When we get buy bids from dealers and wholesalers, they usually only look at base book. If there is a big add (Nav, 4x4, big miles, etc.) they will add. They are always below book to account for recon, etc. Also, if he gave numbers on the lot he broke a cardinal rule. Do not fender trade. All negotiations are to be done inside.
Ok, I didn't mean that I could bring in a beat up car and get Galves for it. Galves is the starting point, however. My cars never need anything, however, so I'm not used to "we gotta subtract for these things" conversations.
vmax, as Terry used to say and I believe BR has also said, Galves is actually often on the low side. I can't tell you how they calculate it.
You guys are mistaking me for a newb. I am telling you that I have been to a LARGE number of dealers and have bought many many cars, and only 1 dealer EVER has not used Galves. He used Blackbook (that's another good story). The ONLY reason I started using it myself is because all the dealers use it. I want to know before I go in what they will hit me for my trade.
Not all of them actually pull out the book, but many many of them do (which brings me back to why i started using it). The ones who don't pull it out magically come back to me with a number DEAD SPOT ON with Galves. So take it for what you will. I don't know what to tell you. Its just the way it is here.
I never ever mention Galves beforehand. I don't want to bring it out because, honestly, I'm hoping to find someone who DOESN'T use it. So, no, the 'yota dealer did not bring it out to placate me because I never let on that I knew the value of my truck or even knew what Galves was UNTIL he pulled out the book. If he had auction reports stating otherwise, why wouldn't he have brought those out?
by the way, every other dealer I visited with that truck hit me with the correct Galves number. So, again, what does that tell you?
Oh, and something else on Galves, and something that BR pointed out not too long ago to me. Their printed book used to be 1 number only, then add for options and +/- for miles. They NOW have a system where there is the base price, average price, and price for "lot ready." All values were base price before, which left room for recon. According to BR, this has made the book a bit more accurate with auction reports because it is no longer low across the board. (BR, I apologize if it wasn't you that said it, but I'm pretty sure it was)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It must be a regional thing for sure. I never heard of Galves until reading this forum. I thought at first it was short for Galveston and there must be a big auction there. We use black book and most cars fall around average.
I believe you, but in this area most people (including me) have not heard of Galves before. We use NADA. Our big problem is people come in with Kelley, which is primarily a California book, and usually much higher than NADA. I also have never seen any source (including auction reports) that are anything more than a ballpark guide.
Kelly and NADA is offered in two versions; the consumer version and the dealer version. Consumer version lists retail. Guess which book customers like? Mackabee
I think one of the communication problems around here comes from the fact that the bozos that gave the business such a bad name are still around in many areas. I know I'm in one of the worst spots living in NJ.
That said, I've had good experiences. When I bought my Accord in December of 99 it could not have gone easier. Not quite the bobst method but close to it. I had a handful of paperwork and a deal in mind. He came back with a "this is as close as I can come," which seemed an honest price, was very close and he didn't try anything tricky. Would have loved to buy from them again but the Ford folks who are trying to take over town swallowed up the Honda dealership. The salesman moved to Nissan and now the Ford dealership just ate them up.....
(disclaimer: about an hour went by between the beginning and end of this post. Got busy...)
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
It is funny, that's for sure. I mean, I've had conversations several times with dealers and we talk about this book phenomenon. They literally say, "oh, it drives me crazy when people come in with Kelly or NADA. Those books are crap. I mean, Galves is the only real book." ummmm... ok.
What can ya do? I know they are ALL garbage ... but its basically a big conspiracy theory around here. All the dealers in NJ have gotten together and decided "this is what we are using. if you use anything else, you are OUT OF THE CLUB!"
On a sidenote/story, I did have one dealer give me over Galves once. Interestingly enough, it was another volvo dealer (not the guy using blackbook). I'm not even sure why he did it. Out of the goodness of his heart? I mean, the numbers I had worked out were $1500 over Galves for their car and flat Galves for mine. I gave an OTD number based on this. They accepted my offer on their car, but rather than work it out and figure I had it nailed, they appraised my car and came back at about 8%-10% over Galves because they found it remarkably clean and really liked it. So my OTD number went down in the end.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I don't know about book per say - if there are two books, but their website has three options now - retail, trade-in and private purchase. I don't have as many deals to back it up with, but Kelley has been brought up by practically every dealer I met (FL) in one way or another.
That's right. The website also asks you to put in the condition of your trade: poor, fair, good, excellent. Most customers pick excellent. Some say my car is in excellent condition. I always say: "Sir, the only excellent condition cars I've seen are the ones leaving the showroom." Mackabee
A few days ago I had my wife's '04 Saturn VUE (AWD V6 loaded) evaluated by the local Saturn dealer as we were thinking of trading it in on an '08 VUE.
I had done some research on-line (Edmunds, KBB, and cars.com - the latter to see what they were being sold for in the Denver area), so I had a pretty good idea of where they were going to hit it.
UCM (I'm guessing) took it for a quick spin around the lot. He and the sales guy I had been working with came back with a printed sheet that I was only able to glance at - they showed some auction numbers, and some wholesale and retail trade numbers. UCM told me that it was the cleanest VUE he'd seen, and proceeded to quote a trade in value right where I expected, based on my research.
That number was, unfortunately, about $3-4K under what I wanted, but I was realistic about the difference between what we owe and what it's worth and thanked them for their time.
Sigh. That has only been a problem for me on the two occasions where a car got totaled. These weren't gem cars - an 87 Sentra and an 85 Accord - but they were utterly solid, reliable cars that got in the wrong place at the wrong time (one got t-boned by a guy running a stop sign and the other drowned). Both happened in teh early 90s.
I got somewhere in the $4s for the Accord which wasn't great but close. Only got $1,400 for the Sentra. I couldn't get anything nearly as reliable for that. Except for salt water in the engine it was in great shape...... It was a slug but a darned reliable and easy to work on slug.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Sometimes cars are above galves and sometimes they are below.
Just in the past two weeks I have appraised two different Range Rover Sports at above and below galves.
The first one I gave above the Galves Market Ready value because it was such a sharp car. I was about 1,500 dollars above Edmunds TMV. The other car was 3,000 dollars behind straight Galves because it didn't have any of the options that are expected of that car, it was on its second owner with only 4,500 miles and it was a funky color red with ivory leather and cherry wood. :surprise:
Oh and to top it all off he had the factory black plastic side skirts painted to match the car. That is personal preference and it looked ok but the body shop who did the work most be a bunch of morons. They let over spray drift all over the inside of the doors and onto parts of the fenders so it looks like the whole car was repainted.
I have nothing against Saturns and I actually think they are decent cars. As used cars, they are so SOFT and near impossible to sell. A five speed Vue will probably stick around on your lot for a LONG time!
UCM (I'm guessing) took it for a quick spin around the lot. He and the sales guy I had been working with came back with a printed sheet that I was only able to glance at - they showed some auction numbers, and some wholesale and retail trade numbers. UCM told me that it was the cleanest VUE he'd seen, and proceeded to quote a trade in value right where I expected, based on my research.
Since Saturn sticks to MSRP less incentives, would that give them more room on a trade?
On the one hand,it is nice to be able to look in a book and see what a car is worth. on the other hand it can be dangerous as well. Sometimes the market changes too quickly for a book to be accurate. I'm glad that Galves is somewhat accurate. Kelley and NADA sure aren't.
There are those who come to the lot who pick what they want to buy and those who come to the lot and because of there credit have picked for them what they can buy.
I could sell a field full of cars like that. Low miles sell it for around $7K after recon.
Even at a outrageous rate it is still only $275 a month for 48 months. my guess is it will be gone by COB Saturday.
You may not know this but TN is the #1 in BK's filed. There are more Bankrupt people in the state per capita then any other state. So we do quite a bit of Special Financing.
We don't mess with "Special" Financing and I'm glad we don't.
I don't much care for it either, but when 4 out of every 10 apps you look at have a BK in them you don't have allot of choice I am hoping the new laws help out and eventually it will all run its course.
I hardly ever see a BK and they BK people usually are smart enough to know they can't get financed.
There are places that will finance these people but MAN, do they pay through the nose. They get TOLD what car they can buy, what they will pay for it and what their outrageous interest rate will be. Get late on one payment and that car will get "popped" so fast they won't know what happened.
Some will agrue, these people get what they deserve and that could be true in most instances.
Still, it's something I have no taste for. Someone else can sell these pople cars.
In 2003 when the Mazda6 was launched, I went to my trusted dealer in Philly and inquired about a v6-stick. The Sales Manager replied that they have a couple of I4-stick and all V6 with automatic. I told him almost all people interested in the V6 in the debut year want the stick NOW. The automatic would be in demand later on. He scoffed at me and told me that nobody wants to drive a v6-stick in the city. So unfortunately I had to buy my v6-stick from the Mazda dealership in Freehold, NJ about 80 miles away. 3 Months later I take my car in service to my local dealer in Philly and take a walk through his lot and what do I see? Tons of V6 with Stick shift.
