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Midsize Pickup Comparo
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Comments
kcram - Pickups Host
If you still haven't found the particular article on the V8 Colorado, just go back to it and in the top right hand corner search type-Colorado V8, and it will bring a couple things up.
I hope the V-8 comes to pass. I have been Colorado shopping since '06, but have delayed the purchase waiting until I could pay cash. A home remodel has slowed my progress, and I'm glad now that it did.
The problems with the 04, 05, and 06 heads make me very happy that I waited until that problem was fixed, now hearing about the V-8 makes me especially happy to have waited.
The mileage should be at least as good as the I-5. It will be interesting to see what the tariff will be for the
V-8..!
I don't really need the extra HP, but what the heck, it will be my last vehicle.. Looks like a Christmas present for the old man..!!
The Full Size Chevy Silverado Crew has a turning circle only about 2' wider than the Colorado, is much higher in quality, takes on all competitiors in its class, Powerful V8, and is becoming available at $7000-9000 off MSRP as the summer progresses (as it did last year). At 25000 or so for a 33000 truck, it would be hard to fork out about the same for the Colorado, unless you have a lot of GM points and you really really really need a mid size. Test drive em and find out.
Since you're Santa put something shiny in the stocking instead of a lump of coal.
Good Luck
--jjf
Thanks for helping a computer dummy find the information on the '08 with a V-8. Good articles....
I hope the V-8 comes to pass. I have been Colorado shopping since '06, but have delayed the purchase waiting until I could pay cash. A home remodel has slowed my progress, and I'm glad now that it did.
The problems with the 04, 05, and 06 heads make me very happy that I waited until that problem was fixed, now hearing about the V-8 makes me especially happy to have waited.
The mileage should be at least as good as the I-5. It will be interesting to see what the tariff will be for the
V-8..!
I don't really need the extra HP, but what the heck, it will be my last vehicle.. Looks like a Christmas present for the old man..!!
The Silverado may be the best, but like the other full- sized trucks they are too much $$$, and the truck is way too big for regular driving. I have owned both compact and full size trucks and the compact (well now they are mid-size) is more of my size. It you could get the $4-6,000 off the MSRP on a full-size truck, than you should also be able to make a deal for a Colorado/Canyon. Other than the head problems of the past Colorado models, the rest of the truck is quite nice. I found nothing wrong with the interior and have driven a couple. The front end is the only part I don't car for in the truck. Hopefully my nephew doesn't have any issues with his 2005 Canyon that he bought new late last year.
You can get 6000-8000 off the MSRP on a full size truck. $12000-14000 off the Dodge RAM 1500. (This puts a lot of full size truck in your hands for $22000 )
I would consider Colorado starting about $8000 off its (already high) MSRP due to its exterior styling and where it starts to become competitive with the others. A fellow at work got his for $9000 off an 06 end of December
Funny the only thing that attracted me initially to the Colorado was the front end and sheet metal in general. Go figure. It does look nice on the road.
Happy Hunting
--jjf
The Silverado may be the best, but like the other full- sized trucks they are too much $$$, and the truck is way too big for regular driving. I have owned both compact and full size trucks and the compact (well now they are mid-size) is more of my size. It you could get the $4-6,000 off the MSRP on a full-size truck, than you should also be able to make a deal for a Colorado/Canyon. Other than the head problems of the past Colorado models, the rest of the truck is quite nice. I found nothing wrong with the interior and have driven a couple. The front end is the only part I don't car for in the truck. Hopefully my nephew doesn't have any issues with his 2005 Canyon that he bought new late last year.
--jjf
My 07 Nissan Frontier is more than big enough for this Puppy, particularly since it is driven mostly on city streets. Size-wise, I can barely fit it into my garage and then shut the door. And it's a short wheel base. Good truck so far, fun to drive, handles well, gets decent mileage if one goes easy
$9,000 off with rebates, GM card, and other dealer discounts maybe. They are not going to lose money selling a truck to your friend even though pickups are known to be the most over-priced.
The only thing that doesn't make the Colorado/Canyon competitive is the lack of towing and hauling. The truck obviously is underpowered compared to the competition but that will supposedly change. The previous S10 was a work horse in comparison that could out-haul and tow much more than the Colorado.
