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Really good recap. Thank you.
Jeep has been doing a really good job with their interiors. High $40's and even mid $50s is normal for the higher end trims.
I know many think that Acura has lost their way. But, I gotta say, the new RLX had one of the nicest interiors out of any car at the show, save for maybe the Audi A6. I can't for the life of me understand why the RLX hasn't been more of a hit for Acura? Is it because of the all LED lighting? I thought that was the current trend? It had the most comfortable seats, of any car at the show, regardless of price. It has some of the highest quality materials and looks to be put together as well as anything I've seen. Is it because it's FWD in base form?
Again, my dealer was there and we were talking. He said $10K off any of his RLXs in stock (he said he had 7 or 8). That makes the real world price low $40s to $50K, I would look at one very seriously if in the market.
IF the new upcoming TLX ends up anywhere near as nice as the RLX, with more sports thrown in, it will be at the top of my shopping list.
I know there are Infiniti fans who are around here. But, in my very humble opinion, they have seriously lost their chops. As much as I had read about how nice the Q50 was, it left me cold. As did the M37 or their SUVs. What are they thinking? The only vehicle they had theta I found mildly interesting was the Q50 hybrid. But, only if it could be had at a substantial discount for it's $50K sticker. I'd have to really LOCE the way it drove for me to even consider it, then.
Everything else was same 'ole-same'ole. Fiat has a newer, bigger 500. People seem to like it and the 500 convertible. Not my cup of tea.
Why in the world is SMART still being sold here? It hasn't changed since introduced. It was poor to start with, and years later, it hasn't changed. Are they selling these things uber cheep these days?
Saw the new Chrysler 200. They should do themselves a favor. Lop off 18 inches off the 300 and throw in a hemi for good measure. Save some engineering time and call it the new 200. Instant hit.
Dodge-that Dart is a pretty sweet little car for the money (under $20K). Challenger and Charger are in dire need of a refresh. RAM truck is pretty darn nice.
Toyota...well....they're Toyota. Nothing really different about them. That's all I can think of to say about their vehicles.
Lincolns-at least on the outside, are some pretty sharp cars. Too bad that's as far as they went. Ford still has some issues with that brand.
Just helped the current GF shop for an Accord. The new ones are everywhere. I've driven hers. For less than $30K, I don't know that you can buy a better car. Civic upgrade did wonders for that car.
The Lexus cars have a serious case of the "uglies" with their new grills. Sad in the IS350 F. It might very well drive great. But dang.....it looks like the current design team may have been smoking lots of that herb that is still illegal in most states. I stared at the grill of the IS for about 5 minutes trying to figure out if there was any way to make it look just "OK". I couldn't do it.
I think that covers it.
Thanks for the nice words driver........:)
There just aren't very many new cars in the under-$30k segment that interest me. At all. The only cars that I would seriously consider owning would be the Abarth 500, Fiesta ST, and the upcoming Mk7 GTI Performance Pack. If the BRZ had @100 more bhp it would be on the list as well. Ditto for the Mazda 3 if you could get a 2.5 with three pedals.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Mike - if it's any consolation (and I know it isn't) you've lost more money than I've ever had at one time. That does suck.
Never co-sign a loan. It can only negatively impact your credit rating and it does nothing for the person you're cosigning for. If my daughter asks for a cosigner when the Accord finally dies (I think I'll die before it does) I'll tell her to eat the higher interest rate that will go with her lack of a credit rating. Mine took a dive (it's still just fine) for something dumb I did. It's only temporary.
gg - yeah, Caddy is on a roll. I never expected to see me type those words. If I had the money I'd buy almost anything in their lineup.
A long time ago I was pushing Top Tier gasoline and someone posted on how Costco had a thing saying they were working on getting certified. Well, forget that. I've had three CELs go off (twice on one car and once on another). Each time it was bad gas. I can trace it back to the local Costco. I'll alert them to it but locally it'll be Exxon or Shell for me. BTW - as has been mentioned here before the best sulution to a dirty tank of gas, and something I now do pretty much at every oil change is a bottle of Techron. Not STP gas treatment, not any other thing they may try to sell you.. Techron.
Roadburner is the guy that started me on this but several gearhead friends have confirmed that as has personal experience.
I tnink I've given up on hearing from Richard but have an excellent alternate plan though it will cost a little but something I've always wanted to do..