I saw something in Autoweek last week that said Ford was offering 0% financing on the Shelby GT500s. Why would they offer it if the GT500 is so hot (I know it is a very hot selling car, just curious)? Is the term capped?
Saturns still sell at MSRP?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
And have you ever noticed that they agree to everything you tell them.? You want a moonroof?:) Leather? Lexus? Ok. And you don't want a discount? Dang, I like this customer. Let's do a credit app before we continue. And how much are you putting down? Nothing? And let me guess you want your payments at $250 a month correct? :P Then you run their credit and up comes the famous line: "Serious delinquency reported" Whenever I get a customer like that I cut to the chase quick. They are either BK's or lay downs Mackabee
You mean customers bring in their car and expect you to give them dealer retail? That would be dumb since both guides list TRADE-IN value also. KBB also takes into account condition: Excellent, Good, Fair.
If I were the type to negotiate I suppose I would ask for Excellent trade-in price and work down from there. After all , my car IS excellent, except for all the dents and mechanical problems.
One other thing. How does the dealer version differ from the consumer version? If I run my Junkmobile through both books will I get different results for the same car in the same condition?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Its easy to offer 0% on something you are out of. That was on all remaining 07 models for 36 months. Even if someone has one left that is a pretty hefty payment. Though all of the ones we sold were cash deals. So I guess if a cash buyer wanted to leave his money alone for 3 years it would be a smart move.
I took it to mean that he was expecting X, but let them appraise it anyway just in case they came in at X + 2K or so. I also felt that they really liked the new one, so were hoping to get lucky, just not really expecting to.
yeah, but he already KNEW how upside-down he was. As stickguy said, I guess he was hoping to "get lucky." I guess maybe its just me, but I wouldn't waste my or the salesperson's time in this case. If I did my research ahead of time and knew the numbers, I would only go to the dealer with the intention of making a deal if they hit those numbers. Sure, I'd hope to get lucky, but that's just icing, not the whole cake.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
remember, they are Saturn folks, and wanted to check out the new Vue (which they hadn't seen before) to determine if they are even interested in it. And turns out, they were.
Happens all the time. I do it myself (stopping in to look at a new model to see if it is something I want to consider). OK, that probably makes me a stroke, but sometimes I get impulsive!
Yet, I digress..
So, while you are in the dealer anyway, of course they are going to offer to take a quick look at your trade to see if numbers can work. And in this case, they didn't.
What they heck, it was a Saturn dealer, so it's not like they were busy, right?
It is exactly like stickguy said .. I knew I was upside down. However, between the two visits to the dealer (once on Saturday about an hour before closing, the second on a Tuesday afternoon), I think I was there an hour total. I don't feel it was a waste of time, either mine or the salesman's - he had a car to sell and I was hoping to buy. If I was able to get something close to the payoff value in trade, I might have pulled the trigger.
As for Saturn's going for MSRP, I believe that is still true. The '08 VUE already has a $750 rebate on it, plus I qualify for the GM Supplier discount, which would have given me another $1500-1800 off the MSRP value.
I will admit that this was a spur-of-the-moment decision in the first place. It's not like there is anything wrong with our '04 VUE. I was able to get my wife to visit the Saturn dealer "just to look" (remember, I'm trying to maintain my CCBA membership) and we both really liked the new VUE.
As I own 3 Saturns, I'm at the dealership often for regular maintenance - so much so that I feel like a fleet manager at times. I know they are keen to sell new cars to existing customers.
What they heck, it was a Saturn dealer, so it's not like they were busy, right?
Ouch. But, probably the truth, even with all the new product Saturn has to offer.
The dealer we were at - Saturn of Highlands Ranch - is one of 5 Saturn dealers in Colorado owned by the same dealership group (2 in Denver, 2 in Co. Springs, 1 in Pueblo). Of the 5, this one probably does the smallest volume.
In fact, they did not have the exact car we wanted on the lot and traded with a Springs dealer to get it.
Have you posted in our Dealer Ratings & Reviews section yet?
I was going to rate and review the dealer from when I leased an F150 a few months ago but there are just not words to describe how unbelievably, kind, courteous, ,trustworthy, loyal, helpful, and friendly the F&I guy was. My words could not do him justice. So I decided to just leave it alone.
"I was going to rate and review the dealer from when I leased an F150 a few months ago but there are just not words to describe how unbelievably, kind, courteous, ,trustworthy, loyal, helpful, and friendly the F&I guy was. My words could not do him justice"
Why wouldn't you just buy from the dealership that you are employed at? :P
Comments
vmax, as Terry used to say and I believe BR has also said, Galves is actually often on the low side. I can't tell you how they calculate it.
