Stories from the Sales Frontlines

driver100

What can they do if you don't but $140 wipers? Void the windshield warranty?

They checked off windshield blades as caution, and not fail. I think they are saying change next time. I will try to find out if they are covered, but, I think they are not responsible for things that would wear out under normal use, that depend on the driver or driving conditions. Things like tires, clutch, and wiper blades don't always break down because of a design fault...it varies depending on the driver.

driver100

The product speaks for itself and is arguably worth it (if you have the money), but those service prices are outlandish to this simple guy.

I basically agree. BMW is worth 20% more for service than chain or indie garages. In Canada we will pay 20% more because of higher costs, including real estate, wages, health car - taxes, longer distances to ship, customs fees, etc. We more or less accept that, but $240 for an alignment is sounding like double the real cost. I may get that done in Florida.

driver100

1. BMW Assist "Safety Plan" (emergency, vehicle recovery, enhanced roadside assisance, door unlock) is included for 4 years, not one year - unless you purchased that upgraded version

Thanks for pointing that out dino. I will definitely ask about that, and I'll ask my salesman about the wipers.

It could be that the basic plan is a 4 year plan, and this $199 is for an enhanced plan. They talk about if you are in an accident they will make sure you get a tow truck etc. It might be difficult when injured, but I could try to call one myself, if it saves me $199!

driver100

You sell a lot of books, maybe you should try to read some that you already have, like the owner's manual.

Explorer, have you ever actually read an owners manual from cover to cover?
You would read pages and pages of useless information, like this is how you open the ash tray....or to set the temperature find the temperature dial and turn it to the temperature you want. Life is too short to worry about 80% of the things in the manual.

I do use the manual if I want to look up a specific item, that is why it has an index.

I am really being facetious. I do agree it is best to look into these things to see what is covered and what isn't. I have just written to my salesman to ask about blades, alignment and assist.

But, I like most people have too much to do to read a manual. I'd rather read a good novel instead, right now I am reading a Dick Francis book and soon I will start Ken Folletts Winter of the World - Part 2 of the Century series - incredible!

But, a manual for the car, ah too dry for me.

driver100

auto role call from everybody (year, make, model, mileage)

Good idea nyc...we should do this monthly just to keep track.
2012 BMW 535iX (AWD) white/beige interior 12,600 miles
2013 Audi A4 Premium Plus (AWD) white/beige interior 600 miles
2013 Passat SE white/beige interior 0 miles, not built yet. Florida car

Maybe Mike could lease the Passat from March to Nov and then rent a Rolls for 3 months!

bwia

Heading out in a few to get the marriage license. Three weeks from today for dooms day

Marriage is like a job. In the old days people held the same job until they retired with a gold watch. Today, many will have four or more jobs in a life time. But it does not have to be this way.

If you approach marriage like I did (just celebrated my 40th. anniversary on 9/11) then you will be looking forward to years of bliss. We have two children and two grand kids and I cannot imagine the world without them. So, count your blessings and marry the one you love.

abacomike

maybe Mike could lease the Passat...

Sorry, *driver, I only have one parking space, but if I parked a Passat in my parking space, I'd have neighbors ringing my doorbell with fresh-baked cakes and cookies for my Dad and offering their condolences on the death of his son, Michael!

dino001

No, the emergency assistance is INCLUDED in "Safety" plan, hence the name (SAFETY). That includes car calling authorities on airbag deployment, or getting you a tow truck. The $199/yr is "Convenience" plan - it's about directions, concierge and that kind of stuff (hence the name - CONVENIENCE). Now - the Convenience plan has also a few non-emergency calls per year (I think the number is four) you can make from the car to a number of your choice in case your phone is down or you have no coverage.