As far as looks other than the contraversal front end styling of the Colorado, from the door back it is a clean design unlike the Japanese models. The Nissan in my opinion is still the ugliest truck on the market. I used to sell Nissan hard bodies (what they used to call them) and preferred them over the Toyota because I sold them. When I talk of clean styling I am saying that clean to a custom truck builder means no ridges, big wheel wells, or general odd shapes. Smooth lines are best for customizing and the Nissan is far from it. I don't mean to attack your preference in a truck, but Nissan trucks are on the uggo side. What is with Nissan with that silly tailgate latch. Both trucks have this huge tailgate latch area, for what? It is best styling wise to keep things to a minimum including the tailgate latch. Most custom truck owners remove or reverse the tailgate latch any ways, but the Nissan would need a custom tailgate to fix that.
Have I driven one, no I haven't. No reason to. I have seen them and that is good enough. The Colorado is light duty and that is why it is praised for ride and handling. All these trucks and most cars are pretty much the same nowadays except for engines and some other minor differences. Even if the Colorado hasn't won any shoot-outs, that doesn't mean its a bad truck. Mostly from what I have read it comes up short on power, but who really needs more than that in these supper light duty trucks. Most only drive them on the road any ways with nothing in the back. Give me a four cylinder and leave it at that. Chevrolet in general have alot going for them with their reputation for longevity. My 1992 S10 will attest to that. Wouldn't it be boring if everyone had the same truck? To each his own. Happy trucking.
I happen to see the new gen Frontier as a good looking truck. And yes, I do own one. I also realize it is very subjective, all that looks "good" or "ugly". Now that I've owned it for a while, this little Titan just gets better lookin' because it's such a performer. It does everything I ask it to and beyond. Of all the trucks I've driven, going back 35 years, this is the Champ. That said, I seriously looked at the Taco, it was a fairly close second choice, but I see the Taco as a relatively unadorned over-priced truck. Liked it, just not enough. I had hopes for the GM twins, but was dissapointed with their I-5. Nice looking to my eye, could use a little refinement. I wish G.M. good luck.
I bought what suited me the most, I'm happy with that, I hope everyone else does just that.
Cheers!
Fit, finish and build is just not there, more competitive with most offerings before 2005, but they missed the next cycle by beating the others to market by a year. The towing, I-5 etc is a further negative.
One thing is for sure, if GM has its manufacturing together and is getting 23-25000 for its 4wd crew offering like the others they are making a fortune. Ugly is too subjective, especially with trucks but GM has always had the sheet metal advantage, there are many truck buyers who won't consider an import, and with its 9 mo head start at the intro, has a lot more of these on the road than the other newer designs combined.
If I could get $9000 off instead of 4000-6000 off like the others later this year I would buy one.
--jjf
You're not too opinionated are ya'?
I happen to see the new gen Frontier as a good looking truck. And yes, I do own one. I also realize it is very subjective, all that looks "good" or "ugly". Now that I've owned it for a while, this little Titan just gets better lookin' because it's such a performer. It does everything I ask it to and beyond. Of all the trucks I've driven, going back 35 years, this is the Champ. That said, I seriously looked at the Taco, it was a fairly close second choice, but I see the Taco as a relatively unadorned over-priced truck. Liked it, just not enough. I had hopes for the GM twins, but was dissapointed with their I-5. Nice looking to my eye, could use a little refinement. I wish G.M. good luck.
I bought what suited me the most, I'm happy with that, I hope everyone else does just that.
Cheers!
If you really need 4wd, the Tacoma, Frontier, or a Full Size may be the way to go, as I'm not sure how the 4wd is compared to the others on the Sportrac.
Good Luck
--jjf
Not sure which way to go, I like aspects of both, Ridgeline RTX Price, driving and interior vs. ST's exterior styling, bed, frame, and 4X4 low. According to consumer reviews, its seems ST owners are happier, yet most auto reviews gush over the Ridgeline and are lukewarm over the new ST. Has anyone compared the two? Which did yo buy?
Yet, if you need to haul some plywood, the Ridgeline is the better choice, as it will accept 4' wide paneling flat on the floor between the rear wheel wells. Not so for the SportTrac.
Also, I believe the Ridgeline's 1,550 or so pounds payload is a higher than that of the SportTrac.
