is a way that unitized bodies are not, and sounded so unhappy when the bumps stops on the suspension connected?
BOF is not as safe as the new unitized designs. There are youtube videos showing how body and frame sometimes separate if you want to take a look.
Exactly. BOF is durable and works great for trucks (ever see how much the bed of a truck moves in relation to the cab?). But for cars you get more opportunities for movement and noise (where the body connects to the frame) and more weight all with a LOT more flexibility.
I think this is like the difference between a firm but supportive mattress or chair versus one that is soft and overstuffed. The soft one may feel better at first to some people or to those who haven't tried a firm one, but once you try the firm one you never want to go back because in the long run it's so much better.
There is a reason that BOF cars are dead. No need to resurrect them now.
Comments
Right now, make what you can sell easily, get into the clear, then start working on fun projects A Fusion SVT or Taurus SHO with a manual would be nice!!
So what engine does it have? How many miles are on it? What region is it located in (west coast, east coast, north or south, middle states etc)? Does it only do it when its cold or does it do it every time you let go of the gas? Is it only on the highway?
You mentioned they fix it for a minute and it comes back, what is that fix? Do you get a check engine light?
Do you have to physically pull over, come to a stop on the shoulder, put the car in park, restart the car, then put the car back in drive and go again? Or can you do it in neutral while coasting?
Just before the 50,000 and time was up I drove to Bill Gill LM in Tacoma for their help in determining why it ran rich. They hooked the car to a huge diagnostic analyzer that published a long sheet which I took to my local dealer's shop foreman. He read it and was amazed. The next day I picked up the 82 with a new computer under the dash which solved the problem.
Diagnosing is best performed by the best equipment which I expect you have.
Thank you for offering to help Roaddog & hopefully he accepts your offer.
To really get a sense of it, pay attention to the pocket in the front doors. You can squeeze it between you fingers and bend it back and forth, and you can tell it's nice, soft touch material all the way through. Some other cars in this class don't bother with the soft touch on this part of the door, but most just simply put a thin layer of soft-touch plastic over cheap hard plastic. You can feel it when you squeeze, or try and bend that pocket.
I just thought it was a really good example of where Lincoln paid attention to the little things on this car.
Also, here's a new review of the MKS from autofiends.com:
http://www.autofiends.com/index.php/2009/01/2009-lincoln-mks-fiend-vs-fiend/
Well, no SH*T! Congratulations for making the MOST irrelevant statement in this entire discussion!
I still like the MKS; I like the S-550 too, about twice as much, since it costs twice as much.
The engineering required to "emulate the S-
Class" costs money, lots of money, which is why the S is so much more to buy. Pretty soon, as with the Lincoln LS, you have a great car, competitive with the German rivals, that you can't sell for what it's worth because it's a Lincoln. Then you can't make any money with it, since you have to sell it at a Lincoln price point, not a BMW price point, and next thing ya know, you have to start de-contenting the car to make it competitive enough to sell at all. Then you drop the concept.
It's not as easy to build a car, sell it at a profit, and keep your company going as it looks.
Looked at an MKS again over the weekend. Some more comments...the leather is nice...it doesn't look as big as it is and I don't think that is a good thing...the back seat seems smallish for such a big car...when the new Taurus is released, I think the MKS may be the plainer of the pair, especially from the side and rear.
Perhaps the MKT will do better in the marketplace, since it stands out more (not so plain)/is obviously bigger and roomier.
MKS - 1535
Genesis - 1056
Maybe all those Superbowl commercials will help...
Given the price of the Genesis and that it is sold alongside the Accent, it is doing very well. Better than Mazda ever did with the Millenia and 929 (again without a luxury division), or of course VW with the very expensive Phaeton (a great car but way out of any VW price range). If Hyundai had a halo division (Courtesan? Privelige? Baromiq?),would not more nouveau riche flock to it?
Lexus made it big by providing dependability along with luxury and genuine luxury features. It will be interesting to see if Hyundai can do it here without a special division. The Hyundai Equus is every bit as expensive and ostentatious as the Phaeton, and it will probably come here. Lincoln and Ford, even though they are doing some creative things now, don't have the cojones to introduce that sort of real luxury machine.