My advice is read, read, read - before you open your wallet. And it seems those high-end products carry even more opportunities to spend money on things you'll never use, because you think you're buying something else, something that has already been included in another part, but listening to these guys you'd never know. The saleperson will often use a language to confuse things rather than explain them, just to make you add those 200 bucks. If he had told you those bucks buy you a high-end restaurant reservation service (you know, the one you can't afford anyway - well maybe YOU can, I know I CAN'T ), routing (but I already have a NAV, why would I need other directions?), or four phone calls from your car (but I haven't called anybody from my car in last year even when I had my cell with me), then you (well, I know I would) say NO. But the guy starts talking about the standard program along the convenience program in such a way like they are the same thing and before you know it, you think you HAVE TO spend those 200 bucks, or else. That's how it's done - the only remedy is read it before and ask pointed questions.

tjc78

Bwia,
Thanks for the advice. I'm in this for the long haul. I have an amazing bride to be. We have already been through so much and couldnt imagine life without her.

I am also in the minority in the work force as I'm 34 and have been with the same company 12 years and have no reason to leave.

mako1a

Cars owned roll call:
2001 GMC Yukon Denali 116k miles (wifes),
2013 Mustang GT 640 miles (mine and I like it).

dino001

One car owned: 2012 BMW 328i wagon (manual, sports package), 13000 miles. Probably one of three sold this model year in the US and one of twenty sold from its inception :shades:

abacomike

Thanks for pointing that out dino

*driver, see what your friends were trying to tell you? Even I knew that the BMW Assist basic plan is free for 4 years. Perhaps you "should" take a few days to pour through your manuals. I'll bet you find many things you didn't know about your car.

Mercedes only pays for the first 3 months for the Mbrace Concierge upgrade, and the Mbrace safety/security plan has a 6 month complimentary subscription. After that, the yearly charge for the Security/Safety Plan is $280.00. I do not use their "PLUS" plan because I have no need for concierge or their new "APPS" program. But I do extend the safety plan for 3 years (you can get a full refund if you cancel the service at any time, prorated monthly). The reason I extend that plan for 3 years is that there is a big savings on multiple years ($60 per year) and I save abouit $65 a year on my comprehensive insurance for stolen vehicle recovery assistance.

As was pointed out in a previous post many months ago, with Mercedes, when you push the emergency button for assist, they will respond even if you have no signal to a cell tower because it goes through their satellite system. But you will be unable to speak to someone - they just send a tow truck to you based upon GPS, which is a nice feature to have if you break down. Same thing happens if the airbags are deployed.

I get weather and traffic updates and forecasts through SiriusXM. With Mercedes, the first 6 months is a trial (for Radio, Traffic, Weather, etc.). After that, you pay. When they called me to set up the new system in the new car, I refused to give them a credit card number and used a 3rd phone number for reference so they couldn't get that info from previous phone numbers they have on file for me. That way, when I am about to extend the services, I can "negotiate" with them, as I always do, for Radio (that's 1 part of the service) and for Traffic and Weather (part 2 of the service, billed separately). Radio usually costs me about $110.00 a year and Traffic/Weather about $120.00 per year. The reason I like their traffic and weather on Mercedes as opposed to Lexus is that Mercedes interprets the signals and data so you can actually see a map of the country with all the cold and warm fronts, rain, snow, wind direction, wind speed, and zoom in to your location to see where it is actually raining. As for traffic, it is shows on the screen as little cars in yellow (slow moving area) red (heavy traffic) or red "xxxxx" (road closed or shut down due to accident). A stupendous extra if you don't mind spending the extra bucks. I would not have extended it with Lexus, but I probably will with Mercedes.

driver100

My advise is read, read, read - before you open your wallet.

Sounds like a good idea. The flyer they sent in the mail is very deceiving. It is called bmw Assist Safety Plan. I do like the feature where if you are in an accident and are unconscious they will send help. I like the one where they can find your car if it is stolen, though I guess insurance covers that - or at least will get you a new car.

But, do I need google maps from my computer forwarded to my navigation unit? I am not sure I need a Customer Relations Specialist during business hours to help me find a restaurant or make an appointment for me at my BMW dealer.

They don't tell you if you get the basic plan if you don't buy this plan....I have written to my salesman. Of course he is the one that told me my oil change would cost $180. I took it to a closer dealer and they also said it would be $180, but they did it for free....so, who can you believe?

abacomike

That's how it's done - the only remedy is read it before and ask pointed questions...

