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Comments
vmax, as Terry used to say and I believe BR has also said, Galves is actually often on the low side. I can't tell you how they calculate it.
You guys are mistaking me for a newb. I am telling you that I have been to a LARGE number of dealers and have bought many many cars, and only 1 dealer EVER has not used Galves. He used Blackbook (that's another good story). The ONLY reason I started using it myself is because all the dealers use it. I want to know before I go in what they will hit me for my trade.
Not all of them actually pull out the book, but many many of them do (which brings me back to why i started using it). The ones who don't pull it out magically come back to me with a number DEAD SPOT ON with Galves. So take it for what you will. I don't know what to tell you. Its just the way it is here.
I never ever mention Galves beforehand. I don't want to bring it out because, honestly, I'm hoping to find someone who DOESN'T use it. So, no, the 'yota dealer did not bring it out to placate me because I never let on that I knew the value of my truck or even knew what Galves was UNTIL he pulled out the book. If he had auction reports stating otherwise, why wouldn't he have brought those out?
by the way, every other dealer I visited with that truck hit me with the correct Galves number. So, again, what does that tell you?
Oh, and something else on Galves, and something that BR pointed out not too long ago to me. Their printed book used to be 1 number only, then add for options and +/- for miles. They NOW have a system where there is the base price, average price, and price for "lot ready." All values were base price before, which left room for recon. According to BR, this has made the book a bit more accurate with auction reports because it is no longer low across the board. (BR, I apologize if it wasn't you that said it, but I'm pretty sure it was)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mackabee
I think one of the communication problems around here comes from the fact that the bozos that gave the business such a bad name are still around in many areas. I know I'm in one of the worst spots living in NJ.
That said, I've had good experiences. When I bought my Accord in December of 99 it could not have gone easier. Not quite the bobst method but close to it. I had a handful of paperwork and a deal in mind. He came back with a "this is as close as I can come," which seemed an honest price, was very close and he didn't try anything tricky. Would have loved to buy from them again but the Ford folks who are trying to take over town swallowed up the Honda dealership. The salesman moved to Nissan and now the Ford dealership just ate them up.....
(disclaimer: about an hour went by between the beginning and end of this post. Got busy...)
It is funny, that's for sure. I mean, I've had conversations several times with dealers and we talk about this book phenomenon. They literally say, "oh, it drives me crazy when people come in with Kelly or NADA. Those books are crap. I mean, Galves is the only real book." ummmm... ok.
What can ya do? I know they are ALL garbage ... but its basically a big conspiracy theory around here. All the dealers in NJ have gotten together and decided "this is what we are using. if you use anything else, you are OUT OF THE CLUB!"
On a sidenote/story, I did have one dealer give me over Galves once. Interestingly enough, it was another volvo dealer (not the guy using blackbook). I'm not even sure why he did it. Out of the goodness of his heart? I mean, the numbers I had worked out were $1500 over Galves for their car and flat Galves for mine. I gave an OTD number based on this. They accepted my offer on their car, but rather than work it out and figure I had it nailed, they appraised my car and came back at about 8%-10% over Galves because they found it remarkably clean and really liked it. So my OTD number went down in the end.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
That is what another dealer offered... (6 months ago)
That is what I need....
If I am paying retail, I should get retail....
That is what they are going for on Autotrader...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Mackabee
Mackabee
I had done some research on-line (Edmunds, KBB, and cars.com - the latter to see what they were being sold for in the Denver area), so I had a pretty good idea of where they were going to hit it.
UCM (I'm guessing) took it for a quick spin around the lot. He and the sales guy I had been working with came back with a printed sheet that I was only able to glance at - they showed some auction numbers, and some wholesale and retail trade numbers. UCM told me that it was the cleanest VUE he'd seen, and proceeded to quote a trade in value right where I expected, based on my research.
That number was, unfortunately, about $3-4K under what I wanted, but I was realistic about the difference between what we owe and what it's worth and thanked them for their time.
No sale.
That's what it's worth to me...
and secretly they'd never buy it for that either!
I got somewhere in the $4s for the Accord which wasn't great but close. Only got $1,400 for the Sentra. I couldn't get anything nearly as reliable for that. Except for salt water in the engine it was in great shape...... It was a slug but a darned reliable and easy to work on slug.
Sometimes cars are above galves and sometimes they are below.
Just in the past two weeks I have appraised two different Range Rover Sports at above and below galves.
The first one I gave above the Galves Market Ready value because it was such a sharp car. I was about 1,500 dollars above Edmunds TMV. The other car was 3,000 dollars behind straight Galves because it didn't have any of the options that are expected of that car, it was on its second owner with only 4,500 miles and it was a funky color red with ivory leather and cherry wood. :surprise:
Oh and to top it all off he had the factory black plastic side skirts painted to match the car. That is personal preference and it looked ok but the body shop who did the work most be a bunch of morons. They let over spray drift all over the inside of the doors and onto parts of the fenders so it looks like the whole car was repainted.
We use NADA but we usually pull up auction results. Auction results reflect REAL values in a more timely fashion.
Still, a good value for someone who likes them.
Since Saturn sticks to MSRP less incentives, would that give them more room on a trade?
Sometimes the market changes too quickly for a book to be accurate.
I'm glad that Galves is somewhat accurate.
Kelley and NADA sure aren't.
Actually, it would probably give them less.
Since they can't show an over allowance like alot of dealers do.
the cars wholesale value is what it is.
I could sell a field full of cars like that. Low miles sell it for around $7K after recon.
Even at a outrageous rate it is still only $275 a month for 48 months. my guess is it will be gone by COB Saturday.
You may not know this but TN is the #1 in BK's filed. There are more Bankrupt people in the state per capita then any other state. So we do quite a bit of Special Financing.
We don't mess with "Special" Financing and I'm glad we don't. Not my cup of tea.
Yeah, that Saturn would be one of those "back of book" cars that would make a good SF candidate.
I don't much care for it either, but when 4 out of every 10 apps you look at have a BK in them you don't have allot of choice
Why do they even bother trying to get financed?
I hardly ever see a BK and they BK people usually are smart enough to know they can't get financed.
There are places that will finance these people but MAN, do they pay through the nose. They get TOLD what car they can buy, what they will pay for it and what their outrageous interest rate will be. Get late on one payment and that car will get "popped" so fast they won't know what happened.
Some will agrue, these people get what they deserve and that could be true in most instances.
Still, it's something I have no taste for. Someone else can sell these pople cars.
7K Seems incredibly cheap, that SUV would list for around 12K around here
3 Months later I take my car in service to my local dealer in Philly and take a walk through his lot and what do I see? Tons of V6 with Stick shift.
I could only laugh ......
Saturns still sell at MSRP?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD, 2025 Integra
The reason they had all of those V-6 sticks was because they don't sell!
Whenever I get a customer like that I cut to the chase quick. They are either BK's or lay downs
Mackabee
You mean customers bring in their car and expect you to give them dealer retail? That would be dumb since both guides list TRADE-IN value also. KBB also takes into account condition: Excellent, Good, Fair.
If I were the type to negotiate I suppose I would ask for Excellent trade-in price and work down from there. After all , my car IS excellent, except for all the dents and mechanical problems.
One other thing. How does the dealer version differ from the consumer version? If I run my Junkmobile through both books will I get different results for the same car in the same condition?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
michaell, if you were a new poster, I'd know what to say right here, but in your case, I'm just confused.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Hey, you won't know if you don't ask!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Happens all the time. I do it myself (stopping in to look at a new model to see if it is something I want to consider). OK, that probably makes me a stroke, but sometimes I get impulsive!
Yet, I digress..
So, while you are in the dealer anyway, of course they are going to offer to take a quick look at your trade to see if numbers can work. And in this case, they didn't.
What they heck, it was a Saturn dealer, so it's not like they were busy, right?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
As for Saturn's going for MSRP, I believe that is still true. The '08 VUE already has a $750 rebate on it, plus I qualify for the GM Supplier discount, which would have given me another $1500-1800 off the MSRP value.
I will admit that this was a spur-of-the-moment decision in the first place. It's not like there is anything wrong with our '04 VUE. I was able to get my wife to visit the Saturn dealer "just to look" (remember, I'm trying to maintain my CCBA membership) and we both really liked the new VUE.
As I own 3 Saturns, I'm at the dealership often for regular maintenance - so much so that I feel like a fleet manager at times. I know they are keen to sell new cars to existing customers.
Ouch. But, probably the truth, even with all the new product Saturn has to offer.
The dealer we were at - Saturn of Highlands Ranch - is one of 5 Saturn dealers in Colorado owned by the same dealership group (2 in Denver, 2 in Co. Springs, 1 in Pueblo). Of the 5, this one probably does the smallest volume.
In fact, they did not have the exact car we wanted on the lot and traded with a Springs dealer to get it.
I was going to rate and review the dealer from when I leased an F150 a few months ago but there are just not words to describe how unbelievably, kind, courteous, ,trustworthy, loyal, helpful, and friendly the F&I guy was. My words could not do him justice. So I decided to just leave it alone.
Why wouldn't you just buy from the dealership that you are employed at? :P