You guys are mistaking me for a newb. I am telling you that I have been to a LARGE number of dealers and have bought many many cars, and only 1 dealer EVER has not used Galves. He used Blackbook (that's another good story). The ONLY reason I started using it myself is because all the dealers use it. I want to know before I go in what they will hit me for my trade.
Not all of them actually pull out the book, but many many of them do (which brings me back to why i started using it). The ones who don't pull it out magically come back to me with a number DEAD SPOT ON with Galves. So take it for what you will. I don't know what to tell you. Its just the way it is here.
I never ever mention Galves beforehand. I don't want to bring it out because, honestly, I'm hoping to find someone who DOESN'T use it. So, no, the 'yota dealer did not bring it out to placate me because I never let on that I knew the value of my truck or even knew what Galves was UNTIL he pulled out the book. If he had auction reports stating otherwise, why wouldn't he have brought those out?
by the way, every other dealer I visited with that truck hit me with the correct Galves number. So, again, what does that tell you?
Oh, and something else on Galves, and something that BR pointed out not too long ago to me. Their printed book used to be 1 number only, then add for options and +/- for miles. They NOW have a system where there is the base price, average price, and price for "lot ready." All values were base price before, which left room for recon. According to BR, this has made the book a bit more accurate with auction reports because it is no longer low across the board. (BR, I apologize if it wasn't you that said it, but I'm pretty sure it was)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mackabee
I think one of the communication problems around here comes from the fact that the bozos that gave the business such a bad name are still around in many areas. I know I'm in one of the worst spots living in NJ.
That said, I've had good experiences. When I bought my Accord in December of 99 it could not have gone easier. Not quite the bobst method but close to it. I had a handful of paperwork and a deal in mind. He came back with a "this is as close as I can come," which seemed an honest price, was very close and he didn't try anything tricky. Would have loved to buy from them again but the Ford folks who are trying to take over town swallowed up the Honda dealership. The salesman moved to Nissan and now the Ford dealership just ate them up.....
(disclaimer: about an hour went by between the beginning and end of this post. Got busy...)
It is funny, that's for sure. I mean, I've had conversations several times with dealers and we talk about this book phenomenon. They literally say, "oh, it drives me crazy when people come in with Kelly or NADA. Those books are crap. I mean, Galves is the only real book." ummmm... ok.
What can ya do? I know they are ALL garbage ... but its basically a big conspiracy theory around here. All the dealers in NJ have gotten together and decided "this is what we are using. if you use anything else, you are OUT OF THE CLUB!"
On a sidenote/story, I did have one dealer give me over Galves once. Interestingly enough, it was another volvo dealer (not the guy using blackbook). I'm not even sure why he did it. Out of the goodness of his heart? I mean, the numbers I had worked out were $1500 over Galves for their car and flat Galves for mine. I gave an OTD number based on this. They accepted my offer on their car, but rather than work it out and figure I had it nailed, they appraised my car and came back at about 8%-10% over Galves because they found it remarkably clean and really liked it. So my OTD number went down in the end.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
That is what another dealer offered... (6 months ago)
That is what I need....
If I am paying retail, I should get retail....
That is what they are going for on Autotrader...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Mackabee
Mackabee
I had done some research on-line (Edmunds, KBB, and cars.com - the latter to see what they were being sold for in the Denver area), so I had a pretty good idea of where they were going to hit it.
UCM (I'm guessing) took it for a quick spin around the lot. He and the sales guy I had been working with came back with a printed sheet that I was only able to glance at - they showed some auction numbers, and some wholesale and retail trade numbers. UCM told me that it was the cleanest VUE he'd seen, and proceeded to quote a trade in value right where I expected, based on my research.
That number was, unfortunately, about $3-4K under what I wanted, but I was realistic about the difference between what we owe and what it's worth and thanked them for their time.
No sale.
That's what it's worth to me...
and secretly they'd never buy it for that either!
I got somewhere in the $4s for the Accord which wasn't great but close. Only got $1,400 for the Sentra. I couldn't get anything nearly as reliable for that. Except for salt water in the engine it was in great shape...... It was a slug but a darned reliable and easy to work on slug.
Sometimes cars are above galves and sometimes they are below.
Just in the past two weeks I have appraised two different Range Rover Sports at above and below galves.