YOU TELL 'EM *DINO!!!

dino001

The website from BMW USA is quite good, especially after reading it couple of times, you get a handle. Of course, you need to read Canadian, hopefully their conditions are the same.

driver100

Radio usually costs me about $110.00 a year </

Youz guys are good! I will be surprised if the basic service is for 4 years, but I will try to get some answers before paying $199.

I have had one notice from Sirius and they want $15 a month to continue with the service. I'll see what happens when I let it lapse or if I talk to them - I got full instructions on how to do that with JMonroe, and, I may have to get him to negotiate for me for a small fee. If they don't want to negotiate I will see if I can buy it in the US using our FL address. I think they have a plan that gets you 20 channels for $8 a month, which is good for me, I only need about 6 to 10 channels anyway. That traffic and weather sounds good, but that's pretty expensive when I can get that on good old AM radio (of course, it won't have the nice graphics).

driver100

, you need to read Canadian, hopefully their conditions are the same

We speak the same language as you....English (just joking).
I have tried to find details on the Canadian site and it isn't clear. The car warranty of course covers car parts and engines etc. The maintenance warranty is not too clear. They will pay for maintenance that shows on the check monitor. They will not pay if you want to do an oil change before it is indicated. Wiper blades would not show up on the monitor. Brake wear does, but I will have to see what the manual says......actually, manuals, since there are 3 or 4 of them.

I don't think they show this information on bmw Canada. If you buy a BMW and go to the plant in Germany to pick up your car they give you 7% off your purchase price...in the U.S. Here they give you nothing, cheap---------(dealers!)

dino001

If you buy a BMW and go to the plant in Germany to pick up your car they give you 7% off your purchase price...in the U.S. Here they give you nothing, cheap---------(dealers!)

Yep, I know But that's not dealers, it's the BMW of C. Unless you used the word as an epithet.

It is strange that the websites would be so different. Seems like BMW US learned to be more upfront with the customers. It also me mean there are material differences in the scope of the coverage and BMW of C doesn't want you to know that in plain language. Perhaps courts (and lawyers) may also have something to do with it.

driver100

I forget what that is called when the letters slant to the right, but my posts are doing that now...harder to read, I know.

Dino, I am surprised BMW imports wagons since they sell so few of them in North America. Manual cars make up about 5% of their sales, the salesman estimated (JMonroeand engineers and accountants note, I said estimated, not exact) and it is decreasing each year as young people can't get a manual to learn on. Shifting is a dying art.

driver100

It also me mean there are material differences in the scope of the coverage and BMW of C doesn't want you to know that in plain language.

I have a feeling that is it. It could be the lawyer thing, but it is possible laws in the US are more stringent about disclosure. Most of the Canadian sites say, ask your dealer for details. Why disclose or make anything clear if you don't have to - that's what BMW of Canada would say, or at least their lawyers would tell them to say.

I used "dealers" so the hosts wouldn't know the real word I would use.

dino001

Yes, they do. Even the new one will also come as a wagon for 2013 MY (they first thought it would be replaced by Grand Tourismo, but it seems not).

High-end cars are about choices - make base components same, but put them together in such a way that everybody gets something more-or-less unique. This is German way of selling them, although wagon is not very popular. Audi still sells them, but the scope got more limited (they used to have A6 and S6 wagons) MB withdrew its C-class wagon some time ago. BMW backed off 5-series wagon. BMW also cut the manual out of the wagon for the new model . It was the last one standing (A4 manual wagon was gone five years ago and Saab went bust). I knew the change was coming (plus the 4-cyl turbo), that's why I ordered one when I did. 6-cylinder NA engine with manual and rear hatch - priceless....

bwia

Cars owned roll call:

2002 Honda Civic 113K miles
2005 Volvo S60 73K miles
2008 Chevy Malibu 41K miles
2011 Buick LaCrosse CXS 15.7K miles

Volvo is best in handling but prone to electrical problems. The Civic, bought it as a graduation present for my daughter but she now has a company SUV so she re-gifted it to me. Perhaps I will give it away to charity for a generous tax deduction.

abacomike

high end cars are about choices - MB withdrew its C-Class wagon...