"The MKS doesn't handle as well as my S550 4matic."
This comparison does take the cake...:):):):):)
I think that was more literal than you meant it to be. The average Lincoln owner pre-MKS and MKX/Z was over 70. Upmarket mainstream vehicles will hopefully drop that a bit, or Lincoln will die off with its customer base.
Fleet sales.
TC sales have taken a hit because the car has not been kept up with the times. It is an ancient design lacking 21st century amenities. The DTS design, while getting long in the tooth, is not nearly so backward.
I agree with a previous post. Bring back a little bit of the cushioned ride of the TC in a more up to date car like the MKS and I think it will do very well. It can always be as an option, say with 18 inch wheels. For the people who want to feel the bumps more, put a firmer suspension with 20 inch wheels. I don't care about the ecobost. I don't want something that handles like a BMW, or I would buy that. I want a comfortable ride and I want an up to date interior and exterior with all the electronic toys.
Actually I was being very literal.........
This also usually results in a lot of body roll in corners - made worse by old flexible body on frame architectures like the TC. That's the "boaty" part - like steering a boat.
And while we may have more folks becoming senior citizens that doesn't mean they want the same type of vehicle as the previous generation. Most buyers today want a more controlled ride where you feel connected to the road with good handling.
If the market for boaty/floaty was so good then why isn't Buick #1 in sales? The DTS only sells well to fleets. Same with the Panthers (TC, GM, CV).
As for you last question. I realize it is rhetorical. I admit that I have not driven a Buick since I drove my grandmother's in the 1970's. I take it you feel Buicks float and corner like a boat. I can't say. I can say this. In my part of the country, there are lots of TCs, GMs and CVs. Not as many as pickups, but still a good number, and certainly more than Buicks.
If Ford only sold vehicles in "your part of the country" then maybe they could get by with floaty boaty vehicles. But they don't and the rest of the world doesn't want a rolling overstuffed lounge chair.
How long does the battery on your laptop last? When its brand new? A year later?
This is Hyundai not Toyota or Honda. Too bad it's not GM, Ford or Chrysler.
Yup and if Ford, GM or Chrysler did that, and the batteries lasted a year before needing replacement, everyone would chime in...
That is okay, I think the point still applies...how long does your laptop battery last when its new? When its a year old? When its 3 years old?
If they have the financial backing to do this type or research and make it work, I think its great for them! I think this is part of what Ford, GM and Chrysler are lobbying the government to help with in the US.
Lexus is successful with less sporty luxury vehicles, so why can't Lincoln be - at least until they get new platforms?
I also selected the base engine for any competitor, and no AWD for any model (except the RL, which is required). The results are as follows for maximizing the number of shared features:
MKS vs 5-series: $12,505 less
MKS vs STS: $12,960 less
MKS vs E-class: $18,470 less
MKS vs A6: $7,890 less
MKS vs RL: $7,315 less (AWD for both)
I'd guess that's why trucks and stretch limos are built with frames. If they were of unit body construction, they would need training wheels or they would collapse. Body on frame construction is more durable, can handle more weight, and is much easier to isolate for noise, especially road noise. I.E., the Cadillac DTS has a issue with road noise when compared with a Town Car, and I presume there's really no cost-effective way to resolve the problem. Anyone remember the clunky and creaky 60s-70s unit body Chrysler products? Unit body construction saves weight and increases passenger compartment room, but I'd rather be in an accident in a body-on-frame car than in a unit body accordion. The best solution was the previous generation TC which had a unitized body secured to a perimeter frame; a very solid combination.
BOF is not as safe as the new unitized designs. There are youtube videos showing how body and frame sometimes separate if you want to take a look.
I think this is like the difference between a firm but supportive mattress or chair versus one that is soft and overstuffed. The soft one may feel better at first to some people or to those who haven't tried a firm one, but once you try the firm one you never want to go back because in the long run it's so much better.
There is a reason that BOF cars are dead. No need to resurrect them now.