Stories from the Sales Frontlines

[Deleted User]

I think you're out of luck, Mike. That's a Euro spec Mobil 1 and not the standard stuff you'll find at Wally World. Kind of like Audi/VW and Castrol. You can find Castrol and Mobil 1 synthetics just about everywhere, but the most up-to-date Euro spec versions take a little more hunting.

stickguy

just get a quart of regular Mobil 1. Odds are he won't have the car anyway by the time it goes through a quart.

or, if the low oil light comes on, just stop at the dealer and have them top it up.

isellhondas

Yeah..." euro spec"....what a joke!

Does anyone here REALLY think that oil is one twit better than the non euro stuff?

Good excuse to charge an arm and a leg for it!

abacomike

...one twit better than the euro spec...

I can't answer that - but the oil change "maven" might be able to determine if one is better than the other! *jmonroe - give us the straight dope on "euro" spec oil vs. "North American" spec oil. Is there really enough of an advantage for either one (except price, of course)? Give us your sage-like opinion.

[Deleted User]

As a consumer you can believe what you want. For me, I'll trust the chemical engineers that I worked with in refining the stuff. There's a difference. Are you willing to pay a couple more dollars a quart for that difference? Well, that's up to you. From a manufacturer perspective, if you fail to follow the published maintenance using approved fluids, you're on your own if a related repair is needed. I'll pay the couple of bucks.

abacomike

...or if the oil light comes on...

Yes, they have drums of that oil in the the back of the service shop that pumps the oil right to the mechanics' stalls. They also have nitro fill hoses and oil hoses in the front service greeting area that the service writers use as needed.

The add oil light comes on simultaneously with the warning text message on the NAV screen, so there is ample warning alerts for oil level minimums.

I read that I should expect the engine to use up to .9 qts. Of oil every 1000 miles for the first 3000 miles. They checked the oil this morning, and it is half-way between full and add oil on the dipstick after 635 miles. So I'll check it again next week to see if it needs a quart.

abacomike

I'll pay the couple of bucks

My Mercedes dealer won't charge me for a quart of oil if I need to add oil - I just wanted to keep a quart on hand - but I agree wholeheartedly with you comments - after all you are much more familiar with the differences in the specs than I. Even of I had to pay $5.00 a quart more for the correct/recommended oil, I would because the warranty is dependent on using the correct oil.

Just interesting that you cannot buy this oil at Walmart, Target or any of the auto parts stores. I guess it keeps you going back to your dealer for oil changes.

stickguy

remember what the situation is. Odds are, if the car needs oil, it is going to be getting close to a change interval anyway (unless it is a Vega or early Rabbit, in which case it is Tuesday).

so, you are talking about adding 1 quart to what, 5 in the engine (6 total?) and for just the interval until the next service?

I can't imagine that there is enough of a difference between regular and MB Mobil 1 that such a small amount could do any harm. If anything, it is going to be better than the oil in there with a depleted additives package.

abacomike

so you are adding 1 qt. to what, 5...

Remember, oil changes are every 10,000 miles. If you need to add 3 qts. over the 10,000 miles, that is a significant %-age of the total oil quantity. Besides, we are not talking about hundreds of dollars - just $10 or $20 a year extra for Formula M oil vs. Mobil 1 standard synthetic. Not much to worry about in the whole scheme of things.

[Deleted User]

That's an excellent point. Mike makes a good point about extended intervals if an engine consumes oil, too. If it's just a quart, then the additives would be refreshed, just a little lower in quantity generally than a euro spec, so the biggest change would be throwing in Group III base stock versus Group IV. Will it kill the motor? No. But I am cautious about sticking with recommendations for fluid specs overall. Hondas had problems with non-Honda brake fluid (not sure on new ones), and Dodge had problems with non-spec transmission fluid, and I've owned both. I know I pay a small premium for OEM spec fluid in some cases, but the comfort factor is a reward far greater than that small premium. That's just me. Not advocating it for everyone.

oldfarmer50

"...if you have accounts..."