The only major issues I have with the Ridgeline is that there is no low range in the 4x4, and that it (and the Sport Trac too) has a temp spare tire.
Here's an Edmunds comparo of the base models of both these two:
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison?op=0&tab=pricing&isbasecar=false&modelid=&styleid=&refid=&maxvehicles=5&vehicleindex=&removestyle=&numCars=2&just=center&disclaimer=false&modelId0=100516825&styleId0=100756780&modelId1=100505388&styleId1=100693726
Bob
I nearly forgot the B4000 even existed.
Very dated considering the current competition.
At least they've updated the engine power (if little else).
Too bad even that isn't competitive anymore, in this land of 240+ horsepower V6 midsizers.
I wonder if anyone other than some foreign import from India or elsewhere will have a compact truck again.
One has to look at how many more sales would be gained by putting millions into a new Ranger. It becomes a matter of investment and output.
The ranger is in a nitch all it's own. I don't personally own one, but believe the small size still has great appeal to people that want a pickup with a lot less size than the F150, Ram, and Silverado. The smaller size offers more room in the garage, better fuel economy, tighter turning, and lower initial cost than it's bigger brothers.
Kip
Yes, as I mentioned the Dakota was restyled with still an over-sized grill, in my opinion, for 2008. At the same time it is rumored to be one of the vehicles dumped by Chrysler in the next couple years according to autob--g. Chrysler simply doesn't sell that many of them and as I mentioned they are too big now.
The Ford will definately be gone soon according to many sources, but the question is will they eventually bring back a replacement? It is only wishful thinking that they will have a replacement at this point.
Automakers need to bring back compact trucks again because they are too big now, and the buyers generally only use them for commuters anyways. A Chevy Luv, Ford Courier, Dodge D50, or old Datsun p/u would be perfect sized for the majority of buyers.
Exactly!
I don't own and never have owned a Ranger or any other model of Ford Pickup. However, the Ranger is still fairly close to the size of the original "MINI" pickups. Therefore in a pretty good position. What it needs is High MPG engines. Possibly small diesels.
I had a "Datsun" stick shift and the mileage wasn't a lot better than the Chevy Cheyenne 350 Auto that was traded for it. A couple of trades later netted a Dodge D50. Seems it had a 2.6 I4 engine. With the AT it got 18+/- mpg on the road and 14+/- mpg commuting. The last 2 small trucks with carburetors were an old Toyota I4 MT and Mitsubishi Montero. Both 4WD MT and both averaged 14-15 commuting.
Last Pickup was a 98 Ram Sport AT, 5.9 V8. Commuting 13-15 Mpg. Highway 17-18 mpg.
Point is that the old "small" Pickups didn't get any better mileage for me than the larger.
Today, the mfg have the opportunity to build a small pickup from composites and other light weight materials that could weigh in at 1500-2000 pounds less than their full size big brothers. Install a variable valve, small engine that will shut off half the cylinders when not needed. Maybe with an efficient turbo to kick in, when power is needed.
Right now we, the American public, have gotten use to the idea of $2.75 - $3 gas. The mfg are constantly raising the Horse power but not doing much for mileage. When, and I believe it will, gas goes to $4 or $5 a gallon, we will be crying the blues again. Maybe Dodge would have been better off making the 4.7 more efficient than more powerful.
There is and will most always be a place for large, heavy, powerful pick up trucks for heavy towing and hauling. However, most of the Pickups on the road have a driver only, nothing in the bed, and the 4WD models never go off the road.
I believe the day will come that the Ford Ranger or maybe even a Honda CR-V pickup thingy, or Subaru Baja will be sitting in the "Cat Bird" seat.
Instead of the present day thinking of "MY small pickup is bigger than yours and burns more gas", we will be thinking, "My small Pickup is all I need and gets great mileage".
Just some thoughts.
Kip
I got about 20 mpg on the two 4 cylinder trucks no matter how I drove them even the a/c on the 2000 did not seem to matter.
The '05 V-6 gets about 18 to 19 around town and 21-24 mpg on the road depending on what speed I drive at. This is using a light foot and looking ahead to avoid having to stop for lights when possible.
If I drove the '05 like I did the other two it would probably get about 14 or 15 mpg. With age you gain wisdom and patience thus the better mpg.