You know that line item on every car invoice for "advertising?" That's for the regional advertising done by local dealer groups - Here it's New England insert brand here. That money is also used to pay for these local shows.
I'm guessing as the show promoters charge more and more for booth space and dealers have to provide sales staff for what is really a bunch of tire kickers, it's more effective to spend that association money of local incentives, advertising, special editions, et al.
That Cincinnati show charges $3.50 per square foot - figure a 50x50 booth which would be appropriate for a car company is almost $9K. Pay shipping (in and out), installation/dismantling of the booth (which they probably rent from the manufacturer) by a local crew, the infamous "drayage" charges and booth support staff and I could see a local dealer association spending $50K.
specials at Denny's/Shoney's.
Makes me want to rethink my plans to moved down among your geezers in Florida.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
@fezo, I think the convo about your trip got going in 2 threads. I do know he responded here a few days back. IIRC, he would love to see you, but that may be when he will be in Fla. with his BIL. You 2 just need to email each other.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Understood. I wear a $1200 designer watch because my wife got it for me as a gift, and I really like the way it fits. Kind of like a bmw or Audi...it feels like it is part of me, because it is designed right. I once bought a beautiful looking $50 watch. It kept pinching my skin and it didn't really fit nicely. It was hard to get on and off, I actually hated wearing it. Basically, watches all just keep time though - a $50 watch will keep the same time as a $5k watch. For me the status means nothing - it is how it feels and looks to me that matter.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That was the impression I got from the BMW staff at the last auto show I attended. All the cars were locked and no amount of asking would convince the rep to let me sit in a 1 series to see if it would accommodate my 6'2" frame. If I have to wear a tuxedo to take a test drive maybe it's not the car for me.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
We'll see. I have to see if I have his current email...
Makes me want to rethink my plans to moved down among your geezers in Florida.
That is so true. We have a Denny's and a Bob Evans just down the street and those lots are full of older Lincolns, Cadillacs, Grand Marquis (I think because you get a lot of car for the buck) and most have cloth roofs. The lot is full at breakfast time, lunch, and dinner, up until 7 pm and then they all disappear.
I noticed people either drive extra fast - the younger ones because they don't have much time, and the older ones drive extra slow. Sometimes it is painful watching them make a right turn, as they come practically to a stop, and then navigate around the corner like they are driving an 18 wheeler. They drive like they have nothing better to do all day - mainly because they don't!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Union run trade shows, is probably the closet thing to legal extortion in the US. I headed up the logistics for a 40x40 booth for our company at a show in LA and the cost got past 50k fast. Amazing that it cost more money to move the pallets a few hundred feet from the loading dock to the booth and back than it did to move a trailer across the country.... I could go on and on. I'm so happy we don't do that show any longer.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
and the Philly show is something like 400,000 SF in the convention center. And that convention center is notorious for having some of the worst work rules and costs in the nation (to the point that many shows/conventions refuse to even consider using the Philly center, which is actually very nice space)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Yes, I've heard a few BMW execs rant about costs at the big shows- and how you can't even plug something into a 120 volt outlet. You have to find a qualified Union Electrician to perform that highly technical procedure,
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I suspect that the reps were not being arrogant; rather, they were trying to protect the cars. You would treat the vehicles with respect, but ask isellhondas about his experiences at auto shows...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
It was painful watching two guys loafing along building up counters that I could have done in half the time myself.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Makes me wonder if that comment is like a bad penny that just keeps coming up.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Every time I go to the Chicago Auto show I swear I end up saying something like "wait, there is more stuff over there." I usually feel beat after attending the show.
Didn't go this year but will likely go next year.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think it is over for good....hopefully! But, "time" will tell, so to speak. Speaking of pennies....we eliminated them in Canada. They cost more to produce than they are worth. In stores they round up or down to the nearest nickel.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I've worked and set up trade shows all over the country. Whether union or not - it's an extortion ring. I have surprised at how inefficient some non union locations are. I recall arriving at my booth space in Orlando to find pallets and crates for other exhibitors and having to wait 12 hours for the non union labor to clear it out and get me my crates. Nothing like sitting in a convention hall all day with absolutely nothing to do.
I've worked shows all over the country and have never needed to pay anyone to plug in anything - even in Chicago. If one has an electrical intensive booth, then the electricians do it.