Ha ha I've come up with a fool-proof method for thwarting all attempts at stealing my money.....I don't have any!

Works great at getting out of paying taxes too.

explorerx4

We went test driving today, actually my wife drove.
I just sat in the passenger seat.
She will be the driver, so I stay out of that part of it.
She drove an Escape and an Edge.
Escape is nice, quiet, and a bit tight.
Edge was great, but quite a bit more money and also immediately comfortable due to the same dash layout as the Explorer.
Wife decided the Edge was too big since we already have the 2011 Explorer.
They didn't have an Escape with the color and equipment she is looking for, but I found one at another dealer.
It just happens to be the same dealer I bought my Explorer from.
To be continued...

abacomike

...I don't have any...

One thing I learned when I was younger and raising a family and trying to send two kids through college - money never buys happiness - and in many cases it delays true happiness like the love of your spouse and the love of your children. I had to work 3 jobs to keep the kids on college, pay the mortgage and the car payments, and vacations were unheard of.

When my wife got breast cancer, it was just the beginning of the end. All the money in the world could not have saved her or brought my family happiness. Money just kept her alive for another year or two, and as I think back on how much she suffered, I would not have tried to prolong her life if I knew what that meant in terms of pain and agony.

No, you might not have money, but you seem happy. That, oldfarmer, is much more important!

abacomike

Edge vs. Explorer

Keep us up to date, Explorer. Sounds like the next installment could be the clincher!

My son drives an Edge - he really likes it. Said he was glad he went with Ford instead of GM. Good car hunting!

explorerx4

A couple of funny observations, at least to me.
The salesman kept trying to down sell us at first.
He asked us what features we were looking for and said a Titanium Escape was what would fit.
Of course, he brings up an SEL, lower trim model, for a test drive.
It could be a good fit, but it wasn't what she wanted to drive.
After that, she drove the Edge Limited. He was still trying to down sell us by saying 2012 left over might be better for us.
My wife asked about the incentives on the Edge and he went back inside to look it up.
When he came back, he had looked us up, and was drooling. but my wife just nicely kicked him in the nuts.
To be continued...

driver100

Money just kept her alive for another year or two, and as I think back on how much she suffered,

Mike, one bit of good from your post, you made me appreciate my wife and family a little than I already do today.

Thanx,
Driver

driver100

I would have guessed 10W-30, especially in the warmer climates, but he said 5W-40 is used throughout the U.S.

You told me to get oil changed more frequently and at least once a year because fresh oil was so impotant, and now you want to cheap out $2 or $3 a quart by buying oil at Wally Mart?

I bought 2 quarts of oil for the Audi and 2 for the 535, 1 stays in the trunk, the other is in the garage. All are 5W-30 and they cost $20 at BMW for 2, and $22 at Audi for 2.

I believe I paid $7.50 for oil at a Auto Supply store. $3 isn't a lot to keep your $60k Mercedes running, and to maintain the warranty.

abacomike

...and to maintain the warranty...

Isn't that exactly what I said? Look back a post or two and you will see that I agreed that using the euro spec oil was essential for warranty and that if I needed oil, I would just go to the dealer. They do not sell Mobil 1 "M" 5W-40 in stores anywhere. Only dealers have that grade and weight and euro spec designated oil.

tjc78

Glad I have a lowly American car. It uses good 'ol fashioned from the ground dino oil and doesn't use any between changes!!!!

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Just breaking stones, guys!

Oh, and two weeks till the wedding day! Final guest counts in, final invoices in (OH MY GOSH!!!), seating chart done, and everything is a lock. Final details left and this weekend should finish most if not all of those. Lots of printing of programs, menus and table #s. My Fiance is stressing out, but we are in great shape with all that we already have done.

graphicguy

OK.....I actually went back to skim what I missed.

Mike.....belated congrats. That E350 is a very, very nice car. I know you're a Benz guy. Saw some of your posts about the GS and wondered how long it would stick around. Got the answer.

Craig....figured you were out and about, finished with Edmunds. Glad you're back.