OkieScot
--jjf
Your wish may well come true. Saw on the news a day or so ago that gas is $4 a gallon in parts of California.
A lot of folks that thought they "needed" a mid to full size truck, might begin to re-think the NEED vs. WANT ratios.
Towing and hauling can/will dictate the size and power of our truck "NEEDS".
What about "wants"? Even though I don't really have a need; How do I look driving it, how do I feel driving it, am I making a statement, are "WANTS" based a lot on ego? And yes!... In my minds eye, I looked darn good driving around in my full size White Ram Sport.
It is interesting that at my place of part time employment ( a shooting range/gun store) most of the guys drive full/mid size pickups. The guy with the old '80s 4wd Toyota and the guy with the Ranger seem to always have something or other in the bed to take home or take to the dump.. The full size and mid size trucks rarely do, and when they do, it is usually something that would have fit in a Ranger bed. However those owners are complaining about the $75+ fill ups every week or so.
We are seeing more and more small Suvs becoming available. I expect to see a similar trend for Pickups in the near future, along with "interesting" engine choices.
Kip
I love my '06 Nissan Frontier SE Crew Cab and with the 6-Speed I get 22-1/2 to 23-1/2 MPG on the highway. If Nissan had made it several inches narrower, it'd be even more perfect for a thin family like ours.
It's been my theory too that s long as people can put gas on a charge card, it doesn't 'hurt' their finances as much as if they had to instead peel off three or four $20 bills. The average American houshold has $8500+ of credit card debt, thus hasn't done a real good job of watching costs on anything.
I wonder why GM or Isuzu do not offer these storage bins on US trucks, at a minimum they should offer them to commercial customers.
"It's been my theory too that s long as people can put gas on a charge card, it doesn't 'hurt' their finances as much as if they had to instead peel off three or four $20 bills. The average American houshold has $8500+ of credit card debt, thus hasn't done a real good job of watching costs on anything."
I agree. I tend to spend much less when paying with cash. Odd how that works, isn't it?
The truck mfg are simply catering to our belief that bigger is better and our "Want" of instant gratification. Five and six year financing (and sometimes longer), interest only payments, and the credit card have enabled the small Pickup to grow in size, and therefore in price, to equal the full size ones. It is not hard to spend $30K +/- on a mid or full size truck. Either, with what would have been considered "Well Equipped" 5 years ago, can be purchased for much less than $30k. But with all the latest gadgets and long term financing we "Need" the $30+K one.
I remember paying about $3,300 for a new '73 Chevy Cheyenne P/U, "LOADED" with everything except leather. Even back then I thought I "NEEDED" all the bells and whistles.
We feel we "Need" all the GEE WHIZ bells and whistles. And we can have them at the "same low monthly payment" as a lesser truck. All we have to do is to stretch payments out (with more interest) 12-36 months longer. :sick:
If we had to save the money to pay cash, and unfold those bills during the purchase, we would be a lot more careful when balancing the "Needs" and "Wants" act.
After the initial shock, $4-$5 gas will become a way of life and just another thing to complain about and add to the plastic card. And Visa will dance with Glee! :shades:
Kip
At the recent L.A. car show, I sat in the Ford and Chevy full size trucks and was amazed. In my Dad's old truck I could reach across to the door handle and window crank on the passenger side. It was a long reach but I could do it. These new trucks had my hand waving around a good foot to a foot-and-a-half away from the door.
And the climb up into the cabs is getting ridiculous. The old F-250 had a seat height that was perfect; just sling your keester sideways and in you went. Not now. You need oxygen and a small lunch to go up that high.
Our "compact" trucks are definitly the size of the old trucks, so that is where my money will go when the time comes for the next P/U purchase.
Tigger 32
I have also heard that Chevy/GMC is going to have a 4.5 litre Diesel coming out although I have not heard any specs on it.
All this is to ponder the question, "Will Nissan, Toyota, Ford, etal. answer the call and give us some good mileage Diesels in our small trucks? Heck, Mercedes has the Sprinter Van with it's 2.7 litre 5 cylinder that is doing great in the delivery van / motorhome business.
We can only hope.
