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Scott
26/34 for an -S-
28/37 for a base Cooper...
...and 25/33 for the base with 6-speed automatic. Daughter has driven it for a week now - to college and back, 100 miles each way - and it has just less than a half tank in it. Will be interesting to find out if she can get back to school tomorrow with what's left.
And, as a 5'11" male, I can tell you that the back seat, while not real roomy, was OK for a couple of short jaunts around town, providing that my 5'3" wife pulled the front seat up a bit to allow room for my feet. I wouldn't want to go to her school in the back, but it was serviceable for the 15-20 minutes I was back there.
For the most part, it's just the daughter and maybe one friend at most, so the MINI will work well for that. She'll start bringing home stuff from her dorm room starting next weekend, so we'll see how much it can handle. We've got the VUE for her couch and a couple other larger objects.
I'm thinking Clubman S for my fun toy with the next purchase.
The only downside to the S is that it comes standard with the RFT's. Make sure you've got the $$$'s to replace them.
I despair more about the SMART engineers, however. Guys, this car is FAR from perfect! First, fix the crappy software in the Engine Control System, and the Transmission Control system. Then fix all the "safety interlocks" that do nothing but lock the driver out of being able to control the car in an emergency situation. Please - provide emergency shutoffs for things like the transmission, the engine, and the door locks! You've had 10 years to get this stuff right.
I can't wait to drive one and do a back-to-back with the Fit. The Fiesta, I hope, will end up as kind of a "tweener" between the Fit and the Mini, while also offering a strippo model for the folks just looking for cheap transportation. And unlike the Fit, the Fiesta can be had with a factory moonroof. :-) (and you don't have to spend $2000 buying NAV just to get the ESC, a definite strike against the Fit although I suppose that won't last much longer, with ESC being mandated on all 2012 models).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://jalopnik.com/5524168/
$13,995 to start, $15,795 for the 5 door.
Not cheap, but content is high for this class.
Oddity: 30/40 for the auto, 29/38 for the 5 speed.
autoweek report
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
But since I'm not interested in anything that says "automatic", I'm not much concerned. 29/38 for the manual is very good, given that it beats Fit by a wide margin and even beats Mini and Yaris, and translates to about 33/43 in the (for me) more accurate pre-2008 numbers. Which is better than the '02 Echo I drive to work now, despite it being heavier and more powerful than my Echo.
Now if they would only go ahead and follow Nissan's example and give it a 6-speed stick, I figure it would be good for more like 29/40. That's an unfortunate place to cut costs (I believe the European models get 6-speeds).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I was told this evening by a dealer sales manager that the Fiestas are only a couple of weeks out from arrival at dealers - will be very interested to give one a whirl. I am now reading that the Mazda2 will be the much sportier of the two, starting with being 250 pounds lighter. 100 hp, 2300 pounds. 29/35 mpg. So that one will get a try too. :-)
Everybody in the world is panning the CRZ, which is supposed to arrive at dealers on August 24th, but I am holding out hope for that one also.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I still want to see a non-hybrid CR-Z. Make it lighter and change the name to CR-X.
At least it's a fresh approach and, I think, needs to be judged on what it is rather than on what some journalist thought it might be............or hoped it was.
OTOH, the CRZ is like nothing else on the market. A hybrid two-seat sport coupe? The closest thing you find is the Miata (significantly worse fuel economy and more pricey, but of course with much more straight-line speed) or the Mini Cooper. The Mini is the closest thing in spec, and is faster, but also costs more if you do any personalizing. I dunno - there will be the people who want the hybrid badge in something that's actually fun to drive, there will be people without a Mini dealer near them or hesitant to buy one based on the poor reliability reports on the first-gen (that would include me - no dealer nearby AND hesitant). and considering that Honda only wants to sell 20K per year or something, I think they might be able to meet their targets.
As I say, I remain interested in CRZ as a possible replacement for my commute car.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The makers of the movie wanted to go underground the city of Los Angeles. The city of LA made things rough on them. They "made" them turn all 18 of the Mini-Coopers made by BMW in to all-electric propulsion Mini-Coopers. Couldn't have rigs that were that combustible in underground LA. The movie is quite entertaining and the scenes with the Mini-Coopers are ever-so-cool to view. I recommend ya get yer copy of 'The Italian Job' for yer viewing enjoyment if you at all like the BMW Mini-Cooper. You'll be glad ya did.
