Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,620
    edited April 2013
    I was told that the mailman (or mail person) is referred to as a "Postie". Is that really the case?

    Yes it is, particularly in Quebec, but elsewhere in Canada as well, mostly in the west.

    The Canadian postal service is a living monument to what public worker unions can do for (or to) a country. Back in the '70s & early '80s there were a number of post office shutdowns lasting up to 6 weeks that caused really major issues to the commerce of the country. People were using whatever means necessary to get mail to the U.S., thence across the country and back into Canada. Lovely.

    It appears that the U.S. public worker unions are beginning to cause similar issues down here as well, but having the mail shut off (this was decades before there was any other way to move correspondence) for a month or so will certainly give one a point of view regarding such things. Not that bankrupting entire cities or states won't do the same, but there are only a few examples of that. . .so far.

    Sooner or later they run out of other peoples' money.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    edited April 2013
    I think the most of the difference is due to added weight and friction losses in AWD and automatic transmission. The are higher losses in hydrokinetic transmission (torque converter) in AT vs. friction-slip clutch in manual.

    I checked top gear ratios: 328i wagon MT: 0.85x3.23 = 2.7455, 328xi sedan AT 0.67*3.91 = 2.6197, so yours is actually lower. I checked also drag coefficients- theres wasn't perfect info, but sources show 0.3 to 0.32 for both. It is likely they are close. I think it's the weight and the AT friction losses. I have sports package in mine (different suspension, staggered size wheels, summer tires), which probably bites a little into the mpg number.

    My current average fuel economy is 25 mpg. It went up recently, but it may be due to lower temperatures (less AC), so I have to wait until summer to see if it's permanent improvement over the first year. It also is majority highway commuting.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    It appears that the U.S. public worker unions are beginning to cause similar issues down here as well...

    The biggest issue facing the USPS is the requirement that they pre-fund pensions - 70 years in advance. They have to fund pensions today of postal workers that have yet to be born.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited April 2013
    Dino001 - I agree with your thoughts. How can a turbo six get the same city mileage as a turbo 4? I'm betting the start/stop has something to do with it for the EPA testing, but in real world the four will achieve better mileage.

    Driver - hold tight for the Audi review. That's after the MB post :shades:

    nyccarguy - could not agree more about that turbo 4. What a great engine. Good fuel economy and shocking performance. I'd choose it for my own purposes, plus I imagine with two fewer cylinders in the same engine bay that it's easier to work on than the six.
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,388
    edited April 2013
    The Canadian postal service is a living monument to what public worker unions can do for (or to) a country.

    My question is, "why is it that the people in the U.S. can't live without Saturday mail delivery?" I fail to understand why the Federal Government must spend 6 or 7 billion dollars a year, if not more, to deliver junk mail 6 days a week instead of 5 days a week? 90% of my mail is junk. I pay all my credit card bills electronically and my bank statements are sent to me electronically. My phone and cable/Internet bills are automatically charged to my credit cards.

    If we can save 6, 7, 8, or 10 billion dollars a year, why not limit mail delivery to 5 days a week? Most commercial and service businesses are closed on Saturday so the postal service doesn't schedule deliveries to these companies because there is no one there to accept the mail or packages. If most of us have learned to tighten our belts, why can't the United States Government? I'll tell you why - they don't want to cut expenditures which would result in fewer jobs. The labor unions have put so much pressure on the congress and the executive branch that they are fearful of repercussions.

    2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Mike - note my response above yours.

    BTW - the postal service is a self supporting enterprise. It doesn't receive funding from the federal government in terms of the budget.
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,388
    edited April 2013
    BTW - the postal service is a self supporting enterprise. It doesn't receive funding from the federal government in terms of the budget.

    If it is self supporting, why has the postal service missed many payments to the federal government for employee pensions which Congress has had to "eat" and assume the cost of? The postal service has been losing money for years which is made up by congressional bailouts. This amounts to billions of dollars every year.

    You are correct - they are supposed to be self supporting, but in reality they are not.

    2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger

  • Next up on the shopping list was visiting the MB dealer. I learned something new about my dad that day, which was that he’s a MB fan. My entire life he’s been all about American brands, but I could see the anticipation in him when we went to the local MB dealership. Before stepping foot into the place he was expecting to be impressed.

    By all appearances the dealership was in the process of clearing out the 2013 models in anticipation of the 2014s arriving soon, so only a few C class and E class vehicles were in stock along with the usual compliment of SUVs. Based on our 3 series drive I first navigated him to a C class while waiting for a sales rep to find us. My dad gave a cursory overview of the C and then promptly dismissed it.

    Something about the smaller size and styling turned him off, so a test drive wasn’t even in order, and looking back I think he was looking forward to seeing the E class. There wasn’t an E350 outside, so we ventured into the salesroom to see what they had, and luck smiled on us in the form of a station wagon in Luxury trim. Which my dad hated.