Tigger 32
--JJF
With diesel fuel currently selling at a price higher than premium gasoline in my (U.S.) region, I'm not as enthusiastic about the economy of a diesel truck. In the final analysis, a diesel may indeed be more economical, but I don't think MPG tells the whole story. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Diesel technology is growing at an exciting rate.
Here is info. on the new Duramax. It will be manufactured in Towanda, NY. Will be available as early as 2008 for 2009 model year and no later than calendar year 2009 in the 2010 model year trucks.
Ford will have a 4.4L V8 diesel in the F150. Bad news is Ford has already reduced it's planned production numbers for the new engine. It will be manufactured in Mexico. Expected to arrive in 2009 calendar year in 2010 model year trucks.
Dodge has 4.2L V6 and 5.6L V8 Cummins engines in the pipeline. They are not scheduled to arrive until 2010 model year.
An International diesel engine in the 2009 Nissan Titan has been rumored for quite some time, nothing more than a possiblity at this point. Nissan is said to have put it's 3/4 ton Titan program on hold.
As to midsize trucks, well, don't hold your breath waiting for diesel. The only one that has even been mentioned is Honda Ridgeline with a diesel V6 in 2010.
There was buzz in the past of Isuzu bringing it's diesel engines to be installed in Isuzu versions of the Colorado. GM Colorado/Canyon and Isuzu DMax were a joint project of Isuzu and GM and were primarily engineered by Isuzu. No modifications needed to interchange powertrains. Now the only speculation is when Isuzu will fold the consumer sales of vehicles in North America and sell only larger commercial vehicles. Isuzu's contract with GM to supply the i-series trucks and the Ascender SUV is nearly completed.
Spent some time over on the Jeep Liberty Diesel forum. They seem to be having real problems with the diesel engines not running well.
One thought that comes to mind is that it is new and there are "Bugs" to work out.
However, another thought dictates that "Bugs" should be worked out before the consumer takes over. I can understand how some problem might not rear it's ugly head until a few thousand miles are on the clock, but some of these problems seem to be there, right from the "git-go", and Jeep has no solutions as of this time.
Mercedes has been building diesel trucks and cars successfully for a long time. As pointed out by another poster, the Sprinter is a fine example. They have also been building reliable diesel cars for many years. Diamler (SP) owns Chrysler and Mercedes. So why the problems with the Jeep Liberty?
My understanding is that GM owns a big chunk of Isuzu. The flat nosed box trucks by Chevy appear to be built on the same assembly line as the Isuzus.
Why not put that proven engine into a Colorado? That engine works fine in the box trucks and should do very well in a mid size pickup.
Kip
Not anymore. GM sold it's stake in the past in order to raise cash.
Toyota purchased a significant portion of Isuzu.
Toyota purchased a significant portion of Isuzu."
Did GM sell all it's Isuzu holdings to "Toyota"? Wonder if GM hung on to anything that would be useful in the future. That diesel comes to mind.
Kip
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06/15/gm-announces-new-light-duty-4-5l-v-8-die- sel-for-north-america/
Here is a Direct Quote!
"GM Powertrain's Tonawanda engine plant opened in 1938 and has produced nearly 68 million engines. The plant covers 3.1 million square feet and employs 1,565 hourly and 260 salaried employees, with an annual payroll of $200 million."
Seems that payroll is an "Average" of $109,500 per person yearly. Of course the Executives will make more than the line workers, but that average seems excessive.
"The GM Powertrain Tonawanda plant management and UAW Local 774 leadership successfully negotiated a competitive operating agreement that improves operational effectiveness".
OK, that explains it! :sick:
Kip
I am well aware of the Toyota and Nissan small trucks with their Diesel engines. These have been a staple of the third world for decades and have been great runners. Reliable and fuel efficient for what ever time frame you look at. Why they have not been shipped over here has been a mystery to me for decades. In a Yahoo group that I'm in there is one guy in Europe that tows his small trailer with a VW "New Beetle" diesel and it does a great job, according to him.
I am getting closer to retirement and in a few years will be setting myself up to travel with a smallish truck and travel trailer to explore the US. If I were buying it today it would be the Nissan Frontier 4x4 (4.0 gas)and some kind of folding trailer like the Trail Manor. This combo will allow me to camp almost anywhere, places that would scare a motorhome to death. After setting up camp I could then go back country exploring with the truck. Let's see a motorhome do that!