Their E Class Wagon is quite nice, but my dealer said he doesn't sell that many. I would think that if somone wanted an upscale wagon, they would go for the BMW X3 or X5 or the Mercedes GL or GLS rather than spend almost the same money if not more on a wagon. IMHO, if I was looking for something with extra seating and more storage, I would opt for a wagon rather than an SUV. Mercedes also just introduced an AMG E63 wagon w/518 hp, but actually - how many of those would they sell in a year - not many I would imagine.

dino001

The idea of wagon is extra utility with same (not similar - same) handling as sedan. Since most people here (I mean the country, not the board) don't care (or don't know) what a well-handling vehicle is, they don't miss it - can't miss what you don't know, hence they will buy more metal and utility for similar price. I am not one of those people - I don't need AS MUCH more utility that is offered by X5, Q7, or M-class and X3, Q5 are not exciting me, either (neither does X1). I don't buy cars per pound or per inches legroom in the back.

Sporty wagon is just right amount of extra utility that I desire and it does not compromise handling vs. sedan. For me - it is just what I have always wanted.

fezo

This was my Grandfathers car. I remember picking it out for him, and will be keeping it for a long time.

I envy you that. I was too young when my grandfather passed and later, as my dad was leasing a series of DeVilles I decided that when it came time I'd take over the last one. He loved those cars.

Well, when it came to what was going to be the last lease he knew he had to move to something smaller. Talked about getting a 5 series and looked at lots of thing and ended up with a loaded Buick Century that he hated almost the moment the ink dried on the lease. Shortly after that he couldn't drive anymore and the car only got used by my brothers and I getting him to appointments and such. There was no real connection so when the lease was up we just returned it.

isellhondas

What's an ice scraper?

Until we moved to Washington State from so. California I had no idea either.

8sparkplugs

My list includes
2009 Hyundai Sonata Limited 38,500 miles
2007 Honda Pilot EXL. 87,000 miles
2001 Chevrolet Silverado Ext Cab. 240,000 miles
1995 Chevrolet Z28 Camaro. 127,000 miles

My wife would like me to get rid of one or both of the bottom two.

driver100

. 6-cylinder NA engine with manual and rear hatch - priceless....

I agree, that was a good move getting it while it was still in existance. They do seem to sell well in Europe and they prefer wagons to SUVs which makes sense when they probably pay about $8 a gallon for gas.

I have a feeling, though the 4 cyl turbos are faster than the inline 6s, they will cost more for upkeep over the long run.

driver100

Perhaps I will give it away to charity for a generous tax deduction.

I don't think Fezo gives charitable receipts.

jmonroe

I clearly said I was just recalling those numbers from my head, and I knew they were just examples to give the idea, and not exact. I forgot I was dealing with an engineer who may want to be more precise.

By choosing 100 th of a millimeter (0.01 mm) as an example, that was a bad example for an engineer. All I was trying to do was to get you to understand how small of a measurement that is and how it cannot be achieved while doing an alignment. I don&#146;t know where that kind of accuracy is required anywhere on a car and that includes boring the block to get the pistons to fit. An eye surgeon probably doesn&#146;t have to be that precise.

Let me try to relate this to some practical measurement that all of us can understand. A standard piece of copy paper that we have in our printers is, for all practical purposes, 0.10 millimeters thick. That is ten times thicker than 0.01 mm. That means that if an alignment could be done to 0.01 mm it is achieving a setting that is one tenth as thick as our copy paper. That&#146;s why it can&#146;t be done.

Every Certified BMW Technician understands that when a wheel is off alignment by just 0.08 of a centimetre,…

0.08 centimeters is a far, far cry from 0.01 mm. 0.08 cm, for us guys here in the states, is just a tad over 3/16 of an inch. All of us can measure 3/16 of an inch with any ruler we have lying around the house. So, a BMW Technician, or any alignment guy, that "understands" why being out of alignment by 3/16 of and inch is detrimental to tire wear does not impress me. He better be able to understand that or he needs whacked with his alignment wrench.

jmonroe

roadburner

Wow, you are getting hosed on the alignment and the wiper blades...

roadburner

I noticed in a bmw ad a little while ago they said bmw dealers had a special on alignments. They said bring the car to your bmw dealer because the camber has to be within a 100th of a mm or something like that. They made it sound like if you take it to an indie, they would ruin your car.