    This was the second thing I learned that day about my dad. He’ll never consider a wagon. No worries, I informed him, we’re just trying to get him in the driver’s seat to learn if a test drive is worthwhile. So, we sat in the wagon in the showroom when one of the salesmen finally realized we were serious and came to help. My dad liked the size and let the salesman know we’d appreciate a road test.

    Well, as it turns out, only the wagon was available, so the salesman kindly pulled it out into the lot for a closer inspection and test drive. My dad didn’t mind the wagon for such purposes, but he made it very clear he didn’t share my enthusiasm for wagons. :)

    Internally I was a little conflicted that he liked the size of the E despite having just test driven the smaller 3 series and X3, and not the 5, but I didn’t want to interfere with the process of him finding his heart’s desire, so I kept my thoughts to myself.

    The next surprise of the day was my dad’s disappointment in the E. That’s when I figured out how much he was anticipating a good experience. While the salesman went to photocopy our driver’s licenses, we checked out the interior in the sunlight, and my dad asked if it was the entry level version. “No, this is luxury version, dad.” The E is a very, VERY nice vehicle and I can understand the customer loyalty attached to it, but something about it didn’t speak to my dad.

    Still, we took it out for a drive to see if his first impression stayed the same on the road. Not so. The E is a nice driver. Solid, quiet on the road, chock full of technology including a seat massager. The motor was powerful though not as exciting as a BMW turbo kicking into its torque curve on a lightweight chassis. It growled nicely at full throttle and pulled the heavy sedan with authority at the cost of a few mpg over the more efficient BMWs.

    After a 30-minute drive we both came to the conclusion the E was the most stately of the three we had looked at thus far. I think we referred to it as a tank at one point. Styling is conservative and rich. The vehicle isolates the driver from road noise, road imperfections, and engine noise/vibration. It’s a terrific cruiser. Around corners the differences between the 3 and the E were apparent with more body roll and a heavier feel, which makes sense given the different target markets and softer road dampening from the E.

    We talked with the salesman about the pending 2014s arriving on the lot, and he agreed to call us when the first ones arrived. He tried to minimize the changes in hopes of us taking that last 2013s that were also arriving soon, stating he could save us thousands, but my dad is more interested in seeing the next version than get a bargain.

    I was starting to hone in on what my dad was looking for in the next vehicle, which was dramatically different than we started the day thinking. Sedan. No coupe, no convertible, no SUV. Powerful motor. Luxury interior with all the latest advancements. Auto tranny. Sporty handling with minimal road noise intrusion. RWD preferred.

    So, with that learned, we were off to our third visit of the day, Audi, which will be another write up.
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,388
    edited April 2013
    Powerful motor. Luxury interior with all the latest advancements. Auto tranny. Sporty handling with minimal road noise intrusion. RWD preferred.

    You drove a luxury model. You need to drive the sport model! They are totally different in terms of handling, cruising and cornering. Even the interiors are different. Before you settle on a car, I strongly suggest going to another dealer and driving the SPORT SEDAN as opposed to the LUXURY SEDAN. Tires and wheels are different as well (18" as opposed to 17"), and different suspensions and, on the 2014's, a totally different look from the Luxury Model.

    IMHO, he test drove the wrong car based upon his specifications desired above.

    2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,378
    But that new car smell is so intoxicating that I can't ever imagine buying a used car.

    Well, my CPO E90 3er smells new enough- although I do regret not spending a few thousand more $$$ so that I could be truly intoxicated by the smell of a new Camry, Fusion, or Malibu... :P

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Driver - hold tight for the Audi review. That's after the MB post

    Sounds good, I can hardly wait.

    The turbo 4 is amazing, but there is something about the 335 which makes it a much better performing car....I would estimate mileage will be about 10% less..........but, a small price to pay for a car which will bring you a lot more enjoyment driving........however, it depends on how important gas mileage and original cost are.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    The next surprise of the day was my dad’s disappointment in the E.

    Another great review and so well written. I would say my impressions of the Mercedes would be the same.

    Now, I think what Mike says could make sense, the Sport model could be quite different.

    I heard this and I believe it in some ways, Mercedes strong point is luxury, BMW is performance and handling, Audi falls in between and is a blend of both.

    This is getting good!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,535
    Another excellent review by tyguy. I can't wait to hear what you think of Audi. It is hard to like the way any other vehicle drives after getting behind the wheel of a BMW.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    Fantastic write up on the new 3 series.

    Yes, I agree this was a well written piece. I did not particularly have an interest in the BMW 328i but after reading your piece I was moved to read more and watch videos about it.

    Compared to an article on the 328i in the May issue of Automobile Magazine your contribution was so much more informative and well written. Kudos, and keep us updated when a purchase is consummated.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited April 2013
    If it is self supporting, why has the postal service missed many payments to the federal government for employee pensions which Congress has had to "eat" and assume the cost of? The postal service has been losing money for years which is made up by congressional bailouts. This amounts to billions of dollars every year.

    Mike - sorry to say but you are wrong here.

    The USPS has not relied on government funding since 1982. It receives government funding only to cover the costs of mailing voter information to disabled and overseas American. It generated over $600 million in profits between 2007 and 2010. When it has had shortfalls, it borrows from the Treasury - it's not a bailout. In 2012, it reached it's credit limit which is only $15 million.

    In 2006, Congress mandated that the USPS pre-fund it's retirement obligations 75 years in advance by 2015. That costs the USPS $5 billion a year. BTW, the USPS is the only entity in the United States - public, quasi-public or private - that is required to do so.

    2012 was the first year the USPS defaulted on payments. Congress refunded to the USPS $11 billion in over payments to the federal pension system. The leadership at the USPS has asked Congress to be released from that onerous obligation and for permission to end Saturday delivery, renegotiate contracts and close smaller post offices. For far too long, Congress has said no. Representatives and Senators with rural constituents are fighting reduction in service due to the NIMBY concerns.

    The USPS is the only "business" in the United States that is run with Congressional oversight. They can't raise prices or close unprofitable operations without the permission of Congress.

    I'm no USPS apologist. There are problems within the USPS but leadership is trying to do something about it.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    The USPS has not relied on government funding since 1982.

    I am a little confused. What is this story all about:

    Postal Service Loses $1.3 Billion In Last Three Months Of 2012

    (Attaches story to news alert corrected to show period is fiscal, not calendar, Q1)

    WASHINGTON, Feb 8 (Reuters) - The U.S. Postal Service lost $1.3 billion in the October to December quarter, an official said on Friday, days after the beleaguered mail agency announced plans to cut back on Saturday delivery to save money.

    The Postal Service lost $3.3 billion in the same period a year earlier.

    The mail service has been grappling with tumbling mail volumes as Americans communicate more online and has struggled under the weight of massive required payments for future retiree health benefits.

    The Postal Service defaulted twice last year on required payments to the federal government and lost almost $16 billion during the fiscal year.

    Full Story: Huffington Post USPS loses $16Billion

    Did I miss something here about how they are not losing money? If they don't get government funding then how do they operate at a loss every year. I wish my business could do that.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    edited April 2013
    There is no light at the end of the tunnel for the US Postal Service. Here are the grim statistics:
    Total liabilities at December 31, 2012, $59 billion; total assets, $23 billion; Accumulated Deficit $(36) billion. In other words, the USPS is technically bankrupt.

    For 2013, operating losses are estimated to be $2.0 billion Vs $2.4 in 2012. If the estimated pre-funded expenditures for retiree health benefits payments of $5.6 billion are thrown, the loss balloons to $7.6 billion (aren’t USPS workers covered by Medicare?)
    Mail volume is expected to decrease by 4.2%, and even faster for first class mail at 6.1% due to electronic mail and electronic banking.
    Pessimistic predictions: 1.7% GDP growth for 2013 vs 2.2% in 2012

    This begs the question: do we still need the post office? Yes for cheap Money Order transactions cost; otherwise, No!
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    do we still need the post office? Yes for cheap Money Order transactions cost; otherwise, No!

    I believe they deliver things bought from online retailers, such as amazon.com etc. This should be a growing business, but, I am not sure how profitable it is, or how big it can grow.

    Other companies like UPS probably handle the larger more expensive to ship items.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,388
    Postal Service Loses $1.3 Billion In Last Three Months Of 2012

    Every time I say something here on this forum, I get attacked by robr2 for giving false information. I am always wrong in his eyes.

    Thus, I am through!

    2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,135
    edited April 2013
    I do a lot of business with AMAZON. USPS probably delivers 1/2 the orders.

    I believe USPS has a place. I just think they need to change their business model to focus on the realities of today's business climate, however.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    edited April 2013
    Every time I say something here on this forum, I get attacked by robr2 for giving false information. I am always wrong in his eyes.

    Thus, I am through!


    I hope you are not serious. I have been attacked by rob2 as well....I just don't let it get to me. I was surprised at his reply to what you had said, and as I stated in my post I don't know where he was coming from.

    Rob2 has given some excellent input here, but, don't take any individual poster too serious, he only represents a small fraction of the regulars, and the others I am sure would disagree with him. Rob2 has come up with some good info, but I am not sure where he got the info about the post office, unless it is a case of manipulating the financials.

    Please don't go, you are much to valuable to our group, to let one post get to you.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    edited April 2013
    I believe USPS has a place. I just think they need to change their business model to focus on the realities of today's business climate,

    Totally agree, there is a market there, USPS just has to find a way to take advantage of it, while keeping costs under control. It is hard to compete with private enterprise, but they could probably provide a service, and either survive with a profit, or possibly a much smaller loss...but, in some ways, they are an essential service for some things.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    they are an essential service

    USPS is not going away any time soon. They are a part of COG

    (Continuity of Government). They'll still be in business with or

    without a profit long after Kim nukes or Mom nature quakes us.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    USPS is not going away any time soon. They are a part of COG

    (Continuity of Government)


    Glad to hear it, I don't know how we could get along without our 10 to 25% off remove the stickers from the Kohls flyers.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,135
    Mako....driver...excellent points. USPS stays running regardless of natural disaster, or its severity.

    Personally, I still pay my bills via the good old postal service. It's the most secure way to send anything.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    edited April 2013
    There are way too many upper level patronage management positions for USPS to disappear. They will cut deliveries and service with increases in postage fees first. Human beings are wired that way and it isn't just government, big business has shown it's true colors as well. It won't ever change because of 2 things that are in our DNA -- Corruption, greed and seeking power over others. Just be glad we don't live in North Korea.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited April 2013
    Oh, c'mon Mike!

    You are tougher than this. Nobody has taken more insults on these forums than I have and I have never taken my ball and gone home!

    You are an asset and you are needed here.

    The argumentive and nasty posters ALWAYS go away when ignored.

    I have seen a LOT of these people come and go.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,792
    Mike,
    When you first started posting here, I thought you were a troll and I asked Edmunds to do something about it.
    One of the hosts told me to give you a chance and try to be a bit more tolerant with other viewpoints.
    Since then, I enjoyed your posts and think we have learned a bit about each other, and I assume I'm not the only one.
    Take a breath and we will move onto some other topic soon.
    Where the heck is Richard when we need him? I'm not good at this.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I am sure we will go to 5 day delivery, but probably with no lay offs and no cost reductions !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited April 2013
    Every time I say something here on this forum, I get attacked by robr2 for giving false information. I am always wrong in his eyes.

    No Mike - I don't attack you for everything you say. I speak up when I think that someone throws out a statement that I consider wrong.

    You stated that the Post Office has been bailed out by the government for years but give nothing to back up the statement. I try to do my research before making or refuting claims. I also note those in my posts. I don't make blanket statements and I don't get mad when people refute what I have to say.

    Everything I posted is 100% true. Just because it goes against what you posted doesn't make it an attack.

    I used many article to get my points. This one article pretty much has them all in one place:

    www.nbcnews.com/business/postal-service-reports-record-15-9-billion-loss-1C70995- - 54:

    The struggling U.S. Postal Service on Thursday reported an annual loss of a record $15.9 billion

    The financial losses for the fiscal year ending Sept. 30 capped a tumultuous year in which the Postal Service was forced to default for the first time

    Much of the red ink was due to mounting costs for future retiree health benefits, which made up $11.1 billion of the losses. Without that and other related labor expenses, the mail agency sustained an operating loss of $2.4 billion, lower than the previous year.

    Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe said the agency has been able to reduce costs significantly by boosting worker productivity. But he said the mail agency has been hampered by congressional inaction on a postal overhaul bill that would allow it to eliminate Saturday mail delivery and reduce its $5 billion annual payment for future health benefits.

    "We cannot sustain large losses indefinitely. Major defaults are unsettling," said Donahoe, who made clear that the Postal Service would be profitable had Congress acted.

    The Postal Service, an independent agency of government, does not receive tax money for its day-to-day operations but is subject to congressional control.

    The Senate passed a postal bill in April that would have provided financial relief in part by reducing the annual health payments and providing an $11 billion cash infusion, basically a refund of overpayments the Postal Service made to a federal pension fund.

    It remains unclear whether House leadership would take up the postal bill in its lame-duck session, due in part to resistance from rural lawmakers about the impact of closures in their communities.

    Overall, the post office had operating revenue of $65.2 billion in fiscal 2012, down $500 million from the previous year. But expenses climbed to $81 billion, up from $70.6 billion, largely due to the health prepayments.

    The Postal Service is the only government agency required to make such payments.

    The Postal Service, which relies on the sale of stamps and other products rather than taxpayer dollars,

    I believe I posted up very good arguments to refute what you said. If you think I'm wrong, I await a civil reply.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,135
    Frankly.....I feel stamps were always a screaming bargain to deliver something (within size and weight limits...which they should look at as a lower cost service than UPS or FedEx). They could triple the stamp cost and it would still be a bargain (coming from someone who ships a lot).
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Most of their income (about 45 Billion) comes from stamp sales. Just doubling the price should fix their problem.

    The bigger problem, IMO, is government worker unions and their fat retirement programs. Those are untouchable. Stockton CA. just declared bankruptcy, however, none of their present retirees nor any future retirees will be affected at all. Bond holders, other creditors, and tax payers will eat the loss under the proposed plan. These retirement programs will eventually kill all of our cities. Many are already technically bankrupt.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    You stated that the Post Office has been bailed out by the government for years but give nothing to back up the statement. I try to do my research before making or refuting claims

    Robr2, you may be technically correct, but, Mike was making a very general comment. Few of us are experts in every field. Also, there is lots of smoke and mirrors, so I wouldn't be too sure the post office could make a profit, even if it wasn't for the pension/health plans.

    Also, there is a way to make your point without making it into a personal attack. It's just an open forum and exchange of ideas.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    edited April 2013
    Very well put driver. I enjoy robr2's posts because they are usually informative and he mostly has his facts right....but I have seen him in action on other forums and he can be rather blunt. He just needs to be a little more tactful IMO.

    If he sticks around here long enough, and I hope he does, I am sure he will eventually tone it down a bit in order to fit in a little better. Always being right is not very important to most of us here, and in fact, can be a little bit off putting. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • Huh. Impassioned arguments regarding the postal service. Okay, I admit, our other off-topic discussions have been the norm, but this one caught me by surprise. I’d hate to see a regular and valuable poster driven away by an online debate, but these things do happen on forums and people are going to disagree. It’s the nature of forums and being human. As I compose this I’m listening to The Beatles and “Ob-la-di Ob-la -da, Life Goes On” just came on. Wise words for us all. Sometimes we just need to roll with the punches.

    How about a little change in topic and we talk about Audi?

    Continuing a day in the life of car shopping with my dad, our next stop following the Benz experience was the Audi dealership down the street. We parked next to several rows of A4 sedans and perused the selection to get a feel for the style, size, colors. All were locked, so we kept the initial inspection limited to just the exterior.

    First impressions were positive for both of us. Audi really nailed the styling on this latest iteration. They’ve always been a little more conservative in their lines and shapes, which is true today and helps the Audi style age well. The LED headlights are gorgeous with their elongated lower profile side swipe. Both Audi and BMW have adapted well to the new Euro requirements for pedestrian impacts that require more hood-to-engine spacing.

    The gas mileage listed on the stickers for the A4 2.0 Quattro sedans were just okay with 20/30 mileage ratings, the same as a rear drive V6 535 or E350. The front wheel drive A4 posts much better ratings, but that involves a CVT transmission and I was pretty certain my dad wasn’t up to something that different. I appreciate CVTs, but I do recognize they’re not for everyone and my dad is pretty traditionalist when it comes to powertrains. He loves inline motors and stepped (geared) auto transmissions.

    At that point I really wasn’t sure which car to be showing him, the A4 or the A6 given what I had learned earlier about his interests. Like the BMW 3 Series, the A4 has grown into a rather large sedan and I thought it would fit his frame well, but at the same time figured an A6 may be a better fit. There were only two A6 sedans on the lot in the same color and configuration, so not much to go on outside. We wandered inside while looking over all the options in the expansive parking lot. No sales rep as yet had approached us.

    Inside, the dealership struck me as lower grade than BMW or Benz, but I couldn’t tell you why. I was more focused on the cars, but I’d like to visit all the dealerships again and take note of the features that made me feel the way I did.

    The first car we encountered inside was an A4, so my dad hopped in the driver’s seat only to find the seat pulled so far forward he couldn’t get his legs in, and to make it worse, the battery was dead so the powered seats wouldn’t move. On to the next one! There was another A4 at the other end of the showroom, and we found that driver’s seat to be better suited to my dad’s legs, though the battery was also dead and nothing would power up.

    My dad loved the interior. By a noticeable margin it was the best of the bunch we had tested that day. The materials exude high class and quality. You can push, pull, and pinch different panels without the tale-tale crack-snap-pop we heard in the BMWs and Benz. I figured that would be the case. I have several friends with Audi vehicles and all have been top of their class for interior quality.

    The multimedia screen was also a win. It seemed smaller than the BMW, but unlike the 3, the screen is imbedded in the dash to help prevent sunlight from washing it out.

    All touch surfaces were pleasant, the seats comfortable, and like the 3 series, the leg room was comfortable for both front and rear passengers. There were also fewer shiny surfaces to reflect light into our eyes, which seems to be a problem in many vehicles today utilizing chrome trim. I could see my dad really getting into the feel of the A4.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited April 2013
    There was also an A6 in the showroom. Everything I stated about the A4 applies to the A6, but only larger and more plush. The main differences were the multimedia screen, which extends from a hidden slot with electric motors, the steering wheel adjustment is electric rather than manual, and surfaces where even higher quality (carpet, headliner, leather).

    At that point we approached the receptionist and asked for sales assistance, which came in the form of a young man still learning the industry, but who was nevertheless enthusiastic and eager to help (The Beatles “Help!” just came on my stereo, by the way). My dad and I were still debating whether to try the A4 or the A6; we had time, so we decided to try both starting with the A4.

    Our sales rep pulled up in a loaded A4 per our request, stickering around $50,000. When I later priced the A4 Quattro and 328i, I found they’d be within a few hundred dollars of each other spec’d the way my dad would want. The only option missing from the car we were testing that day and the version my dad would want was blind spot monitoring, but otherwise it was spot on.

    The drive was a good experience. Like Driver has mentioned, it’s a nice balance between comfort and performance. The 2.0 turbo motor lacked the punch of the 328i and took a little longer to spool up, but it was more refined with less vibration felt throughout the cabin. It’s not slow, definitely not, but just not as quick as the BMW. The transmission was silky smooth and responsive to pedal movements calling for downshifts. My dad thought it felt more upscale and tad softer than the BMW.

    We spent 30 minutes tooling around town and blasting down the freeway, hitting both smooth and broken pavement, and banking along on/off ramps at high speeds. My dad loved it. Regardless of the road surface the cabin was quiet and refined, and the interior trim pieces never even squeaked. Nice job Audi.

    But my dad made one comment that caught my attention. “This is a terrific car…for the money.” Hmm. For the money. Okay, time to try the A6.

    And so we did. We swapped cars at the dealership with an A6, and it didn’t take me long to realize my dad was at home. It’s bigger, even smoother than the A4, the interior plush, and the power from the supercharged V6 magnificent. The power. Wow. After driving the A4, my dad was surprised twice within the first block when he accidentally whipped our heads back by getting a little heavy on the throttle. He’s a fan of inline sixes, but that V6 motor could definitely change his mind.

    I asked about gas mileage considering the penalty the A6 extends to provide its power, and only then did I realize economy no longer mattered when a motor could respond like the A6. Okay, now we were getting somewhere.

    While punching the throttle at every straight line opportunity, alternately I noticed him driving more conservatively through corners and in traffic. The A6 is a big sedan with a lot of weight, so you’re going to give up 328i prowess. Makes sense. And from what I could see, he didn’t care. We were getting back into his Caddy experience, a big, heavy 4-door sedan with a massive motor. So much for the Fiat 500. :D

    The A6 was loaded up with all the technology he wanted, but lacked a heads-up display like the BMW, and also like the 328i, the multimedia screen isn’t recessed in the dash, so could be washed out by sun. Nevertheless, he was clearly in lust over the A6. On three separate occasions I wrote in my log book his exclamation, “Now, THIS is a nice car.” Three times. He was excited.

    There was one area of discontent, however, and that was road noise. After driving the silent A4, we were shocked to hear the roar of road noise regardless of the surface, and then it struck me, it’s the tires. The stinking tires. And not just for the A6 we were driving, but for the 328i, too. The 328i uses crappy run flats (why, BMW, WHY?!). The A6 we were driving was shod with low profile, aggressive rubber shoehorned on 19” rims. Rubber band comes to mind. With different tires the noise should improve dramatically, and I’m guessing the same could be said for the BMW.

    We ended our drive back at the dealership, and I’m guessing most readers are thinking we went to negotiate pricing. Well, not quite. My dad wants to see the next E350 and try the Sport version since only the Luxury was available for a test drive (spot on Mike). And now that we know his preferences, he wants to try the BMW 535.

    So, this shopping experience is to be continued at a later time. I’m thinking he’ll purchase in the next month, maybe two, depending on when the first E350s become available. It was a fun day and time well spent narrowing down the vehicle class he wants. Plus is was time with my dad and that’s never a waste.
  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    "Before you settle on a car, I strongly suggest going to another dealer and driving the SPORT SEDAN as opposed to the LUXURY SEDAN."

    Mike--

    You know I wrote back to you earlier about Mercedes "Luxury" asking if they weren't all luxury sedans and you pointed out the difference between the sport and luxury models of the E class.

    I think my problem was that the labeling of luxury is confusing to someone less informed about the brand subtleties. After all, Mercedes is a luxury nameplate as compared with, say, a Chevrolet or my pedestrian Mazda. Why wouldn't Mercedes use labels like "comfort" vs. sport. I mean both are technically luxury sedans, it's just a matter of suspension and trim differences (like wheels) and driving dynamics, right? The distinction of luxury vs. sport implies, to me anyway, that one model has a lot fewer creature comforts, but I don't believe from what you have said that that is the case, nor what Mercedes wants to convey.

    Words matter...at least to some of us. Similarly, I take Toyota to task for labeling their highest trim line on may models "Limited". What's limited about them--there are tons on the road? Do they really make fewer than they do of other trim lines? If so, how few constitutes limited? I guess limited sounds less pretentious than top-of-the-line or Bestest. :) It is probably a good tactic for driving up prices. "Why sir, you can see right on the vehicle that it's stamped as limited and you will have to pay a premium to get one, and as you can see the supply is limited so don't delay."

    Gogiboy
  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    Tyguy--

    I'm really enjoying your reviews, but I think it's your last line that really sticks with me...so true. Those kinds of moments are fleeting and should be savored. It's also great that you both seem to be enjoying the experience equally.

    Gogiboy
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    While you wait for the MB, why not check out a Buick LaCrosse. I'd be interested in how it compares to the A6 and E class. I'm very happy with mine but never checked out the euro's because of cost issues both price and maintenance.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    And now that we know his preferences, he wants to try the BMW 535

    First, completely agree about the post office topic....not worth getting excited over.

    Your Dad is very fortunate he has you to share this buying experience with him, and I am sure your thoughts and input are very valuable to him.

    Your evaluations and comments are almost spot on with what I would say, only you can express your thoughts much better. Your reviews are masterpieces.

    Just some brief, wild thoughts;

    In my opinion, Merces and BMW showrooms far outclass Audi. Of course they sell over twice as many cars in the US each, so they can afford splashier showrooms. But, that is one of the things I like about Audi, they are more old fashioned and down to earth.

    Models change slightly in the US and Canada, but, in my wife's A4, the lane change monitor was standard on the Premium Plus model. That is an option I didn't get on the 535, I think it would have cost a few $1000s, but, I would love to have it. That and the back up camera and GPS are necessities, and you will get most of the money back at trade in time....people want those features.

    The things you noticed about the built in GPS on the A4 and the nicer interior are what sold us.

    My 535 is really a larger car than what I prefer, I find a 335 or A4 size car is ideal. However, for comfort and for highway driving, I am glad I got the larger car. It is especially nice if you have passengers. Seems we take other people with us a lot more when we are retired. I prefer driving and most people are ok to let me drive. But, everyone comments on how comfortable the 535 is. Your Dad is smart to go back now that he seems to be going for the larger models and testing the 535. I hear the E-Class is going to be spectacular, and I know some people say the A6 blows away the 535, but, I still like the ergonomics of the 535 more. I find it has large windows, a nice flat hood, controls are easy to use and the GPS isystem are designed for easy use. I would have to try an E and an A6 next time around, but I would choose an A4 over a 335, and possibly a 335, though, I would have to compare those two again.

    Our salesman said, BMW and MB's biggest market is the US, so their cars are marketed more for North America. Audi sells more in Europe, so their cars have a more European flavor. I think that is true.

    Your comments about run flats and sport tires are all true. If weather is a factor I wouldn't get a car with sport tires, because you will have to put snow tires on. With a good all season tire and AWD you I can probably get through a winter fine.

    There's more I could comment on, but, I thoroughly enjoyed your reviews and well thought out comments.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    I think my problem was that the labeling of luxury is confusing to someone less informed about the brand subtleties.

    I think Mercedes has always been associated with luxury. However, they were losing sales to the younger BMW market that stresses the sportiness of their cars.

    Mercedes doesn't want to alienate their core group of buyers, so they still label their cars as luxury models. Then, the models with the emphasis on handling, they call "Sport" models. The problem with "Comfort" is it sounds like a Easy Boy chair....not an image Mercedes wants to promote. Like, here is the "Comfort" model, for those in the last stages of life. ;)

    Limited just sounds like a limited edition. Gives the impression that model is more valuable, without being vulgar......like calling it the "BIG $$$$ Model"

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    While you wait for the MB, why not check out a Buick LaCrosse.

    I'd love to hear that review too, but, I don't think it is going to happen.

    Just a guess, but, no matter how good the LaCrosse might be, if you really want a European car, the Buick just won't be the same.

    There will be a lot of subtle reasons why the Buick just won't do...materials used, the layout of the instruments, overall design, ergonomics, engine sound, performance, handling, and much more.

    Buick makes a fine dependable car, but, it just isn't the same, or people wouldn't pay more for a European car.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited April 2013
    Also, there is a way to make your point without making it into a personal attack. It's just an open forum and exchange of ideas.

    There was no intent of a personal attack. I will admit that I should not have said "you are wrong." It is an open forum but one should expect that people will reply. If I posted something that was a general statement but was incorrect, should I get angry if someone refutes it? If I'm am wrong I am willing to admit it.

    Robr2, you may be technically correct, but, Mike was making a very general comment. Few of us are experts in every field.

    If one is not an expert in a field or willing to back up statements with evidence, they shouldn't say it. I'm not an expert in the financial situation of the USPS but I took the time to research what I said.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    edited April 2013
    I'm not an expert in the financial situation of the USPS but I took the time to research what I said.