With a sub 3 litre diesel engine (like the MB 2.7 litre in the Sprinter van) the Nissan would be fantastic!
Just my thoughts on the subject. Thanks for letting me vent and hopefully light a fire under any of the manufacturers that watch these lists. Nudge. Nudge. Come on folks, give us a cookie!
Tigger32
If you pull off the converters, no abs, airbags etc and put in cheaper engines you can have real cheap models for other countries. (you've seen how cheap stripper models can get here)
Good luck
--jjf
I want to thank all of you for your input. This subject has definitely stirred up some opinions.
I am well aware of the Toyota and Nissan small trucks with their Diesel engines. These have been a staple of the third world for decades and have been great runners. Reliable and fuel efficient for what ever time frame you look at. Why they have not been shipped over here has been a mystery to me for decades. In a Yahoo group that I'm in there is one guy in Europe that tows his small trailer with a VW "New Beetle" diesel and it does a great job, according to him.
I am getting closer to retirement and in a few years will be setting myself up to travel with a smallish truck and travel trailer to explore the US. If I were buying it today it would be the Nissan Frontier 4x4 (4.0 gas)and some kind of folding trailer like the Trail Manor. This combo will allow me to camp almost anywhere, places that would scare a motorhome to death. After setting up camp I could then go back country exploring with the truck. Let's see a motorhome do that!
With a sub 3 litre diesel engine (like the MB 2.7 litre in the Sprinter van) the Nissan would be fantastic!
Just my thoughts on the subject. Thanks for letting me vent and hopefully light a fire under any of the manufacturers that watch these lists. Nudge. Nudge. Come on folks, give us a cookie!
Tigger32
We are considering getting back into trailer camping! Did it for 10 years or so.
I seriously considered a Trail Manor until my next door neighbor bought a (19/27) 2 year old used one. Very flimsy! Folding and unfolding involve a lot of latches, pulling and pushing, moving of furniture, removing the 2 storage cabinets from the walls, collapsing the bathroom walls, and lots of air leaks once up. There is virtually no storage. During the up/down procedure the inside is open to the elements as the top is being maneuvered. Would not want to do it in the rain or a heavy wind. The guy he bought it from, got a hard, fixed side camper.
On the other hand, the "Hi-Lo" seems a lot more sturdy, better sealed and goes up/down with the push of a button or a hand crank. Stays dry inside as the top simply telescopes down over the bottom. Has decent storage and the inside doesn't need dismantling in order to close.
We are also considering the Fiberglass "Eggs". Especially the 16 footer. Light weight, aerodynamic, decent storage and livability. Near perfect for me and the wife. Chatted with folks pulling them with all kinds of vehicles. Seems the Frontiers,Pathfinders, Tacomas and 4Runners are getting in the mid teens towing them.
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/index.html
Kip
quote Truckin-
All in all, the Frontier is easily one of the strongest contenders in the midsize class in my book. Though the Toyota Tacoma certainly has its fans, and is a formidable competitor in most respects, it lacks the eagerness and responsive, sporty edge that the Frontier has. Even with the Dodge Dakota offering an optional V8, and the Chevy Colorado about to, the 4.0L VQ engine provided more than adequate scoot for 95 percent of situations. However, with the introduction of the 5.6L Endurance V8 in the Pathfinder for 2008, it's no longer a matter of "if" the big thumper will fit in the Frontier, but rather "will they do it?"
-end
If you pull off the converters, no abs, airbags etc and put in cheaper engines you can have real cheap models for other countries. (you've seen how cheap stripper models can get here)
Good luck
--jjf
Euro IV emissions and Euro NCAP safety.
Mazda BT-50, Toyota Hi-Lux, Isuzu DMax, Nissan Navarra all meet Euro IV emissions with their turbo-diesels and meet NCAP safety requirements.
Dual front airbags and ABS brakes are standard for most models with some trim levels having standard side and or curtain airbags.
There may be stripper models somewhere, however, there is one main production base (Thailand) and even models exported to South Africa have same safety equipment and emissions as those models exported to Europe.
EU has lower emissions level requirements for C02 and higher for NOx.
With minor differences, these trucks are as safe and as clean as those being sold in US/Canada.