I call BS. Any good shop can align a BMW; a BMW requires a little different preparation, but a shop that knows them will have no problem.

roadburner

2009 BMW 328i: 28,325
2007 Mazdaspeed 3:108,522
2004 BMW X3 2.5: 142,241
1999 Jeep Wrangler:110,362
1995 BMW 318ti: 134,304
1975 BMW 2002A: 200,630

js06gv

2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6: 39K miles
2005 Chevy Avalanche LT: 51.5K miles
2007 Hyundai Santa Fe Ltd: 56.5K miles
2011 Ford Mustang GT: 23.2K miles
2008 Crownline 210LS boat (if that counts)

All purchased new except for the T/A, which I picked up 8 months old with just over 6K.

Right now, I have my dads '12 F-150 Lariat at the house for a couple weeks while he's out of town so have been driving that some. Not a Ford truck guy, but I have to say that this one has me thinking about switching camps. I still love the setup of the Avalanche and it rides WAY smoother, but Ford has it in power, interior design and electronics/technology, and room. That thing rivals a limo in the rear seat.

roadburner

Just got back from the BMW Car Club's Oktoberfest event. More to come, but I goy over an hour of seat time in a new M3 with the Competition Package and my son got a ride at Mid-Ohio with Mike Valentine(designer of the original Escort and the Valentine One).
More news when I have a minute.

fezo

I don't think Fezo gives charitable receipts.

Yeah, but I'd take that car! Heck a Civic with a lot of life is exactly what I could use to replace one of the kids' cars. I'd actually pay for one. Not pay a fair price, but still....

dino001

.08 cm, for us guys here in the states, is just a tad over 3/16 of an inch

Correction: 1 cm=1/2.54", so 0.08 cm = 0.08/2.54 = 0.0315" = 1/32", about 1/6th of your number. It cannot be measured by a simple ruler, but simple thickness gauge would do, if it's a gap.

bwia

I don't think Fezo gives charitable receipts.

Speaking of receipts. I just received a refund check from Lowes for $0.01. Yes, one cent. I looked at the envelope and it cost Lowes $0.37 to mail the check. Upon depositing the check the bank teller looked at me with disdain, muttering under her breath how cheap I was. She showed the check to the other tellers who were giggling as I walked out in embarrassment.

As a wise person once said, a penny saved is a penny earned.

driver100

any alignment guy, that "understands" why being out of alignment by 3/16 of and inch is detrimental to tire wear does not impress me.

Thanks for the excellent explanation of what 100th of a mm really is. All I know is when I read the ad, probably about 4 months ago, it kind of scared me into thinking when I do need an alignment I better go to a bmw dealer who knows what he is doing. I just used numbers that popped into my head.

However, I learned or at least was reminded of a very important thing after reading your reply. Manufacturers can try to scare you easily, and you have to protect yourself from claims.....you have to find answers and do it all yourself, and never trust their word on anything.

oldfarmer50

"...maybe Mike could lease the Passat..."

Or he could BUY this famous car for a lot less.

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/cto/3276796400.html

driver100

Any good shop can align a BMW; a BMW requires a little different preparation, but a shop that knows them will have no problem

Good to know! Like I said, the ad is made to scare you into getting your car done at BMW. It's good to have this kind of information.........thanx.

driver100

Or he could BUY this famous car for a lot less.


Anyone who thinks Anaconda was a blockbuster cannot be believed.

jmonroe

Correction: 1 cm=1/2.54",

It cannot be measured by a simple ruler

Thanks for posting that correction.

After I posted I was going to look at my post again because as I got to thinking about what I said I thought I said it wrong. As I was about to look at my post, a neighbor came to the door and wanted me to listen to his car that was in my driveway. By the time I got back to the post I saw where you corrected me.

Thanks again. 1/32" is correct not 3/16". But, I can guesstimate 1/32" on my rulers when I have to. So, do I get partial credit?