Many times the exorbitant costs of up trade shows is due to the promoter. Companies like Freeman mark up all the labor costs, charge $450 to use their exclusive badge reader, require you to rent carpet from them, et al.
In my industry we have one trade show per year. Everyone loves having it in Chicago - even the exhibitors - Las Vegas. Chicago is more expensive but more people are willing to attend a centrally located show. Las Vegas is loved because it's cheap to travel to and stay there. They've tried New Orleans, Atlanta, Dallas and Orlando but tend to come back to Chicago or Las Vegas.
I doubt the cops will get me tomorrow morning either.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I figured out the reason for the oddball timing of youth hockey games. 5-9 year olds are able to be up and functioning for 6 AM ice. Middle schoolers get evening ice time because the can't get up for 6 AM ice.
I have been in lots of trade shows...if you want a chair it's $50, table $100, carpet $150, spotlights (which are necessary or no one will see your booth) $100. It is a total rip off, small booth can run $25k for 5 days.
Chicago is best because it is central and flight cost is lowest.
I hate working trade shows, you have to smile and be pleasant to people all day long, not easy for Mr. Grumpy.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Sorry about that JM...........Just think of all the fun your grandchildren are having because of us Canadians.
We went to a Lightening - Maple Leaf game here in Tampa a few weeks ago. I said to my wife, why are we doing this, much better just watching the game from home...where you have all the comforts.......and the game doesn't cost $120 a ticket (ours were $50 from the university alumni), beer $13, coffee $6, awful sandwich $10 + parking etc.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Mercedes Joins Sub-compact CUV Craze
With the success of the luxury Buick Encore sub-compact CUV it appears Mercedes Benz is joining the fray with its soon to released GLA 250. In pictures the GLA 250 looks smart and elegant but in videos it looks like a micro-subcompact. Perhaps too tiny for America's expanding waistline but perhaps this is a subliminal message for us to lose weight.
What's driving this trend, is it to meet new CAFE requirements or a serious attempt to hook the Millennials? The starting price for the GLA is in the neighborhood of $30K and I am beginning to wonder if Mercedes Benz is diluting its brand equity.
Driver, could you post a pic of the GLA versus the Encore and the BMW *X3 equivalent?
RB...They had a Fiat Abarth at the show that I sat in. Interesting car. Would love to test drive one. But, I hate to admit to myself, for better or worse, I like larger iron. Does that mean I'm nearing the age of the average Denny's crowd?
Fezo....I know I may be stretching my distaste for Cadillac a bit too far over an event that happened many years ago. But, you can screw me and I'll get over it. Mess with my family (in this case, my late Mother) and I'm going to hold a grudge.....a BIG grudge.....for a very long time. I know one thing's for certain, at the very least, I'll never set foot in the dealership in question, ever again. I did get a "test drive offer" of $50. I'll go to the local Caddy dealer, tell them I'm not in the market, and get my 50 bucks without hesitation. Maybe that's just a little Cadillac comeuppance I can hang my hat on.
Not so much these days, but the company I used to work for did lots of trade shows. It is expensive. And yes, most venues stop just short of extortion. We used to have the discussion every year about how to spend our marketing dollars. The trade shows took up such a huge amount of it, I always could find what I considered a more effective use for those dollars. I was always voted down by the folks who said...."we'll be conspicuous by our absence"...or, "not attending sends the wrong message, people will think we're in financial trouble."
I couldn't help by thinking those thoughts when I didn't see a Volvo, or a Jag, or a Land Rover at the auto show.
Still, it seems the auto trade shows, at least locally, are beginning to shrink pretty dramatically.
robr2....I love the Chicago Auto Show. While the one in Detroit has all the new models, concept cars, etc., it's colder than a witches.....ummm....it's really, really cold there in January.
I could spend 2-3 days at Chicago's auto show and be happy for the experience.
I realize that they have to protect the cars but it was just me and the salesman with almost no one else around. Isn't the idea of a show to let potential customers get a feel for the product without a lot of pressure?
I was even willing to finish my ice cream cone and wash most of the axel grease off my hands before I got in.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Re: Trade shows.
I did a few in my days as a health care rep but don't ever remember any union extortion. Not sure what the company paid for the space but I hauled in all the displays, did the set up and even plugged in the lights.
Maybe upstate NY was too far out in the woods for the unions to bother with.