Hate to throw cold water over such enthusiasm but the re-make of "The Italian Job", with the BMW MINI's is utterly utterly atrocious. It's a typical Hollywood "the original was a great movie so we'll totally ruin it" job. Here in the UK it was laughed at - and not in a kind way. :lemon:
If you really want to see Mini's in action - proper Alex Issigonis Mini's, not the, (comparatively), bloated BMW things - then search out a copy of the ORIGINAL "The Italian Job", starring Michael Caine. If that doesn't make you smile and lust after a proper Mini then you may well be in urgent need of automotive resuscitation.
Sorry to be somewhat tardy in responding to the post but I came across by accident and couldn't just let it pass.
I still want to see a non-hybrid CR-Z. Make it lighter and change the name to CR-X.
ateixeira-I would like to see this occur, too. I find myself a slight CR-Z fan even without ever seeing one in person or sitting in one. I like it in pics and on paper. I think I could smoke it even with my '08 Lancer GTS with 2.0L I4 152 hp 148 ft-pnd. motor, but, the small car looks racey-fun and Honda has accomplished in sort of a quirky way what they are setting out to accomplish. That is, bringing us a New World Order 1988 CRX! Isn't that what they're out to accomplish? Course it is. At least partly. It's that other part that I find compelling and interesting to learn about. Bring it on!
What's interesting that just about all of you would not know is that I don't really like Honda motorvehicles much. That I even have a tad bit of enthusiasm about the new Honda CR-Z in any drivetrain form is peculiar and quite rare. Like a Seattle Mariner team winning the Super Bowl.
Come on, get yer red pens out and correct me, boys! :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Michael Caine played the lead.
Well worth watching.
"Ford knew the Fiesta will have to overcome Americans' historic aversion to small cars. It's been tried by many makers many times before. But the job is all the more difficult when Ford's own much-larger and still reasonably economical Fusion midsizer - a car two classes above the Fiesta - in on sale in the same showroom for similar, or even less money."
Fiesta Gets Tough Competition in its Own Showroom as Small-Car Sales Plod (AutoObserver)
I just spec'ed both cars out on Edmund's, picking SE models with the only options being the 6-speed automatic and the "sun & synch" package (includes sunroof and the Sync thingie). I got a TMV of $22,144 for the Fusion, and $17,319 for the Fiesta.
I guess it's possible that the Fiesta SE above is fairly well-equipped, while the Fusion SE has few, if any, options?
What Ford needs to do is come out with the new Focus and Fusion/Mondeo, and make sure there is less overlap.
Fusion should not be selling at $17k, it's a $20k plus car.
I'm sure at $17k Ford is losing money.
There should be some overlap, but not much. I imagine it like this:
Fiesta: $15-22k
New Focus: $17-25k
New Fusion/Mondeo: $19-30k
Something like that.
The Taurus is selling at MUCH higher transactions costs than the Five Hundred did, so they have successfully moved that model upmarket. Just do the same with the next Focus and Fusion/Mondeo.
Despite some price similarities between today's subcompact and midsize cars, there are many advantages to driving a smaller car besides the usual fuel economy gain. Advantages such as greater maneuverability, nimble handling, increased interior versatility (demonstrated by cars such as the Honda FIT with it's "Magic Seat" and 57 cubic feet of cargo space), and sometimes even more interior space than other compact and midsize cars - aka Nissan Versa.
Besides all of these advantages, sometimes it comes down to style and generational preferences/differences. Often younger buyers (those well under 25) seem to prefer sporty, fun, and efficient compacts as opposed to their larger, bloated alternatives.
Many younger buyers would rather have a Fit Sport, a CR-Z, or a Civic coupe compared to their parents frumpy Accord sedan, or a new, edgy Fiesta to their grand parents boring beige Fusion.
With some careful shopping most subcompacts can be had for a few thousand less than their midsize counterparts, all comes down to how many options you're wanting/willing to pay for.
I think you're right and I think that Ford hopes people load the Fiesta with those profitable options.
