Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Make Me a Better (Online) Car Salesman!
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Can you guess I used to be an English teacher?
Hmmm - so if I picked up the phone, said "Do you have a 2006 red Honda Accord, such and such features, what is the price?" you would in fact quote me a realistic, little or no hassle, sales price (other than MSRP) on the phone?
Or would you say "Why don't you come in and we'll talk about it?"
If it takes you 15 dealers to find the best price... then I would suggest looking in the mirror for blame rather than at the dealership. Something tells me these guys deal with us everyday and can see through us quicker than we think. If your being shady... leading him on... lying to him about your intentions and "dragging him through the mud"... isn't it fair that he gives you the same treatment? I mean... if its OK for you to lie.... be deciteful.... then why do you think its so wrong if he is the same to you? Point being... treat others how you want to be treated yourself.
To touch on the phone call. This is how I tend to develop a realtionship with someone before I go visit. True... everytime I call a dealership they always try and set the apoitment, refuse to talk about price... but then again... its their job. The salesman I found was very polite on the phone and was pretty straight forward and up front with me on the phone. He expalined to me that its not always about price... and more about weather or not I wanted to own that vehicle for the next 3 years. I hit him again with best price and he flat out told me its impossible for him to sell me a car over the phone. He told me if it was that easy... everyone would be driving a KIA... which I found funny and true. I acutally set soem time aside to see him and my perception was exactly what i expected. Straight up... honest and true with me the whole time.
i guess my point here is.... if you call a dealerhsip... they probably won't give you the best price and ask repeatdly for an apoitment. If they do give you their best price over the phone... his chances of selling you a car are 1 in 100. it's to easy to simply call someone else and shop around. So... use your phone calls to simply judge his personality and sincerity. See if he is honest and true with you.
If a buyer comes to our store, it happens frequently, and knows exactly what he/she wants and say's here's my one and only price at $500 over invoice. This is a 'no-brainer' write-it-up sale. It takes maybe 30 min.
Now how did this buyer get enough info and experience to know exactly what he/she wants is a question. Was it all on the internet with an occasional lunchtime demo on various vehicles? I dont care. This sale is $100 for 2 hours work tops. Now do this 3 times a day. Hey that's Toyota's future sales methodology ( see Scion ).
If I'm actually going to buy a vehicle live-in-person rather than over the internet I want to walk in and ask for the most experienced/successful salesperson there. Why? This person knows that the deal is a mini and it's just another unit toward a quantity bonus.
A greenpea is going to have to go through all the steps and try to negotiate you up to a more acceptable deal. In addition the greenpea is living and dying on this one sale. The more experienced one has maybe 20 or 30 or 40 other sales coming up that month.
I figured this was going to take a while, so I got up and headed down the street to Del Taco (a fast food place) to get something to eat. I got something to eat and looked at a few other cars at other dealers before coming back. When I came back Jim was in the office with the salesman and another person who turned out to be the sales lead guy. They talked about the price of the Impala, back and forth, blah blah blah. Anyway I didn’t need to be there so I walked around some more and came back a while later. Now they were talking about the Malibu. I guess there were incentives on it so the price that they could give was a lot less. Anyway more back and forth and they talked about a lot of other stuff. I couldn’t take it anymore so I got up again and walked down the street to look at cars on another dealership. I came back and there was another guy in the office talking to Jim. This guy was a big dark skinned guy who was kind of intense.
I went in and sat down. It had been a long time since we first came. They were (in my opinion) close to a deal on the Malibu. Finally the conversation went something like – “If we could get you this price would you buy the car”. And Jim agreed he would do that price.
After leaving us for a long time in the office they came back and said that they would do that deal. The sales manager guy reached out his hand to shake on the deal and Jim says “ I think I want a better deal”.
The manager was furious, he said that you (Jim) had agreed. Jim kind of smirked and said that he – get this- had his fingers crossed. At this point everyone kind of stood up and I went for yet another walk. As I came back the deal had gotten better (but not by much). Jim never agreed to buy the car and eventually they said – “well I guess we can’t do business then can we”. So we left
On the drive home I asked Jim why he didn’t take their offer. He just smiled and said – “OH – I just wanted to see how low they would go”
Actually I agree with that. I would never try to discuss price on the phone, it's pointless. I *would* expect a clear, straight-forward answer as to whether the dealership has the exact car I want, or not.
I've even been lied to about that; telling me you've got the car I want when you don't just seems like a stupid waste of everyone's time. And guarantees I will bad-mouth that particular dealer to friends and family.
Honestly, when it comes down to it, the car is more important than the salesperson. If I want a certain model, in a certain color with certain options, then that's what I look for. The salesperson is really secondary, although honesty and straight-dealing, once the car is found, are necessary to close the sale.
So is Jim going to go back and buy that Malibu, or not?
Be interesting to see if the sales guys call back with a better offer. I'm guessing not, but you never know.
Well that's probably true however Jim did find out what Malibu's were selling for. Maybe it was worth it to him.
I'm afraid that that's what it has come down to in price comparisons. That's how to buy cars - The Easy Way !
How many buyers know exactly what they want including the options and the full nine yards. They MIGHT know the model and they may have some ideas ... and all that might change the minute that they get to the dealership. I order vehicles for others all the time and I end up sending between 3-15 e-mails to clarify EXACTLY what they want ... and even THAT changes about a week after I order it from the factory.
I can understand the hesitence of dealers to hand out quotes that will be used against them at a later date.
And that doesn't even address financing, trade-ins and all the other events that happen at a later date.
A price that you would no doubt shop...right?
He committed to buy a car at a certain price and then ground for more?
" Had his fingers crossed" ??
Reminds me of elementry school!
Price offered = valued received and a transaction was done.
Way too much insecurity is involved these days in auto buying. The most personally secure people are by far the easiest to work with. They often get the best prices because they know how to work within the system. Snakeweasel might have a great in with an owner or Manager and he knows that he will be treated well. If someone haggled for hours like the banana above he might do better but is it worth it?
BTW the best customer to be is a F-o-t-O. Friend-of-the-Owner. We often just bring the vehicle to this client's home/office with all the paperwork filled out, vehicle cleaned, gassed up and make the delivery at the person's desk.
Legally speaking there is no commitment until a contract is signed.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I have come to learn it's not really the money as much for these people than the fear someone else, somewhere just may have paid a bit less.
Who cares? Life is short!
And, this has been mentioned many times in these forums by people in the business. The customers who grind for every last nickle and are not nice to deal with are the same people who never seem to be happy.
They give poor surveys, are demanding later in the Service Department and just generally don't seem happy with life in general. I'll see them years later at the cashier, demanding we accept a long expired service coupon etc.
Tough way to go through life....
He committed to buy a car at a certain price and then ground for more?
Well time was wasted, including mine, however in defence of Jim I'll just say that every car that I have ever purchased the dealership tried to renegotiate the price after the deal has been struck. That might have been the sales manager, the salesman, the finace guy. But everytime somebody is trying to change the deal.
So to your comment I'll just say, that's the way this business has become. If you don't ask for a discount you sure won't get it.
Actually, probably I wouldn't. If I had done my homework, knew exactly what I wanted, you confirmed that you had exactly the car I wanted, AND if your price was close to Edmunds' TMV or some other price resource guide I was using, I'd come in. And perhaps would haggle more in person, depending.
If your price on the phone seemed way out of line, then I'd just say thank you and move on. I would not haggle price, or anything else actually, over the phone.
What I'm curious about - this topic is about how to be a better on-line salesperson. You don't seem at all interested in developing the on-line *sales* part of your business; seems like you want to use the on-line stuff to generate leads, which you prefer to follow up on the phone. Is that accurate?
Thing is, for me personally, I don't know if we'd ever get to the phone part, because I want confirmation of all the substantial details on-line first. I want to know, primarily, if you have exactly the car I want in stock. If I can't get a straight answer to that on-line, I would not lift up the phone.
And if your web-site indeed says "get a quote," then I would expect a quote on-line.
For me, that's in large part because I'm hearing impaired. Using the phone to go round in circles about whether you do or don't have whatever I'm looking for, at the price I want to pay, is very frustrating (on both sides - people don't like to repeat themselves, which I sometimes need them to do if I haven't heard clearly the first time).
So for me, the on-line contact is a screening device. If the salesman answers my questions on-line, I will continue to move the process forward. If they immediately say "let's talk on the phone," I'll drop it and move on to someone else.
Seriously, I probably am the customer you'd lose, because I would not go to the phone as quickly as you'd want, and you would not respond to me on-line with the information that I'd want. Just two different communication preferences that would cancel each other out.
In other ( most ) cultures negotiating is part of the enjoyment of the whole process. As a matter of fact, and I'm sure others in the business will bear me out, certain buyers will only come back to you if you are willing to 'get into it' with them over several hours or so. Once you do that and seem to relish the process they will come back to you first all the time. Lot's and lot's of cultures are like this.
Anyone who has ever sold any bulk commodities or products, steel in my case, knows that a negotiation can take all day or even months. Visit a buyer whom you know has 5A1 D&B credit, in his pit of an office, and have him scream at you for 30 min while he tells you why your product is garbage and then have him throw you out!!!! and you refuse to budge. He smiles and says 'Good, let's discuss business'. Most business is done this way - even here.
If you dont want to negotiate then decide what price is comfortable for you and then stick with it. Hint: if no one accepts your price you might be low.
The Carmax, FitzMall version ... like LLBean, here is the inventory and here are the prices;
or..
'Come in and well find just the right vehicle and price for you'
Since this is all in it's infancy as far as auto buying is concerned the jury is out on how to do it best, sell the most units, satisfy the demands of as many buyers as possible and generate the most goodwill.
Your opinion?
That is assuming the prices are something reasonable, at a fixed percentage over invoice, minus whatever applicable rebates.
Saying "come in and we'll find just the right vehicle and price for you" sounds condescending to me, like all by own little self I couldn't possibly know what is the right vehicle and price for me.
No, I don't think the business has become that way, I think your friend has little character. I hope if he has kids he sets a better example. Sad.
As for your last sentence...If you were selling your lawnmower at a garage sale and you priced it for 50.00 hoping to get 35-40.00 and someone haded you a fifty would you take it or offer the buyer a discount?
Most buyers are not familiar with all the different options and models and makes so being a good guide is invaluable to the majority of buyers.
Via the Internet, other than the buyer stating 'I am an auto expert and know exactly what I want' from the sales side experience shows that most buyers don't know what they want. Some do for sure and it certainly does make the process easier.
This isn't what happened and your analogy doesn't represent the situation. Using your analogy, it would be as if I had offered $50 for the lawn mower, the seller agreed and then tried to charge me $55 cause it had some gas in it would be more like it.
Getting back to car shopping, I go car shopping and I negotiate in good faith. Still I keep my hand on my wallet just cause of who I am talkin' to.
You should do some learnin of some those good manners to the car dealerships down where I live. They musta not have a good momma to teach em' right.
But what you and your friend did was just unethical. You wasted several hours of four or five proffesional's time for no other reason then "just to see how low they would go."
How would you feel if I went into your office or small business and wasted four or five different employees time for half a day so that they got no other work done?
I asked if you were SELLING the lawnmower.
I know you did and it still isn't relevant to the discussion.
British_rover:
But what you and your friend did was just unethical. You wasted several hours of four or five proffesional's time for no other reason then "just to see how low they would go."
I had no part in this, I was strictly an observer.
But I'm sure that at some low price that may have been unreasonably low that a deal could have been struck. However In the end the deal just wasn't low enough for Jim.
As for wasting your time. The game is what it is. Jim's method (executed poorly by Jim) is really the only way to determine the going rate. If you don't like the rules of the game then maybe you should pick another.
Yeah they are for the most part a mini all the way but the people are just great to work with and it is quck so good volume. These same people are also great contacts and tend to be influence leaders in the community. One guy that I am working with right now buys two or three cars at a time so that is great volume even if they are all minis. While we were talking I mentioned that my wife was a Pro Librarian and was trying to get a job at a library a little closer to home. He goes well I sit on the board of directors of the blabh blah library just give me her resume and I will see what I can do.
Just such a cool easy to transaction. Another guy I sold a couple of cars to insisted that we test drive his new Ferrari before he would take delivery of the car. His philosophy, "hey I test drove your car while you were watching me now I should get to do the same." I mean come who is gonna argue with that.
I mean if Dealer B was a $1,000 more is it worth to pay a premium because you will be at his service department?
Or is this just an old wives tale and the service department and sales could really care less about one another???
This is my thought for the day.
All service shops in major franchised lines are in the business of offering you the best service. Service and sales are not related except in the GM's mind and in the owner's pocket. They really are two separate businesses under one roof.
Buy where you get the best value
Service where they take care of you best
Our service office is only across the showroom from my desk which is nice and really helps out communication.
The only other thing to consider is that if loaner cars are avaliable then for the most part service is going to give those cars primarily to the customers who bought cars from that dealership.
Like I said In earlier posts, My job now consists of more Internet sales, and I am not used to it. I like talking to people on the phone or in person. I got an Autotrader lead and the customer JC Rogers wanted our best price and I emailed him our best "Internet Only" price. Our asking price was $42995.00 and I gave him a price of $39000.00. He never emailed me back and he did not leave a phone#. So on Saturday, Jason Raggio comes in and asks for me and says a friend of a friend bought a car from me, and he was interested in our 2005 A6. We drove the car and he likes it and says he wants to make a deal on the car, and offers me $41,000 OTD, and then I kindly said I could do $41000.00 plus fees. He said he had to talk to his dad and go to lunch and he would be back in an hour. I check my email and Jason emails me and says that JC Rogers was an alias and that he wanted to know if he can still get the internet price I quoted him. ATTACHED THE EMAIL I SENT HIM. I was so pissed I called him and just for his dishonesty I didnt want to sell him a car. He apologized profusely and said that he drove from Houston and really wanted the car. I sold him the car and told him that he better not even ask for a nickel off when he came back in or the deal was off.
Now I know that no matter how I tell the story, some of you are going to say "Well why did'nt you give him $39000.00 also and you would'nt had that problem." If I sell an A4 to someone for $500 over invoice to one customer, I am going to still ask for Sticker on the next customer. Whether I get it or not it all depends. IF YOU DON'T ASK, YOU DON'T GET.
I would just tell the person in your request that you are hearing impaired and using the phone is difficult for you. If I got a request like that I would email the customer my AIM screen name and we could do the deal that way. Faster then wating for emails to back and forth and I have no problem typing 60 plus words a minute as long as people don't mind some typos.
He took advantage of the chaotic system at the dealership. Buyer emails internet dept then walks in and tries to get a better deal. Just like you said IF YOU DON'T ASK YOU DON'T GET.
I think you are prolly more mad at your dealerships system than this guy, I mean after all you were happy to unload at 39K the other day. *shrugs*
Grant it the alias is a little bit suspect but I almost view it as taking advantage of a flaw in the system.
Buyers themselves try to overthink the situation. Smart buyers 'know' that they will get the best price on the last day of the month/year as a store tries to close it's books.
Many have commented here about those coming in with reams of printouts and data sheets and never looking at them.
Rules to simplify the buying process ( whether internet or in-person )
do your homework, decide on a vehicle & options;
decide on a price for the vehicle you want;
get your financing in line;
decide on aftermarket items;
ask for a knowledgeable salesperson;
tell them that you are a buyer today at this store and your price is .......
This is no different from buying golf clubs, a shirt, sneakers or a watch.
It's amazing how simple it really is.
Off-topic to brit rover - my husband gave me a Nokia cell phone that works with a neck-loop. It works really well! MUCH, much better than my land-line phone. I love it. Don't know if your wife would be able to use such a thing but she might want to look into it. Make sure you buy one of the phones that works with the latest version of the neckloop that is powered off the phone's batteries, not off batteries in the loop itself.
Far as I know, Nokia is the only brand phone that has such a system.
(end off-topic, apologies to those not interested!)
Buying a car is sooooo easy, its people who make it difficult.
Spyder, your advice is pretty good, but why in the world do I need a knowledgable salesperson?
"This is no different from buying golf clubs"
Obviously you are not a serious golfer. Choosing a set of golf clubs is infinitely harder and infinitely more important than deciding which car to buy.
We're #1! We're #1! We're #1!
BTW, sold my first Dodge vehicle today! :shades:
DrFill
i was in a hurry to get up to Jiminy Peak before dark, so I somehow must have missed the big dirt pile.
in one of your other posts, i noticed you mentioned ferraris. one of my neighbors has some pictures from visiting a guy who has an unbelievable collection.
The knowledgeable salesperson is some internal advice based on the fact that if you've done all this you will be recognized as a real buyer and the more aware person will understand 'just write up the order and make sure everything is smoothly done'. Newbies have to be trained in all the steps so often it's awkward in getting things done smoothly. In addition the management wants to train the greenpeas how to go through all the steps to the sale properly so you will be subject to a back-and-forth and unnecessary negotiation where you will likely end up at your price anyway. Now you'll feel insulted and that they've wasted your time with unnecessary, hoohaa.
Let me go back to my post about F-o-t-O sales. Do you think the Owner calls in and says 'My best friend is coming over to buy a ..... Give him to a noob and run him around the post and annoy him to death?' No way. It's always to the person who has the best CSI's and knows how to make a buyer feel like a guest and a VIP.
Why shouldn't you also get that treatment? You can.
Not to worry, Spyder. After we make our offer, if the discussion lasts more than 10 minutes, as it did on our last three car purchases, we walk out. The sales manager then makes up his mind real quick.
A person can only insult you if you actually care what they say.
Not at all golic. I wish Toyota did the same thing. It's unbelievable the number of options and port installed options and accessories that can be added to their cars. I stopped trying to memorize every option, accessory, etc.. a long time ago.
Mackabee
:confuse:
Mackabee
No matter what segment, all cars sales people are just that, sales people. Maybe 1% are professionals that work with clients, just not the next sucker.
I meant, customer.
The pro's can tell you what to do Marty but my guess is her first offer is never gonna be below your initial, and if it is...well all the more reason to be happy.
I have been wondering myself if I should change my approach on the internet. Perhaps I shouldn't be asking for a quote, but making my offer. You know put your foot in the ground first and be in a better position to counter??? *bobblehead*
Why not take the Edmunds invoice and subtract some number say $500 - $1,000. I don't know, but worse case, if they accept..well you should be happy and did you leave money on the table? who knows but then how much could there be???
Do tell!
I guess my point is, I tried them all, in person, phone, and internet. I guess next time I'll take an ad out in the LA Times and ask for the best price on such and such a car with the options...etc.
I agree with an earlier post about edmunds price. I think it's a good place to start, but definitely end up BELOW TMV. It's like looking at KBB or Edmund's used car price and then going to the dealer expecting that price, then they lowball you by say $3000. That is how I think of buying cars now.
And that sales girl from Mckenna BMW? I hung up on her, since I figure that I've given her the most courtesy by going to her first, promising to contact her last to get the best deal from her, only to be victimized anyway. Of all the dealers in S.Cal I communicated with, I recommend internet guy in Glendale's Pacific BMW. He started emailing me at 7am! I felt he is very professional, quick response, and no BS. And no I didn't buy a car from him, as we are quite tramatized by Irvine BMW's schemes now.