Stories from the Sales Frontlines

british_rover

For instance, customers complained that doors are hard to close. Well, they a re tripled sealed for wading thru water so the last door to shut with the windows up is hard to close.

C’mon, you’re selling a car not a submarine. Don’t get cute with a design and you won’t have “designed in faults”!


I know you find this hard to believe but some people really do use these cars to their full capability. Most Land Rovers can ford almost 30 inches of water safely. Also those triple sealed doors make the cars very quiet. A LR3 or Range Rover is just as quiet if not quieter then a large Luxury car even with the extra wind noise generated by the boxy shape.



Bit of water on the bonnet there.

Belize trip

fezo

Man, I could have used that back in 92 when my mother-in-law got flooded in and lost all communication. Tried a rescue mission in my old Sentra. Two weeks later it became by former Sentra when it finally died on the Parkway.

Salt water in the engine will do that...

british_rover

That is a completely stock from the factory vehicle too. The tires on it are not currently available in the US because they haven't been DOT tested but other then that you can get that capability right now at any Land Rover dealer.

jmonroe

What's wrong with being designed stronger?

Stronger is good but will it be stronger "longer"?

jmonroe

fezo

Great! I'm sure you have a nice like new one that you'd sell for the price of an 04 Ody.....

british_rover

Suuureeeee

backs quietly out of the thread

fezo

That's OK. You can stay. I'm not serious.....

Gotta love the ability of those things though.

british_rover

You need a LR3. Has three rows like the Odyssey and is actually a little better off road then the Range Rover plus it is 30,000 to 40,000 dollars less. :surprise:

fezo

Cool. Let me know when the 20K rebate comes in...

british_rover

Ehh half way there on a service loaner.

lrguy44

Once again look at the Discovery channel and look at all those 30-40 year old LRs running around remote parts of the world. I recently sold a 97 Defender with 140k for $35000. Try that with a Hyundai.

now I have to go to work!

british_rover

Yikes Defenders bring a lot more money in your part of the country then ours. I don't think I could get more then 25,000 for a 97 with that kind mileage.

jmonroe

The tires on it are not currently available in the US because they haven't been DOT tested but other then that you can get that capability right now at any Land Rover dealer.

I could tell that from the photo. Did you have to give it away to everyone here?

That’s a nice swimmer you have there but I never needed that in a car and I don’t think the average Range Rover customer would even think of trying that with there’s let alone actually doing it. I’m pretty sure if you ask one of them to try it so they could prove it to themselves they would say, “not with the problems I’ve had with mine so far, gimme one of your loaners if you want me to do that. Furthermore, mine is up on the rack, can’t you see”?

jmonroe

fezo

I've needed it exactly once but I REALLY needed it that day.... There have been several other days when it would have come in handy as all get out. Coastal floods could be heap big fun with one of those.

epiney

I totally agree with this. I took my friend's new S4 out for a drive. It was great with that V8 in that little car. Only complaint I had was that the auto was a little slow, easily fixed by going into manual shift mode.

Right after, caught a ride in a fairly new Ford Taurus (rental). I felt like I was in a 10 year old taxi.

stickguy

off topic of course, but if I took my nice new rover in water that deep, and it developed a problem (say, water intake?), would they happily warranty the repairs, since I used the car as designed?

I'm sure if I tried to swim my Honda they wouldn't!

Same idea with the guy that takes his BMW to a track event and beats it up. Hey, it is meant for that use, right?

british_rover

Go on Youtube and search for videos on the Floods in england this past summer. There are tons of videos of people in various Land Rovers driving through the flood waters. Land Rover donated some vehicles to local rescue groups and the red cross so that they could evacuate people.

joel0622

So then I guess pressure washing an engine when it is running is no problem for your detail shop.

epiney

Too much splash back from the fan

british_rover

Ehh probably depends on exactly what failed. If you inhaled water down the intake track then you were in water much, much deeper then that maximum ratings and I am sure it would not be covered.

mackabee

Can't sell them in their own country so they give them away heh?
Mackabee

roadburner

I didn't even know they MADE a 518!