This winter I had to park my Miata (snow on the ground) and drove my Sienna, and a lot of spots were smaller due to piles of snow. The Sienna simply didn't fit anywhere. It's not even that long - about 200" (nearly 2 feet shorter than a Suburban), but still, I struggled to find parking spots that would accomodate it.
Good luck parking a Suburban.
So it is in the $20s after all.
They should've renamed it a "Rural" decades ago... ;-)
Yeah, but with the Suburban you could do what I did over the winter with my '85 Silverado...use it as a battering ram to make those snow-filled parking spaces bigger! Do that in the Sienna, and you might crumple the bumpers.
But yeah, I'd say for me at least, ease of parking is the biggest advantage of a smaller car. Out on the road, in most of my driving situations, the extra length of a bigger car is nil. When you're traveling down the highway at 88+ feet per second, an extra couple of feet isn't going to make much difference. But, when it comes to parking in a tight space, every inch can count.
Most parking spots I have to deal with are marked out and a standard spot, but in many areas, such as non-metered curbs in DC, various residential areas, etc, the size of the available spots is often determined by what was in that spot before you.
Agreed. Personally, I'd rather have a smaller car that is better equipped than a larger car that was sparsely optioned.
When we get tired of the Subie, we'll look at small hatches again. The Transit Connect still intrigues too.
I hear ya .. in the past 10 years we've downsized from a '99 Expedition to an '03 Explorer to an '05 VUE to an '08 VUE ... each time we've lost a bit of interior space.
However, the '08 VUE still manages to swallow most anything we need toting .. most recently, a large chair and ottoman for our home office.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Let's see how the US responds to tiny cars like the upcoming Toyota iQ.
The Smart ForTwo had wait lists when it was new, but now they can't give them away.
Let's see if a tiny small car can actually sustain sales.
Agreed. It hasn't been proven that the Fiesta is yet a success for Ford. They don't need to go smaller until they can show they've knocked it out of the park. Like Juice said, Smarts aren't exactly flying of dealer lots at the moment...
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
I sent her the link so she's aware, at least.
The previous iterations seemed to me to be blob-like. This new version is quite sharp looking, but I still wonder how well something that size would sell here in the US.
Cannot compare it to the Smart, since the Ka does have 4 seats. Ka starts at 7995 GBP, which is about $12,400 USD. Gonna be hard to sell something that small when the mileage is probably similar to a Prius or Insight.
Oh I don't know about that. I think that a $12-13K Ka getting the same mileage as a $22-24K Pruis would sell. Think about it, for the price of a Prius and the gas to drive it off the dealers lot you can buy the Ka and drive it for 150K miles.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I do believe you are correct about that, but I think Fiat / Chrysler are planning to position the 500 as more of a 'premium' subcompact - similar to the MINI. Haven't seen pricing yet, but would not be surprised if it was in the high teens or low 20's.
The Ka, OTOH, would compete with the Yaris and the Aveo in the A class segment.
The only way the Ka would sell for $12-13K here in the US was if it were to be built here. The strong Euro would conspire against such low pricing ... much like GM / Saturn had when they brought over the Astra.
If the Ka were imported, it would probably be around $15K, and that would overlap with the Fiesta.
It'll be compared with the Smart if prices overlap.
Consumers usually shop by price range. That's why a BMW 3 series is cross-shopped with much bigger sedans - people are looking in that price range, and similarly priced competitors are roomier.
Example: CTS vs. 3 series. Did you know the CTS is bigger than the 5 series? 100 vs. 99 cubic feet of passenger space. Trunk is also bigger, 16 vs. 14 cubes.
Dirty little trick by the Europeans.
Also, the seats in the Focus hatch same story.
Go to WWW.Auto Express.com and check out the Ford Focus Monvdeo.
Even now they don't have a lot of stock - my local dealer had 4 or 5, sold all but one immediately, and hasn't received any more. The one he has is a loaded SES automatic with a sticker close to $20 grand.
I am eager to check out the Mazda2 on this platform instead - a more basic car with a better handling package and a lot less weight (and better mileage for the manual). And a Mazda dealer is a lot more likely to order a few stick shifts than a Ford dealer.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)