FWIW, my neighbor&#146;s noise was a belt. I looked at it but it looked good, no checks or cracks. So I did an old mechanics fix. I held a dry bar of soap to it and the noise went away. I didn&#146;t even charge him.

jmonroe

tjc78

The seller is obviously a Seinfeld fan!

Driver,
Go to You Tube and search Seinfeld Jon Voight. That will make you understand the seller's humor.

Fezo,
It will be very nice to have the car. It's in really nice shape and will always remind me of him. I bought my first car from him as well. (at about 30% of what is was worth)

RB,
Sounds like good times. That M3 must be fuuunnnnnnnnn!!

abacomike

or Mike could BUY this car for a lot less

First of all, I wouldn't buy a new, let alone used, let alone over-used Chrysler "anything"! Secondly, I told everyone what would happen if I parked a car like that in my spot - neighbors would think I died and they would come in "droves" to pay their condolences to my Dad.

Thirdly, you don't want to "excite" the neighbors down here - remember their average age? DECEASED! most of them would be unable to handle that kind of stress without causing serious "ailments"!

Fourthly, a car like that would cause a myriad of "melancholy" attacks and "apoplexy" attacks. They would all come out of their condo units pushing their "walkers" or riding in their "Hoverround chairs" and congregate around the LeBaron convertible and tell each other stories about when they owned a LeBaron and their sexual escapades on the back seat.

To our immediate left, there's this old guy who pushes his "walker" 2" an hour - but in a few hours he gets to his 1990 Camry and tears out of the parking lot.

Downstairs from us, there is a lovely couple - she had a stroke so the husband won't give up his license so they can shop together - but he can't see a thing - he uses the "Braille" method to pull out of his parking spot - TOUCH AND GO! He always backs into the car across from him causing all sorts of damage. Last month, he pulled out and a garbage truck hit him.

Then we have a neighbor on the ground floor who insists on challenging the golf carts he sees on the golf path to a hot rod race with his new battery operated chair. I'll tell you something, these people are dangerous.

Add to these situations the guard rail they put at the guardhouse on both incoming and outgoing lanes to both entrances and exits to our development. One lane is for visitors, but the other lane is for residents. You pull up and a scanner scans a barcode on your left rear side window. But, If you tailgate through the sensor, it doesn't pick up your code and the rail won't go up. Do you think that stops these people from crashing through 20-30 times a day? It got so expensive replacing those rails that they put up RUBBER rails - but those get knocked down too! As you drive in, you see the piles of rubber rails on the right side of the gate just waiting for the next driver to knock it down. I asked a security guard what he thinks of these new rails and he responded, "...you could put up a concrete wall with multicolored flashing lights and they'd still be crashing through time after time. There is just no way of stopping these idiots!"

Then try to drive out of our condo development. There is a traffic light just outside the security house. When the light turns green, you have to blow your horn to get them to move - one actually fell asleep at the wheel - I'll admit, it's a long light, but.........give me a break!

If you think it's easy living in Paradise, WELL IT'S NOT!

oldfarmer50

"...I held a dry bar of soap to it..."

So you're saying the belt was dirty? :confuse:

oldfarmer50

Recently on the Tampa Craigslist I've seen ads that say a car was used as a "condo car". I'm not sure I know what that means. I assume it's a car like driver100's Passat which is used for a few months each year and us then garaged for summer. Am I right? Could there be another meaning?

abacomike

Condo Car
Could there be another meaning?

I think you got the right definition. I can't think of any other possible meaning to the term other than it was parked in a secure location and is in pristine condition.

I would be wary of a car like that even though it might have low miles - remember it probably sat for months each year in the summer sun. Was it broken in properly? Was it used primarily for short hops to the supermarket? Was it well maintained?

driver100

Go to You Tube and search Seinfeld Jon Voight

Yes, that was funny and now I remember that episode...you have a good memory!
Jon Voight's Car

On the same page was 1988 Dodge digital instrument panel;
1988 Dodge digital instrument panel

driver100

If you think it's easy living in Paradise, WELL IT'S NOT!

That was hilarious. I WAS looking forward to coming down to Florida in November, but you reminded me of a lot of the not so good things.

Oh well, it is better than freezing up here.