Everyone else.....all of you......you are like an expensive, hand made pair of shoes.....invaluable and comfortable as well. Always love coming back to this thread to visit.

Had a conversation last night with a friend who was asking about MPG on the BMW and the GF's S4. Actually, they're about identical....21-22 MPG is all around driving. 27-28 MPG in highway driving.

When you think about it, these are high performance cars.....getting that kind of MPG....pretty amazing all the way around. Thinking back when I had my Tahoe just a few years ago, and I was "happy" when I got 15 MPG (usually closer to 13-14 MPG).

Fuel efficiency has come a long way, in a relatively short amount of time. Makes me scratch my head about gas prices. Oil demand is flat, worldwide. Alternative propulsion sources are gaining traction (I've seen more Volts in the last 90 days than in the previous year). Oil industry has to be looking into the abyss. What and who is propping up prices?

roadburner

You told me to get oil changed more frequently and at least once a year because fresh oil was so impotant, and now you want to cheap out $2 or $3 a quart by buying oil at Wally Mart?

I bought 2 quarts of oil for the Audi and 2 for the 535, 1 stays in the trunk, the other is in the garage. All are 5W-30 and they cost $20 at BMW for 2, and $22 at Audi for 2.

I've noted this before, but the Mobil 1 0W-40 available at Walmart is an LL-01 approved oil- which is what the N55 in your 5er requires...

jmonroe

J,
Please post your sausage gravy recipe if you don't mind!

I know I’m late getting back to you on this but once again my employer is trying to get their money’s worth. So, I’ve been doing a little extra because they wanted to send me to Spain for a week, maybe longer, but I had to remind them of my no-travel clause. I got out of it by staying busy and having a few conference calls.

When Mrs. jmonroe heard I was going to pass out my sausage gravy/biscuits recipe and that a soon to be newlywed was the one that asked for it she said, “just remind him to eat it after the honeymoon so at least he will be alive to enjoy it”. :sick: OK, that was the disclaimer so now for the killer recipe.

Ingredients:

3- 3/8 inch slices of Bob Evans roll sausage
6 ounces of milk (we only have 1% in the house but I’ll make up for that next)
2 ounces of half and half coffee cream (I always have this on hand for my coffee)
3 heaping teaspoons of corn starch
1 teaspoon of butter (OK, we only have ICBINB lite in the house so I have to go with that but it works)
Lots of fresh ground pepper

Preparing it:

In a 1 quart pot put in milk and corn starch. Stir it until the corn starch is fully dissolved.
In a non-stick skillet, brown sausage while using the front edge of a plastic spatula to break up the sausage into pieces about half the size of your small fingernail. When cooked, drain off the fat (yeah, you better not miss this step). After the sausage has been drained stir the milk/cornstarch a few more times because it will have lumped up a little bit then dump in the sausage pieces.

Cook on medium heat stirring constantly until it boils (it MUST be boiled to thicken the sauce). If the sauce is too thin, dissolve another teaspoon of corn starch, or so, in a little bit of milk and add it until it boils again. Important, if you have to add more corn starch you MUST dissolve it in milk first. You can’t put the dry corn starch directly into the hot sauce or it will give you lumps. Note, after a few times of trying to kill yourself making this you’ll get the feel for the corn starch amount at the beginning without having to add more when you get to this step. Turn the heat down, and then pour in the half/half to get the desired thickness and simmer for about 3 minutes, stirring often.

I prepare mine so it is thicker than how I want to eat it so the half/half gets it to the thickness that I like.

Finally, put in the butter/butter substitute and add the fresh ground pepper to taste and give it a few stirs. Pour it over fork split biscuits and eat. I use store bought buttermilk biscuits (about 8 in a package) that are in the refrigerator case at the grocery store. Cook according to the package directions and let them cool. NO, I don’t eat all 8 of them, only 2 (sometimes 2 1/2 if I think I have enough time to wolf it down before…). I freeze the rest of the biscuits for when I think I can sneak in a breakfast without you know who catching me.

Now that I’m thinking about it our southern poster buddy Richard probably has a recipe or two for this as well. I didn’t have to move to SC for my recipe. I concocted it long before I moved there but I can tell you this, it is very popular in the south as you can imagine and almost everyone has their own family recipe. However, the good ones are pretty much the same. One guy I worked with when I was in SC said his wife added ground red pepper to her brew. Like I said, everyone has a recipe. Now you have mine.

Last warning; enjoy this breakfast after the honeymoon and if you post with your opinion, I’ll know you survived.

jmonroe

isellhondas

I'm just not buying that.

OK, perhaps the "euro formulated" oil is somehow "better" in some small way.

So you really think that will make or break an engine compared to a top quality synthetic. Do you think there will be an extra 5000 miles of engine life?

If I owned one of these exotics I would probably ante up the extra money for the reasons you mentioned. should some malady affect my fussy little euro engine I would hate for them to be able to find an excuse to deny warranty coverage.

Our 1998 328i 'Vert runs like new at 150,000 miles and it's never seen synthetics. Just the right grade of Castrol and frequent changes.

tjc78

Thanks J!

I tried making it with flour, maybe that is why I wasn't happy with it. I will be giving it a shot!

driver100

Glad I have a lowly American car. It uses good 'ol fashioned from the ground dino oil and doesn't use any between changes!

Boring!

driver100

Oh, and two weeks till the wedding day! Final guest counts in, final invoices in

Don't worry, if things can go wrong they probably will. But, in the end, it really doesn't matter....it's the years ahead that really matter.

Best wishes.

driver100

I've noted this before, but the Mobil 1 0W-40 available at Walmart is an LL-01 approved oil- which is what the N55 in your 5er requires...

I get 5W-40 at the dealers and it cost about $2.50 more than 10W-30 Mobil 1.
I thought you weren't supposed to mix oild, esp 5W and 10W.

driver100

should some malady affect my fussy little euro engine

High performance engine, perfectly tuned and balanced, uses higher octane so it can run at peak performance and give better gas mileage.

That's why I wouldn't settle for Wally oil just because it is cheaper.

Probably refine it in a sweat shop in China. I'd rather make sure my investment is protected, even if it costs me an extra $10 a year for the good oil.

isellhondas

Just the thought of having to walk into a Wal Mart would probably cause me to use the wrong oil!

driver100

Look back a post or two and you will see that I agreed that using the euro spec o

Yes, you did say that. But, originally you said you were disappointed you couldn't get the oil at Wally World and it seemed you were going to just use the cheaper stuff.

Any way, glad you decided to use the good stuff, wouldn't want you to have to buy a new car again for at least a little while.

abacomike

just the thought of having to walk into a Walmart...

Shopping at Walmart, Target, and even K-Mart do not cause me to have "bad thoughts" unlike your reaction as you stated in your post! We buy most of our food each week at Walmart because of price and quality. We shop at other stores as well, but we have never been disappointed at Walmart!

We were in there today to buy a new hair-dryer and some birthday cards. As usual, they were busy, but we still got out of there in under 10 minutes. The products are outstanding so why pay 20% more at a major grocery chain or hardware store?

You obviously have an aversion to shopping at Walmart, but I certainly do not!

stickguy

They funny thing is, people that keep their cars for a long time (like RB) don't care, but the ones obsessing over it dump them before the warranty runs out anyway. Or in Mike's case, before the first oil change.

abacomike

...or before the first oil change...

Your comments about my cars and oil changes are correct, "historically"! However, this car will see a minimum of 2, maybe even 3, oil changes. That means 2 or 3 years is how long I expect to keep this car. Since I expect more longevity on this car, I want to make sure I maintain it properly! Thus - my concerns about oil.

isellhondas

I don't want to get into a heated discussion on Wal Mart so let's just say the two that I've been in have been disgusting and dirty.

I also do not like their business practices.

If it's all about price for you then I totaly understand.

tjc78

They could put used cooking oil in mine and as long as it lasts 3 years and about 30K miles I'm happier than a pig in slop.

Add me to the Walmart hater list. I dislike going to their stores BUT will go if I need to. There are times their prices are too good to pass up. As for quality they carry most of the same brands as anywhere else so that shouldn't be an issue.

My Fiance stopped at our local "superstore" with the full food market and picked up some rib-eye steaks. I cooked them on the grill and they were excellent, when I asked her where they came from I was surprised to hear "Walmart". I figured she stopped at Wegmans to get them (which by the way is the ultimate food store for foodies!) not sure if you have them in Florida or not. We have two in the area I just wish they were a little closer to my house.

stickguy

I don't normally buy food at Walmart (unless you count cereal). I actually think they are more expensive for some stuff. I used to get cat litter there, but now that the cat is gone, I rarely stop in unless we need something odd that it makes sense to get there. My wife however is doing her best to keep Target in business.

Wegman, I like, but too far for us to use on a regular basis (not good when your ice cream melts before you get home!). My son though at school goes to the local wegmans. Apparently they have a good beer department...

tjc78

As a rule we are Acme shoppers as that is the closest. My Fiance claims they are on the expensive side, though. The only time we buy food at Walmart is when its convenient for us.

We go to the Cherry Hill Wegmans but mostly in the winter, just a little too far for the cold stuff. I don't even want to admit what we spent in there for Christmas Eve dinner last year (the whole Italian 7 fish thing). I wish they would put one in Deptford!

abacomike

I don't want to get into a heated discussion...

If I had 2 dirty and/or poorly maintained stores here, I too would not shop there. The one we shop at is well-maintained and clean. There is another one closer to us that we avoid like the plague for similar reasons to yours. We go to Costco for a few things that are great buys, but we found most of their prices to be much higher than Walmart. We frequent Target as well, and they keep that store immaculate! The pricing at Target is similar to Walmart.

It all depends on whether one feels comfortable shopping there. Target stores down here are the best kept stores of all. We don't do too much shopping at Publix or Winn Dixie because their prices are 20% to 30% higher than anyone else. Price isn't everything - quality is just as important. They opened a Western Beef not too far from us. We love the quality and their cold cut dept. is outstanding. Believe me, I would love to food shop at one store, but when you are spending $500 - $600 a month on food and you can save $50.00 a month shopping "eclectically", you choose the latter.

abacomike

not sure you have them down in Florida...

No, I've never seen one here. Wegman's is not a name I am familiar with!

fezo

Acme? Say it ain't so! I've never dealt with one that wasn't overpriced and undercleaned. Strange thing too - Albertson's owns them and whenever I am in Alberston's territory I like them just fine.

True Acme story - the town I grew up had one anchoring one end of a shopping center. It was no great shakes. One early morning the ballast on one of their fluorescent goes bad and start a little smoldering fire in the roof. Rather than call the fire department they decide they can handle it. Here's the basic story. Because of the wooden truss roof, which the fire department did not want to approve when the building was built in 1957 caused the fire to spread rapidly down the building, hitting one store full of really flammable material (liquor store, paint store....) by the time it hit the other anchor store - a Ben Franklin 5&10 that used to be a W.T. Grants it was this monstrous fireball. The frame of the Acme was still there but the Ben Franklin was completely leveled.

Not saying your local Acme is like this but the nearest ones here certainly remind me of it. Sorta like a grocery store built to the sanitary code of a crack house.

jmonroe

Or in Mike's case, before the first oil change.

I still think that if Mike works at it and doesn't run to Walmart so much he can do it before the first tank runs dry. :surprise:

jmonroe

tjc78

Wow, crazy story Fezo. Our Acme is actually really nice, but in some cases over priced. We are getting a new Shoprite down the road (replacing a Pathmark) so that will give us another choice.

robr2

I too am Wal-Mart averse. The two near me are OK but you can tell they practice "demographic" pricing. The one in a less affluent town charges about 10% less on some items that the one in a more affluent town. I did go a new Super Center over the Memorial Day weekend in Maine. I had forgotten my flip flops and figured I could get a cheap pair there. $2.00 for the pair and they lasted the weekend. I did pick up a few groceries but that was just for convenience. The pricing IMHO wasn't anything special.

They are building a Wegmans in my town and it's scheduled to open spring 2013. All the upstate NY folk who moved to Boston are salivating. It's about a mile from an H Mart that brings folks from all over. It's going to be a nightmare over at that end of town on the weekends.

abacomike

if Mike works hard at it...

Who asked for your 2 cents worth? I did , *jmonroe, I did! Back 20 or so posts, I asked for the oil change "Mavin" to give us his opinion on oil quality and change frequency and all you did was post a recipe for early death from cholesterol! Now you post a comment about how hard I work!

We're all waiting on pins and needles for your response to that post! So, GIVE IT TO US! instead of giving me the business!!!

abacomike

The owner of Earl Stewart Toyota of North Palm Beach (Earl Stewart, of course) has been running frequent advertisements on local TV about "Dealer Fees" in the State of Florida. He states that a dealer fees is is nothing more than "added" profit for the dealer, $500 - $1000. That many people don't even realize they are paing it because it is hidden by language such as "dealer prep" or "administrative" fees. He further states that most States in the country have outlawed dealer fees but that it is still legal here in the State of Florida. The commercial runs about 30 seconds and he reiterates that at Earl Stewart Toyota you will never pay a dealer fee!

This is the first time I have ever seen a commercial attacking dealer fees and the first time I've ever seen a dealer "refuse" to charge a dealer fee. Gutsy move on his part, to say the least, but there is still the other side of the coin - if you don't charge dealer fees you have to make up the loss in profit on a car by raising the gross selling price. But he may realize an increase in sales in the short-run because North Palm Beach is a very small community just south of Jupiter.

Let's assume someone comes to his dealership from a Palm Beach Dealer with a price on a new Camry of $22,500 before taxes, tags, fees, etc. let's further assume that price is $200 below invoice. So, one would assume he would meet that price in order to compete, but he has no way of getting to invoice, let alone making a profit since he does not charge a dealer fee. I wonder how long he will run these commercials and manage to compete with the other Toyota dealers by matching their price.

My bet is that he will compete by beating the bottom line, out the door price of other dealers - but that won't satisfy those customers who expect him to save them the full dealer fee. I wonder how long he will remain in business trying to fight those slimy Florida Dealers who believe in dealer fees. This should be interesting.

stickguy

we hate Acme. Lousy produce, iffy meat, and expensive.

even though Acme is a little more convenient, we go to Shop Rite instead.

Not sure which Acme you would go to down south there, but some are nicer than others (and outs physically is not too bad, since they recently spruced it up).

Philly area is kind of quaint. Mostly people that have roots here, and they are very loyal to "their" stores (seems to be rooted in which part of Philly you migrated from, along with which shore town you go "down the shore" to!)

stickguy

they can call it anything they want, but the bottom line is going to come out the same.

oldfarmer50

"...all the upstate NY folks...are salivating..."

You must be talking about the Red Sox fans who were driven across the border. The rest of us snobs are just fine with Trader Joe's if we want to pay twice as much for organic tofu and bean sprouts. :P

oldfarmer50

"...that most people don't realize they're paying..."

Are people really that clueless? The Tampa CL dealer car ads aren't real clear on dealer fees for used cars but every once and awhile one will mention "no dealer fees". I guess that means something to the locals.

No automatic warranties, $500 dealer fees, boy, is Florida really such a snake pit?

explorerx4

After work today, my wife and I went up to the dealer where I bought my Explorer because they have an Escape equipped exactly like she wants it and in her favorite color combo, black/black.
It was raining like crazy, but we looked at the 3 black examples on the lot.
After confirming which one was the one she was interested in, I turned to walk into the showroom.
She walked around the other side of the vehicle and said 'I wonder what this writing is on the windows?'
It read 'R/R Half Shaft'. Also 'Unit OK' and a yellow X on another window.
I told her 'I think we better keep looking.'