The first one I gave above the Galves Market Ready value because it was such a sharp car. I was about 1,500 dollars above Edmunds TMV. The other car was 3,000 dollars behind straight Galves because it didn't have any of the options that are expected of that car, it was on its second owner with only 4,500 miles and it was a funky color red with ivory leather and cherry wood. :surprise:
Oh and to top it all off he had the factory black plastic side skirts painted to match the car. That is personal preference and it looked ok but the body shop who did the work most be a bunch of morons. They let over spray drift all over the inside of the doors and onto parts of the fenders so it looks like the whole car was repainted.
We use NADA but we usually pull up auction results. Auction results reflect REAL values in a more timely fashion.
Still, a good value for someone who likes them.
Since Saturn sticks to MSRP less incentives, would that give them more room on a trade?
Sometimes the market changes too quickly for a book to be accurate.
I'm glad that Galves is somewhat accurate.
Kelley and NADA sure aren't.
Actually, it would probably give them less.
Since they can't show an over allowance like alot of dealers do.
the cars wholesale value is what it is.
I could sell a field full of cars like that. Low miles sell it for around $7K after recon.
Even at a outrageous rate it is still only $275 a month for 48 months. my guess is it will be gone by COB Saturday.
You may not know this but TN is the #1 in BK's filed. There are more Bankrupt people in the state per capita then any other state. So we do quite a bit of Special Financing.
We don't mess with "Special" Financing and I'm glad we don't. Not my cup of tea.
Yeah, that Saturn would be one of those "back of book" cars that would make a good SF candidate.
I don't much care for it either, but when 4 out of every 10 apps you look at have a BK in them you don't have allot of choice
Why do they even bother trying to get financed?
I hardly ever see a BK and they BK people usually are smart enough to know they can't get financed.
There are places that will finance these people but MAN, do they pay through the nose. They get TOLD what car they can buy, what they will pay for it and what their outrageous interest rate will be. Get late on one payment and that car will get "popped" so fast they won't know what happened.
Some will agrue, these people get what they deserve and that could be true in most instances.
Still, it's something I have no taste for. Someone else can sell these pople cars.
7K Seems incredibly cheap, that SUV would list for around 12K around here
3 Months later I take my car in service to my local dealer in Philly and take a walk through his lot and what do I see? Tons of V6 with Stick shift.
I could only laugh ......
Saturns still sell at MSRP?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
The reason they had all of those V-6 sticks was because they don't sell!
Whenever I get a customer like that I cut to the chase quick. They are either BK's or lay downs
Mackabee
You mean customers bring in their car and expect you to give them dealer retail? That would be dumb since both guides list TRADE-IN value also. KBB also takes into account condition: Excellent, Good, Fair.
If I were the type to negotiate I suppose I would ask for Excellent trade-in price and work down from there. After all , my car IS excellent, except for all the dents and mechanical problems.
One other thing. How does the dealer version differ from the consumer version? If I run my Junkmobile through both books will I get different results for the same car in the same condition?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
michaell, if you were a new poster, I'd know what to say right here, but in your case, I'm just confused.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Hey, you won't know if you don't ask!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Happens all the time. I do it myself (stopping in to look at a new model to see if it is something I want to consider). OK, that probably makes me a stroke, but sometimes I get impulsive!
Yet, I digress..
So, while you are in the dealer anyway, of course they are going to offer to take a quick look at your trade to see if numbers can work. And in this case, they didn't.
What they heck, it was a Saturn dealer, so it's not like they were busy, right?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
As for Saturn's going for MSRP, I believe that is still true. The '08 VUE already has a $750 rebate on it, plus I qualify for the GM Supplier discount, which would have given me another $1500-1800 off the MSRP value.
I will admit that this was a spur-of-the-moment decision in the first place. It's not like there is anything wrong with our '04 VUE. I was able to get my wife to visit the Saturn dealer "just to look" (remember, I'm trying to maintain my CCBA membership) and we both really liked the new VUE.
As I own 3 Saturns, I'm at the dealership often for regular maintenance - so much so that I feel like a fleet manager at times. I know they are keen to sell new cars to existing customers.
Ouch. But, probably the truth, even with all the new product Saturn has to offer.
The dealer we were at - Saturn of Highlands Ranch - is one of 5 Saturn dealers in Colorado owned by the same dealership group (2 in Denver, 2 in Co. Springs, 1 in Pueblo). Of the 5, this one probably does the smallest volume.
In fact, they did not have the exact car we wanted on the lot and traded with a Springs dealer to get it.
I was going to rate and review the dealer from when I leased an F150 a few months ago but there are just not words to describe how unbelievably, kind, courteous, ,trustworthy, loyal, helpful, and friendly the F&I guy was. My words could not do him justice. So I decided to just leave it alone.
Why wouldn't you just buy from the dealership that you are employed at? :P