That reminds me of a conversation I had with another social worker at one of the events. He said he previously worked for the prison system and would occasionally have to supervise inmate work crews outside the walls. He said he was concerned about the prisoners trying to escape into the woods until one of the guards told him that these were previous NYC residents and they were so afraid of being eaten by wild animals that they were zero risk of escape.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
unions push the cost of the plastic show in Chicago so far they said pound sand and its now in Orlando! warm, LOTS cheaper all around, in Chicago could not fart w/o a union guy to announce who did it! Then they billed you for the announcement!
I'm real keen on the performance upgrades of the 2015 like IRS and the rumors that the 5.0L will put out "more" than 420hp. I'm having a little trouble accepting the Fusion-like from grill but maybe if I see it in person I'd like it.
Did you get to sit in it, and if so what's the interior like?
As it stands this could be my retirement dream car.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I've done shows at both. People complain about Orlando. Yes, it's cheaper but the lackadaisical attitude of the labor drives exhibitors nuts. Further, the hotels aren't convenient, you need a rental car, it cost $15 per entry/exit to park and the west coast folks hate the five hour trip.
Chicago isn't perfect but our show prefers it.
@oldfarmer50
If it makes you feel any better, BMW wouldn't anyone sit in the new 850i during the Press Only days at the 1989 Frankfurt show. I asked. At the Ferrari stand, in contrast, I was encouraged to sit in their new 348...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The concepts are always locked and roped off. The new Mustang was no exception. Same for the Chrysler 200.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Oldfarmer....as Stickguy mentioned, the '15 Mustang was sitting on a roped off pedestal. It's much better looking in person than the pics I'd seen. They did have a door open. From 10 feet away, the interior didn't look like anything to write home about. The Fusion's interior was much better.
That said, like you, I'd love IRS, 420+ HP, probably a manual 7 speed. I think it will be a scorcher on the road....both on the straights, and in the corkscrews.
Even from 10 feet, the new 200 did nothing to make me want to take a closer look.
It doesn't take a "vast vocabulary" to solve this problem with your son. One word will solve the problem: NO. You may have to utter the word two or three times, but the message will eventually sink in. I used to have friends who would begin to plan and decorate their homes for special events. They would get frustrated and stuck, then call me. I rather do it from scratch than clean up a mess that someone else has made. I kept doing and doing---using a lot of my time and energy. Once I started charging $300 per event, they quit calling. Now that's an idea for you. Tell your son's friends to buy the parts and you'll only charge them a labor fee. Works like a charm.
Richard
Mike, I'm so sorry that your car deals are now screwed. I have been there in similar situations not involving cars. As the old saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished. At least, like a good father, you tried to help.
Richard
"As the old saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished. At least, like a good father, you tried to help."
Richard, you can't imagine how upset I am with my son. He bragged to his neighbor that his dad could get him the same deal, which was BS. On the end, I was the one who got screwed for helping my son out. I even co-signed his lease so he could get a good deal - and now I'm on the hook for his lease. I was so stupid thinking this would be a simple thing. Boy was I wrong!!!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
well, look at the bright(?) side Mike. if he can't make the payments, at least you know where your next Benz is coming from!
What, too soon?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I had the opportunity to drive a Smart car and was impressed with it. I did drive it in the Lincoln Park/Near Northside neighborhoods of Chicago which is a just north of the downtown area. Its a more yuppie type neighborhood which is more than twice the population density of the city as a whole hence it is very congested traffic wise. Traffic is somewhat slow moving and tight and the Smart move through it better than any other car I have driven in the area. I was able to get around a few things that would have given my a lot of trouble in my car. It's pretty much the environment that the Smart is made for.
That being said I will admit that driving it in a more open suburban or rural setting might give a different impression.
I like my Sebring ragtop and would seriously consider a 200 ragtop when time comes to replacing it but I wouldn't get the sedan.
I'm afraid that Ford doesn't even know what they are doing with Lincoln.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well I just read that Chrysler had decided that the new 200 won't have a ragtop, so it looks like the 200 will not be in my garage.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You are so right about having pictures made doing questionable activities. The press will use them in a skinny minute. One of my former students was Miss North Carolina. Her fiancée got mad at her due to all of the traveling and functions that she had to attend. He gave a reporter a picture of her which showed her topless in the family pool. The powers that be took away her crown and the first runner up finished out the year in her place. It was a very unfortunate situation. Needless t say, the fiancée quickly became a thing of the past.