A local BHPH lot had an E28 518 a few years back. Must have been a diplomat's car, as I can't imagine someone spending the money to have it DOT/EPA certified when it would have cost about the same to do a 535i. I briefly considered offering them $500 and using it for a beater...

mackabee

Oh yeah, come and drive a V6 Camry SE. It will blow the doors off the 3 and 5 series. I think BMW created an "aura" with their "ultimate driving machine" bs. I've driven them and I don't particularly care for them. The Japanese have beaten the Germans at their own game.
Mack

mackabee

I guess you haven't shut the door on a Tundra or Landcruiser! You guys should get out more often and actually drive the competition.
:P
Mack

robr2

Why is it the more expensive and exotic the car the more trouble it is with regard to reliability. I would think it would be the opposite. What is the allure of these trouble prone vehicles.

Whether Jag or LAnd Rover or Ferarri they all don't have the long term reliability of a plain jane Honda. Land Rover is near the bottom in reliability according to JD Powers. Not good for a vehicle that is sold to take one a long way off the beaten path. Masaratis another car loaded with early issues.

It's basically an issue of manufacturability and tolerances.

High end products tend to create a viscious circle of high costs and many times low reliability. Low volume basically ensures high costs because the cost of design, tooling, et al is ammortized across a low volume - the above costs are fixed and are more expensive on a per unit basis than say an Accord. Also high volume products are designed for manufacturablity. Everything is designed around making that product cheaply and quickly and the same every time.

As for reliability, low volume, high end products tend to have tighter tolerances. When they go out of spec, it's not pretty.

lrguy44

My wife has an 05 Acura TL - nice car. Doesn't hold a candle to a finely tuned German import!

roadburner

Same idea with the guy that takes his BMW to a track event and beats it up. Hey, it is meant for that use, right?

The BMW dealers that I have used don't have a problem with a car being used for track events. I'm sure they wouldn't cover a "money shift" or something similar, but the warranty isn't voided for merely running it in an HPDE. As a matter of fact, one dealer replaced the "defective LF wheel center cap of my Club Sport under warranty. The cap's "defect" was a 0.5" hole that I had drilled in it so that I could mount the speed sensor for a TimeWise rally computer. I hadn't even mentioned it to the service advisor...

roadburner

Oh yeah, come and drive a V6 Camry SE. It will blow the doors off the 3 and 5 series.

That Toyota Kool-Aid must be really potent stuff; though I will admit that the new Camry is just about as unattractive as the current 5er...

epiney

Oh yeah, come and drive a V6 Camry SE. It will blow the doors off the 3 and 5 series. I think BMW created an "aura" with their "ultimate driving machine" bs. I've driven them and I don't particularly care for them. The Japanese have beaten the Germans at their own game.

Sorry mack, can't agree with you there. I looked real hard at a new 535i and E350 before ordering the new GS. Both of them were better than the GS for driving feel, especially the 535. However the ergonomics of both the BMW and Merc were lacking, especially the nav systems. Reliability was a concern and I really did not want to be first year guinea pig for the new twin turbo motor. I knew I was making an overall compromise with the GS, OK at most things, excellent at none.

mackabee

What do you drive?
Mack

british_rover

Oh yeah, come and drive a V6 Camry SE. It will blow the doors off the 3 and 5 series. I

Maybe if you load the trunk with explosives.

mackabee

"That Toyota Kool-Aid must be really potent stuff; though I will admit that the new Camry is just about as unattractive as the current 5er... "

It's not Kool-Aid, it's Sake!

jmonroe

Once again look at the Discovery channel and look at all those 30-40 year old LRs running around remote parts of the world.

Land Rover acquired their reputation with those old rugged machines. Their problems started when they decided to get cute with a good thing.

I recently sold a 97 Defender with 140k for $35000. Try that with a Hyundai.

Now you should know better than most that $35K is twice the price of a lot of those “throw-aways” but if you had two of them, which I do, you would get more miles out of them than one 97’ Defender. However, I'll admit they can't swim.

now I have to go to work!

Yeah, me too. I’ve been asked to sit in on a “design review meeting”, Boy, are those things fun. I hope someone hasn’t tried to get cute with one of their designs. :P

Note: I think I mentioned a while back that my old employer bought me out of retirement to come back for a while as a consultant and they want their moneys worth so I’ll be gone for a little while, talk to ya later.

jmonroe

roadburner

What do you drive?

1995 318ti Club Sport
2004 X3 2.5(wife's car; the only slushbox)
2007 Mazdaspeed3
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1996 Speed Triple

mackabee

BR just for you.
Mack
http://www.toyota.com/landcruiser/exterior.html

mackabee

Not familiar with the last one. What's a Speed Triple?
Mack

epiney

2007 Mazdaspeed3

What was the buying experience of that one? Any ADM?

british_rover

Already saw it just looks like a giant highlander and it still has a solid axle when almost everything else in the class now has a full independent set up.

Can you say CHEAP?

lrguy44

Yikes Defenders bring a lot more money in your part of the country then ours.

Mountains make a BIG difference

roadburner

Not familiar with the last one. What's a Speed Triple?



Mine has a 3-into-1 Triumph/Sebring exhaust as well as Triumph six-pot front calipers.

epiney

Can you say CHEAP?

$64,000 is cheap? :P :surprise: ... I'll take two

roadburner

What was the buying experience of that one? Any ADM?

My local dealer(Oxmoor Mazda) was sticking a $3K ADM sticker on the MS3s as well as requiring a signed buyers order to get a test drive. I bought the car from Kings Mazda in Cincinnati. They offered me a test drive with no strings attached. They also found a car with the color and equipment I wanted and had it trucked in at no cost. I paid MSRP plus a $255.50 doc. fee. Meanwhile Oxmoor is still sitting on the MS3 I wanted to drive back on 7/3...

british_rover

The profit margin on those LCs must be huge. The basic chassis hasn't changed in 15 years or more. Sure the suspension, engine and transmission have all been upgraded this year but I am sure the frame and rear axle are largely carry overs. Actually I think the adaptive suspension was available as an option last year and now it is jut standard.

The LR3 has everything the Land Cruiser has plus more in a shorter, more compact and easier to maneuver package for 10,000 to 15,000 dollars less. Just glancing over the specs the only thing the LR3 is missing are knee airbags which should be added next year since the other two Land Rover models got them this year. The LC has about 70 more horsepower but considering its engine is 1.3 liters larger I sure hope it would be more powerful. :P

nthe

"People on test drives always comment on how stable our cars feel compared to the Toyotas, Fords, etc. of the world."

yes, cause they have to find some kind of justification in their mind on why they are spending 4 times as much as the toyota. :P

mackabee

About 7k.

Mack

lrguy44

why they are spending 4 times as much as the toyota.

So now we are comparing a loaded LR2 with a 10k Toyota, or a well equipped LR3 with a $12,500 Toyota, or a Range Rover Sport with a $15-$16k Toyota or even a $90000 Range Rover Sport with a $22,500 Toyota. What have you been smoking? :confuse:

nthe

"What have you been smoking"

nothing......yet......

ok, so it was a bit exaggeration, but you get my meaning...

british_rover

7000 what?

perna

The profit margin on those LCs must be huge.

True, but they hold their value like nothing else. Even a Land Rover. :P

That's not to say I'm a huge fan of Toyotas, though. Reading Mac's puffing up his Camry SEs, I wonder if they fixed whatever piece of the exhaust system that looks like it's hanging about 2 inches above the road on every Camry made since 1992. I have no doubt it moves, but I also really dislike all the ground effects stuff they put on the SEs.

Personally, I'm eagerly awaiting to see what Nissan does with the '09/'10 Maxima before I make a decision to replace my beloved '03 Max SE. I'm hoping for a 350 hp AWD firebreathing monster that takes its cues from the Skyline. :shades:

jmonroe

7000 what?

FWIW, I'm back and believe it or not, that guys design was pretty good not cute at all. I think he knew I would be sitting in as a member on his design review.

Let me take this one Mack.

7000 HP. :P

jmonroe