    I have read your comments and Mikes comments. Unfortunately, I don't have time to disect them to see who said what. From what I have read the post office loses about $25 million a day...of taxpayers money.
    Fox News

    In your post you said,

    The USPS has not relied on government funding since 1982. It receives government funding only to cover the costs of mailing voter information to disabled and overseas American. It generated over $600 million in profits between 2007 and 2010. When it has had shortfalls, it borrows from the Treasury - it's not a bailout. In 2012, it reached it's credit limit which is only $15 million.

    However, on this CNN site it says;
    This is the third year in a row that the agency has posted a loss; it lost $2.8 billion in fiscal 2008, and $5 billion in 2007. The USPS is a self-supporting government agency that receives no tax dollars. It relies solely on the sale of postage and products and services to generate sales.
    CNN USPS losses

    I know you do research but that CNN report seems to be at odds with what you found out. I am the last person to understand financials...but you have them making a profit in 07 to 10, and CNN says they lost money in those years. Maybe you could explain. BTW...if you do understand financials, maybe you can explain how USPS survives if they rely solely on the sale of stamps and services, but they lose money....someone must be funding them - my guess is the taxpayer.

    It is an open forum but one should expect that people will reply

    But, it isn't a debate with a prize for the winner. It is a friendly exchange of ideas, at least around here. Think of it as a conversation with a friend, hopefully you wouldn't go on the attack in that situation.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,061
    Just a guess, but, no matter how good the LaCrosse might be, if you really want a European car, the Buick just won't be the same.

    I own a LaCrosse and even in top tier trim its no Mercedes. It's FWD, a much cheaper vehicle and not in the same class. The LaCrosse's competition is the Avalon, Azera, Maxima (a little), Taurus, and the Chrysler 300.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    And now that we know his preferences, he wants to try the BMW 535.

    One thing you have to know about the 535 is to test the one with the M Package. This is not the super horsepower version anymore. The M package gives you better seats etc., but, most important, you can change the car from Eco, to Comfort, to Sport and to Super Sport with one button. Make sure your Dad drives the car in "Comfort" and in "Sport" mode to see the difference.

    "Sport" mode lowers the car, gears change faster, steering is tighter. If you know all this sorry to be saying it, but, that is something most people may not be aware of. I was not overly impressed with the first 535 and especially the 528 I drove, but, the salesman realized the problem, he put me into the M Package model and I was sold on it.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    I own a LaCrosse and even in top tier trim its no Mercedes. It's FWD, a much cheaper vehicle and not in the same class.

    Good info tjc, you put my thoughts into real life experience.

    When I was out today I thought of an analogy.

    If you love wearing Jockey underwear you just won't be satisfied buying Fruit of the Loom, even if it is half the price. ;)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    My LaCrosse has AWD. I know that the gap between the Buick and the euros is significant, I'm not sure everyone would appreciate it. Expectations and driving styles play a part. There is so much engineering and technology built into those upper tier cars that would likely be wasted on me. The Buick is dead quiet on the road, has decent power, wonderful seats and a nice look. If I was 20 years younger, I probably would feel differently. Problem was, 20 years ago I couldn't have afforded a Mercedes or BMW. Now that I can, going upscale to a drivers car doesn't interest me. I like the 4 year warranty and $39 oil changes and tire rotations as well. Maybe I'll go check out the euros someday to see what I'm missing and if I even care.
  • I appreciate the positive feedback from everyone, and thanks for taking the time to read through the test drive saga. Based on what I saw at the Audi dealership, I think you made a great choice in cars, Driver.

    Jayrider mentioned a Buick, which my dad has owned in the past and may be willing to consider, but I think if any domestic has a shot at his purchase dollars it would be Cadillac. The ATS is too small, but the upcoming CTS looks to be something special. I think the key is timing. The new CTS doesn't arrive until fall and he may not be willing to wait. Or maybe he is :)

    I need to call him, anyway, so I think I'll mention it.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Problem was, 20 years ago I couldn't have afforded a Mercedes or BMW.

    You are absolutely right jayrider....it depends on how important these things are to you.

    I know the basic stations on the TV from memory, so I end up watching most programs in old-fashioned low definition. Occassionally I remember I have HD so I try to find the right channel for HD. For the most part, unless I am watching something really special, I don't care whether my TV is in low or Hi def.

    I was similar to you in that I owned a 92 Chev Cavalier, then a 95 and a 2000 Jeep. I was going to get another Jeep but my wife prefers European cars so I tried a 2006 BMW X3. It was a totally new and different experience for me. I like driving any car, but, the X3 took driving to a new level.

    Your Buick is a good looking well made car and if it suits you go for it. Just for the fun of it though, when you do go car shopping next time, try a European car.......you may notice a difference.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

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