We're hosting an event for the new Miss North Carolina here at our home on March 11th. Let's hope that this girl hasn't caught herself in some compromising position. There are times when young people just don't realize the consequences of their actions. As in Mike's case and your case, what were these two boys thinking? The word "entitlement" comes to mind. That's the problem with my niece and nephew these days.
Richard
I think the same, it could be "entitlement", and it could be a big dose of not being "responsible".
I think there is also an element of not caring that you are hurting the person who trusted you and wanted to help. I call it being a "mild sociopath" because these people have no empathy for the people they hurt (I'd put Miss N.C.s fiancee in that category).
I have a friend who's daughter (about 30) got married to a business guy about a year ago. He has asked and hinted to my friend (his Father-in-law) for quite a bit of money at various times to finance his business. I said, only give the money if you can think of it as a gift, because there is a big possibility you may not get it back....and is your relationship with your daughter worth that.
Family is important and it is nice to see family members happy and successful, but, throwing money at a problem or giving it to people who don't appreciate it can end up very badly. Might be good to monitor your niece and nephew.....they could fit the description. Personally, I'd rather give inheritance to a charity than give it to people like that.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Snake....I guess there's just not that much call for something like a "SMART" car around my area. Yeah...it can get congested, but nothing like a larger city like Chicago. Don't see them very often, but every once in a while, I'll see one pop up. Matter of fact, I see the Tesla around more than I do a SMART, and Tesla doesn't even have a dealership here.
Speaking of Chicago, the GF and I are headed in your direction in 2-3 weeks. She has tix to one of the plays downtown. Hopefully, the coldest of the weather will be gone by then. We'll get in Friday night and leave Sunday around noon.
Ah yes, the simple NO! reply may be the best. A lot better than the back hand I was thinking about using because a kid can have you put away for that these days. Although it does seem that sparing the rod has certainly spoiled this kid about volunteering my services.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I know this Chrysler 200 is supposed to be an all new and much better car than the old 200, but, how come it looks exactly the same?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Because the 2015 Chrysler 200 is all new:
I keep seeing the Smart cars around Columbus (OH) when visiting son. There is a membership rental usage company that decided it's the Smart thing to do. I see lots of them tucked into parking spaces where people leave them after using the car for whatever purpose. Neat--or should I say Smart?
Sounds like a pub or carryout name: Car2Go.
http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2013/10/03/car2go-car-share-to-roll-out-this-month.html
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Car2Go is owned by Daimler so it makes sense they are using Smarts.
gg- I hear you on the Cadillac issue. I have an aversion (other than being out of my price range when new - but I rarely buy any vehicle new) that really involves one particular dealership. My dad had been leasing DeVilles for maybe two decades at this place. He decided (in his mid-80s) it was time to go smaller. For a while he was convinced he might end up in a BMW (had he done that I'd have bought out the lease when he died and it would be sitting in my driveway). These clowns managed to talk him into a gussied up Buick Century which he hated from day one. Essentially they saw it was to be his last lease and took him for all he was worth rather than reward a long term customer.
My personal cars I don't even like to think about are VWs and Fords. I had bad examples of both and both the dealers and corporate treated me like I was radioactive.
I got a lawyer in on VW and that changed their attitude. The Ford was just in the "these thing happen at this kind of mileage; you lost the luck of the draw."
Ford has some things that could really interest me now but I'd have to know that corporate mind set has changed in customer service before I'd even think of it. I'll never set foot in the dealership again.
VW makes lovely stuff. I'd have to hear a couple of years worth of improved reliability (especially electrical) and again better corporate customer service. They could learn a thing or two from Honda. I dealt with their customer service people who listened to my issue and treated me politely and respectfully through the process. Maybe I ever had three issues over 5 cars and they'd ask what I wanted as a resolution. Twice I got it in full and once was just short of the mark but a good experience all around.
Maybe one problem is you can never say to a VW rep, "I bought a Volkswagen because I knew they were reliable."...... That works on Honda reps all the time.
"...hosting an event for the new miss N. Carolina...hope this girl hasn't caught herself in some compromising position..."
I suppose that depends on how well you behave yourself.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-h63KoZUsZQE/Tc5OCn7iicI/AAAAAAAADa0/cqGuObSnG_U/s1600/werewolf_girls_dormitory+poster.jpg
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible